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For Those who don't believe registration leads to confiscation

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Happening now in CA as legal gun owners try to follow the law there and register their previous legal ARs, CA DOJ is showing up at their doors and confiscating them.
 
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1451845
 
This is why I don't believe there should even be background checks. I used to think like many others that not having background checks is unsafe and foolish. I now say BS. Background checks don't protect us and are just a hurdle now, and will one day could be a means to confiscation. We got along for years prior to the Brady Bill without background checks. I would love to see SCOTUS overturn all the laws that infringe on firearms ownership including state and federal NFA, GCA, Hughes Amendment, and NICS.

And another thread of 4 jackbooted thugs showing up after following the law to register.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1444645

NJ will be next.
 
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"230 rounds of ammunition"?  Not having enough ammo isn't a crime, but I guess it was called out by the local news for being such an absurdly low number?    :-)

That said, might the silencers have been legal, or is CA like NJ in refusing to recognize the federal tax stamp?

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Considering half the people on that forum are calling BS, I'll wait for actual proof of confiscation.


That's already been proven. Why do people respond without reading everything?


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"230 rounds of ammunition"?  Not having enough ammo isn't a crime, but I guess it was called out by the local news for being such an absurdly low number?    :-)
That said, might the silencers have been legal, or is CA like NJ in refusing to recognize the federal tax stamp?


CA, NJ, and 6 other communist states don't allow suppresors even if you have federal tax stamp.


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Over the last couple of years... I've come to understand why gun owners feel a certain healthy distrust of registration schemes. And no, it's not because I'm "drinking the Kool-Aid", LOL... it's just there always seems to be cases that quickly crop up where the new registration mandate is abused or at least handled in an overly enthusiastic, heavy-handed way. Frankly, this story of the farmer (linked by 1LtCAP) will only feed the distrust that gun owners feel.

As I see it, if someone is VOLUNTARILY registering a firearm, then clearly they believe it complies. Why on earth would you knowingly upload a pic of something that didn't meet the requirements? A reasonable gov't response would be to send that person an email (or give a call), and say, "Hey, we get it... these laws are complicated... but from what we see in that photo, we think you're out of compliance. We're not looking to jam you up since you're clearly trying to follow the law... so here's a list of FFL's in your area. Please go to one and correct this within 14 days."  Granted, there's probably details we're missing (like what's the deal is with the other firearms... you really can't trust the first reports, everything's called an "assault weapon" these days). But overall, I'm sure other gun owners are looking at this story as a cautionary tale and concluding, "Wow, it certainly doesn't pay to register anything". 

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Sadly Mrs Peel, because that is part of the plan. Make compliance burdensome and complicated so its near impossible to stay within the letter of the law, ; and set stiff penalties for minor infractions, and the majority of sheeple will give-up and divest.

 

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Sadly Mrs Peel, because that is part of the plan. Make compliance burdensome and complicated so its near impossible to stay within the letter of the law, ; and set stiff penalties for minor infractions, and the majority of sheeple will give-up and divest.

 

It's true. I sold the rifles and shotguns I was allowed to keep when the paperwork became too onerous to keep up with. The guns we still legal and I could have kept them if I'd kept up with the paperwork. I just got worn down by the whole thing.

 

It's not going to happen again.

 

ETA: This was before I left the UK.

 

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one other thing to think about.
 
 it took 150k bail. who here can really afford that, then afford the attorney that we all know he's gonna need? i know i can't.

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3 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

one other thing to think about.

 

 it took 150k bail. who here can really afford that, then afford the attorney that we all know he's gonna need? i know i can't.

C’mon, just get a bail bond at 200% interest. 

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Scumbag pieces of Shit. So much for their oath to uphold the Constitution. The one is from Tennessee no less. Hopefully he is harassed by law enforcement and locals there every time he tries to visit home.


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3 hours ago, BobA said:
Quote

When Page went to drug rehab, her aunt placed her belongings in a storage unit, then stopped paying the monthly fee. The guns, as elusive as quicksilver in a country awash in weapons, now belonged to whoever bought the contents in a blind auction.

Hmmmm....anyone else thinking that this could be the new boating accident?

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18 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

so greenday....now that it's confirmed?

Are you trying to use the most recent link as proof of coming for our guns? Because unlike that person, I'm not a felon. I didn't violate the law and give up the right to possess a firearm.

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the farmer wasn't a felon. try to keep up. also........if you really wanna get technical......just the fact of being a felon is a very bad way to judge who can/can't own a firearm. but...the farmer dude thought he was complying properly. and he got to visit the greybar motel for it.

 

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On 5/30/2018 at 0:15 PM, 1LtCAP said:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1450472&highlight=Kirschenmann

Quote

More on the Bakersfield farmer and CalGuns member arrested and charged with 12 felonies.

Based on the police report, this is what happened:

1. On April 10, 2018, Sean Provost--Special Agent with the California DOJ's Bureau of Firearms--was told by his supervisor, Special Agent Fred Frausto that on December 7, 2017, Scott submitted an electronic application via CRIS to register an assault pistol and provided multiple photos of the same. It was a fully assembled firearm with a bullet button. On the CRIS form, Scott said he did not build the firearm. Scott said it had an 8 inch barrel and shot a 300 win mag round. (The model of the lower was an SD15-ITG, which appears to be a standard AR-15 lower, so how it shoots a 300 WINMAG is a mystery.)

2. Frausto and Provost then looked at the DROS record for that serial number, which showed the pistol having been purchased in 2013 as a fully assembled and functioning firearm.

3. In November 2017, Scott went to the Bakersfield Get A Gun with the lower only, which was transferred on the DROS form as a "frame only." Get A Gun's owner confirmed to Frausto that the transfer had indeed been of the frame only.

4. The same April day, Special Agent Greg DeLa Cerda and Provost drove to Scott's house and obtained a description for it in order to obtain a search warrant, which included the ability to search any safes and seize the assault pistol, and other assault weapons, large capacity mags associated with assault weapons, and any receipts indicating sales of firearm parts associated with the assault weapons.

5. The following day, Brian McNamara, Kern County Superior Court Judge, issued the search warrant.

6. Six DOJ BOF officers went to conduct the search the residence. They were wearing body cams. They included Provost, Frausto, another Supervisor Isaias Rivera, and 3  other special agents. Scott answered the door and Provost told him that they were there to investigate the Sun Devil AR pistol he had previously attempted to register, and that he wanted to inspect it. Scott said he wouldn't do anything without his attorney present. Scott asked about the specifics of the gun; Provost said it was a Sun Devil lower chambered in 300 Winmag or 300 BO.

7. Scott states that he was recently divorced and that the weapon was purchased by him and his wife mutually and that he did a pawn return on the weapon (whatever that means) and then attempted to register it "after the one year thing" (whatever that means.) Provost asked to enter the residence but was denied. He told him that they had a search warrant and Scott complied. He agreed to help the agents locate the firearms on the premises.

8. Scott was shown the search warrant and explained his wife purchased the firearm prior to their recent divorce. Afterwards, he began registering firearms in his name.

9. He opened a case for the Sun Devil. SAS Frausto advised that in order to render the firearm safe, he had to depress the rear take down of the firearm and separate the lower and upper receivers in order to remove the magazine. Upon doing so, the firearm was rendered safe, but now met the criteria of an·assault weapon in that it had a standard magazine release button that then allowed the user to simply insert a magazine into the magazine well and remove by depressing the release mechanism. At this time, SAS Frausto closed the firearm and returned it into its original  configuration, minus the magazine. As such, this firearm now met the criteria of an assault weapon in that it was a semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine, but has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. SAS Frausto advised a that the firearm would be seized pending review by the district attorney's office in order to determine if charges are warranted for this specific firearm.

10. They then found another assault pistol with no bullet button with a 40 round mag. It was a Noveske N4 lower, listed as being chambered in 300 win mag. Is it really possible to chamber 300 win mag in an AR-15 lower? I assume not because of the size of the round, but they listed that for both the Sun Devil lower and Noveske lower. Maybe they mean 300 BO?

11. They then went through and found a number of non-featureless ARs without bullet buttons. They had telescoping stocks, standard mag releases, pistol grips. No mention is made on whether they had the dreaded flash hiders. 8 such ARs were identified. Two of these were commie caliber rifles, with fully and partially loaded 10 and 20 round mags attached. One of these commie ARs had a slidefire stock. Some of the other rifles were chambered in 223/556 with 20, 30, and 60 round mags attached.

12. They then found 10-inch AR pistol. They initially believed it was an SBR and he was in fact booked for an SBR. But Provost later realized that because the stock was made by Shockwave Technology and designed as a pistol stabilizer, this was not an SBR. However, since it had a standard mag release, it was still an assault pistol.

13. Frausto noticed on one of the rifles carbon buildup suggestive of a silencer. Sure enough, they founda a Surefire Socom 762-RC and M4-200, and ATF paperwork for both.


14. They met with Scott, Mirandized him, and asked him if he'd be willing to speak with them. He said he'll listen to their questions. Frausto asked him if he knew they were illegal, and Scott did not respond. Frausto asked him if the desk and chair in the safe room (he had a walk in safe) was where he worked on his firearms, which Scott confirmed, and joked he was "working down the line" to make his rifles compliant. They gave him DOJ property receipts, confiscated the above rifles, and arrested him.

15. They later checked all the firearms against the registration system, and none were RAWs.

16. The 230 rounds of whatever it was was simply the ammo loaded in the mags in the confiscated firearms. Scott had a ton more guns and ammo that they didn't take during this search (whether they took it later, I have no clue.)

17. DOJ recommended manufacturing charges, but the local DA didn't bring them. The standard and high-capacity magazines did not appear to be a concern at all in the police report.


Gun owners in Kern County need to put pressure on the DA to drop the charges. Prosecutorial discretion has become a very popular concept--should work in favor of patriotic Americans, not just illegals and druggies.

 

 

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On 5/31/2018 at 2:49 AM, vjf915 said:

Hmmmm....anyone else thinking that this could be the new boating accident?

I would think a storage unit rented by you paid by you in your name is a terrible place to squirrel things away....

 

If someone is looking that hard at you you have a myriad of problens... but it is an easy path to follow

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30 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

I would think a storage unit rented by you paid by you in your name is a terrible place to squirrel things away....

 

If someone is looking that hard at you you have a myriad of problens... but it is an easy path to follow

You clearly don't understand the implication in my statement. The fact that it is a storage unit rented and paid for in your name is a BENEFIT as there is PAPERWORK which makes the reason of missing guns LEGITIMATE.

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1 hour ago, vjf915 said:

You clearly don't understand the implication in my statement. The fact that it is a storage unit rented and paid for in your name is a BENEFIT as there is PAPERWORK which makes the reason of missing guns LEGITIMATE.

Again?

What is the premise and what is the benefit..not busting i just dont ser it

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2 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

I would think a storage unit rented by you paid by you in your name is a terrible place to squirrel things away....

 

If the storage unit is located in New Jersey agree that this would not seem to be a great place. However, New Jersey law doesn't apply to Pennsylvania or to Delaware.

It there any Federal or NJ state database of long gun purchases?

I didn't think that there was. I've purchased three long guns on one single occasion on one NICS background check.

 

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37 minutes ago, vjf915 said:

Do you understand the premise when people say "I lost all my guns in a boating accident"?

No it is the stupidest thing I ever heard...

 

Maybe due to cleaner air on Guam you get it I dont....

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57 minutes ago, Bob2222 said:

If the storage unit is located in New Jersey agree that this would not seem to be a great place. However, New Jersey law doesn't apply to Pennsylvania or to Delaware.

It there any Federal or NJ state database of long gun purchases?

I didn't think that there was. I've purchased three long guns on one single occasion on one NICS background check.

 

Well then that makes sense....  a storage unit in PA makes sense...for now...

I am not aware of any defacto database but I can tell you...FFLs that use the online NICS SYSTEM CAN SEARCH FOR EVERY RECORD of every transaction by name...then it is a very easy cross reference to the books and 4473 that you filled out 

I put my name in the search area....EVERY and I mean every transaction date and time came up from the moment it started being used....

 

How easy is it then to search the FFLs books and 4473's,  based on date to find out what was transfered????  Very easy 

 

So while they might say no online database I say BS.

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1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

 

How easy is it then to search the FFLs books and 4473's,  based on date to find out what was transfered????  Very easy 

 

So while they might say no online database I say BS.

I think the system was designed to make it fairly easy to trace transactions from the manufacturer's SN back to a retail purchaser, but not to go the other way -- not for wholesale screening to generate a list of owners of, say, Evil Black Rifles.

NICS was launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, so there are less than 20 years of records in the Federal system. Quality firearms should be expected to last more than 20 years. More than 100 years, really. They should last longer than the first buyer himself should last with a little maintenance. And gun oil and springs are pretty cheap. So probably only a fraction of the records of initial purchases of all the firearms in the US have been captured by NICS.

According to the FBI, there were 11,004 firearm homicides in 2016, and probably only a small fraction where the firearm was left at the scene but the perp himself had absconded from the scene. But there must be millions of Evil Black Rifles in the US. So, yes, Big Brother (or Big Sister) could trace (almost) all Evil Black Rifles back to the original address of the retail purchaser -- but it wouldn't be easy, would cost a lot of money, and the list wouldn't be completely accurate.

Magazines? No registrations, no paper trail and there must be hundreds of millions of standard capacity magazines all over the US. 

 

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