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runcibleman

NJ state troopers attempt gun confiscation because man's son criticizes school security weakness?

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I take everything I hear on the Internet with a grain of salt. That said... if this story is true, this is exactly the kind of overreach I would expect from these new snitchy, gestapo-like "red flag" laws. They are inherently problematic --- rooted in hearsay --- and there WILL be abuses. I'll be interested to see what we find out about this! :angry:

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I'm not at all surprised. Having read the newly published (YESTERDAY) Chapter Laws, the 2 that are the new RED FLAG laws are pretty loose, meaning than your guns, ammo, and all your reloading components can be taken AND DESTROYED for pretty much any reason that falls within the very broad conditions set in these new laws. And there is no recourse for the gun owner. And no Due Process. Hearsay - yeah that's fine.  Lies - yeah, that works too. Where is ANJRPC and NJ2AS with their requests for injunction on THESE laws????????

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Chapter 34 took effect as soon as Gov. Gopher signed it.

Chapter 35 has a delayed effective date, but not really. Here it is. Decide for yourself if the State can enforce it on Day 1:

"This act shall take effect on the first day of the fifteenth month next following enactment, but the Attorney General and the Administrative Director of the Courts may take any anticipatory action as shall be necessary to effectuate the purposes of this act."

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3 hours ago, NJGF said:

Do you have a link for this?

Sorry I was off bit a bit. It's about 35k as of 2014. 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/nyregion/mental-reports-put-34500-on-new-yorks-no-guns-list.html

Firearms seizures due to the red flag law are very common. There are hundreds of stories like the OP including where they just make a mistake in the database, come take your guns and never even say sorry.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.newyorkupstate.com/news/2017/07/deputies_confiscate_a_cny_veterans_guns_they_were_wrong_what_happened.amp

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I am working on this case now.  It's real & I've reached-out to the guy in the story.  No details YET, and I'm going to conduct a telephone interview & ask what I CAN release.  Stay tuned folks!

Rosey

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This makes me very scared. My late father (BA WWII vet) would never relinquish his firearms, even to a game warden once.  So if there's an attempted seizure and the target some one REALLY opposed there could be a problem.

Where are the "Oath Keepers"?

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4 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

I am working on this case now.  It's real & I've reached-out to the guy in the story.  No details YET, and I'm going to conduct a telephone interview & ask what I CAN release.  Stay tuned folks!

Rosey

Crazy situation...

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Is that Hamilton state police in Mercer or Burlington county?  The school psychiatric clearances have been happening for a while already, at least in Hunterdon county.  I'm sadly not surprised that police and schools will try to use these out of context situations to get the guns.

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On 7/3/2018 at 10:26 PM, njJoniGuy said:

Where is ANJRPC and NJ2AS with their requests for injunction on THESE laws????????

I would imagine that ANJRPC filed for an injunction on the mag ban because there are hundreds of thousands of people who are immediately impacted by the passage of that law. So many people immediately impacted, both legally and financially, makes an injuction possible. The red flag laws are more difficult to file an injuction for, or even file a lawsuit against at this time, since virtually no one has been impacted by the law until now. If I am not mistaken, they can’t even file suit until someone is adversely affected by the law, but it sounds like this could change that. 

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It is a flaw in our legal system, in that a law or ordinance can't be challenged in court until someone is affected/afflicted by its application.  Said flaw can be used in a sinister fashion, in that it can be on the books for decades before challenged, since it's never been enforced, and said time can be used as justification of its legitimacy.

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44 minutes ago, Persona non grata said:

The red flag laws are more difficult to file an injuction for, or even file a lawsuit against at this time, since virtually no one has been impacted by the law until now. If I am not mistaken, they can’t even file suit until someone is adversely affected by the law, but it sounds like this could change that. 

This was discussed on Gunforhire Radio either this or last week, I forget which. Someone had to get hosed by the system before they could challenge it. That didn't take long....

 

@gunforhire

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22 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

I am working on this case now.  It's real & I've reached-out to the guy in the story.  No details YET, and I'm going to conduct a telephone interview & ask what I CAN release.  Stay tuned folks!

Rosey

Here's the results of today's telephone interview with 1st Cavalry disabled Vet Len Cottrell:

KID's CHAT SENDS NJ TROOPERS TO GET DAD's GUNS!
VET's FAMILY INTERROGATED FOR HOURS; KID PUKES!
by Black Wire Media Thursday July 5, 2018 www.cnjfo.com

Disabled Vet Len Cottrell got a call while working at 9:30pm on Thursday June 14th from his wife. Their lives were changed FOREVER! Their 13 year old son, having watched constant news media coverage of the Parkland, Fl school shooting and having recently gone through a practice "LOCKDOWN", had a conversation in school with another student about how their school lacked security & was therefore a "soft target". This "lockdown" was a joke as the window treatments were never closed and the children were allowed to look out the windows during the drill! This educational chat between middle school students was overheard by a third student, and that student went home to tell his mom about what he (thought) he'd heard. She called the school, the school called the NJ State Police Barracks near their home and a pair of State Troopers were sent to the Cottrell residence TO GET THE GUNS!

At 9:30pm the investigation started. Once Mr. Cottrell got home, the Troopers informed him that they were told to make him turn-over his firearms TO THEM. "They already knew about my Glock 21, but they didn't know about my 12 ga. shotgun I use for hunting. They wanted all my guns. They got my boy so upset during the three hour long "interview" that he threw-up & was visibly shaking, thinking he'd be taken-away to jail! They had no warrant!"---Len Cottrell.

After first waking his retired parents up to make sure they were dressed, Cottrell somehow held his ground and convinced the State Troopers to allow him to transport his firearms to his parents residence for safekeeping. The Troopers checked with the Barracks for an okay and then followed Cottrell from his residence to his parents place in eastern Ocean Co. at 1:00 am!

Cottrell's 13 year old boy received no verbal or written write-up about the incident, although he wasn't allowed to participate in his school's graduation last month.

The Nappen Law firm has been contacted and a Go Fund Me page has been set-up by CNJFO Trustee Dan Grdovic, a 20 year friend of Cottrell. Here's the link to help this family of modest means: https://www.gofundme.com/cottrell-family-legal-defense-fund . Please consider donating!

Where this is all going, no one knows. The new overreaching law allowing this to happen to a disabled 1st Cavalry combat vet & his family was just signed by NJ Governor Murphy! No charges have been filed against the boy YET. The firearms remain at Gunsitters in Whippany, NJ. per Nappen's suggestion. As we all know, once firearms are CONFISCATED, it's a terrible hell to get them back and failure to do so results in the owner being declared a "PROHIBITED PERSON" that's not ever allowed to own firearms anywhere in the country! Since the Police didn't confiscate them at least Cottrell needn't worry about THAT!

Feel-good laws have CONSEQUENCES! Will YOU be next? Please, if you can, help the Cottrells! Then please consider JOINING NJ's busiest Second Amendment group of dedicated FIGHTERS & NEWSBREAKERS! Join HERE: www.cnjfo.com/join-us . Thanks in advance from all of us!

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This makes me very angry. This is just a step away from the sort of communist era legal system where hearsay was grounds for arresting people that my parents experienced in their childhoods. Now the same sort of thing is being introduced in the alleged land of the free?

There should be federal standards to overrule out of control communist states like New Jersey on issues like this. As much of a states rights idealist that I am, and as often as I argued against the late Justice Scalia's federalist line of reasoning, laws like this need to be struck down on federal bases as unconstitutional.

And of course the cowardly thugs they hire these days at the state police actually would've seized the man's guns had he not had the presence of mind to take alternative steps. I hope the school administrators and the false accuser get sued into oblivion. False accusations should be punishable by hard time in state pen.

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@Smokin .50 --- I hope you and associated parties can get enough traction with this story to get it picked up nationally (Fox News being the usual suspect, though I'd love to see it go even broader). Fingers crossed! This is exactly the kind of case to show how easily these red flag laws can be abused. If everything reported is true, here this kid was expressing "common sense" about the school's security failings, yet that was enough to get him (and his household) pegged as potential troublemakers. Wow. Talk about a serious and egregious overreach. 

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3 minutes ago, runcibleman said:

This makes me very angry. This is just a step away from the sort of communist era legal system where hearsay was grounds for arresting people that my parents experienced in their childhoods. Now the same sort of thing is being introduced in the alleged land of the free? There should be federal standards to overrule out of control communist states like New Jersey on issues like this. As much as of a states rights idealist that I am, and as often as I argued against the late Justice Scalia's federal line of reasoning, laws like this needs to be struck down on federal bases as unconstitutional. And of course the cowardly thugs they hire these days at the state police actually would've seized the man's guns had he not had the presence of mind to take alternative steps. I hope the school administrators and the false accuser get sued into oblivion. False accusations should be punishable by hard time in state pen.

That's just it, there isn't a "False Accuser", just a 13 year old classmate that overheard a piece of a chat between two other classmates.  It's like the game "telephone" in grade school:  Kid #1 tells a story to #2 & so on.  By the time kid #20 gets the same story, space aliens are landing & taking hostages!  Who are you gonna prosecute?  The 13 yr old kid?  Good luck with that!  The kid's mother that got the story from her 13 yr old & merely called the school as a "Concerned Parent"?  NOPE!  How about the school administrators that BY LAW NOW HAVE TO NOTIFY THE PO-PO?  NOPE!  Can't fault them either, cause it's a LAW that they have to report it w/ the new "Zero Tolerance" BS!

UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES RESULT FROM FEEL-GOOD LAWS & this is a prime example!

Rosey

P.S.:  Hope to see your application in SOON :) 

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5 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

@Smokin .50 --- I hope you and associated parties can get enough traction with this story to get it picked up nationally (Fox News being the usual suspect, though I'd love to see it go even broader). Fingers crossed! This is exactly the kind of case to show how easily these red flag laws can be abused. If everything reported is true, here this kid was expressing "common sense" about the school's security failings, yet that was enough to get him (and his household) begged as potential troublemakers. Wow. Talk about a serious and egregious overreach. 

Since I wrote & released the story a little over an hour ago on Facebook, we're approaching 4,500 reached and well over 100 shares of the story (almost half by me to all of my gun pages that I post to all over the region).  I've also written an email to Scott Bach & Dan Schmutter from ANJRPC to notify them of the story & that I vetted the disabled vet.  I'm hoping they can also get something accomplished for the family.  As always, my name is nowhere near this, for I seek no glory :) 

On a lighter note, have you considered letting me use your story on your Women On Target trip to Lehigh?  I can use a fake name of your choosing.  We already have one guy that calls himself "Kilroy was Here", lol!

Rosey

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2 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

Since I wrote & released the story a little over an hour ago on Facebook, we're approaching 4,500 reached and well over 100 shares of the story (almost half by me to all of my gun pages that I post to all over the region).  I've also written an email to Scott Bach & Dan Schmutter from ANJRPC to notify them of the story & that I vetted the disabled vet.  I'm hoping they can also get something accomplished for the family.  As always, my name is nowhere near this, for I seek no glory :) 

On a lighter note, have you considered letting me use your story on your Women On Target trip to Lehigh?  I can use a fake name of your choosing.  We already have one guy that calls himself "Kilroy was Here", lol!

Rosey

Good, I love it! And for all the bitching of 2A orgs squabbling... I see the opposite here.. full cooperation as it should be!

(As for the other issue... seriously? You think it will help? Hey, it's not really an article but if you think it will help get an extra person or 2 there, feel free to use -  you may even edit it as you see fit to fit your format. Hell, as a freelancer, I lost any "writer's ego" a long, long time ago, LOL. And I like my anonymity - so just use Mrs. Peel as my pen name (or nom de guerre as it were)! LOL.

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While I'm not inclined to defame certain people... my kid when he entered 2nd grade, was asked to tell a fictional story the first day of class.  As some of you know, who've met my kid, he's a talker and a pretty sharp little guy, so he rolls off an apparently too believable tale about how a bear broke into our house through the sliding glass door, chased us upstairs, hand had us trapped in our master bedroom.  I apparently chased off said bear with a chair (not sure where I got one from, but that's irrelevant.)  His description was apparently too real for some of the "adults", and after retelling it to multiple adults WITHOUT FLUBBING IT, answering multiple questions with great and believable detail, I and the wife received seperate phone calls from the principal, wanting to make sure everything was OK at the house, since she couldn't find any police reports about the incident!   Thank god it went to voicemail, as I now have audio proof that this occurred.  My point is... adults can be pretty gullible and stupid.

Also, the fact the SP apparently let him transport his guns to a family member's house, is highly suspicious.  There's a whole lot of smellin' going on.

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Its incredible how our Constitutional protected rights get completely trampled by the left. These "Red Flag" law or ERPOs as they call them are complete bs if you ask me. What happened to the right of Due Process?  These idiots better pay close attention to history...

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1 minute ago, RobCo said:

Its incredible how our Constitutional protected rights get completely trampled by the left. These "Red Flag" law or ERPOs as they call them are complete bs if you ask me. What happened to the right of Due Process?  These idiots better pay close attention to history...

Due process is an important point. 

Im curious @Smokin .50 what are the charges?

i suspect none. Then it’s harassment via the concerned parent of the 3rd child. It’s adult swatting. We knew this was ripe for abuse. 

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