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slickskin

breaking down the new gun laws signed by the governor

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And buy only used antiquated junk firearms? No thanks.

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My antiquated Firearms saved Europe from speaking German. Give me a semi auto .30-06 with 8-10 rounds over a 30 round 5.56. I don't need as many rounds. If I am running black tips most body armor or barriers become useless.


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Something like this will do the trick.

8c54af1180fda4573097759aef7131dd.jpg


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1 minute ago, capt14k said:

 


My antiquated Firearms saved Europe from speaking German. Give me a semi auto .30-06 with 8-10 rounds over a 30 round 5.56. I don't need as many rounds. If I am running black tips most body armor or barriers become useless.


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Actually some of your firearms caused Europe to almost speak German.

ok i gotta get to work... fuck off LOL

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1 hour ago, remixer said:

Jun 24, 2013 - The government has already told us that background check records are saved. ... The calls for universal background checks are a deception. The NICS background check system is designed as and fully functional as a record storage system and federal gun registry.

<< End Ammo Land Statement>>

Nics Checks are saved.. The actual gun you purchased are not saved in the nics system (Hand gun or Long gun is noted in the nics check).. only time and date you ran the nics.   This is nationwide... How else would the FBI say oh this shooter passed nics without being able to see he ran a nics....  I think Not Saved was a word game...

BTW i had an ATF agent from Florida call me and ask me to pull all the records for a certain person... My reply was it does not work like that.. You need to tell me a gun you want looked into and the date i received it.

Also dealers with Digital AD books can search by name... I do not use digital books,  most NJ ffl's do not use digital books.

I know how nics works and i know the paperwork ....  I've done it.

 

My point is the record of the NICS check facilitates the search for what was purchased at the dealer level. 

So and so has 15 nics checks....let's say THAT raises a flag undwr the new red flag law....

 

Now they go to said dealer and ask for the 4473 associated with this date and search for this person...  now they now exactly what u bought..when they really shouldn't in that type of methodology.

 

What dealer is going to say no and tell them to get a warrant ....

 

To build on what cap has said....  what prevents them now for going for warrants for searches for magazines???  Nothing.

They have probable cause now and know what they are searching for...it is far from a fishing expedition.

My understanding and this may be wrong please correct me if I am....for a judicial warrant to be issued for search you need the specific items being searched for and probable cause to search for said items.....sworn under oath...cough cough....

So I dont think it is out of the ordinary to think that if they want to begin a search...they have the time, manpower etc.  All they need is the will....

 

You dont have time on your side....all you have is risk...and living day to day...fearing a knock.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 


My antiquated Firearms saved Europe from speaking German. Give me a semi auto .30-06 with 8-10 rounds over a 30 round 5.56. I don't need as many rounds. If I am running black tips most body armor or barriers become useless.


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Something like this will do the trick.

8c54af1180fda4573097759aef7131dd.jpg


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I'll take a bolt action no4 please.....garands are quirky old and dont really work well...they are fun to shoot though..when they work..if they work...

When dealing with 3006, or any 30cal, todays cover becomes concealment very quickly ...

 

I would never feel undergunned with any antique milsurp .....

 

And if it is really a shtf time....a fal clone would be great 

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I'll take a bolt action no4 please.....garands are quirky old and dont really work well...they are fun to shoot though..when they work..if they work...

When dealing with 3006, or any 30cal, todays cover becomes concealment very quickly ...

 

I would never feel undergunned with any antique milsurp .....

 

And if it is really a shtf time....a fal clone would be great 

True about the Garand. That's why I chose my new Belgian Army Issued FN-49.

 

I was just debating the other day about pre WWII bolt actions. I and a few others said the Enfield. It's faster and more accurate than any other except maybe the K31.

 

Combined accuracy and speed I should say. I find the Finnish M/28-30 more accurate than the Enfield, but it lacks in speed.

 

Black Tips in .308 are hard to find and expensive. Plus the extra power of the .30-06 could be a difference maker, but yes any .30 is better than .223.

 

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3 hours ago, this_is_nascar said:

Please edit your post. I never made that statement. You quoted someone else and put my name to it. Not cool.


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I'm sorry if the above quote about agreeing "that the average Joe shouldn't need...etc".  I don't understand how the quote has @this_is_nascar on it.  But if It wasn't you I truly apologize. 

Who ever the quote was from, I was just trying to point out that the type of gun shouldn't be relevant when trying to lift or fight against restrictions or 2A rights.  But that was my point and the other quote was not yours, so again Sorry about that.   

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3 minutes ago, BobA said:

I'm sorry if the above quote about agreeing "that the average Joe shouldn't need...etc".  I don't understand how the quote has @this_is_nascar on it.  But if It wasn't you I truly apologize. 

Who ever the quote was from, I was just trying to point out that the type of gun shouldn't be relevant when trying to lift or fight against restrictions or 2A rights.  But that was my point and the other quote was not yours, so again Sorry about that.   

Yup.  It appears the quote Posted was a quote from slickskin.  Since I lifted it from your post it carried your name.  What can I say? I'm an analog guy stuck in a digital world and fucked up.  Sorry.

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4 hours ago, capt14k said:

 


The actual gun is not saved but they can simply match up the NICS search with your book. Then they have make, model, and caliber. So NY or NJ could cross reference anyone that bought an AR-15 and then get some liberal judge to issue a warrant to search for, "high capacity" 15 round magazines. That oxymoron is as bad as liberal firearms owner.


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The problem with the same scenario you give is there is no probable cause there. Using your logic a judge could also issue a warrant for "high capacity" magazines if you own just about any semiautomatic with a detachable magazine.  Glickman 17, Beretta 92, etc.

You obviously have never prepared an affidavit for a search warrant.  I have on many occasions for federal and state judges in about 10 states.  There is no probable cause in your scenario.

 

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The problem with the same scenario you give is there is no probable cause there. Using your logic a judge could also issue a warrant for "high capacity" magazines if you own just about any semiautomatic with a detachable magazine.  Glickman 17, Beretta 92, etc.
You obviously have never prepared an affidavit for a search warrant.  I have on many occasions for federal and state judges in about 10 states.  There is no probable cause in your scenario.
 
No there isn't and the warrant shouldn't hold up, but this is a hypothetical scenario where they start coming for our guns. So they have a "confidential informant" and supporting documentation and the right judge and warrant is issued. Bottomline is records should not be kept to keep law enforcement honest. They have used illegal wire taps by spoofing cell towers to get warrants so it isn't completely out of the realm of possibilities.

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So can i post a handgun/longun for sale in this forum and still do a face to face before the 180 days or does it have to go through a ffl, or Im confusing two different laws. Thanks
You can still sell FTF till October 1st. After that with a FFL03 you can sell FTF C&R firearms (more than 50 years old) to another FFL03. Long guns they still need a FPID and handguns they still need a PTP.

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3 minutes ago, capt14k said:

You can still sell FTF till October 1st. After that with a FFL03 you can sell FTF C&R firearms (more than 50 years old) to another FFL03. Long guns they still need a FPID and handguns they still need a PTP.

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Didn't Nappen say that no new transfers of magazines are allowed, only that you can modify your own?

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3 hours ago, BobA said:

Yup.  It appears the quote Posted was a quote from slickskin.  Since I lifted it from your post it carried your name.  What can I say? I'm an analog guy stuck in a digital world and fucked up.  Sorry.

I said maybe banning the most dangerous military grade weapons (which is already the case in all 50 states) is reasonable and people disagreed.

But current laws are now that any gun, even a single shot hunting rifle can be taken away from you without due process because of a restraining order or a complaint from family or a mental health worker you're all fine with.... I just don't know what to say. It's also a load of bull that you need an FID card to buy anything at all which can be very difficult to get, but again the only thing people here complain about is the magazine restrictions. This is why we're losing this fight lol.

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Didn't Nappen say that no new transfers of magazines are allowed, only that you can modify your own?

 

I was referring to firearms. Which is what the question was about.

 

Yes Nappen did say that about magazines, but Nappen also says you can't transport a loaded magazine to the range. Stores can not sell over 10 round magazines based on what Steve posted, and I probably wouldn't gamble mail ordering over 10 round magazines, but I don't see in the law where it says used magazines can't be sold between 2 residents. Admittedly I haven't looked that close either. I have been more concerned with background check law and recognition of FFL03. Hopefully we have an injunction soon and magazine law is put on hold.

 

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6 hours ago, remixer said:

That would make sense... The Feds are not going to take the dealers word for an approval.. There has to be a database of numbers. dates and names

 

Read PK's post.... that will end your Nics check theory

it CANT lead to a registry because nics DOES NOT KNOW WHAT YOU PURCHASED.

SO essentially, they only know whether we purchased a long gun or a pistol? nothing about specifics? and dumb question? does a nics approval necessarily mean they bought the firearm? besides your guys log books, do they have any way of knowing if the purchase went through or not?

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1 hour ago, slickskin said:

I said maybe banning the most dangerous military grade weapons (which is already the case in all 50 states) is reasonable and people disagreed.

But current laws are now that any gun, even a single shot hunting rifle can be taken away from you without due process because of a restraining order or a complaint from family or a mental health worker you're all fine with.... I just don't know what to say. It's also a load of bull that you need an FID card to buy anything at all which can be very difficult to get, but again the only thing people here complain about is the magazine restrictions. This is why we're losing this fight lol.

you know it's legal to own a tank, right? and in most states you can own machine guns?

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4 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

SO essentially, they only know whether we purchased a long gun or a pistol? nothing about specifics? and dumb question? does a nics approval necessarily mean they bought the firearm? besides your guys log books, do they have any way of knowing if the purchase went through or not?

All the info is available on the 4473. All personal data, firearm info, and whether you took possession is there. NICS only can tell you date, time, NTN, and perhaps type of firearm.

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5 minutes ago, PK90 said:

All the info is available on the 4473. All personal data, firearm info, and whether you took possession is there. NICS only can tell you date, time, NTN, and perhaps type of firearm.

It would be hilarious if people just started 3D printing functional firearms and all of those gun control measures became impossible to enforce. lol

It would be the biggest F YOU ever to this new governor and all these whiny young college students crying about guns.

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It would be hilarious if people just started 3D printing functional firearms and all of those gun control measures became impossible to enforce. lol
It would be the biggest F YOU ever to this new governor and all these whiny young college students crying about guns.


People already do print them.

AK parties were popular in CA. Piece of sheet metal, template, metal shears, and a welder and viola a AK receiver. All other parts can be mail ordered.

80% lowers for AR and Glock.

Their laws if they stand will just cause more of a black market and truly untraceable firearms.


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7 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 


People already do print them.

AK parties were popular in CA. Piece of sheet metal, template, metal shears, and a welder and viola a AK receiver. All other parts can be mail ordered.

80% lowers for AR and Glock.

Their laws if they stand will just cause more of a black market and truly untraceable firearms.


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It would just be so funny to see the look on Gov Murphy and David Hogg's faces if suddenly people just started 3d printing and mass producing ar-15 rifles in their house and circumvented all the magazine restrictions, permits, nics checks and everything lmao.

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10 minutes ago, slickskin said:

It would just be so funny to see the look on Gov Murphy and David Hogg's faces if suddenly people just started 3d printing and mass producing ar-15 rifles in their house and circumvented all the magazine restrictions, permits, nics checks and everything lmao.

You only have to look at the record breaking nics cks the last 3 months.. Nationally it’s backfiring bigly 

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8 hours ago, GRIZ said:

The problem with the same scenario you give is there is no probable cause there. Using your logic a judge could also issue a warrant for "high capacity" magazines if you own just about any semiautomatic with a detachable magazine.  Glickman 17, Beretta 92, etc.

You obviously have never prepared an affidavit for a search warrant.  I have on many occasions for federal and state judges in about 10 states.  There is no probable cause in your scenario.

 

What constitutes probable cause for a search warrant?

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9 hours ago, capt14k said:

No there isn't and the warrant shouldn't hold up, but this is a hypothetical scenario where they start coming for our guns. So they have a "confidential informant" and supporting documentation and the right judge and warrant is issued. Bottomline is records should not be kept to keep law enforcement honest. They have used illegal wire taps by spoofing cell towers to get warrants so it isn't completely out of the realm of possibilities.

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Okay...

1.  It's not that the warrant wouldn't hold up.  The warrant wouldn't be issued by the most "liberal judge".  

2.  One can have a confidential informant.  Does your use of quotation marks indicate you think cops just make up confidential informants?  If you ever wrote an affidavit for a search warrant you would know you have to state both the reliability of the informant and reliability of the information and the totality of the circumstances.  The last is the only requirement in most jurisdictions but the first two are really part of it.  More on that later.   You have to prove to the judge that the contraband is still at the location you're requesting the warrant for.  The warrant must also contain the specific items you are searching for.  "Supporting documentation",  among other things that usually means long hours of surveillance and assembling documents.

3.  The "right judge"?  Better hope it's one that doesn't want spelling and grammar his way (I've seen that).  Yes some judges are easier to get warrants from.  That's because of a working relationship the LEO and judge has developed.  If I previously get 10 different search warrants from a judge and I find the contraband or evidence I listed in the warrant it increases my credibility.  The judge knows this from the return of the warrant   Judges are anyone else in their career.  They don't want to make a decision or sign warrants that will be overturned.  Do judges make mistakes? Sure they do.  It doesn't do anything for their career if they make too many mistakes.

4.  Illegal wiretaps used to develop probable cause for a warrant?  What country was this in?  Not the US.

Doing so is a case of the fruit of the poisonous tree.  If something illegal was done to obtain the probable cause for a warrant, everything associated with that act, including the warrant, is no good and inadmissible. There are exceptions to this but very few.

I never met LEO willing to risk their freedom with an illegal wire tap.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Okay...

1.  It's not that the warrant wouldn't hold up.  The warrant wouldn't be issued by the most "liberal judge".  

2.  One can have a confidential informant.  Does your use of quotation marks indicate you think cops just make up confidential informants?  If you ever wrote an affidavit for a search warrant you would know you have to state both the reliability of the informant and reliability of the information and the totality of the circumstances.  The last is the only requirement in most jurisdictions but the first two are really part of it.  More on that later.   You have to prove to the judge that the contraband is still at the location you're requesting the warrant for.  The warrant must also contain the specific items you are searching for.  "Supporting documentation",  among other things that usually means long hours of surveillance and assembling documents.

3.  The "right judge"?  Better hope it's one that doesn't want spelling and grammar his way (I've seen that).  Yes some judges are easier to get warrants from.  That's because of a working relationship the LEO and judge has developed.  If I previously get 10 different search warrants from a judge and I find the contraband or evidence I listed in the warrant it increases my credibility.  The judge knows this from the return of the warrant   Judges are anyone else in their career.  They don't want to make a decision or sign warrants that will be overturned.  Do judges make mistakes? Sure they do.  It doesn't do anything for their career if they make too many mistakes.

4.  Illegal wiretaps used to develop probable cause for a warrant?  What country was this in?  Not the US.

Doing so is a case of the fruit of the poisonous tree.  If something illegal was done to obtain the probable cause for a warrant, everything associated with that act, including the warrant, is no good and inadmissible. There are exceptions to this but very few.

I never met LEO willing to risk their freedom with an illegal wire tap.

 

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to expound on these items

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Okay...
1.  It's not that the warrant wouldn't hold up.  The warrant wouldn't be issued by the most "liberal judge".  
2.  One can have a confidential informant.  Does your use of quotation marks indicate you think cops just make up confidential informants?  If you ever wrote an affidavit for a search warrant you would know you have to state both the reliability of the informant and reliability of the information and the totality of the circumstances.  The last is the only requirement in most jurisdictions but the first two are really part of it.  More on that later.   You have to prove to the judge that the contraband is still at the location you're requesting the warrant for.  The warrant must also contain the specific items you are searching for.  "Supporting documentation",  among other things that usually means long hours of surveillance and assembling documents.
3.  The "right judge"?  Better hope it's one that doesn't want spelling and grammar his way (I've seen that).  Yes some judges are easier to get warrants from.  That's because of a working relationship the LEO and judge has developed.  If I previously get 10 different search warrants from a judge and I find the contraband or evidence I listed in the warrant it increases my credibility.  The judge knows this from the return of the warrant   Judges are anyone else in their career.  They don't want to make a decision or sign warrants that will be overturned.  Do judges make mistakes? Sure they do.  It doesn't do anything for their career if they make too many mistakes.
4.  Illegal wiretaps used to develop probable cause for a warrant?  What country was this in?  Not the US.
Doing so is a case of the fruit of the poisonous tree.  If something illegal was done to obtain the probable cause for a warrant, everything associated with that act, including the warrant, is no good and inadmissible. There are exceptions to this but very few.
I never met LEO willing to risk their freedom with an illegal wire tap.

 
 
 


When exactly was the last time you obtained a warrant? 20 years ago? The world is a different place and laws like the Patriot Act and NDAA have eroded our freedoms. The rules have changed. Have they used them to take firearms on a mass scale yet? No. Would they? In places like the PRNJ I wouldn't bet against it.

As for illegal wiretaps I guesss you never heard of a stingray?

https://www.wired.com/2015/10/stingray-government-spy-tools-can-record-calls-new-documents-confirm/

Sadly we have a Circuit Split regarding them as well. The fact that even one court ruled a warrant is not needed to use a stingray device shows the extent of the erosion of our freedoms.


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