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Legal Status of Non-NFA Firearm AR Build?

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I feel like this thread needs to close, and then Jack or PK90 start a new, closed, thread. All it has is the letter from NJSP and the 3 or 4 points of what this non-NFA firearm needs to consist of to be legal in NJ. Thats it. People can take it for what they want. 

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32 minutes ago, shooter28 said:

I feel like this thread needs to close, and then Jack or PK90 start a new, closed, thread. All it has is the letter from NJSP and the 3 or 4 points of what this non-NFA firearm needs to consist of to be legal in NJ. Thats it. People can take it for what they want. 

We need a @vladtepes sticky guide. 

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This is bananas.

A couple people in this thread know what they are talking about. Almost everyone else is trying to find loopholes in the loopholes based on conjecture, opinion, and personal wishes.

BLUF: There are a couple of guiding documents from NJSP and ATF that are posted here in this very thread. They spell out how this whole thing works in our state and define what is, and is not, acceptable when dealing with this “Firearm”. It doesn’t matter if you agree with the guidance handed down from on high. It doesn’t matter what conclusion you reached “logically”. Currently, all that matters is these documents tell you what you can do to stay within the currently accepted guidelines of a specifically configured gun to be considered a “Firearm” and not a SBR, pistol, or AOW while remaining legal in the state of N.J.

This is why we can’t have nice things.

Also, remind me to never rob a bank with some of you guys.

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5 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

This is bananas.

A couple people in this thread know what they are talking about. Almost everyone else is trying to find loopholes in the loopholes based conjecture, opinion, and personal wishes.

BLUF: There are a couple of guiding documents from NJSP and ATF that are posted here in this very thread. They spell out how this whole thing works in our state and define what is, and is not, acceptable when dealing with this “Firearm”. It doesn’t matter if you agree with the guidance handed down from on high. It doesn’t matter what conclusion you reached “logically”. Currently, all that matters is these documents tell you 

This is why we can’t have nice things.

Also, remind me to never rob a bank with some of you guys.

This won't last long either. New laws to come banning them.

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2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

This is bananas.

A couple people in this thread know what they are talking about. Almost everyone else is trying to find loopholes in the loopholes based conjecture, opinion, and personal wishes.

BLUF: There are a couple of guiding documents from NJSP and ATF that are posted here in this very thread. They spell out how this whole thing works in our state and define what is, and is not, acceptable when dealing with this “Firearm”. It doesn’t matter if you agree with the guidance handed down from on high. It doesn’t matter what conclusion you reached “logically”. Currently, all that matters is these documents tell you 

This is why we can’t have nice things.

Also, remind me to never rob a bank with some of you guys.

robbing a bank was a great line, literally laughed out loud while on a conference call!  had mute on luckily

 

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59 minutes ago, RUTGERS95 said:

robbing a bank was a great line, literally laughed out loud while on a conference call!  had mute on luckily

Seriously, they’ll probably send the NJSP an email asking if it’s ok to rob the bank.

When told “No” they’ll send a follow up email asking “But what if I just take the amount that I currently have in savings. It’s not really stealing you see. I have that much money there already, I should be allowed to take it out if I want.”

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On 6/23/2019 at 11:45 AM, PK90 said:

Is there a NJ Law that forbids a non-licensee from assembling a firearm from a receiver? NO

Is there a Directive, Guideline or Letter from the NJSP/NJAG that forbids the same? NO

A non-licensee can assemble, not manufacture, a firearm. 

NJ Laws are made to forbid, not allow, unless it is in an exemption.

IMHO, these Manufacturers are either misinterpreting this letter, or are trying to corner the market by using scare tactics.

It's coming.

21 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

 

Im not so sure they "spearheaded" anything... 

Are they the first to offer a firearm for sale? yes. but the ATF letters have been around for a while now.... They are capitalizing on the situation( i got no problem with that),

However it would be important to recognize that literally everything THIS VERY thread pointed out over a year ago was simply confirmed by NJSP... was their "permission" really needed... NO IMO. While people were scared of laws that didn't exist... plenty of people built their own after the information was made public. In fact, this was so black and white that the NJSP simply cited the law word for word. Now its the bickering over if you can build one.... look i didnt need permission to build my rifles from the state police.. so i didn't look for their permission to build a firearm.. the only place i look is the law. 

What they have done is given the average person confidence they can own one of these... and maybe to a fault. 

Personally, people are scared of their own shadows around here.... and now that the cat is out of the bag... i wont be too happy in a few years when the state shuts all of this down.

This is why people can't have nice things.  I am saying this will be done win under 12 months.

7 hours ago, High Exposure said:

You can’t put a vertical grip on an AR pistol  under 26”. That makes it an AOW.

If you take the front vertical grip off, this “Firearm” becomes a pistol under the federal laws. Once it’s defined as a pistol, it violates NJ’s Assault Weapon prohibitions.

If you replace the brace with a stock, it becomes a Rifle under the federal law (SBR technically) and that requires a tax stamp federally and it also violates NJ’s restrictions on Short Barreled Shotguns (NJ’s term for any short Barreled long gun)  and most likely the evil features list making it an Assault Weapon in N.J. as well.

There are lots of technicalities when you go down this rabbit hole. 

There it is again - the qualifying statement - “I could be wrong but that’s how I read it so far.” 

You better hope you are right.

Build at your own risk.

+100

3 hours ago, PK90 said:

This won't last long either. New laws to come banning them.

without a doubt.

 

 

Ok, so I stayed out of this for a while but have been on the phone with a few manufacturers and others in the industry who are in direct contact with NJSP and have experience with this elsewhere.  I have not contacted NJSP myself.

 

I think this is going to boil down to whether you are going to be right or effective.  

Yes, you can build your own, BUT you should expect to get hassled and likely charged if you do something else stupid.

As per others, NJSP's full intention is that they do not want people building their own and are working on a letter for this.  

Let's be honest here, THIS IS A LOOPHOLE, expect and treat it as one that can close at any moment and be ready to defend it to the letter of the law, including if need be in court.

This is why for 99% of gun owners and folks here on the forum, if you want this... go buy one and carry a copy of the NJSP letter in the gun case because you will be pulling it out, especially if it is at places like Ford Dix/Range 14.

And NJSP full expects numerous people who build their own, to get arrested for not following the definition to the letter of the law on such things as OAL, type of foregrip, etc.

That is of course until the AG decides he wants to focus on these and will be going to change the definition to include these firearms.

So legal to build your own?  Yes.  Would I?  Yes... in PA. lol, no way in hell am I bringing it to NJ.  I will confidently transport and shoot a Modern Materiels or a Dark Storm Industries rifle though with a copy of the letter in the case.  Having something on NJSP letterhead that says it is okay will improve your lifespan versus trying to argue how your built firearm complies with the letter of the law. 

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This state is hilarious.

NJ doesn’t follow federal law, gives them the finger while forcing us to harbor illegals, while they go around killing joggers in Jersey City. 

Yet, here we are, in the legal zone and of course the NJSP doesn’t want us building our own, or owning any firearms to begin with. 

 

Might as well pony up and buy the modern material to put these firearms in common use so when they are banned, take it to the SC. I love the three class system of NJ.  

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26 minutes ago, Maksim said:

It's coming.

This is why people can't have nice things.  I am saying this will be done win under 12 months.

+100

without a doubt.

 

 

Ok, so I stayed out of this for a while but have been on the phone with a few manufacturers and others in the industry who are in direct contact with NJSP and have experience with this elsewhere.  I have not contacted NJSP myself.

 

I think this is going to boil down to whether you are going to be right or effective.  

Yes, you can build your own, BUT you should expect to get hassled and likely charged if you do something else stupid.

As per others, NJSP's full intention is that they do not want people building their own and are working on a letter for this.  

Let's be honest here, THIS IS A LOOPHOLE, expect and treat it as one that can close at any moment and be ready to defend it to the letter of the law, including if need be in court.

This is why for 99% of gun owners and folks here on the forum, if you want this... go buy one and carry a copy of the NJSP letter in the gun case because you will be pulling it out, especially if it is at places like Ford Dix/Range 14.

And NJSP full expects numerous people who build their own, to get arrested for not following the definition to the letter of the law on such things as OAL, type of foregrip, etc.

That is of course until the AG decides he wants to focus on these and will be going to change the definition to include these firearms.

So legal to build your own?  Yes.  Would I?  Yes... in PA. lol, no way in hell am I bringing it to NJ.  I will confidently transport and shoot a Modern Materiels or a Dark Storm Industries rifle though with a copy of the letter in the case.  Having something on NJSP letterhead that says it is okay will improve your lifespan versus trying to argue how your built firearm complies with the letter of the law. 

I have no doubt they will try to close this loophole at some point but look at California, they have tried to ban AR's for 30 years and the manufacturers keep finding loopholes.

 

From Friday's Wall Street Journal:

 

https://www.wsj.com/video/how-gunmakers-tweak-rifles-to-get-around-assault-weapon-bans/482399CD-ABF0-4993-A4A4-4589FE3D05D8.html

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11 minutes ago, nondisclosure said:

This state is hilarious.

NJ doesn’t follow federal law, gives them the finger while forcing us to harbor illegals, while they go around killing joggers in Jersey City. 

Yet, here we are, in the legal zone and of course the NJSP doesn’t want us building our own, or owning any firearms to begin with. 

 

Might as well pony up and buy the modern material to put these firearms in common use so when they are banned, take it to the SC. I love the three class system of NJ.  

Believe it or not NJSP has A LOT of gun supporters.  If NJSP was anti-gun, these firearms would not even be here for discussion.

The issue is not the NJSP but NJ gun laws and anti-gun AG.

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1 hour ago, Maksim said:

Believe it or not NJSP has A LOT of gun supporters.  If NJSP was anti-gun, these firearms would not even be here for discussion.

The issue is not the NJSP but NJ gun laws and anti-gun AG.

Was speaking to an FFL that said the same. When the police stop by they are generally very pro-gun and can't stand the anti-gun lawmakers. Their hands are just tied cuz its their job.

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29 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Same thing. When the AG tells the SP to do something, it will be done.

so-it-shall-be-written-so-it-shall-be-done.jpg

No they don’t. Whatever happened to that Elizabeth judge who left 3 pistols in his car over night only to have his car broken into and his firearms stolen. Do the transportation laws not apply to him? Was his stop reasonable? Were his guns locked in the trunk? Of course not.

 

So when we say the police are told to do their job, yeah that means it’s to poop on the commoner. Nothing ever happened to that judge proving further that the laws of NJ do not apply to law enforcement and anyone in the political or judicial arena. 

Anyway. I’ll be buying an MM in the coming weeks. Lol 

 

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3 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Seriously, they’ll probably send the NJSP an email asking if it’s ok to rob the bank.

When told “No” they’ll send a follow up email asking “But what if I just take the amount that I currently have in savings. It’s not really stealing you see. I have that much money there already, I should be allowed to take it out if I want.”

you're killing it!!!!  lol

that's why I said earlier with the whole email thing; makes no sense and opens a can of worms alerting them.  People are fkdumb!

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2 minutes ago, RUTGERS95 said:

you're killing it!!!!  lol

that's why I said earlier with the whole email thing; makes no sense and opens a can of worms alerting them.  People are fkdumb!

What's done is done. Buy one now and enjoy it...

Good part at least everything can be converted into a rifle if it goes south. 

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Yea I really hope people here aren’t emailing the AG or NJSP all the time about this. Figure maybe a handful (relative to the gun owner population in NJ) actually know this “loophole” exists. Just buy or build your firearm and go about your business. The more attention that gets drawn to this, the quicker someone will act to close it. 

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3 hours ago, shooter28 said:

Yea I really hope people here aren’t emailing the AG or NJSP all the time about this. Figure maybe a handful (relative to the gun owner population in NJ) actually know this “loophole” exists. Just buy or build your firearm and go about your business. The more attention that gets drawn to this, the quicker someone will act to close it. 

Much like with the M1 Carbine, I doubt many if any people here will be contacting NJSP.

The people who will will be...

1. People who go into the gun store, see these guns on display and won't believe the FFL and will call.

2. Other FFLs.

3.  People at the range who see someone shooting one of these.

 

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5 hours ago, PK90 said:

Step 1: Restrict

Step 2: Change Law

Step 3: Confiscate

So if one is purchased and this happens, does proof of purchase, justify a search warrant, obviously if they became illegal I’d move it to PA where my mags currently live. I just like to know what kind of issues I may run into before dropping the money for one. 

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28 minutes ago, 0Jeep4 said:

So if one is purchased and this happens, does proof of purchase, justify a search warrant, obviously if they became illegal I’d move it to PA where my mags currently live. I just like to know what kind of issues I may run into before dropping the money for one. 

I believe theyd need the FFL's records which requires a warrant

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