M4BGRINGO

Muzzle Brakes

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Two questions here. I did some research and it seems that if a semi auto rifle does not have a pistol grip, and the only "evil" feature is a barrel that is threaded for a brake, it is legal in NJ. Now, does a brake for this type of rifle need to be pinned/welded? Putting a brake on a Ruger PC9 and curious if I need to weld the holes I made for the pins. This is no high-end gun so I will TIG the holes shut if I need to. My AR was done by a professional, and it looks perfect!

Second question. How about a semi auto shotgun? Again, no "evil" features except for a threaded barrel end for a brake. Well, it does have a removable magazine if that is considered "evil". I did put a brake on this gun but never pinned or welded it. Can't find any laws regarding shotguns and muzzle brakes. I will pin and weld it if I need to due to a law I can't find. Or, if it would just be safer to do so in case I am found with it at a range and someone isn't sure what the law actually states. Not looking for trouble. I have used it several times in competition and no one every said anything about the brake, except it makes the gun look ridiculously big! I have some drums for it, but they are out of state waiting for me to visit someday. :)

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No need to pin the brake on the PC9.  

For semi-auto shotguns, the only restrictions are 6 round capacity (detachable mags are not an evil feature), and no Pistol Grip or Folding Stock.  Can have a bayonet/evil flash hider thingy/shoulder thing that goes up/etc.

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I have PC Carbine as well and saw different opinions on putting the muzzle break on it. Some say it helps with muzzle raise, while others say that for 9mm in 16 inch barrel there is not enough gases to make a difference. So the muzzle break would not be efficient at all.

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Hmmmm. Well, the brake is on the PC9 so it shall stay there. I want to practice with the TIG doing something really small so I will go ahead and weld the holes shut.

I will leave the Saiga alone then if that brake doesn't need to be pinned/welded.

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Before you go pinning the muzzle brakes....

Don't.....

You don't HAVE to pin the brake on the PC9, so why bother? A flash hider is much more useful because a 9mm rifle isn't kicking to begin with. But even if you want to keep a brake on it, just leave it normal so you can always change your mind is try a different brake.

Plenty of scrap metal to practice welding on. Maybe make some cool lawn ornaments instead?

As for the Saiga, that thing is a collector's item now. They got banned from import ~2012 and the prices surged. Don't bubba it up or damage it IMO, not worth it. Seriously check out the prices for an unmolested Saiga these days.

If you DO want to make that S-12 run smooth as butter, you can look into having the gas ports expanded, the action polished, and the rear trunion padded. There are some gunsmiths (and Bubbas) doing this work and have competition guns that just spit Walmart birdshot all day without issue, really nice work if you're looking to do anything to an S-12. 

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1 hour ago, mossburger said:

Before you go pinning the muzzle brakes....

Don't.....

You don't HAVE to pin the brake on the PC9, so why bother? A flash hider is much more useful because a 9mm rifle isn't kicking to begin with.

But it shouldn't be flashing, either, with pistol ammo fired from a 16" barrel.   So I don't know what's useful here.   Maybe thread on a bayonet?   :-)

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IMO a 9mm carbine doesn't need a flash surpressor or muzzle brake.

16 in barrel pretty much completes powder burning so little muzzle flash.

9mm recoil in a gun that weighs almost 7 pounds is really minimal.

It's your gun. Do what you want.  JMO.

 

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PC9 is a typical Ruger beast. Heavy for its size.  Get an aftermarket 10/22 case for it (see Amazon), and shoot it.  No brake required.  Slap an RDS on it and your good out to 100 meters easily.

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PC9 is a typical Ruger beast. Heavy for its size.  Get an aftermarket 10/22 case for it (see Amazon), and shoot it.  No brake required.  Slap an RDS on it and your good out to 100 meters easily.
I can't agree more, I took it to the 100 yard lane in Cherry Ridge, was almost boring, could hear the ding every round :).
Also tried it on 10-20 yards with short - fast left-to-right, up and down transitions. Very pleased with the rifle.

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On 7/5/2018 at 11:42 AM, Matroskin said:

Some say it helps with muzzle raise, while others say that for 9mm in 16 inch barrel there is not enough gases to make a difference.

Muzzle devices are designed around three basic properties.  Flash suppression (flash hider), recoil mitigation (brake) and muzzle rise control (compensator).

Handgun powder burns at a much faster rate than rifle powder does.  Most, if not all of the powder is burnt by the time the gasses reach 10 or 12 inches down the barrel.  So, in this instance, you do not need flash suppression in a 16" barrel.  The recoil  of a 9mm carbine is very mild, so you do not really need a brake.  The one and only device that has any useful purpose on a 9mm carbine is a compensator to help keep that muzzle down for fast followup shots.

The muzzle devices on the M16A1 and A2 are actually compensators first and have a secondary function of flash suppression.  According to some old DOD documents I happened to come across, outlining the mil-spec for the M16A1, the muzzle device is listed as a compensator, with no mention of flash suppression at all.  That's because the three prong "weed catcher" and the "birdcage" do not actually suppress the flash.  Some of the gasses (flash) are ported to the sides to disperse what would otherwise be one big night vision blinding fireball. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

Some of the gasses (flash) are ported to the sides to disperse what would otherwise be one big night vision blinding fireball. 

 

 

This is the primary purpose of a flash surpressor on a military firearm.  Most military designs since the 60s also have a compensator function.  It is also a common misconception of those who write "assault weapon" laws.  You are never going to surpress muzzle flash enough to hide the muzzle flash from whoever you might be shooting at.  You can significantly reduce the flash to help the shooter keep their night vision.

I've shot quite a few firearms under dim light conditions.  Here are some of my observations.

I have a "Tanker" Garand in 7.62 NATO.  It throws a huge fireball.  I can imagine what it would be like if it were 30-06 with more powder. The muzzle flash was one of the reasons the "Tanker" was never adopted.  There was a rather long T37 5 prong surpressor made for the M1 Garand.  It never became a general issue item.  You can't get a bayonet on a Garand with the  T37 on it.  It also added  several inches on what was already a full size rifle.  It was used on sniper versions of the Garand.

An AR with nothing on the muzzle throws a decent fireball.  The 3 prong breaks this this down to 3 smaller flashes.  The birdcage produces 5 even smaller, less intense flashes.  

The 5 prong was adopted because it did the job better.  I never saw the "weedcatcher" as much of a problem.  Another, not officially publicized, reason for getting rid of the 3 prong is it was often used as a wirecutter.  Infantrymen do not like to carry excess weight. They don't have a lot of use for wirecutters.  The 3 prong was used to cut the wire holding together a case of C Rations on a regular basis.  This could result in the surpressor loosening up over time. It would loosen to the point of falling off.

BTW, if you're looking for minimal muzzle flash in a 9mm (handgun or carbine) use 147 gr or WW Silvertip 115 gr.  Yes, I know Silvertip has a bad rap from the Miami FBI shootout.  It did what it was designed to do.  Rapid expansion to.minimize penetration. It penetrates 11 inches in ballistic gel.  That's how i guess the FBI came up with 12" as the Silvertip stopped 1" from the bad guy's heart. That's better than what a lot of people carry for SD.  JMO

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Got the Ruger to use for Knockdown Steel. It is much heavier than my trusty CX4 though. I put the brake on it just to see if it would help stay on target better, figured it couldn't hurt. It may be the wrong tool for the job though. It really needs a slide release. May wind up just being a plinker. I ran it the other night and did not notice the brake do anything for it.

I have not followed the Saiga-12 pricing. I do have a second one that is 100% stock and very few rounds though it. I guess I will just leave it in the safe. The other one is pretty molested, again, just use it for Knockdown Steel.

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