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JerseyJim

Modifying magazines to 10 round capacity

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1 minute ago, Sniper22 said:

Yes, it's a shorter spring, but the base plate isn't welded or epoxied, so it can be removed, so I believe that isn't considered "permanent", yet they claim it is compliant:

...." Magazine capacity is regulated by SENTRY's patented True Riser® System inside of a standard size body which is designed to meet strict compliance regulations in specific regions of the United States. "

OK, but aren't they still considered "compliant" with the 15 round max, even if the modification isn't permanent?

 

 

Id argue that to a layperson if the floor plate was removed, it would be unusable. If the floorplate "riser", that takes up the space that the shorter spring can't fit in, is maintained when the mag is put together, thennits still a 10 rd mag.  If it is cut off, the spring will fall inside and the mag will be useless.  So it will no longer be a functional mag (i.e. It is broken).  If someone goes and buys a longer spring, then they are manufacturing or violating the law. 

Removal of a floorplate is not an appropriate test when the innards of the mag are designed solely as a 10rd version.  That's fundamentally different than a full length spring with a mag block inside, which if removed is still a full length/capacity mag.  

 

The 10rd he mag would require the acquisition of additional (contraband) parts to become high capacity. 

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Particularly curious to know your opinion. For example would you sell a riveted mag to a customer in NJ? Or too grey, not worth the risk?
Yes. But there are better methods.

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26 minutes ago, JHZR2 said:

Removal of a floorplate is not an appropriate test when the innards of the mag are designed solely as a 10rd version.  That's fundamentally different than a full length spring with a mag block inside, which if removed is still a full length/capacity mag.  

I've also seen other manufacturers do that, retain the original spring but install a blocker, and the floorplate is removable. So, the blocker can be removed, and the mag is it's original capacity, spring and all. They claim "NJ compliant" too, and I've never seen any NJSP or other legal challenges to them.

I'm sure there are a bunch of those mags currently in possession in the state, and taken to the range regularly.

 

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9 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

I've also seen other manufacturers do that, retain the original spring but install a blocker, and the floorplate is removable. So, the blocker can be removed, and the mag is it's original capacity, spring and all. They claim "NJ compliant" too, and I've never seen any NJSP or other legal challenges to them.

I'm sure there are a bunch of those mags currently in possession in the state, and taken to the range regularly.

 

No doubt there are. Ive seen those blocks sold for all kinds of mags. 

But were specifically talking about hexmags, and the image shown in this thread clearly shows the differences by capacity. The legality, challenge, or approach for other mags is not the discussion here. 

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1 hour ago, JHZR2 said:

But were specifically talking about hexmags, and the image shown in this thread clearly shows the differences by capacity.

I brought up that Hexmag just as one example regarding (lack of) permanent floorplates.

1 hour ago, JHZR2 said:

The legality, challenge, or approach for other mags is not the discussion here. 

Actually it is the discussion, see the title of the thread. People have been discussing modifying mags in general too.

 

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39 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

I brought up that Hexmag just as one example regarding (lack of) permanent floorplates.

Actually it is the discussion, see the title of the thread. People have been discussing modifying mags in general too.

 

Sorry, intended meanings don't always come across well on web forums. 

My discussion was only pertaining to the hexmag. I didn't mean to imply the entire thread.  

That was specifically because, since there is more than one way to skin a cat, the short spring allows a removable floorplate, in a hexmag, because the riser allows the spring to be supported at the correct level, for a spring of that length to operate with 10 or 15 rounds.  Removal of the riser would ruin the mag (at least without manufacturing a new one out of other acquired parts). The riser must be there, no more no less.  So it's a 10 round mag, pure and true, with an empty volume attached.

Far different from blocking a 20 or 30 rd mag while retaining all the parts intended for 20 or 30.

 

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9 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

Has anyone been arrested  because of it? I haven't heard of any.

...hmmm..... not YET.....  that I am aware of.....

 

It will be an interesting test case for the poor SOB who may get collared.....

 

I hope he doesn't use the I read it on the internet defense.

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5 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

...hmmm..... not YET.....  that I am aware of.....It will be an interesting test case for the poor SOB who may get collared.....

I have seen plenty of standard capacity magazines, stocks that adjust, flash suppressors and folding furniture that I am sure the NJSP don't want to waste their time with unconstitutional, unnecessary, unenforceable regulations such as our gun laws.

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31 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

I have seen plenty of standard capacity magazines, stocks that adjust, flash suppressors and folding furniture that I am sure the NJSP don't want to waste their time with unconstitutional, unnecessary, unenforceable regulations such as our gun laws.

I dont disagree with what you have witnessed...I disagree somewhat with the balance of your assessment 

I hope I am dead wrong !!!

The person who, if someone gets jammed up, is fantasy thinking about unenforcement - I am sure we can find some sort of precedent to dispel that myth cant we?

 

Their job is to enforce the law, I am sure there is discretion , however that which is is applied is not known.  We only know those who got jammed up.....  and yes the silly unconstitutional unenforceable regulations, guess what.....were applied

 

 

For me...and me alone...YMMV..... it is not worth the risk to do anything other than to have 10 round mags in state at this time. 

 

Whatever money you need to spend...imo....is money well spent to prevent your potential incarceration .....

Whatever money you need to spend to love your current items out of state, is money well spent to prevent your potential incarceration......

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9 hours ago, JHZR2 said:

My discussion was only pertaining to the hexmag. I didn't mean to imply the entire thread.  

That was specifically because, since there is more than one way to skin a cat, the short spring allows a removable floorplate, in a hexmag, because the riser allows the spring to be supported at the correct level, for a spring of that length to operate with 10 or 15 rounds.  Removal of the riser would ruin the mag (at least without manufacturing a new one out of other acquired parts). The riser must be there, no more no less.  So it's a 10 round mag, pure and true, with an empty volume attached.

Regarding the Hexmags, you're right. The shorter spring along with the blocker only allows them to function as a 10 rounder. On that specific point, I agree.

I was coming from the different angle that these reduced cap mags aren't sold with epoxied or welded floorplates, so it's really easy to open, remove the existing spring/blocker and slide in a different spring. I guess it's that "Permanently modified" part of the law that I feel they don't meet.

But hey, I'm not a lawyer and just as confused on these "gray areas" as everyone else, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once. :)

 

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The law says "permanently altered". If a magazine is manufactured to be a 10 rounder, it is not modified, even if you can add an 11th, ie Glock 19.

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3 minutes ago, PK90 said:

The law says "permanently altered". If a magazine is manufactured to be a 10 rounder, it is not modified,

That's my question, in regards to the Hexmags, they were originally manufactured to be 30's, then "altered" to be a 15/30 or 10/30 with different parts and still have a removable floorplate. So, if you currently have a modified 15/30, slide off the floorplate and take the existing blocker and spring out, then slide in the 10 round blocker and spring, and slide the floorplate back on, what do you have?

 

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That's my question, in regards to the Hexmags, they were originally manufactured to be 30's, then "altered" to be a 15/30 or 10/30 with different parts and still have a removable floorplate.


They are manufactured and sold as a 10 rounder.

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4 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

For me...and me alone...YMMV..... it is not worth the risk to do anything other than to have 10 round mags in state at this time. 

What is worth the risk to you?

Just curious, as a risk to me is surrendering.

57 minutes ago, gunnarsport said:

YES you will, dont be childish. 10 rounds is plenty.

Define plenty

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So it seems like a rivet in the body, along with a second rivet in the base plate, would result in a magazine capable of holding only ten rounds, not capable of being disassembled, and would require deliberate effort with power tools to reverse. Seems to cover many of the bases noted above.

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4 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Their job is to enforce the law, I am sure there is discretion , however that which is is applied is not known.  We only know those who got jammed up.....  and yes the silly unconstitutional unenforceable regulations, guess what.....were applied

There's a big issue, the new magazine law is a Ex post facto law:

An ex post facto law  is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions that were committed, or relationships that existed, before the enactment of the law. In criminal law, it may criminalize actions that were legal when committed;

Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 (with respect to federal laws) and Article 1, Section 10 (with respect to state laws).

So, if your 15 round mags were legal when you bought them, they are still legal now, right?

 

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3 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

There's a big issue, the new magazine law is a Ex post facto law:

 

So, if your 15 round mags were legal when you bought them, they are still legal now, right?

 

We shall find out. I’m still going to the range. No issues last week.. didn’t get followed by black helicopters.. 

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Its worth it to just take 2 10 rd mags with you at the range after the 180 grace expires. The libs are in charge for now is it worth losing all your guns for a magazine pinch. All it takes is an over zealous cop or one who doesnt fully understand these new laws. Or how about someone spots you at the range firing more than 10. Sorry just no worth it for the few times a year i go to the range. Is all this likely to happen probably not but why not be safe we all have families and careers too much to lose if we get jammed up. 

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The assault weapons ban is an ex facto law too, that one has stood for 30 years now. I know we like to wish and hope for courts to save us but I doubt that will ever happen. Even the magazine injunction, if it somehow did win, would at best get us what? The ability to keep 15rd? NY ended up with 10 anyway.

CA and CO are bad examples as it allows people to keep "pre ban" magazines and lots of people were able to get "pre ban" magazines because you tell me how hard it is to buy an undated, unserialized product cash and simply say you've had it for X years.

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They are manufactured and sold as a 10 rounder.

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Bingo..... if they sell them as 15, then they are legal. If they sell them as 10, they are legal. All mags fall into that category. If you try making them into something they are not, they become illegal. Hexmag got the ok to create a 15 round mags. Midwest makes perm 15 rounders, they are legal. Any mag made and altered that is not perm, are illegal. Cant word it any other way. Btw, I read somewhere that rivets dont cut it. You drill them out, then they become a 30 again. The rivet removed, does not destroy the mag where as trying to undo pmags, would essentially destroy them.


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i strongly suspect all of you that keep saying "i will not comply" already have/are. if you own firearms here in this commie state legally, then you have/are complying.

 

I wouldn't bet on it.

 

I lived in free states and bought firearms then too. NJ laws now suck to the point I refuse to buy any under their laws unless it is with my FFL03.

 

 

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YES you will, dont be childish. 10 rounds is plenty.

 

Plenty for whom?

 

 

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I will buy some 10 rounders for the guns I take out of my house, no big deal.

Most matches I shoot in only allow us to load 10 rounds, some only 6.

My LARGE CAPACITY mags will be out of state (if need be) waiting for my, along with my Saiga-12 drums.

I think I shot my AR twice with the blocked 15 rounders. Now I have to get 10's I guess if I want to take it anywhere.

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7 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

What is worth the risk to you?

Just curious, as a risk to me is surrendering.

Define plenty

....resist.....  resist in a smart way.  

7 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

There's a big issue, the new magazine law is a Ex post facto law:

An ex post facto law  is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions that were committed, or relationships that existed, before the enactment of the law. In criminal law, it may criminalize actions that were legal when committed;

Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 (with respect to federal laws) and Article 1, Section 10 (with respect to state laws).

So, if your 15 round mags were legal when you bought them, they are still legal now, right?

 

I do not disagree with this....but till it is argued settled..you wanna be the test subject

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49 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

....resist.....  resist in a smart way. 

A smart way is donating to 2A groups that are filing lawsuits.  

Giving in now is allowing the left to reach for more.  No more from me.

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26 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

A smart way is donating to 2A groups that are filing lawsuits.  

Giving in now is allowing the left to reach for more.  No more from me.

I'm sorry but lawsuits aren't going to change anything. What do we have? A CCW suit that got dismissed, and a magazine injunction which, at BEST, will result in the ability to keep old 15 rounders, still have a 10 round limit on new mags, and still leave us unable to own the majority of semiautomatic rifles, shotguns, handguns and accessories.

Also there is currently no mounted challenge to the seizure-by-any-medical-professional bill which likely get expanded to include more and more job titles as time goes on. Where's the suits/injunction for that one? It's going to snag far more people than anythng else, but here we are, worried about what part of the magazine to epoxy.

I'm not trying to be a negative, trust me I wish NJ gun owners could have their Adam Sandler Big Daddy 3rd Act courtroom scene but the realist in me has to look at the cold hard facts. 

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i'm glad the lawsuits are being filed. never go down without a fight. but....from the history i've been seeing, the very best we can hope for is grandfathering. i don't think nj will be backed down on this. i pray i'm wrong.

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