JerseyJim

Modifying magazines to 10 round capacity

164 posts in this topic

As with most N.J. owners, the new law reducing max magazine capacity from 15 to 10 rounds affects me the most.  The question(s) I have concern the legality and practicality of reducing a magazine capacity to 10 rounds to be in compliance with the law.  Reading many forums and opinions I can't get a definitive strategy on how I can keep the 15 round mags I already own.  All mags accompanied handguns purchased in New Jersey.  Now I have less than 180 days to deal with them.  My current quandary:

Magazines must be permanently modified to limit them to 10 round capacities.  California forums seem to indicate that one can rivet, epoxy or weld a block to make a mag legal.  However the wording of the new N.J. statute gives me pause.  It says:

  "The bill makes its provisions effective immediately, but allows for a 180-day grace period to transfer, render inoperable, or voluntarily surrender a semi-automatic rifle or magazine that will be unlawful under the bill."

Does "render inoperable" include reducing capacity to 10 rounds?  Is the high capacity nature of a magazine the aspect that must be inoperable or must the magazine be destroyed altogether?  

I have gone ahead and ordered mag conversion kits for two of my 9mm mags and will permanently modify them whenever I can find out what that will mean in N.J.

My other complaint I will throw out there is the unfortunately lack of 10 round factory magazines in stock.  In particular, Walther and Glock mags in low capacity are very hard to find and the situation is likely to worsen now that we are a 10 round state.  I also imagine N.J. gun stores will be sending hundreds of 15 round firearms packages back to their distributors. 

What a mess.

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I may have found some answers applying to the old law rulemaking by the NJSP.  

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/rules/njsp/rp010702a.htm

One part says:

  "N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 is amended to clarify that the definition of a large 
 capacity ammunition magazine does not include an ammunition magazine that has 
 been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 
 rounds of ammunition. The definition is further amended to include an 
 ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 
 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin."

 

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3 hours ago, JerseyJim said:

"The bill makes its provisions effective immediately, but allows for a 180-day grace period to transfer, render inoperable, or voluntarily surrender a semi-automatic rifle or magazine that will be unlawful under the bill."

Just my opinion.... But  if its satisfiably modified to 10 rounds, is no longer an operable 15 round mag.

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3 hours ago, JerseyJim said:

I may have found some answers applying to the old law rulemaking by the NJSP.  

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/rules/njsp/rp010702a.htm

One part says:

  "N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 is amended to clarify that the definition of a large 
 capacity ammunition magazine does not include an ammunition magazine that has 
 been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 
 rounds of ammunition. The definition is further amended to include an 
 ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 
 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin."

 

Does this mean we do not have to use epoxy in addition to a block?  Instead, are magazine blocks sufficient http://magazineblocks.com/ without epoxy?

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23 minutes ago, jaybirdtke said:

Does this mean we do not have to use epoxy in addition to a block?  Instead, are magazine blocks sufficient http://magazineblocks.com/ without epoxy?

No.  It says block of wood or pin =illegal.  You need epoxy or weld it.  I myself am ordering the mag blocks and a dab of epoxy will do it.  I am not drilling a hole in any of my mags.

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No.  It says block of wood or pin =illegal.  You need epoxy or weld it.  I myself am ordering the mag blocks and a dab of epoxy will do it.  I am not drilling a hole in any of my mags.

How you going to get your 15 rounders apart?


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I have handgun 15 rounders that come apart,  and only one 10/22 15 rounder that  dont know what to do with yet...

I assumed you were talking AR mags.


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1 hour ago, Persona non grata said:

I'm not so sure I would go ahead and modify the magazines just yet. Sure, investigate how, but let's all hope the lawsuits do as intended.

I was thinking the same thing, there's a slim chance an injunction could be had or even get the law reversed. At that point, they'll be a whole bunch of guys with epoxied base plates on their 10/15 mags, and they'll have to go out and buy new 15 round mags.. wouldn't that suck?

 

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I was thinking the same thing, there's a slim chance an injunction could be had or even get the law reversed. At that point, they'll be a whole bunch of guys with epoxied base plates on their 10/15 mags, and they'll have to go out and buy new 15 round mags.. wouldn't that suck?
 

That wouldn’t suck. That would be GLORIOUS!!!
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All..this is my opinion...nothing more nothing else.....  WAIT.  You have 180 days.....  your zeal to be compliant is comendable... but WAIT.

Until such time as proper definitions, direction et al are given it is all suppostion.

 

We are gun people and we even disagree as to what is considered permanent and or what methodology makes something permanent.

WAIT.....YOU HAVE 180 DAYS !

A pop rivet in a mag can be removed very easily...I dont think that is permanent, if you do great....BUT does the prosecutor?  It is all opinion until such time as things are more readily defined.

Again my .02....  your risk tolerance is your own, whether the compliance you seek is truly a compliant method is yet unknown and that is where risk comes in.

I tend to not take any risks and or err on the side of the most stringent interpretation and not the least....  ymmv

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16 hours ago, JerseyJim said:

 

My other complaint I will throw out there is the unfortunately lack of 10 round factory magazines in stock.  In particular, Walther and Glock mags in low capacity are very hard to find and the situation is likely to worsen now that we are a 10 round state.  I also imagine N.J. gun stores will be sending hundreds of 15 round firearms packages back to their distributors. 

What a mess.

I just checked eBay and "Glock magazine" produced 8,479 results and "Walther magazine" 2,995. eBay only allows 10 round magazines or less.

With New Jersey joining much larger states like California and New York I don't doubt that there may be spot shortages of 10 round magazines for certain models -- but since California and New York are several years ahead of us, overall the 10-round magazine supply problem should continue to improve.

If you go the Magblock route it may be best to beat the rush by buying the blockers now, but not to mix up the epoxy until December, just in case there is a successful court injunction.

(Also, today is June 15 and our estimated NJ taxes are due -- maybe we should be pushing for a magazine tax credit! Or that they add a $50 magazine buyback to their gun buybacks.)

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Some clarification per Nappen.. Handgun mags are also affected. Not just rifles..

LOOPHOLES & PITFALLS Hundreds of thousands of otherwise honest citizens have now been turned into potential criminals for possessing lawfully obtained magazines over 10 rounds. A conviction for unlawful possession of a large capacity magazine under NJ law is a “crime” which is the equivalent of a “felony conviction.” A person who is convicted loses their Second Amendment Rights and becomes prohibited throughout the entire United States for possession of a firearm. New Jersey’s law banning large capacity ammunition magazines is as ill-conceived as most of New Jersey’s other infamous gun laws. Large capacity ammunition magazines that fit firearms other than semi-automatic firearms are legal. For example, we had a case in Camden County in which our client possessed a drum magazine for a machine gun that did not fit or function in any semi-automatic firearm. After filing our motion, the charges were dismissed, and the magazine returned because it was not prohibited under New Jersey law, which bans only large capacity ammunition magazines for semiautomatic firearms, not fully-automatic firearms. Beware! Any magazine over 10 rounds that fits and functions in a semi-automatic firearm is prohibited. This includes magazines that fit and function in semi-automatic firearms that are not defined as “assault firearms.” For example, the Beretta Model 92 pistol is not banned as an “assault firearm.” However, its standard factory magazine holds 15 rounds. The magazine is now contraband. .22 tube-fed semi-automatic rifles like the Marlin Model 60 and Remington Model 552 are no longer prohibited. After 28 years of prosecuting honest citizens for these type of rifles, the Democrats have finally admitted they were wrong. Think of the lives and families they have destroyed in the process. They still don’t really care, because they keep passing new laws creating new victims of New Jersey gun laws. Of course, no real criminal is going to care about this law or obey it. Only law-abiding citizens will comply and be placed at a disadvantage defending themselves and their families. Governor Murphy and the Democrat controlled legislature has decided that you and your loved one’s lives aren’t worth more than 10 rounds.

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So are the people talking about pinning mags planning on using them in a SD gun?  Or just for range use.   

I wonder who knows more about how the magazine is supposed to function and what cleatance and toletances are required.  The engineer/gunsmith that designed and tested them or a politician.

I'll use the magazine designed for my gun.  

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I’d maybe start looking and picking up 10-round mags. Wouldn’t necessarily do anything with ones I already have. Worse-case you have compliant ones ready. Best case you have more mags. 

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I've had 10-round magazines for most everything because they were cheap after the Clinton AWB expired and if I'm going to drop a magazine on a concrete pad at the range, I'd prefer to ruin a cheap magazine.

I've heard a rule-of-thumb is to have at least 10 magazines and at least 1 replacement recoil spring for every firearm that you actually use (collector items excluded).

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In order to replace my pistol mags that are now 15 rounders, down to 10 rounders, would cost me over $600.... Screw that... Hopefully I'm out of this hell hole by then or the law gets dropped. If they want my mags so bad, they can pay me for them. Eff Em Nazi Bastoids!

Forget about my rifle mags. Would cost me a small fortune to replace them with the exact amount I currently have. Again... Screw dem! :whatever:

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I've had 10-round magazines for most everything because they were cheap after the Clinton AWB expired and if I'm going to drop a magazine on a concrete pad at the range, I'd prefer to ruin a cheap magazine.
I've heard a rule-of-thumb is to have at least 10 magazines and at least 1 replacement recoil spring for every firearm that you actually use (collector items excluded).


I have a 10 round magazine for all my firearms except my FN-49 Argentine. There is no way to modify the magazine again to 10 rounds without making a mess of it since it is welded. I think 10 rounders exist in CA, maybe I should get one. For me personally the magazine restriction has no real effect, but it is an infringement and it needs to go.


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2 hours ago, PeteF said:

So are the people talking about pinning mags planning on using them in a SD gun?  Or just for range use.   

I wonder who knows more about how the magazine is supposed to function and what cleatance and toletances are required.  The engineer/gunsmith that designed and tested them or a politician.

I'll use the magazine designed for my gun.  

 

Then use a ten round mag designed for the gun - :)

51 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 


I have a 10 round magazine for all my firearms except my FN-49 Argentine. There is no way to modify the magazine again to 10 rounds without making a mess of it since it is welded. I think 10 rounders exist in CA, maybe I should get one. For me personally the magazine restriction has no real effect, but it is an infringement and it needs to go.


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Seriously - if no one saw this coming - talk about having a head in the sand - sheesh

 

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Seriously - if no one saw this coming - talk about having a head in the sand - sheesh
 
Me or in general? Like I said it doesn't affect me so I'm guessing you mean in general.

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Apparently you have 180 (now 179 I guess) days to address your over 10 round magazines but you're at risk bringing them to the range in the mean time.  I found this on the NJ firearms Facebook page:

"Evan Nappen was speaking at a US LawShield seminar near me this evening, I wanted to get clarification on a couple of items regarding the magazine ban. Two questions for him were: 1) Does he see any issue with us keeping 15 round magazines in our home defense firearms during the 180 day compliance period 2) During the compliance period, are we ok to continue taking our 15 round magazines to the range and use them? His answer to #1, during the compliance period, he doesn't see an issue continuing to have 15 round magazine in our home defense firearm. His answer to #2, however, there is no provision in the law that permits us to continue taking the magazines to the range. The law actually prohibits the transfer of 15 round magazines, and that prohibition is not covered by the compliance period. He actually sees it as a conflict in the law. He came right out and advised the room to NOT transport magazines with more than 10 round capacity unless you are taking them to a gunsmith for modification."

The statement accompanying the law states...


“The bill’s provisions are effective immediately, but allow for a 180-day grace period to transfer, render inoperable, or voluntarily surrender a semi-automatic rifle or magazine that will be unlawful under the bill.”


There is no provision to allow for the use, just the transfer, etc

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20 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Me or in general? Like I said it doesn't affect me so I'm guessing you mean in general.

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Yes in general - doesn't affect me either - I only have 10's - anything more has not resided in NJ for at least 4 years

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Yes in general - doesn't affect me either - I only have 10's - anything more has not resided in NJ for at least 4 years
I wish I had more than 10s, but they don't exist for most of my rifles. Unless I were to spend $150+ and modify a German MG Mag, but that is destroying history.

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Apparently you have 180 (now 179 I guess) days to address your over 10 round magazines but you're at risk bringing them to the range in the mean time.  I found this on the NJ firearms Facebook page:

"Evan Nappen was speaking at a US LawShield seminar near me this evening, I wanted to get clarification on a couple of items regarding the magazine ban. Two questions for him were: 1) Does he see any issue with us keeping 15 round magazines in our home defense firearms during the 180 day compliance period 2) During the compliance period, are we ok to continue taking our 15 round magazines to the range and use them? His answer to #1, during the compliance period, he doesn't see an issue continuing to have 15 round magazine in our home defense firearm. His answer to #2, however, there is no provision in the law that permits us to continue taking the magazines to the range. The law actually prohibits the transfer of 15 round magazines, and that prohibition is not covered by the compliance period. He actually sees it as a conflict in the law. He came right out and advised the room to NOT transport magazines with more than 10 round capacity unless you are taking them to a gunsmith for modification."

The statement accompanying the law states...

“The bill’s provisions are effective immediately, but allow for a 180-day grace period to transfer, render inoperable, or voluntarily surrender a semi-automatic rifle or magazine that will be unlawful under the bill.”

There is no provision to allow for the use, just the transfer, etc
How does transfer equate to transport?

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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

I wish I had more than 10s, but they don't exist for most of my rifles. Unless I were to spend $150+ and modify a German MG Mag, but that is destroying history.

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Just high power mags.....  waffled and inglis...  NOT messing those up

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Hello, was looking at this topic for similar concerns around the ambiguity of the law.  My advise is that it might be wishful thinking regarding getting this law revoked.  Additionally, you may want to look at NJ Bill A655 introduced Jan 2018 for consideration.  It was a similar bill to the currently passed 10 round bill.  A655 slight difference was 15 to 5. 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2018/Bills/A1000/655_I1.HTM

I am wondering how much longer it will take them to dust that one off and change the text/scope to read from 10 to 5.  The scope is captured at the bottom under the Statement.

Anyone that is aware of what happened this past weekend at the Trenton Art All Night event, should already know that Gov. Ferret Face immediately began the more gun violence legislature rhetoric.  So I would wait for clarity within the 180 days along with the lawsuits, before you do anything to your magazines.  Who knows if they push A655 and we are at it again.

Skipping the punishing the law abiding citizens stuff, because I believe I am preaching to the choir on this forum.

Best of luck

SemperFi!

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Previously, I believe that there was a Attorney General statement allowing blocking magazines to 15 rounds and later rescinded by Corzine's people.

I have read the newly passed bill reducing the limit to 10 rounds but fail to see where you are given the opportunity to again block existing higher capacity mags to the new lower limit.

Absent of actual text in the bill and no statement by the current AG allowing for such, why do people think that it is now an option to do so?

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