Where is the Lawsuit for NJ refusal to recognize FFL03 License

[mossburger 406]

1 minute ago, 1563621 said:

The process of having to get a PP should be the basis for a lawsuit!

That too, actually. Licenses and background checks hold up in court, but letters needing to be sent to neighbors and relatives is also a form of intimidation and not by any means a scientific measure or one that follows due process. At best it is archaic and ineffective, at worst it is intimidating and discriminatory. 

 

[1563621 388]

21 minutes ago, mossburger said:

That too, actually. Licenses and background checks hold up in court, but letters needing to be sent to neighbors and relatives is also a form of intimidation and not by any means a scientific measure or one that follows due process. At best it is archaic and ineffective, at worst it is intimidating and discriminatory. 

 

I am not disputing a license or background check. The PP itself should be fought! My god, I have been thru 500 background checks, at least! Then the 1 every 30! Really, enough is enough! If I passed background checks for the last 25 years.and have a FFL, even though it is a C&R, Why the fuck do I have to get a PP for every handgun?

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 hour ago, capt14k said:

I am all for CCW lawsuits and every other type of lawsuit. Including personal suits and even frivolous suits just to force the state to defend. You seem to be trying to change my words to I only care about C&R lawsuit. That is not the case. To the contrary I want more lawsuits. Maybe if I see them happening I will make more donations. For now one lawsuit does not excite me.

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I'm not changing your words. Just saying where effort and money areceived better spent.  Filing a successful C&R lawsuit would benefit 187 people (using the figure posted).  Yes there would be a few thousand that would might get them if successful.  If you get all the C&R holders in NJ to contribute $1000 to the cause you'll have enough to get started.  People generally don't want to contribute to a lawsuit that doesn't effect them.

A successful CCW lawsuit would benefit a lot more people.  If 10% of the gun owners in NJ (and I would guess the percentage higher) that would be 100,000 getting a CCW. That would also reduce crime benefiting even those that don't get a CCW.  The state would take in $5,000,000 at $50 a CCW.  Even with poor management prevalent in NJ State Government that would still give the state a few million dollars they didn't have before. 

Frivolous lawsuits are the last thing I thought you would ever be advocating.  They only accomplish wasting assets and money on both sides.  The only winner there is the lawyer who filed the lawsuit and the lawyer hired by the government to defend it.

Any battle, military or legal, has to be fought with the minimum assets needed to be successful.  

I've already said I think most of NJ's gun laws are stupid.  Pursuing a lawsuit for NJ to recognize C&R is a waste of money at this point.  The assets and money are needed to fight for more important things.

[capt14k 2,052]

I'm not changing your words. Just saying where effort and money areceived better spent.  Filing a successful C&R lawsuit would benefit 187 people (using the figure posted).  Yes there would be a few thousand that would might get them if successful.  If you get all the C&R holders in NJ to contribute $1000 to the cause you'll have enough to get started.  People generally don't want to contribute to a lawsuit that doesn't effect them.
A successful CCW lawsuit would benefit a lot more people.  If 10% of the gun owners in NJ (and I would guess the percentage higher) that would be 100,000 getting a CCW. That would also reduce crime benefiting even those that don't get a CCW.  The state would take in $5,000,000 at $50 a CCW.  Even with poor management prevalent in NJ State Government that would still give the state a few million dollars they didn't have before. 
Frivolous lawsuits are the last thing I thought you would ever be advocating.  They only accomplish wasting assets and money on both sides.  The only winner there is the lawyer who filed the lawsuit and the lawyer hired by the government to defend it.
Any battle, military or legal, has to be fought with the minimum assets needed to be successful.  
I've already said I think most of NJ's gun laws are stupid.  Pursuing a lawsuit for NJ to recognize C&R is a waste of money at this point.  The assets and money are needed to fight for more important things.

That is the problem with raising money $50-100 or even $1,000 at a time. We need big donors to attack from all fronts. No one even wants to go after the big donors, and yes any lawsuit in this case forces the state to defend. I am all for burying someone in lawsuits if it is part of a means to an end. We need to go after them personally. File suits against every police chief that has allowed constant delays for subsequent handgun permits. The one suit filed was in regards to initial FPID, so it has not been decided.

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[WP22 1,558]

I guess we care the most about what affects us personally. This is not a criticism of you but of myself. I want to make that very clear.

That being said, are we really supposed to get all rilled up over 187 C&R licenses in the state?

Of all the offenses committed against the NJ gun owners that's where the scarce recourses -and let's be honest, NJ gun owners are as cheap ass as they come - should be spent?

Do you know what I find egregious and where the money should be spent? OGAM, that's where, and on the whole P2P racket, and the evil feature game, the magazine capacity. W suffer all these affronts just to have a gun at home and to take to the range, pissing our pants on the way there and dying of hypoglycemia on the way home lest we make an unreasonable deviation. And I didn't even touch the whole CCW.

The fact is we don't have big donors. Who are the Soros, the Ford foundation, the Styre, the Hollywood celebrities, the corporations of the gun rights that can write multimillion dollar checks on a dime? 

Where are the ACLU, the southern poverty center, and the other myriad of left wing organizations  with lawsuits ready to be filled?

We don't have any of that. We don't have the structure, the organization and our roladex is pretty thin. And the few wealthy individuals and organizations willing and able to help won't. They won't help because once they are found out the left wing terrorists will target them, and their families, and their livelihoods and everyone else that ever were In contact with them, and the death and rape threats will commence.

So we are left with the NRA taking all the arrows, small statewide organizations, and us donating 5,10,20 dollars at the time.

 

 

 

[capt14k 2,052]

We have the Koch Brothers and Sandy Adelson. There are other untapped resources out there as well.

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[mossburger 406]

1 hour ago, 1563621 said:

I am not disputing a license or background check. The PP itself should be fought! My god, I have been thru 500 background checks, at least! Then the 1 every 30! Really, enough is enough! If I passed background checks for the last 25 years.and have a FFL, even though it is a C&R, Why the fuck do I have to get a PP for every handgun?

Oh I completely agree with you. 

[WP22 1,558]

The Koch brothers are so toxic that a donation of 100M dollars to the NY Presbyteran hospital to build a new wing drew protests by the NAACP-that's expected- by the NY nurses association(??)a d by the SEIU. And this is not an isolated case either.

 

 

 

 

 

[capt14k 2,052]

I am not disputing a license or background check. The PP itself should be fought! My god, I have been thru 500 background checks, at least! Then the 1 every 30! Really, enough is enough! If I passed background checks for the last 25 years.and have a FFL, even though it is a C&R, Why the fuck do I have to get a PP for every handgun?

You are 100% correct. I've been though just a 1/3 that you have but at this point does it really matter if I buy another handgun or rifle?

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The Koch brothers are so toxic that a donation of 100M dollars to the NY Presbyteran hospital to build a new wing drew protests by the NAACP-that's expected- by the NY nurses association(??)a d by the SEIU. And this is not an isolated case either.
 
 
 
 
 

Even better. They have plenty of extra money to donate if these morons aren't accepting their money.

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[cmarcell 6]

I guess we care the most about what affects us personally. This is not a criticism of you but of myself. I want to make that very clear.
That being said, are we really supposed to get all rilled up over 187 C&R licenses in the state?
 

There is only 187 cause what advantage does it give you here? If they honored it there would be thousands.



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[capt14k 2,052]

There is only 187 cause what advantage does it give you here? If they honored it there would be thousands.



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Thank you. These guys seem to think us collectors are a small subset of firearms owners. Membership of C&R Forums says otherwise.

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[10X 3,296]

8 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Thank you. These guys seem to think us collectors are a small subset of firearms owners. Membership of C&R Forums says otherwise.

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Then the members should have no trouble funding the lawsuit.

Seriously, if it's important to you, make it happen.  Lamenting that no one else is doing it for you, and that no one else is paying for it, isn't going to bring about change.  

[capt14k 2,052]

Then the members should have no trouble funding the lawsuit.
Seriously, if it's important to you, make it happen.  Lamenting that no one else is doing it for you, and that no one else is paying for it, isn't going to bring about change.  

No I'm done. I offered to try and fund raise with large donors. I made calls and sent emails. Most went unanswered or I got a form response. I have thrown out ideas. My last response was to someone else, not yourself. Don't like it don't read it. I will do the same. My efforts are going to be focused on myself and getting the hell out.

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[cmarcell 6]

Disclaimer- I'm what you would consider a non participant. I don't go to rallies, I refuse to donate money to the nra or local orgs, etc.
I'm a lone collector that keeps to himself as far as the gun community goes. From outside the box looking in I tend to agree with cap. Imo the leadership in this state is stale. It just seems like very little is done and people that reach out even are ignored. If you complain about it you will get barked at. Yes for people like myself to complain about it and have no skin in the game is also a big problem but it's us which imo are the majority of gun owners in the state that you need to fund etc. It's a bad problem that we have and no one has had any great answers for it.
The 03 ffl is a funny thing. Not many here think much of it but us in the state that would use a c&r probably own a lot more firearms than the rest. We don't buy one mosin we dive into all the different variants of them which is a lot. Collect mausers ? Lol yoiu get the point. Now we have to pay on 01 a fee every time and up here that going rate is $50 for a single transfer! I feel your pain and frustration capt!

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[capt14k 2,052]

Disclaimer- I'm what you would consider a non participant. I don't go to rallies, I refuse to donate money to the nra or local orgs, etc.
I'm a lone collector that keeps to himself as far as the gun community goes. From outside the box looking in I tend to agree with cap. Imo the leadership in this state is stale. It just seems like very little is done and people that reach out even are ignored. If you complain about it you will get barked at. Yes for people like myself to complain about it and have no skin in the game is also a big problem but it's us which imo are the majority of gun owners in the state that you need to fund etc. It's a bad problem that we have and no one has had any great answers for it.
The 03 ffl is a funny thing. Not many here think much of it but us in the state that would use a c&r probably own a lot more firearms than the rest. We don't buy one mosin we dive into all the different variants of them which is a lot. Collect mausers ? Lol yoiu get the point. Now we have to pay on 01 a fee every time and up here that going rate is $50 for a single transfer! I feel your pain and frustration capt!

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Exactly my point. Thank you for elaborating on the stale leadership. They have their way that isn't working, and suggestions are taken and ignored or refuted. I have donated funds in the past and most recently to Mark Cheeseman's lawsuit. While a couple of the higher ups from ANJRPC donated as well, only Rosie with CNJFO mentions the "other" lawsuit. Maybe there is a grand plan in place for lawsuits out the wazoo, but I have a bad feeling there will be another rally before another lawsuit. I know lawsuits can't be filed until bills become law, but there are plenty of lawsuits that can be filed based on existing law. Yes I am annoyed by the thousands I have spent on C&R Transfers. I'm even more aggravated by the hundreds I've spent on having.an antique transferred.

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[W2MC 1,699]

3 hours ago, cmarcell said:

Disclaimer- I'm what you would consider a non participant. I don't go to rallies, I refuse to donate money to the nra or local orgs, etc.
I'm a lone collector that keeps to himself as far as the gun community goes. From outside the box looking in I tend to agree with cap. Imo the leadership in this state is stale. It just seems like very little is done and people that reach out even are ignored. If you complain about it you will get barked at. Yes for people like myself to complain about it and have no skin in the game is also a big problem but it's us which imo are the majority of gun owners in the state that you need to fund etc. It's a bad problem that we have and no one has had any great answers for it.
The 03 ffl is a funny thing. Not many here think much of it but us in the state that would use a c&r probably own a lot more firearms than the rest. We don't buy one mosin we dive into all the different variants of them which is a lot. Collect mausers ? Lol yoiu get the point. Now we have to pay on 01 a fee every time and up here that going rate is $50 for a single transfer! I feel your pain and frustration capt!

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Once upon a time I had an 03 FFL too, and I understand your gripes there.  I am, however, somewhat confused by your comments on leadership.  You state that you're a non-participant and decline to donate; you're a lone collector that keeps to yourself and on the outside looking in.

As an avowed non-participant, how would you know if the leadership is "stale" or not?  By your very definition, you have essentially no interaction with them.

 

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

6 hours ago, capt14k said:

No I'm done. I offered to try and fund raise with large donors. I made calls and sent emails. Most went unanswered or I got a form response. I have thrown out ideas. .... My efforts are going to be focused on myself and getting the hell out.

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I'm going to throw this out for your consideration... some of these groups have felt attacked in recent years, not ONLY by anti-2A folks but even by other presumably pro-2A individuals and groups. So, I can only imagine that's made them a bit leery...that's a shame, but it's also perfectly understandable IMO.  So, unless these groups that you approached really know you (like you've had a long history of volunteering for them in other less sensitive roles), you're really just a stranger to them and that means "risk". What if you're a hothead and you piss off a prospective donor? What if you don't like the way the org is doing something, and you blab about it to the press? or on the Internet? I'm not saying you personally would do any of those things... but how would they know that? They're bound to harbor those doubts about any virtual stranger!  

As someone who once served on the board of a non-profit, I know I personally wouldn't just hand over big donor fundraising to someone I didn't trust implicitly. It's too sensitive a role. I know you're frustrated right now with the situation... I get it, I really do. But, I think (in your frustration) you're not considering other perspectives. 

[capt14k 2,052]

I'm going to throw this out for your consideration... some of these groups have felt attacked in recent years, not ONLY by anti-2A folks but even by other presumably pro-2A individuals and groups. So, I can only imagine that's made them a bit leery...that's a shame, but it's also perfectly understandable IMO.  So, unless these groups that you approached really know you (like you've had a long history of volunteering for them in other less sensitive roles), you're really just a stranger to them and that means "risk". What if you're a hothead and you piss off a prospective donor? What if you don't like the way the org is doing something, and you blab about it to the press? or on the Internet? I'm not saying you personally would do any of those things... but how would they know that? They're bound to harbor those doubts about any virtual stranger!   As someone who once served on the board of a non-profit, I know I personally wouldn't just hand over big donor fundraising to someone I didn't trust implicitly. It's too sensitive a role. I know you're frustrated right now with the situation... I get it, I really do. But, I think (in your frustration) you're not considering other perspectives.      

 

  

 

Fair enough. Why haven't they been going after the big money donors? Why not put their own on it? Yes I can say with relative certainty they have not gone after the real money because if they did there would be plenty for lawsuits, and not talk of how we have to use our funds wisely.   

 

 

Any non profit that has those who profit greatly I always question motives. This does not include CNJFO. However it does include ANJRPC. Scott Bach is making a living off of them. I showed this before through their 990 filings. Those in leadership positions are dealers. They are making money off the Unconstitutional Laws of this state. Maybe that is why nothing was done during the 8 years of a GOP governor. How about when Whitman was governor and controlled the legislature? We lost ground then too. I know at least one ANJRPC board member was involved back then as well.

 

 

We only maintained the status quo because of Chritie's national ambitions. In reality though Christie's first couple years we did lose ground. It never should have happened, especially if people were manning their posts. Christie's AG should not have been able to stop CMP shipments to American Citizens Homes with zero pushback from the group's that are supposed to be representing our interests.

 

 

Can anyone name a single win we had in NJ in the last 8 years? NH does not count, nor do Christie's vetos. I will gladly retract and apologize as soon as I see the lawsuits being filed. Until then I see it as more of the same old same old. Which has led to my decision to leave rather than fight, and I was all for fighting just a few months ago. From the looks of the number leaving I am not the only one who came to this decision.

 

 

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[cmarcell 6]

 

 

 

 

Once upon a time I had an 03 FFL too, and I understand your gripes there.  I am, however, somewhat confused by your comments on leadership.  You state that you're a non-participant and decline to donate; you're a lone collector that keeps to yourself and on the outside looking in. As an avowed non-participant, how would you know if the leadership is "stale" or not?  By your very definition, you have essentially no interaction with them.

 

0 0

 

I should have clarified sorry. I very much pay attention to what goes on here in the state. I'm a member of a range that makes you part of the anjrpc so I guess I contribute whatever to them through membership dues. From that I get their news letters and e-mails, and I cruise here and read all the discussions. Been a lurker for awhile before i joined.

The keeping to myself part was meant to say I have no ties to anyone in any of these orgs or friends etc to anyone in these orgs. I sometimes find here on the forums that if you are in opposition to the way they are running things SOME of the ones barking back are some how tied to some leadership. I'm just trying to describe where my point of view comes from.

 

 

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[capt14k 2,052]

One last note on the topic. Maybe if ANJRPC showed they gave two hoots about the interests of collectors, maybe more collectors would be inclined to donate funds. Not once did I see any mention from them regarding how the AWB would affect collectors. Only CNJFO posted something I wrote about it. I didn't even see a statement from ANJRPC, because Rosie did post what I wrote and helped add info to it, I will make a donation right now to CNJFO. See how that works ANJRPC.


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[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

27 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 Fair enough. Why haven't they been going after the big money donors? Why not put their own on it? Yes I can say with relative certainty they have not gone after the real money because if they did there would be plenty for lawsuits, and not talk of how we have to use our funds wisely.

Any non profit that has those who profit greatly I always question motives. This does not include CNJFO. However it does include ANJRPC. Scott Bach is making a living off of them. I showed this before through their 990 filings. Those in leadership positions are dealers. They are making money off the Unconstitutional Laws of this state. Maybe that is why nothing was done for 8 years.

We only maintained the status quo because of Chritie's national ambitions. In reality though Christie's first couple years we did lose ground. It never should have happened, especially if people were manning their posts. Christie's AG should not have been able to stop CMP shipments to American Citizens Homes with zero pushback from the group's that are supposed to be representing our interests.

Can anyone name a single win we had in NJ in the last 8 years? NH does not count, nor do Christie's vetos.

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Is it that they're not going after big donors?... or trying, but not succeeding?... and if they're trying and failing, is it because the other 49 states' groups - and the national orgs - are all trying to tap the same donors you've mentioned? Or because the effort isn't as effective as it could be? I don't know.  But nor do I want to make any assumptions. We all tend to do too much of that.

As for ANJRPC, I believe they have 1 paid member, Scott Bach, true? I haven't personally spoken with Scott, but I happen to know he gives his number out freely to reporters, he takes phone interviews at all hours... attends various hearings, meetings, etc on weekdays and weekends.... so from the little I've been able to deduce about his schedule, he's certainly seems to be investing a lot of time, probably to the deficit of his own family life. As for the interviews that I've seen him give, my assessment was that he was succinct, nimble and on-point... and the fact that he was both a former LEO and an attorney only added to his credibility. All in all, if someone was going to be "paid" for that one leadership role, I think that org could do far, far worse. Am I saying everything has been golden in NJ? Of course not. I'm just acknowledging that this is undoubtedly one of the most difficult states in the U.S. to make any pro-2A headway in. And again, I've never met Bach... I'm just speaking as an outside observer... and probably drawing on my communications background too. (Interviews are much harder than they look!).

I will say that I'm glad ANJRPC is playing a role in the CA lawsuit, I'm delighted they filed the NJ CCW lawsuit, pleased to see them collaborating with CNJFO... and I fully expect there'll be more lawsuits coming. In the meantime, I just pray a couple of SCOTUS folks "retire". 

[capt14k 2,052]

Is it that they're not going after big donors?... or trying, but not succeeding?... and if they're trying and failing, is it because the other 49 states groups - and the national orgs - are all trying to tap the same donors you've mentioned? Or because the effort isn't as effective as it could be? I don't know.  But nor do I want to make any assumptions. We all tend to do too much of that. As for ANJRPC, I believe they have 1 paid member, Scott Bach, true? I haven't personally spoken with Scott, but I happen to know he gives his number out freely to reporters, he takes phone interviews at all hours... attends various hearings, meetings, etc on weekday sand weekends.... so from the little I've been able to deduce about his schedule, he's certainly seems to be investing a lot of time, probably to the deficit of his own family life. As for the interview that I've seen him give, my assessment was that he was succinct, nimble and on-point... and the fact that he was both a LEO and an attorney only added to his credibility. All in all, if someone was going to be "paid" for that one leadership role, I think that org could do far, far worse. Am I saying everything has been golden in NJ? Of course not. I'm just acknowledging that this is undoubtedly one of the most difficult states in the U.S. to make any pro-2A headway in. And again, I've never met Bach... I'm just speaking as an outside observer... and probably drawing on my communications background too. (Interviews are much harder than they look!).

I will say that I'm glad ANJRPC is playing a role in the CA lawsuit, I'm delighted they filed the NJ CCW lawsuit, pleased to see them collaborating with CNJFO... and I fully expect there'll be more lawsuits coming. In the meantime, I just pray a couple of SCOTUS folks "retire". [emoji4]

 

 

Lawsuits need to be now so they are ready for the SCOTUS level upon the confirmation of Kennedy's successor and hopefully Ginsburg's as well.

 

 

For half a million a year I would expect someone to be able to give an interview.

 

 

I am still waiting to hear about the wins during the 8 years of a GOP governor, and why there wasn't a strong pushback regarding Christie's AG putting a Kabosh on CMP shipments.

 

 

Koch Brothers can't give away money right now. A large donation from them would or at least should be plastered all over ANJRPC.

 

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[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

Eh, I'm not here to argue, and I absolutely will state that I don't know the nuances of the collector's issues. So, I can't speak to that!

But, I can understand why their strategy was apparently geared to working with the relatively 2A-neutral Christie...  but filing a lawsuit against the current vehemently anti-2A Gov/administration (...particularly with Trump in office, Gorsuch appointed, perhaps more SCOTUS changes coming, etc.)  None of that was an unreasonable strategy in my mind. We may just disagree on that!

[JT Custom Guns 956]

Would it not just be easier for an  un-happy class 3 to reclassify as a Class 1 and 

be done with?

[GRIZ 3,369]

40 minutes ago, capt14k said:

  

 

Fair enough. Why haven't they been going after the big money donors? Why not put their own on it? Yes I can say with relative certainty they have not gone after the real money because if they did there would be plenty for lawsuits, and not talk of how we have to use our funds wisely.   

There lies the downside of your argument.  Why would any big buck donor provide funding for frivolous lawsuits you suggested earlier in this thread.  They would want to see their money spent wisely.

Looking for a bottomless pit of money is what the Democrats do when they think taxes.

[capt14k 2,052]

There lies the downside of your argument.  Why would any big buck donor provide funding for frivolous lawsuits you suggested earlier in this thread.  They would want to see their money spent wisely.

Looking for a bottomless pit of money is what the Democrats do when they think taxes.

 

Because the frivolous lawsuits are just one part of the strategy. Why is this so hard for you to understand. It is to stretch their sources thin so we can hammer them with the other suits.

 

 

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Eh, I'm not here to argue, and I absolutely will state that I don't know the nuances of the collector's issues. So, I can't speak to that!

But, I can understand why their strategy was apparently geared to working with the relatively 2A-neutral Christie...  but filing a lawsuit against the current vehemently anti-2A Gov/administration (...particularly with Trump in office, Gorsuch appointed, perhaps more SCOTUS changes coming, etc.)  None of that was an unreasonable strategy in my mind. We may just disagree on that!

 

Then where are the other suits? Why did we lose ground with GOP trifecta during Whitman?

 

 

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[GRIZ 3,369]

4 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 

Because the frivolous lawsuits are just one part of the strategy. Why is this so hard for you to understand. It is to stretch their sources thin so we can hammer them with the other suits.

 

 

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Then where are the other suits? Why did we lose ground with GOP trifecta during Whitman?

 

 

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You really think you can get someone to put up big bucks when a good portion of it will be spent getting no where?

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

[capt14k 2,052]

You really think you can get someone to put up big bucks when a good portion of it will be spent getting no where? Why is that so hard for you to understand?  

 

When did I post proportions up. Filing suits does not cost much. However it forces the other side to answer. Not all these suits would be frivolous. In fact a small portion would, the others would be hail Mary's, and the main would be very winnable based on the Constitution.   

 

 

Suing every LEO personally who ever infringed on a citizens second amendment right would be part of the strategy and maybe a hail Mary but certainly winnable. Same goes for suing every legislator personally who voted to infringe on our 2A Rights. Maybe even a collusion suit between them as well.

 

 

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[Rob0115 1,105]

Gun for hire does member transfers for 20 bucks.  In FL 1 gun is 15, two is 20 and then 5 bucks for each after.   I’ve become such a good customer I pay the 7 dollar NIcS and 0 for transfers. 

[capt14k 2,052]

The irony just hit me. Of those that posted C&R and collectors are too small of a group to care about their concerns, how many of you cry about the FUUDS not giving a damn about your concerns (ARs, 30 round mags, etc)? Everyone looking out for themselves is why nothing changes and nothing will.


Personally I care about all 2A infringements, even though things like mag limits, pistol grips, adjustable stocks, and flashhiders only affect less than 5% of what I own. However I am smart enough to realize a fractured group, that is outnumbered to begin, with will never win.

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