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67gtonut

Firearm found in Penske Rental tonight

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On 6/6/2018 at 10:32 PM, maintenanceguy said:

Imagine if Missouri had a law that it was a felony to have a red pen in your left pants pocket and having a red pen in your left pants pocket was an automatic 3-1/2 to 10 years in prison. Would you research pen carrying laws before visiting Missouri?  I wouldn't think to do so.  It's too silly to think that carrying a pen would be illegal.  NJ's laws are that silly to the rest of the country.  They don't fail to learn our laws as much as they just never imagine that such ridiculous laws could even exist.

People who have not lived outside of New Germany have no idea.  It really isn't even a thought.   Well, perhaps the thought might be "Who drives across the country WITHOUT a gun in the glovebox?  That person would be insane!"

 

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People who have not lived outside of New Germany have no idea.  It really isn't even a thought.   Well, perhaps the thought might be "Who drives across the country WITHOUT a gun in the glovebox?  That person would be insane!"
 
Now that there is the truth.

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Personally I would call the customer to make him aware that some illegal property was left in the glove box, it was turned over to the police, he should expect a call or visit from the police, and that he should contact an attorney before answering any questions.

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Personally I would call the customer to make him aware that some illegal property was left in the glove box, it was turned over to the police, he should expect a call or visit from the police, and that he should contact an attorney before answering any questions.
At this point since the police were already contacted that is better than nothing.


I get the feeling that many here would have contacted the police as well. This makes me realize that this state doesn't have a chance in hell of 2nd Amendment Rights ever being fully restored.

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16 minutes ago, capt14k said:

At this point since the police were already contacted that is better than nothing.


I get the feeling that many here would have contacted the police as well. This makes me realize that this state doesn't have a chance in hell of 2nd Amendment Rights ever being fully restored.

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That's what I meant. If I found it I would have returned the customer's property. Unless the company has a protocol specifically for found firearms just return it. I doubt anyone who works there knows the gun laws, and I wouldn't either. 

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That's what I meant. If I found it I would have returned the customer's property. Unless the company has a protocol specifically for found firearms just return it. I doubt anyone who works there knows the gun laws, and I wouldn't either. 

 

I'm glad to read there are some who would have called the customer. Not maybe would have called the customer, or taken the stance of he should know better. Mistakes happen. Especially if you have ever lived in a free state.

 

 

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2 hours ago, capt14k said:

 

I'm glad to read there are some who would have called the customer. Not maybe would have called the customer, or taken the stance of he should know better. Mistakes happen. Especially if you have ever lived in a free state.

 

 

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I'd give the guy his gun back. 

But that's not without the understanding that you are either irresponsible or living under a rock thinking NJ was going to be OK with this. Every state has outlined specific ways in which carry is legal. Open/CCW and location of firearms in vehicles. Places you can bring them etc.... While most of America cant fathom thinking about not carrying a firearm, even their state has laws about how to do so. So I don't really see the argument that they didn't know better. Everyone should know they need to follow the specific carry laws of the state they are in. That's not even getting into NJ being anti-Gun. If Texas has carry laws, why wouldn't NJ? or every other state they passed through?

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I'd give the guy his gun back. 
But that's not without the understanding that you are either irresponsible or living under a rock thinking NJ was going to be OK with this. Every state has outlined specific ways in which carry is legal. Open/CCW and location of firearms in vehicles. Places you can bring them etc.... While most of America cant fathom thinking about not carrying a firearm, even their state has laws about how to do so. So I don't really see the argument that they didn't know better. Everyone should know they need to follow the specific carry laws of the state they are in. That's not even getting into NJ being anti-Gun. If Texas has carry laws, why wouldn't NJ? or every other state they passed through?


Just because there are laws regulating carry or the lack there of doesn't make the laws right or Constitutional. The only Constitutional Laws are Permitless without regulation carry otherwise known as Constitutional Carry.


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Just in case some missed it....

Guy had a NJ Drivers License...... so he "should" have known the transport laws in NJ

I have heard no follow-up on the situation

I almost think.... and hope, that because the Police did not actually witness him driving vehicle with gun in glovebox, that they just called him to pick up his property.  I think that if they tried to charge him with illegal transport, that a competent lawyer could beat the charge.... 

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Just now, 67gtonut said:

Just in case some missed it....

Guy had a NJ Drivers License...... so he "should" have known the transport laws in NJ

I have heard no follow-up on the situation

I almost think.... and hope, that because the Police did not actually witness him driving vehicle with gun in glovebox, that they just called him to pick up his property.  I think that if they tried to charge him with illegal transport, that a competent lawyer could beat the charge.... 

He could have been in the final stage of moving.

When I moved to NJ, I did a final load some months after I was already settled in, including the last batch of long guns.   I _think_ I had my NJ DL before then, but it was over 20 years ago, so I'm not quite sure.

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10 minutes ago, 67gtonut said:

Just in case some missed it....

Guy had a NJ Drivers License...... so he "should" have known the transport laws in NJ

I have heard no follow-up on the situation

I almost think.... and hope, that because the Police did not actually witness him driving vehicle with gun in glovebox, that they just called him to pick up his property.  I think that if they tried to charge him with illegal transport, that a competent lawyer could beat the charge.... 

No follow-up tends to make me think that our renter was a LEO or retired LEO covered under LEOSA.  "Here's yer .40 cal & don't do it again"...otherwise it be in da papers by now!

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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

 


Just because there are laws regulating carry or the lack there of doesn't make the laws right or Constitutional. The only Constitutional Laws are Permitless without regulation carry otherwise known as Constitutional Carry.


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I don't disagree, which is why I would personally return it. That doesn't change the issue that every state has laws about carrying. Just recently Texas passed some that lifted restrictions. Which is good, but would make one wonder what other states do.

Constitution carry, which I agree with, is pretty new to most states, and even they print cards for reciprocity.

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It would be nice to know if the police had returned the firearm to it's rightful owner and if it is the same person he/she was given a 10 min. lecture about NJ gun laws. Kinda like what would happen in the old days where LE avoided flooding the judicial system with needless cases. If the above scenario did occur. I'm pretty sure that person is never going to do that again and most likely inform others to prevent this from happening to them as well. One can only be hopefully.

Regards,

TokenEntry

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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

 


Just because there are laws regulating carry or the lack there of doesn't make the laws right or Constitutional. The only Constitutional Laws are Permitless without regulation carry otherwise known as Constitutional Carry.


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Try selling that to most states.  That would include gunfriendly states.

You will get no where.

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

No follow-up tends to make me think that our renter was a LEO or retired LEO covered under LEOSA.  "Here's yer .40 cal & don't do it again"...otherwise it be in da papers by now!

Either that or they're not breaking any records to find the owner and it falls into the black hole of confiscated goods. They know damn well no one is going to step up and ask where's my gun.

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13 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Well there are 13 states that agree last I checked

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That makes 37 states where your argument is an impossible sell.  That's most states.

Don't get me wrong.  I am an advocate of Constitutional Carry but don't think you'll ever see it everywhere.

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That makes 37 states where your argument is an impossible sell.  That's most states.

Don't get me wrong.  I am an advocate of Constitutional Carry but don't think you'll ever see it everywhere.

That is not correct either. Oklahoma recently passed Constitutional Carry but the Governor Vetoed while they were out of session but they have enough to override the veto and may add a special session. If not Governor is Term Limited this year. So expect it in 2019. Also look for Texas, Georgia, and Nebraska. Also a good chance for Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Nevada. If they get the one scumbag Republican out in South Carolina, who keeps tabling bills to protect his concealed carry course business, it will be the law there too.

 

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In 1986 there was 26 May Issue States, 16 No Issue States, and 1 Constitutional Carry State.

Today there are 8 May Issue States (in reality 3 No Issue), 0 No Issue, and 13 Constitutional Carry.

Constitutional Carry is growing outside the Communist held states.

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17 minutes ago, capt14k said:

That is not correct either. Oklahoma recently passed Constitutional Carry but the Governor Vetoed while they were out of session but they have enough to override the veto and may add a special session. If not Governor is Term Limited this year. So expect it in 2019. Also look for Texas, Georgia, and Nebraska. Also a good chance for Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Nevada. If they get the one scumbag Republican out in South Carolina, who keeps tabling bills to protect his concealed carry course business, it will be the law there too.

 

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2 minutes ago, capt14k said:

In 1986 there was 26 May Issue States, 16 No Issue States, and 1 Constitutional Carry State.

Today there are 8 May Issue States (in reality 3 No Issue), 0 No Issue, and 13 Constitutional Carry.

Constitutional Carry is growing outside the Communist held states.

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Yes it is growing but it's not even halfway there yet.

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Yes it is growing but it's not even halfway there yet.

And in 1986 not even half the states didn't allow any carry unless you were politically connected. 2 years ago there was 1 Constitutional Carry State. Point is your statement was I will get nowhere selling to most States including gun friendly. I don't have to sell anything they are freely buying. 

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4 minutes ago, capt14k said:

And in 1986 not even half the states didn't allow any carry unless you were politically connected. 2 years ago there was 1 Constitutional Carry State. Point is your statement was I will get nowhere selling to most States including gun friendly. I don't have to sell anything they are freely buying. 

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Please don't twist things around to try and fluff off my original comment to make you seem right and me wrong.  The fact Constitutional Carry is growing has no bearing on the situation in the OP.   There are 13 states that have Constitutional Carry.  NJ is not one of them. 37 of them have carry laws. None of those laws are unconstitutional until they deemed so by a court.  That is the way it is and is the system outlined in the Constitution.

Most gun laws are stupid.  Violate them and get caught you're screwed.  Arguing they are unconstitutional will get you...no where.

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Please don't twist things around to try and fluff off my original comment to make you seem right and me wrong.  The fact Constitutional Carry is growing has no bearing on the situation in the OP.   There are 13 states that have Constitutional Carry.  NJ is not one of them. 37 of them have carry laws. None of those laws are unconstitutional until they deemed so by a court.  That is the way it is and is the system outlined in the Constitution.
Most gun laws are stupid.  Violate them and get caught you're screwed.  Arguing they are unconstitutional will get you...no where.


Actually I was right, but that is beside the point..

Yes a law can be Unconstitutional before it is ruled on by a court. The court makes it official and is supposed to overturn the law if it is Unconstitutional. You can have laws that are ruled Unconstitutional in one appellate division and Constitutional in another. Referred to as a Circuit Split. That is then when SCOTUS is supposed to step in. We have that situation right now regarding the carrying of fireamrs. SCOTUS will have to take the issue on. I believe the 7th Circuit is correct and the same ruling should apply to NJ's Unconstitutional Concealed Carry laws, because even though NJ claims to be a may issue state in reality it is a no issue state except for former law enforcement and the party elites.


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1 minute ago, capt14k said:

 


Actually I was right, but that is beside the point..

Yes a law can be Unconstitutional before it is ruled on by a court. The court makes it official and is supposed to overturn the law if it is Unconstitutional. You can have laws that are ruled Unconstitutional in one appellate division and Constitutional in another. Referred to as a Circuit Split. That is then when SCOTUS is supposed to step in. We have that situation right now regarding the carrying of fireamrs. SCOTUS will have to take the issue on. I believe the 7th Circuit is correct and the same ruling should apply to NJ's Unconstitutional Concealed Carry laws, because even though NJ claims to be a may issue state in reality it is a no issue state except for former law enforcement and the party elites.


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To use your words, "the court makes it official".

You can argue unconstitutional all you want but until "the court makes it official", your argument doesn't mean anything.

I believe most NJ gun laws are unconstitutional but that means nothing until "the court makes it official".

I have participated in several cases that went to appeal both civil and criminally.  Many times the defense claimed the government's actions were unconstitutional.  The defense prevailed in none of them.

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To use your words, "the court makes it official".
You can argue unconstitutional all you want but until "the court makes it official", your argument doesn't mean anything.
I believe most NJ gun laws are unconstitutional but that means nothing until "the court makes it official".
I have participated in several cases that went to appeal both civil and criminally.  Many times the defense claimed the government's actions were unconstitutional.  The defense prevailed in none of them.


This is true that the court must rule to make it official, but if a law is never argued Unconstitutional, the court will never rule it to be Unconstitutional.


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11 hours ago, capt14k said:

At this point since the police were already contacted that is better than nothing.


I get the feeling that many here would have contacted the police as well. This makes me realize that this state doesn't have a chance in hell of 2nd Amendment Rights ever being fully restored.

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If it were me and me alone who had "discovered" the item in question, I would probably have given the prior occupant a phone call and informed him that  something "interesting" was found in the glove box.  However as Troy pointed out, too many camel noses had already sniffed under that tent, so he was stuck with what could be done.

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