What's this?

[JSF01 13]

So I picked this up from my FFL today, So can any of you guys stuck in NJ Identify it and how much Jail time am I looking at for bring it to NJ?

* Edit

I just realized I probably should have put this into the general firearms discussion category as it's not actually military surplus

Edited May 30, 2018 by JSF01

[GRIZ 3,369]

Looks like it's a "M1 Carbine Type" which is an "assault weapon" in NJ.  Illegal in NJ.

Not sure of how much time you'd get but you will have a few years to get acquainted with Bubba.

[GRIZ 3,369]

BTW, what make is that carbine?

[1563621 388]

I would not post this! Unless you really want to meet Bubba!

[WP22 1,558]

7 minutes ago, 1563621 said:

I would not post this! Unless you really want to meet Bubba!

The OP lives out of state.

[capt14k 2,052]

First firearm purchase when I escape will be a M1 Carbine. Second a Finnish Valmet. Third some sort of NFA item.


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[JSF01 13]

Well believe it or not, Things are not quite what they seem. This particular "M1 Carbine" was made Howa in Japan in the 1960's for the Thai police which was the only export of them outside Japan. From the numbers I could find the contract was for 10,000 of which eventually 300-800 were surplussed into the United States making them a bit rare (I have seen it claimed as low as only 50 but I have found enough reports of sales that it's unlikely to be that low). Now what really makes this thing interesting and why I really debated even posting this is because technically those are trick questions in the OP. See while Howa did make M1 Carbines for the JSDF and every one calls these M1 Carbines, doing some research I discovered that Howa never sold M1 Carbines to the Thai police. The contract with the Thai police was for 10,000 of the M300 rifles which was a hunting variation made for Japanese hunters. This means that this is not an M1 Carbine but a M300 which, unless there has been some very recent change to NJ laws, would technically makes this NJ legal and therefore I shouldn't be looking at any jail time if I did bring it into NJ.

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 hour ago, JSF01 said:

Well believe it or not, Things are not quite what they seem. This particular "M1 Carbine" was made Howa in Japan in the 1960's for the Thai police which was the only export of them outside Japan. From the numbers I could find the contract was for 10,000 of which eventually 300-800 were surplussed into the United States making them a bit rare (I have seen it claimed as low as only 50 but I have found enough reports of sales that it's unlikely to be that low). Now what really makes this thing interesting and why I really debated even posting this is because technically those are trick questions in the OP. See while Howa did make M1 Carbines for the JSDF and every one calls these M1 Carbines, doing some research I discovered that Howa never sold M1 Carbines to the Thai police. The contract with the Thai police was for 10,000 of the M300 rifles which was a hunting variation made for Japanese hunters. This means that this is not an M1 Carbine but a M300 which, unless there has been some very recent change to NJ laws, would technically makes this NJ legal and therefore I shouldn't be looking at any jail time if I did bring it into NJ.

I wouldn't bet my freedom on that.

NJ AWB list "M1 Carbine type".  That includes Plainfields, Universals, and yours.  Doesn't make a difference if it's marked M300 or whatever.

To use your words "technically" it's an "M1 Carbine type".

[capt14k 2,052]

I wouldn't bet my freedom on that.

NJ AWB list "M1 Carbine type".  That includes Plainfields, Universals, and yours.  Doesn't make a difference if it's marked M300 or whatever.

To use your words "technically" it's an "M1 Carbine type".

I agree with Griz. NJ Liberals are so racist and afraid of pictures of angry black men holding M1 Carbines that anything that even looks like a M1 Carbine is illegal in NJ, whether marked M1 Carbine or not. I believe it was Iver Johnson who tried to make a NJ legal M1 Carbine not marked M1 Carbine and it was deemed not legal in NJ by the racist liberals in charge.

 

Yes it was Iver Johnson and the PP-1, M-5, and I believe there was one just marked Iver Johnson Carbine.

 

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[JSF01 13]

 

26 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

I wouldn't bet my freedom on that.

NJ AWB list "M1 Carbine type".  That includes Plainfields, Universals, and yours.  Doesn't make a difference if it's marked M300 or whatever.

To use your words "technically" it's an "M1 Carbine type".

I am definitely not betting my freedom on that, since In the end I have no interest of retraining to NJ. I thought the deal with those Plainfields, Universals and others is that they were all marked M1 Carbine which was what made them illegal. Just like how any rifle marked AR-15 is illegal regardless of manufacture is illegal, but any AR-15 marked something else is legal.

[GRIZ 3,369]

2 minutes ago, JSF01 said:

 

I am definitely not betting my freedom on that, since In the end I have no interest of retraining to NJ. I thought the deal with those Plainfields, Universals and others is that they were all marked M1 Carbine which was what made them illegal. Just like how any rifle marked AR-15 is illegal regardless of manufacture is illegal, but any AR-15 marked something else is legal.

There is no rhyme or reason in what logic NJ had in writing their AWB.  I liken it to me writing a law on brain surgery  (which I know nothing about).

[capt14k 2,052]

 
I am definitely not betting my freedom on that, since In the end I have no interest of retraining to NJ. I thought the deal with those Plainfields, Universals and others is that they were all marked M1 Carbine which was what made them illegal. Just like how any rifle marked AR-15 is illegal regardless of manufacture is illegal, but any AR-15 marked something else is legal.

No. Many of Iver Johnson's as I edited above were not marked M1.

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There is no rhyme or reason in what logic NJ had in writing their AWB.  I liken it to me writing a law on brain surgery  (which I know nothing about).

Which I also agree with. How can an Iver Johnson Carbine not marked M1 not be legal yet a CAR-15 or WASR can be legal?

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[JSF01 13]

1 minute ago, capt14k said:

No. Many of Iver Johnson's as I edited above were not marked M1.

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Hmm well I did not know that, I never really paid attention to non surplus M1 Carbines before, and just been going off what I was told in the past.

 

[JT Custom Guns 957]

There is a bit of a wrinkle here.

While NJ Assault Weapons Ban does say "M1 Type" I believe it has to be marked M-1 and be a carbine to qualify.   NJ also states "AK Type" but only bans Kalishnikov marked models.

I seem to remember another M-1 clone tha twas discussed a while back, and it was legal because it wasn't marker M-1.......????

[GRIZ 3,369]

9 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

There is a bit of a wrinkle here.

While NJ Assault Weapons Ban does say "M1 Type" I believe it has to be marked M-1 and be a carbine to qualify.   NJ also states "AK Type" but only bans Kalishnikov marked models.

I seem to remember another M-1 clone tha twas discussed a while back, and it was legal because it wasn't marker M-1.......????

Don't know if it's the same thing you're talking about but a few years ago Kahr (?) came out with a M1 Carbine.  A NJ FFL called NJSP and asked if it was legal.  NJSP said yes and the dealer sold a few.  The AG must have got in the mix while these was going on and said they were not legal and the dealer had to round up those he sold.

Now if there were a NJ legal M1 Carbine clone out there it would sell big time here.

[capt14k 2,052]

Don't know if it's the same thing you're talking about but a few years ago Kahr (?) came out with a M1 Carbine.  A NJ FFL called NJSP and asked if it was legal.  NJSP said yes and the dealer sold a few.  The AG must have got in the mix while these was going on and said they were not legal and the dealer had to round up those he sold.
Now if there were a NJ legal M1 Carbine clone out there it would sell big time here.

I remember that. The dealer scrambled to get them back from what I recall. The NJ Liberals are racists and will not allow anything that resembles an M1 because of "scary" pics that give them nightmares.



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[W2MC 1,699]

Yeah...gives me nightmares, too. 

Keep your finger off the trigger!

 

!

[capt14k 2,052]

Yeah...gives me nightmares, too. 

Keep your finger off the trigger!

 

[emoji6]

!

I think at that moment he was ready to use it. I've always been amazed that the Black Panthers were allowed to run around with firearms acting all sorts of militant and weren't gunned down in a blaze of gunfire. Then again that was mostly California. Don't recall them trying that crap in Texas.

 

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[GRIZ 3,369]

1 hour ago, capt14k said:

 

 

I remember that. The dealer scrambled to get them back from what I recall. The NJ Liberals are racists and will not allow anything that resembles an M1 because of "scary" pics that give them nightmares.



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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

I think at that moment he was ready to use it. I've always been amazed that the Black Panthers were allowed to run around with firearms acting all sorts of militant and weren't gunned down in a blaze of gunfire. Then again that was mostly California. Don't recall them trying that crap in Texas.

 

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That photo is not a Black Panther.  That's Macolm X.  That photo appeared shortly after his break with the Nation of Islam and intended to show he was ready to defend himself and his family from the Nation of Islam.

While he was radical and a separatist, after his break with the Nation of Islam he had many ideas most of us would agree with.  He wanted American Blacks to become responsible and educated.  He believed before a black man asked for help he needs to help himself.

He wasn't anti-white as many think.  He hated the white men who thought they knew what the black man needed.  He once said,

"I believe in human beings and all human beings should be respected regardless of their color". 

It was ideas like this that got him assassinated by Nation of Islam thugs.

There are a few of his ideas I think no one here would disagree with,

"Non-violence is fine as long as it works"

"I don't even call it violence if it's in self defense.  I call it intelligence"

[JSF01 13]

I really believe there should be an amendment passed saying that laws need to be interpreted consistently and in the event of an inconsistency you the default interpretation the one that is least government intrusive.

[GRIZ 3,369]

46 minutes ago, JSF01 said:

I really believe there should be an amendment passed saying that laws need to be interpreted consistently and in the event of an inconsistency you the default interpretation the one that is least government intrusive.

That's the job of the courts.

[JSF01 13]

19 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

That's the job of the courts.

Problem is without something black and white written down there is nothing stopping them from making judgements based on what they personally believe instead of what the law. actually says.

[capt14k 2,052]

 

 

 

That photo is not a Black Panther.  That's Macolm X.  That photo appeared shortly after his break with the Nation of Islam and intended to show he was ready to defend himself and his family from the Nation of Islam.

While he was radical and a separatist, after his break with the Nation of Islam he had many ideas most of us would agree with.  He wanted American Blacks to become responsible and educated.  He believed before a black man asked for help he needs to help himself.

He wasn't anti-white as many think.  He hated the white men who thought they knew what the black man needed.  He once said,

"I believe in human beings and all human beings should be respected regardless of their color". 

It was ideas like this that got him assassinated by Nation of Islam thugs.

There are a few of his ideas I think no one here would disagree with,

"Non-violence is fine as long as it works"

"I don't even call it violence if it's in self defense.  I call it intelligence"

 

Yes the photo and Black Panther comment were two separate things. Though the Black Panthers formed after Malcolm X assassination and took on many of his philosophies. Also let's not turn Malcolm X into Saint like they did with MLK. Next thing Farrakahn will be a great man.

 

 

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/facing-up-to-black-anti-semitism/

 

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[GRIZ 3,369]

15 minutes ago, JSF01 said:

Problem is without something black and white written down there is nothing stopping them from making judgements based on what they personally believe instead of what the law. actually says.

That is a fallacy in our system but can you think of a better one?

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

6 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 

 

Yes the photo and Black Panther comment were two separate things. Though the Black Panthers formed after Malcolm X assassination and took on many of his philosophies. Also let's not turn Malcolm X into Saint like they did with MLK. Next thing Farrakahn will be a great man.

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Not making Macolm X a saint.  Just saying he wasn't all bad.  Yes the Black Panthers adopted many policies of Macolm X.  However they murdered a lot of people including over 35 cops.  Ask Werner Foerster's family what they think of Black Panthers.

[capt14k 2,052]

Not making Macolm X a saint.  Just saying he wasn't all bad.  Yes the Black Panthers adopted many policies of Macolm X.  However they murdered a lot of people including over 35 cops.  Ask Werner Foerster's family what they think of Black Panthers.

Black Panthers were POS thus why I'm surprised they weren't gunned down. I personally know his son who turned out to be a good man but had to grow up without a father because of that human piece of excrement that is allowed to live freely in Cuba. One secret hope of mine is Trump sends in Seals to take her out.

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[PK90 3,570]

Don't know if it's the same thing you're talking about but a few years ago Kahr (?) came out with a M1 Carbine.  A NJ FFL called NJSP and asked if it was legal.  NJSP said yes and the dealer sold a few.  The AG must have got in the mix while these was going on and said they were not legal and the dealer had to round up those he sold.
Now if there were a NJ legal M1 Carbine clone out there it would sell big time here.

"Kahr Arms Auto Ordnance US Carbine Caliber ML"

In fact, I believe all of the carbines ever produced, government and commercial, were "US Carbine" models. The calibers varied, ie M1, ML, 7.62, 5.7, .22, etc. They are all "M1 Carbine Types".

The AK Type is overlooked. Do you want to open that box?

Oh, not all of the carbines were returned. LOL.

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[capt14k 2,052]

 

 

 

 

"Kahr Arms Auto Ordnance US Carbine Caliber ML"

 

In fact, I believe all of the carbines ever produced, government and commercial, were "US Carbine" models. The calibers varied, ie M1, ML, 7.62, 5.7, .22, etc. They are all "M1 Carbine Types".

 

The AK Type is overlooked. Do you want to open that box?

 

Oh, not all of the carbines were returned. LOL.

 

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I have to double check my Iver Johnson book but I am pretty sure they made ones without U.S. Carbine marking as well as M1 marking.

 

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[PK90 3,570]

I have to double check my Iver Johnson book but I am pretty sure they made ones without U.S. Carbine marking as well as M1 marking. 
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Ok. I see M-5.


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[capt14k 2,052]

Ok. I see M-5.

 

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There was also a PP-1.

 

 

I also think there was a pistol named after you PK but I think a different number.

 

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