capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 At my last inspection, the IOI had a list of NTNs with dates. While going through the 4473s for the year, he crossed checked them. So they know who was approved and denied.Sent from an undisclosed location via TapatalkYes they had a NTN, but that shouldn't have any info attached to it. Now if they are cross checking your book with that NTN I certainly hope that aren't copying the names in your book. If so that would be a backdoor way to compiling a gun registration database and in violation of federal law. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, capt14k said: Yes they had a NTN, but that shouldn't have any info attached to it. Now if they are cross checking your book with that NTN I certainly hope that aren't copying the names in your book. If so that would be a backdoor way to compiling a gun registration database and in violation of federal law. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk DUDE thats exactly what NJ Nics has. Name, Date , Number , Status.. Just now, remixer said: DUDE thats exactly what NJ Nics has. Name, Date , Number , Status.. If they had the NTN they would need a date and name as well or why bother bringing the NTN numbers... what would they be able to reference to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 it CANT lead to a registry because nics DOES NOT KNOW WHAT YOU PURCHASED.Read what you just wrote. If They are checking dealer books with NTN then they absolutely would know what you bought. The name of the person, caliber, make and model not in your books?The NTN alone should have no name attached to it. Not til they see the dealer books do they have that info. That is a backdoor way towards a registry.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, capt14k said: Read what you just wrote. If They are checking dealer books with NTN then they absolutely would know what you bought. The name of the person, caliber, make and model not in your books? The NTN alone should have no name attached to it. Not til they see the dealer books do they have that info. That is a backdoor way towards a registry. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Again... NICS does not know what you bought. The ATF inspector CAN check what you bought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 If they had the NTN they would need a date and name as well or why bother bringing the NTN numbers... what would they be able to reference to? They would be able to reference the NTN to the 4473. They don't need to have a name and date to match a number to a number. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, capt14k said: They would be able to reference the NTN to the 4473. They don't need to have a name and data to match a number to a number. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HOW? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 HOWI assume when you mark approved on 4473 you also are given a NTN?Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, capt14k said: I assume when you mark approved on 4473 you also are given a NTN? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk and? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 and? And the agent takes his list of NTN and goes through your 4473 file and checks off each number as he goes along. Not til he looks at the name on the form does he know the name. At least that is how it is supposed to be. Now if he looks at your book he knows name and what was purchased. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 Explain to me how the ATF brought a list of numbers to Pauls Inspection.... why would they... if they cant match to a name... the Nics number only shows a date nics was ran. you can pickup within 30 days... so you think pauls agent brought those with the idea of checking 30 days of records for each number not knowing the name of the person. BTW even without the name it really does not matter... You know that the Federal government can hire about 10 million illegals to search and document every single transaction we have ever done and then create a registry Just now, capt14k said: And the agent takes his list of NTN and goes through your 4473 file and checks off each number as he goes along. Not til he looks at the name on the form does he know the name. Now if he looks at your book he knows name and what was purchased. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk For what purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 If the feds or a state wanted to get a registry they would only have to visit every dealer in each state and just scan every single page of every single 4473 the dealer has ever filled out.. Seems like a simple task. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 Explain to me how the ATF brought a list of numbers to Pauls Inspection.... why would they... if they cant match to a name... the Nics number only shows a date nics was ran. you can pickup within 30 days... so you think pauls agent brought those with the idea of checking 30 days of records for each number not knowing the name of the person. BTW even without the name it really does not matter... You know that the Federal government can hire about 10 million illegals to search and document every single transaction we have ever done and then create a registry For what purpose. OK. I will go slower. NICS creates a NTN this is a number to show there was an approval. You mark that number down I assume on 4473 or in book of both. This covers the dealer that they ran the NICS and got an approval. NICS gives ATF agent these list of numbers that dealers were given, but just numbers with no names attached. Agent shows up with list of numbers. As agent goes through 4473 or book or both and each time he sees a NTN he goes to his list and makes sure it is there. If there is an approval without a number or a number not on his list I assume that could be a problem unless the dealer can show that he waited 3 days and didn't hear back from NICS so he proceeded with sale. If dealer just made up a number that would be a big problem. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, capt14k said: OK. I will go slower. NICS creates a NTN this is a number to show there was an approval. You mark that number down I assume on true in book of both. This covers the dealer that they ran the NICS and got an approval. NICS gives ATF agent these list of numbers that dealers were given. Agent shows up with list of numbers. As agent goes through 4473 or book or both and each time he sees a NTN he goes to his list and makes sure it is there. If there is an approval without a number of a number not on his list I assume that could be a problem unless the dealer can show that he waited 3 days and didn't hear back from NICS so he proceeded with sale. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Dont go slower.. just be accurate. The nics number goes on the 4473 not in the AD book. Why bother with a list of NTN's.. just copy all the info from the 4473 and or scan the AD book. that gives you all you need... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 If the feds or a state wanted to get a registry they would only have to visit every dealer in each state and just scan every single page of every single 4473 the dealer has ever filled out.. Seems like a simple task. NJ since they keep records they could just look for the large purchasers.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Dont go slower.. just be accurate. The nics number goes on the 4473 not in the AD book. Why bother with a list of NTN's.. just copy all the info from the 4473 and or scan the AD book. that gives you all you need... Ok so agent goes through 4473 and checks off the numbers. Why would there need to be a name attached to the number to do this?Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, capt14k said: NJ since they keep records they could just look for the large purchasers. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Why stop at NJ... NJ has pretty much the same data as the feds minus the type of gun.. unless you live in certain southen states where more then 1 guy requires the dealer to send the ATF all the purchasing info including serials, brand, caliber etc etc.. ok im done with this debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted June 16, 2018 The NTNs are in chronological order by date. So should the 4473s. As the IOI goes through the 4473, he checks off the number in his NTN list. I assume that is to assure there are no missing or extra 4473s. You don't need the NTN list to know who bought what. All info is on the 4473s. ETA: Sorry. I am a slow typer. Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 The NTNs are in chronological order by date. So should the 4473s. As the IOI goes through the 4473, he checks off the number in his NTN list. I assume that is to assure there are no missing or extra 4473s. You don't need the NTN list to know who bought what. All info is on the 4473s.Sent from an undisclosed location via TapatalkThank you so I am right that NTN has no name attached to it. They are just Matching numbers.If they scan all 4473 or entire book they are violating federal law and it would be a backdoor to a registry.There would be a need for them to take down purchaser info and what they purchased not just copy everyone's info.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, PK90 said: The NTNs are in chronological order by date. So should the 4473s. As the IOI goes through the 4473, he checks off the number in his NTN list. I assume that is to assure there are no missing or extra 4473s. You don't need the NTN list to know who bought what. All info is on the 4473s. Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk As my point was the nics data is hardly the way to make the registry.. there are easier ways 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 As my point was the nics data is hardly the way to make the registry.. there are easier ways Your point was NICS data has names attached to it. No it does not. Also copying 4473 physically would be a lot harder. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, capt14k said: Thank you so I am right that NTN has no name attached to it. They are just Matching numbers. If they scan all 4473 or entire book they are violating federal law and it would be a backdoor to a registry. There would be a need for them to take down purchaser info and what they purchased not just copy everyone's info. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I dont think anyone really knows.. What info was attached to the NTN... his agents list might not be what the database has.. i would assume its name, ntn date and status Just now, capt14k said: Your point was NICE data has names attached to it. No it does not. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk You dont know that... Fuck.... i dont know that... You know who knows.... the FBI. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 I dont think anyone really knows.. What info was attached to the NTN... his agents list might not be what the database has.. i would assume its name, ntn date and statusIt's not according to federal law. It is just a number assigned to a FFL. Nothing more attached after 24hrs no names of purchasers.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 BTW this entire mess wasthat NJ can make a registry based off the nics... My point was the Feds can do exactly the same thing.... THey both have access to our books. Just now, capt14k said: It's not according to federal law. It is just a number assigned to a FFL. Nothing more attached after 24hrs no names of purchasers. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk You actually think they delete the data? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 BTW this entire mess wasthat NJ can make a registry based off the nics... My point was the Feds can do exactly the same thing.... THey both have access to our books. You actually think they delete the data? I believe NJ keeps information.Yes the Feds have to delete information.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 again it does not mater. Nics is not how you would do a registry so its really pointless.. ok im opening now... well fight later LOL 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted June 16, 2018 again it does not mater. Nics is not how you would do a registry so its really pointless.. NJ NICS you could find out more info than could Feds. This state is a police state. Say No to NJ NICS get a FFL03 lol. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted June 16, 2018 again it does not mater. Nics is not how you would do a registry so its really pointless.. ok im opening now... well fight later LOL AgreeSent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, capt14k said: I believe NJ keeps information. Yes the Feds have to delete information. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk If you learned anything over the last 2 years... the feds do not follow the rules Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted June 16, 2018 NJ NICS you could find out more info than could Feds. This state is a police state. Say No to NJ NICS get a FFL03 lol. Sent from my iPad using TapatalkAnd buy only used antiquated junk firearms? No thanks.Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, capt14k said: NJ NICS you could find out more info than could Feds. This state is a police state. Say No to NICS get a FFL03 lol. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Yes thats the solution.... You know NJ can kick in your door as well Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted June 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, PK90 said: And buy only used antiquated junk firearms? No thanks. Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk LOL... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites