Fixed AR magazine

[MartyZ 692]

I am not trying to start a compliance argument on this thread, I am not asking for "I will not comply responses" nor am I asking for my resolve to be questioned. But I need to ask this question.

If the AR magazine is fixed, and can not be removed without the use of power tools, can we then have an AR with all the evil features, or maybe even an AR pistol? I accidentally came across this device on the stag arms website as they are adding it to NY compliant rifles. 

https://crossarmory.com/shop/cross-armory-ar-fixed-mag/?nabe=4761000229470208:1&utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/

 

I would think that at the price point and complexity level, anyone currently living in NJ but plans to escape in the near future can use this device and top load with stripper clips while in NJ, and have a full featured rifle, and then just remove it once they are free.

 

 

 

[Zeke 5,504]

Law says detachable. But still MAYBE limited to 10 as it’s not tube fed.

My take

[MartyZ 692]

I don't care about 10 rounds at this time. I will live with it for a few more years if I have to. I'm talking about collapsible stock, FH, threaded barrel, etc... and even AR pistols. without detachable magazine we can have pistols over 50 oz. and barrel shroud.

[PK90 3,570]

IMHO, Perfectly legal. You'll need to pivot the upper to load it.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Interesting question

Technology defeats laws every time.

[MartyZ 692]

I just called the NJSP, spoke to a detective Furman (I think that was his name). He basically told me that if the locking mechanism can be removed with hand tools then its no good. But, if power tools are required to remove the loging mechanism then its GTG.

According to the manufacturer website, "De-installation requires power tools". I think the cap is aluminum and needs to be drilled out after installation. I wish however, that we can get an AG opinion on this product. How do we go about getting that?

 

 

[myhatinthering 462]

Lol... then all of our pin and weld would be illegal because hand tools can take them off

 damn cops damn cops can be so fucking stupid sometimes. Every time you call you will get a different answer from the njsp.

[mossburger 406]

This would be a great idea honestly. You could lock in a magazine and then use something like the product below to load it:

https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/ma-loader-for-ar15

We all know how things are going to go here in the next few years, so I think more people should start looking into stuff like this, rather than those atrocious and unsafe spur grips or monster man grips.

For people into 7.62x39 rifles, the SKS and vz 58 (Liberty model) are also great options. The vz 58 is internally and permanently locked and can have whatever features you want. 10 round strippers load it very easily. 

It's also quite easy to turn most stamped receiver AK-style rifles into a configuration like how the factory Saiga rifles came into the USA.  The linkage system is very simple and could be easily replicated. 

[MartyZ 692]

Another thought. with the new bills to reduce number of evil features to 1, this might be the only viable option.

[ChrisJM981 924]

https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/ma-lock 

This magazine lock is twisted until the head sheers off, making it permanent. 

Use with the side mag loader. I have both in anticipation of new legislation. 

[MartyZ 692]

12 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/ma-lock 

This magazine lock is twisted until the head sheers off, making it permanent. 

Use with the side mag loader. I have both in anticipation of new legislation. 

This also looks very promising.

[carl_g 568]

< sarcasm > If people start barraging the AG and SP with questions about workarounds for proposed bills, I am sure your representatives will be happy to work this and similar like devices into those new laws. They will greatly appreciate how helpful the 2A community is in order to get these laws right! < /sarcasm >

[MartyZ 692]

1 minute ago, carl_g said:

< sarcasm > If people start barraging the AG and SP with questions about workarounds for proposed bills, I am sure your representatives will be happy to work this and similar like devices into those new laws. They will greatly appreciate how helpful the 2A community is in order to get these laws right! < /sarcasm >

So when will they start incorporating the shockwave and other such devices into their bills? I'm sure they had more than a few requests for an opinion.

Also, it's not about new legislation but also about existing laws. If I can have an AR with a non-pinned FH, bayo lug, and adjustable stock by fixing my mag, I will just buy a bunch of side loaders and I'm gtg.

[Sniper 6,372]

25 minutes ago, carl_g said:

< sarcasm > If people start barraging the AG and SP with questions about workarounds for proposed bills, I am sure your representatives will be happy to work this and similar like devices into those new laws. They will greatly appreciate how helpful the 2A community is in order to get these laws right! < /sarcasm >

That's probably closer to the truth than sarcasm, unfortunately. We don't need to give them any more ammo.

[MartyZ 692]

7 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

That's probably closer to the truth than sarcasm, unfortunately. We don't need to give them any more ammo.

The question is how will they change the law? It says a semi-auto with detachable magazine. Are they going to spell out what detachable means? If my magazine is not detachable then that is it, how I make it detachable is up to me. Technically I can epoxy it into place, right?

I personally think that the paranoia gets out of hand sometimes.

[mossburger 406]

29 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

That's probably closer to the truth than sarcasm, unfortunately. We don't need to give them any more ammo.

About 9-10 years ago a bunch of FFL in NJ were selling a "US 1 Carbine" or some kind of name like that. Same thing as M1 Carbine but not called M1 Carbine which as we know is banned by name. The logic being that AR-15 is banned by name but XM-15 or whatever is fine as long as only 1 feature. 

Lots of people started calling NJSP "Daddy daddy can I pleeeease have the US 1 Rifle???? Please???"

Guess what, all of of a sudden they weren't for sale anymore!

So yeah people, stop calling. Detachable magazine means you can push a button or lever and it comes out of the rifle. If it has a damn sheared pin or the part is literally shaped in a way that the magazine doesn't come out, NO it's not detachable.

You wanna be paranoid? Here's something to be paranoid about. It only takes a couple minutes of work and a little piece of metal to make your semi-auto in a fully semi automatic if you catch my drift. Should everyone now fear the feds because you own an AR-15 and some tools?

Of course not. So stop worrying about stupid stuff.

[carl_g 568]

14 minutes ago, MartyZ said:

The question is how will they change the law? It says a semi-auto with detachable magazine. Are they going to spell out what detachable means? If my magazine is not detachable then that is it, how I make it detachable is up to me. Technically I can epoxy it into place, right?

I personally think that the paranoia gets out of hand sometimes.

Now you tread on the line of manufacturing a firearm by changing the properties of the said firearm. Some will agree, some won't.
your AR style rifle was manufactured to use a detachable magazine. By changing that are you manufacturing or no? I don't know the answer. I am sure opinions will vary.

 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

22 hours ago, PK90 said:

IMHO, Perfectly legal. You'll need to pivot the upper to load it.

one of those sideloaders wouldn't be legal for his application?

[carl_g 568]

5 minutes ago, mossburger said:

About 9-10 years ago a bunch of FFL in NJ were selling a "US 1 Carbine" or some kind of name like that. Same thing as M1 Carbine but not called M1 Carbine which as we know is banned by name.

Lots of people started calling NJSP "Daddy daddy can I pleeeease have the US 1 Rifle???? Please???"

Guess what, all of of a sudden they weren't for sale anymore!

So yeah people, stop calling. Detachable magazine means you can push a button or lever and it comes out of the rifle. If it has a damn sheared pin or the part is literally shaped in a way that the magazine doesn't come out, NO it's not detachable.

You wanna be paranoid? Here's something to be paranoid about. It only takes a couple minutes of work and a little piece of metal to make your semi-auto in a fully semi automatic if you catch my drift. Should everyone now fear the feds because you own an AR-15 and some tools?

Of course not. So stop worrying about stupid stuff.

yep look at AR pistol braces... millions of concerned gun owners wrote the ATF basically asking if they shouldered the "pistol" with a brace and not pay the 200 dollar tax stamp would they get into trouble... Guess what happened next. It's not paranoia, its real.

[MartyZ 692]

2 minutes ago, carl_g said:

Now you tread on the line of manufacturing a firearm by changing the properties of the said firearm. Some will agree, some won't.
your AR style rifle was manufactured to use a detachable magazine. By changing that are you manufacturing or no? I don't know the answer. I am sure opinions will vary.

 

I would say the same about flash hiders, and bayo lugs. The AR15 WAS designed with flash hiders and bayo lugs in mind, so removing them could also be construed as manufacturing. All I am saying is that we got an AG letter for Hornady Critical Defense ammo, we got an AG letter for the shockwave and Tac-14. So why, all of a sudden, would it be detrimental to get a similar letter for fixed AR mags?

[carl_g 568]

1 minute ago, MartyZ said:

I would say the same about flash hiders, and bayo lugs. The AR15 WAS designed with flash hiders and bayo lugs in mind, so removing them could also be construed as manufacturing. All I am saying is that we got an AG letter for Hornady Critical Defense ammo, we got an AG letter for the shockwave and Tac-14. So why, all of a sudden, would it be detrimental to get a similar letter for fixed AR mags?

It's a different, anti-gun, AG appointed by Murphy. That's why.

[PK90 3,570]

22 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

one of those sideloaders wouldn't be legal for his application?

I posted that before the sideloader post. 

[Theron 5]

Which 10 round magazine to fix in place durability wise?

[mossburger 406]

1 hour ago, Theron said:

Which 10 round magazine to fix in place durability wise?

I'd say a 10 round sized steel (not a pinned 30) for space saving and durability reasons. That way you can also still service the magazine by undoing the floorplate. 

[MartyZ 692]

Either 10 round steel or pmag. I agree about no restricted mags that can't be taken apart for servicing.

I just thought of something else, you would need this on all your lowers even if you have 1 upper with "evil" features to avoid "constructive intent"

[kman 56]

6 hours ago, MartyZ said:

I would say the same about flash hiders, and bayo lugs. The AR15 WAS designed with flash hiders and bayo lugs in mind, so removing them could also be construed as manufacturing. All I am saying is that we got an AG letter for Hornady Critical Defense ammo, we got an AG letter for the shockwave and Tac-14. So why, all of a sudden, would it be detrimental to get a similar letter for fixed AR mags?

An AG letter for Hornady Critical Defense ammo?  Where would I find that?

[GRIZ 3,369]

7 hours ago, MartyZ said:

I would say the same about flash hiders, and bayo lugs. The AR15 WAS designed with flash hiders and bayo lugs in mind, so removing them could also be construed as manufacturing. All I am saying is that we got an AG letter for Hornady Critical Defense ammo, we got an AG letter for the shockwave and Tac-14. So why, all of a sudden, would it be detrimental to get a similar letter for fixed AR mags?

Because they haven't written the law yet.  No one can give you guidance on a law that doesn't exist.

[MartyZ 692]

Just now, GRIZ said:

Because they haven't written the law yet.  No one can give you guidance on a law that doesn't exist.

What do you mean they haven't written the law yet? It was written in 1990, "a semi-automatic rifle with A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE and two of the following features", current NJ AWB.

[JHZR2 56]

Looks similar to the AR Magblock.  

AR Magblock claims the following:

 

AR MAGLOCK allows California AR-15 owners to comply with existing fixed magazine laws, thus avoiding Department of Justice registration. 

AR MAGLOCK engages the magazine so it stays “fixed” in the firearm until the action is disassembled, complying with California SB 880 & AB 1135, and Department of Justice regulations.

It is our reasonable belief the AR MAGLOCK complies with New York NY SAFE , Connecticut, Maryland, New Jersey and other states (and other local municipalities such as Cook County Illinois) detachable magazine laws based on our in depth analysis of these laws and regulations.

In an effort to address some consumers concerns related to our website statement “potentiality complaint”… “Potentially compliant” does NOT refer to California as it IS compliant within this state, but it does refer to other states and municipalities with detachable magazine restrictions. Locations such as Cook County IL have ordinances that make our product potentially compliant also, but we leave it to the end consumer to make that judgement based on their knowledge of their local laws and regulations. We can’t be expected to know all of the regulations in every place that the AR MAGLOCK can be used.

Additionally, at a minimum the AR MAGLOCK being installed on your firearm demonstrates to law enforcement that you are making a good faith effort to comply with the vague legislation. See our legal disclaimer and terms of use for additional information.

 

https://www.armaglock2.com/

[MartyZ 692]

I don't think maglock qualifies because CA law states magazine can be removed by disassembling the action. NJ law simply states detachable magazine. I'm not a lawyer but I would assume tgat means detachable in any way other then using tools. And as I mentioned earlier, according to my call to NJSP, that means power tools. The way I see it, its the same as a permanently fixed stock or permanently blocked magazine