Where is the Lawsuit for NJ refusal to recognize FFL03 License

[capt14k 2,052]

I am a little angry today. I picked up an antique Finnish Mosin and Beretta 1934 yesterday total transfer and NICS $60. An antique is not even a firearm in every state except NJ and Hawaii. Most states except the Communist Few I could have a C&R Handgun sent to my house with a FFL03 License, but not in NJ. Now $60 is cheap compared to many of the NJ FFL's, but it is still a lot more than $0. Why hasn't ANJRPC filed lawsuit for NJ's refusal to recognize Federal FFL03? Why doesn't Anthony talk about this on his Podcast? Because the foxes are guarding the henhouse. That is why. Until we vote the dealers out of the leadership positions, or form a new organization, the firearms laws in NJ will always suck, because dealers profit off of them.

 

 

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[Sevenshot 98]

I'm always blown away at NJ FFL fees. I think a few of the vendors on here are around $30, which isn't bad.

My FFL here in NC is $15. 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

1 hour ago, capt14k said:

I am a little angry today. I picked up an antique Finnish Mosin and Beretta 1934 yesterday total transfer and NICS $60. An antique is not even a firearm in every state except NJ and Hawaii. Most states except the Communist Few I could have a C&R Handgun sent to my house with a FFL03 License, but not in NJ. Now $60 is cheap compared to many of the NJ FFL's, but it is still a lot more than $0. Why hasn't ANJRPC filed lawsuit for He's refusal to recognize Federal FFL03? Why doesn't Anthony talk about this on his Podcast? Because the foxes are guarding the henhouse. That is why. Until we vote the dealers out of the leadership positions, or form a new organization, the firearms laws in NJ will always suck, because dealers profit off of them.
 
 
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Seriously?  I'm ashamed FOR you.  So much BUTTHURT & divisiveness.  If you want an answer from Anthony, WRITE TO HIM!  [email protected] .  

[capt14k 2,052]

Seriously?  I'm ashamed FOR you.  So much BUTTHURT & divisiveness.  If you want an answer from Anthony, WRITE TO HIM!  [email protected] .  

I have to be honest the lack of lawsuits has been depressing. These suits should have been filed for years now. At this point I've about resigned myself to the fact that escape is the only recourse. I will send Anthony a message and ask why it is not brought up. Maybe I missed the episode. If so my apologies.

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[raz-0 1,259]

You can bitch and moan that someone isn't suing someone for you so you don't have to, but first you might want to ask what grounds would you be suing? 

I don't see a lot of opportunity to litigate against a state imposing additional regulatory burden on something federally regulated. 

[capt14k 2,052]

You can bitch and moan that someone isn't suing someone for you so you don't have to, but first you might want to ask what grounds would you be suing? 
I don't see a lot of opportunity to litigate against a state imposing additional regulatory burden on something federally regulated. 

It's not just additional regulatory burden, but also a failure to recognize Federal license. Which causes excessive cost on lower income individuals in NJ vs other states. Not to mention the shall not be infringed part of the Second Amendment. I see multiple grounds. As far as bitching it is simple they don't have to file lawsuits, and I and others don't have to send in money that we expect to be used for lawsuits. So my so called bitching is just looking for an answer so I can make an informed decision.

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[GRIZ 3,369]

42 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

You can bitch and moan that someone isn't suing someone for you so you don't have to, but first you might want to ask what grounds would you be suing? 

I don't see a lot of opportunity to litigate against a state imposing additional regulatory burden on something federally regulated. 

Agreed.  It's a 10A issue that is on the side of the state.  One would need to come up with a valid argument that the NJ not recognizing C&R interferes with the 2A.

[capt14k 2,052]

Agreed.  It's a 10A issue that is on the side of the state.  One would need to come up with a valid argument that the NJ not recognizing C&R interferes with the 2A.

 

10A does not Trump 2A. It is sad that we need SCOTUS to clarify something so simple as "shall not be infringed".

 

Following the thinking that it is a 10A issue then states can also pass laws that limit freedom of speech, the press, and religion as well. They can not. Just as they can not regarding the right to keep and bear arms. SCOTUS has erroneously ruled in the past and treated the Second Amendment as a second class amendment when compared to the first. Hopefully this will change with lawsuits coming out of other states such as California.

 

 

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[GRIZ 3,369]

55 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 

10A does not Trump 2A. It is sad that we need SCOTUS to clarify something so simple as "shall not be infringed".


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I'm not saying that.  I'm saying how does NJ not recognizing C&R violate the 2A?  The only argument you've presented is its a financial burden for low income people.  One could make a better argument against carry permit fees imposed by most states. Or pistol permit fees. You haven't seen that go anywhere. You don't see many low income people with collections of firearms.

I don't agree with any of NJ's bs gun laws.  My point is you need a worthwhile argument for your issue.  How does NJ not recognizing C&R interfere with the 2A?  This interferes with a small group of people like you. This is the argument you need to make.  There are many more issues with NJ gun laws more worthy of litigation than this as they effect more people.

 

[capt14k 2,052]

I'm not saying that.  I'm saying how does NJ not recognizing C&R violate the 2A?  The only argument you've presented is its a financial burden for low income people.  One could make a better argument against carry permit fees imposed by most states. Or pistol permit fees. You haven't seen that go anywhere. You don't see many low income people with collections of firearms.

I don't agree with any of NJ's bs gun laws.  My point is you need a worthwhile argument for your issue.  How does NJ not recognizing C&R interfere with the 2A?  This interferes with a small group of people like you. This is the argument you need to make.  There are many more issues with NJ gun laws more worthy of litigation than this as they effect more people.

 

I agree there are many more arguments that can be made. I feel though we should bury the state in lawsuits.

 

As for C&R Argument can be made if not for the restrictive laws and refusal to recognize Federal license NJ is putting limits on ones ability to collect, especially those of lesser means. Lawyers for the other side would turn that into a racial issue.

 

Carry and Pistol Permit fees should also have lawsuits. Especially in NYC and Chicago.

 

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[capt14k 2,052]

Are there other federal licenses recognized by most states but not all? I'm just curious. I can't think of any.

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[Persona non grata 113]

I would guess that there is no lawsuit because ANJRPC, NRA, et al know that they need to pick their battles due to finite resources. 

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

21 minutes ago, Persona non grata said:

I would guess that there is no lawsuit because ANJRPC, NRA, et al know that they need to pick their battles due to finite resources. 

This makes sense to me. They're going to file lawsuits that impact the MOST people, not that impact a relatively small number (though I can certainly understand the frustration).  A case such as this is probably one that would need to be filed individually --- or maybe perhaps by a small group of collectors going in on it together? 

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 hour ago, capt14k said:

I agree there are many more arguments that can be made. I feel though we should bury the state in lawsuits.

 

As for C&R Argument can be made if not for the restrictive laws and refusal to recognize Federal license NJ is putting limits on ones ability to collect, especially those of lesser means. Lawyers for the other side would turn that into a racial issue.

 

Carry and Pistol Permit fees should also have lawsuits. Especially in NYC and Chicago.

 

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Bury the state in lawsuits? The state would just go hire more lawyers to defend them.  The state has bottomless funding to pay their legal expenses compared to most litigants.  Guess who pays for that?  Better to file lawsuits you have a strong argument for and good chance of winning.

I think you're out of touch with something.  You are aware conjuring up a reason and proving it are two much different things.  People with low incomes live from paycheck to paycheck.  Most have little, if any, disposable income.  If they do have some disposable it is more apt to be spent buying their kid a bike or going to Great Adventure for the day not start collecting C&Rs.  That goes for low income people of any race or ethnicity.

Do you know several people with low incomes who can testify they would start collecting C&Rs instead of paying off the credit card balance used to buy the kids toys for Christmas?

The 2A protects the right to keep and bear arms not collect them.

Money for lawsuits for carry permits, "assault weapons", magazine capacities, and other 2A issues is better spent.

[capt14k 2,052]

This makes sense to me. They're going to file lawsuits that impact the MOST people, not that impact a relatively small number (though I can certainly understand the frustration).  A case such as this is probably one that would need to be filed individually --- or maybe perhaps by a small group of collectors going in on it together? 

You are probably right. Yet the people making the decisions should realize many collectors spend a disproportionate amount on firearms and have more disposable income than many firearms owners. The lack of interest in collectors by these groups is a reason why myself and many other collectors won't give to the NRA and will continue to not give to organizations that have done little for us.

At this point I am out of suggestions. It seems most are happy with the status quo and raising money in $100 increments and holding onto the slim hope of one or two lawsuits. I will instead vote with my feet.


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[capt14k 2,052]

Bury the state in lawsuits? The state would just go hire more lawyers to defend them.  The state has bottomless funding to pay their legal expenses compared to most litigants.  Guess who pays for that?  Better to file lawsuits you have a strong argument for and good chance of winning.
I think you're out of touch with something.  You are aware conjuring up a reason and proving it are two much different things.  People with low incomes live from paycheck to paycheck.  Most have little, if any, disposable income.  If they do have some disposable it is more apt to be spent buying their kid a bike or going to Great Adventure for the day not start collecting C&Rs.  That goes for low income people of any race or ethnicity.
Do you know several people with low incomes who can testify they would start collecting C&Rs instead of paying off the credit card balance used to buy the kids toys for Christmas?
The 2A protects the right to keep and bear arms not collect them.
Money for lawsuits for carry permits, "assault weapons", magazine capacities, and other 2A issues is better spent.

I think you are thinking too small and that small thinking has us where we are at. The state is broke. If the state was hit from every angle they would have to say No Mas. The federal government gave into Scientology. I think the Feds have just a tad more funding than the state.


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[W2MC 1,699]

5 hours ago, Sevenshot said:

I'm always blown away at NJ FFL fees. I think a few of the vendors on here are around $30, which isn't bad.

My FFL here in NC is $15. 

Why is the Ben Franklin Bridge to Philly only $5, while the George Washington Bridge is $15?

NJ is an expensive state to start with; even moreso in northern NJ.

 

[10X 3,296]

56 minutes ago, Persona non grata said:

I would guess that there is no lawsuit because ANJRPC, NRA, et al know that they need to pick their battles due to finite resources. 

Exactly right

Individuals or groups of collectors are free to file their own lawsuits. 

[Tunaman 548]

11 minutes ago, W2MC said:

Why is the Ben Franklin Bridge to Philly only $5, while the George Washington Bridge is $15?

NJ is an expensive state to start with; even moreso in northern NJ.

 

Just be glad you dont live in staten Island and work in this shithole state...my boy Scott and his wife pay 30.00 a day just to cross it.

[capt14k 2,052]

Exactly right
Individuals or groups of collectors are free to file their own lawsuits. 

Yes we are, and also free not to give a dime to groups not interested in our interests.

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[GRIZ 3,369]

35 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 

I think you are thinking too small and that small thinking has us where we are at. The state is broke. If the state was hit from every angle they would have to say No Mas. The federal government gave into Scientology. I think the Feds have just a tad more funding than the state.


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Not thinking small.  Looking at the big picture.  Your desire for a lawsuit for C&R FFL being recognized would benefit a very small number of people.  You're thinking small.  Wanting to seek something that would only benefit a few. 

A lawsuit for carry permits would benefit many, many more and also have many more people willing to financially support it.

I'm not familiar with the Scientology cases.  Others win lawsuits against tye Federal government.  Details or a link would give credence to this example.  I do know there were a few cases they lost against the Federal government.

Yeah NJ is broke. They will keep raising taxes until they can't.  Then they'll cut funds from programs that don't produce Democrat voters.  NJ liberals will usually find money somewhere to defend their causes.

[capt14k 2,052]

Not thinking small.  Looking at the big picture.  Your desire for a lawsuit for C&R FFL being recognized would benefit a very small number of people.  You're thinking small.  Wanting to seek something that would only benefit a few. 
A lawsuit for carry permits would benefit many, many more and also have many more people willing to financially support it.
I'm not familiar with the Scientology cases.  Others win lawsuits against tye Federal government.  Details or a link would give credence to this example.  I do know there were a few cases they lost against the Federal government.
Yeah NJ is broke. They will keep raising taxes until they can't.  Then they'll cut funds from programs that don't produce Democrat voters.  NJ liberals will usually find money somewhere to defend their causes.

I am all for CCW lawsuits and every other type of lawsuit. Including personal suits and even frivolous suits just to force the state to defend. You seem to be trying to change my words to I only care about C&R lawsuit. That is not the case. To the contrary I want more lawsuits. Maybe if I see them happening I will make more donations. For now one lawsuit does not excite me.

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[1563621 388]

Last I heard there were 187 C&Rs in this shithole, I am one of them.

Last time the ATF stopped by, he asked whether I really wanted to renew? I am giving it one more go round!

[capt14k 2,052]

Last I heard there were 187 C&Rs in this shithole, I am one of them.
Last time the ATF stopped by, he asked whether I really wanted to renew? I am giving it one more go round!

So I guess we aren't as small of a group as others seem to believe. Especially if per collector spend is factored in as a percentage of overall spending. I haven't bothered to get mine because the law is too unclear regarding purchases while out of state. My understanding is longguns are ok but handguns are not.

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[voyager9 3,434]

Keep in mind that SCOTUS refuses to hear the CA FFL case. Essentially deciding through omission that firearm dealers are not protected by 2A. 

[capt14k 2,052]

Keep in mind that SCOTUS refuses to hear the CA FFL case. Essentially deciding through omission that firearm dealers are not protected by 2A. 

SCOTUS won't hear 2A case til Kennedy is replaced.

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[mossburger 406]

Unfortunately, you answered your own question.

8 hours ago, capt14k said:

 the foxes are guarding the henhouse. That is why. Until we vote the dealers out of the leadership positions, or form a new organization, the firearms laws in NJ will always suck, because dealers profit off of them.

 

 

 

 

[mossburger 406]

Just want to add.

The NJ FID process of sending letters to someone's job is blatant intimidation and prevents tens of thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands, from exercising their rights because it would result in professional damage to their career. NJ is full of massive corporations HQs and by extension their employees, a countless many whom are affected by this. 

If groups can get abortion legalized under the auspices of privacy, why has no group ever filed such a suit in NJ over the FID letters?

But I'm supposed to hold out hope and fork over donations so I stay at 15rds instead of 10? 

Capt14k is right. If it doesn't benefit dealers then none of the "gun rights" organizations in NJ give a crap. And guess what, dealers LOVE a priveliged position that locks in their customer base and gives them more opportunities to sell and charge more.

[capt14k 2,052]

Just want to add.
The NJ FID process of sending letters to someone's job is blatant intimidation and prevents tens of thousands of people from exercising their rights because it would result in professional damage to their career. NJ is full ofassive corporations and by extension their employees, a countless many whom are affected by this. 
If groups can get abortion legalized under the auspices of privacy, why has no group ever filed such a suit in NJ over the FID letters?
But I'm supposed to hold out hope and fork over donations so I stay at 15rds instead of 10?
Capt14k is right. If it doesn't benefit dealers then none of the "gun rights" organizations in NJ give a crap. And guess what, dealers LOVE a priveliged position that locks in their customer base and gives them more opportunities to sell and charge more.

Another excellent lawsuit that has never been filed.


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[1563621 388]

The process of having to get a PP should be the basis for a lawsuit!