Dog Training - Methods, How You Did It, Etc

[gleninjersey 2,139]

I've had family dogs growing up as a child to young adult.  My father mostly trained the first two.  German Sheperd and second was large muttt (Black Lab, Huskie, Retriever and German Sheperd mix)  The last one was a neurotic terrier mix and was never really trained properly.  

Have just gotten my own rescue dog. One to one and a half year old Poodle Schnauzer mix. My wife never had pets growing up.  A lot has changed since my family had dogs.  Looking for opinions and methods on how to train a family dog.

Little background.  We've only had him for four days now.  I realize he's been through A LOT.  He was found roaming around and kept by a woman for I don't know how long.  She gave him up to Animal Control.  The rescue foster thinks it was probably an older woman who couldn't handle the needs of a young dog.  The pound had him after that for about 3-4 weeks.  Spayed, shots, etc.  Then a rescue group took him (Rawhide Rescue in Warren) took him in and fostered him for one and a half week.  Now he's with us.

I know training shouldn't be foremost concern right now  That would be forming good bonds with him and my family and making him comfortable.  A little training here and there but not an emphasis on it.  He seems to have attached himself to me.  Probably because I'm the one walking him, spending most time with him and doing light training with him.

He's already house broken.  He's woke me in morning telling me, "Hey mister, unless you want a hot, steaming pile of dog poo on your carpet we better get outside soon!" He also somewhat knows sit.  

We are walking him 5-6 times a day right now (because I'm off work). His worst habits are jumping up on you, play biting and pulling hard and constantly while on his walks.  Other than that he's pretty well behaved.

I like watching and learning through YouTube videos.  I woupd like to train him myself.  I've watched a few different dog trainers and seem to like Insideout Dog Training.  They don't use treats to train and have videos specifically on rescue dogs.  

I know there are severral dog owners here.  Looking for some input.  So how did you train your dog? What method did you use (treats, no treats, dominace training, etc) Would you consider them well behaved / trained.  How long did it take?  If you used a trainer did you like them? 

 

 

[Zeke 5,504]

Reward good behavior.

stern voice or non abusing physical correction. 

Idk,, bud you got onion layers on this one.. be steadfast and patient 

also, play. It can’t all be work.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Oh, I'm well aware it it takes time.  I've incorporated play a little with playing tug of war (release) and tossing toys around the house (come and fetch).  Have also tried to lessen his pulling on the leash slowly.  That's not really working to well but not a major concern right now.  Everything is new to him (scents, sights, smells, noises). 

I'm a big fan of positive praise for reward.  I was thinking of using treats but don't want to condition him to expect a treat every time he does something I ask him.

He seems to be responding to what I've been doing.  Just looking for others input and success stories.

 

[Greenday 323]

When I got my dog, she had severe separation anxiety. But she's learned tricks so fast. Sit, stay, down, come, crawl, mongoose, both paws, wave with both paws, heel, leave it.

Treats are good for initially teaching them. I've also found that ridiculous praise can work. They want you to be happy and it makes them happy when they make you happy. It's all about consistency.

With my sister's pit, he'd jump but we'd just completely ignore him until he stops. Then, once he relaxes, we'd interact with him. This way he'd learn he wouldn't get attention if he was being obnoxious.

For pulling on the leash, the way I was taught which kinda worked (hounds can only be reigned in so much) was if they start pulling, to stop walking and force them to reverse direction. This way they learn to go where you want to go. Was a huge pain in the butt.

Good luck with your pup! They can be stressful but you can't beat that unconditional love.

[Sniper 6,372]

5 hours ago, gleninjersey said:

I'm a big fan of positive praise for reward.  I was thinking of using treats but don't want to condition him to expect a treat every time he does something I ask him.

Wow, lots to touch on in your first post. I've been in major training with my puppy, who's just coming up on one year with us. Trying to do the right thing and teach good behaviors over bad ones, and not let any bad ones even get allowed. It's been a completely different experience, and I've had dogs all my life.

Regarding treats, I was on the fence about that too, didn't want him to just respond to food, and many times it took a lot longer for him to get what I wanted him to do. In hindsight, using rewards when teaching new cues is the way to go in the beginning, then fade the lure once he learns. I didn't want my guy accustomed to always getting a reward, and just using praise, but that has slowed progression on some areas.

One big issue you need to establish, an since you don't know what all he's been through, YOU need to set the tone and be the ALPHA in the family. There can never be a question in the house who's in charge.... NEVER, or the dog will look for any crack in the lining and take advantage.

Another thing, every time you call him to you it needs to feel like a positive experience for him, even if he's done something wrong. Calling him and when he comes, then repremanding him for something bad sends mixed messages, and the next time he'll try and guess, if he should come or not listen.

Also, everyone in the family has to be consistent in all cues and commands, and all use the same words, hand signals, tone, etc., so the dog can learn to be consistent in his response. If everyone says something different for "sit". "come", "down", etc., it will confuse him.

 

[Zeke 5,504]

14 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

Oh, I'm well aware it it takes time.  I've incorporated play a little with playing tug of war (release) and tossing toys around the house (come and fetch).  Have also tried to lessen his pulling on the leash slowly.  That's not really working to well but not a major concern right now.  Everything is new to him (scents, sights, smells, noises). 

I'm a big fan of positive praise for reward.  I was thinking of using treats but don't want to condition him to expect a treat every time he does something I ask him.

He seems to be responding to what I've been doing.  Just looking for others input and success stories.

 

Most jus use regular food.. canines will gorge. So regular food works good as treats. But praise or play works also. Dogs are smert 

[Sniper 6,372]

1 hour ago, gleninjersey said:

We are walking him 5-6 times a day right now (because I'm off work). His worst habits are jumping up on you, play biting and pulling hard and constantly while on his walks.

Exercising and burning out some of the energy is always good. Specially before trying to work on training.

Regarding jumping, when he does that, quickly turn your back and ignore him, if he runs around to face you to try again, quickly reverse again. Hopefully he'll get the point that jumping gets the cold shoulder and no interaction.

Biting was a biggie with my puppy going through the teething stage. What we did when he nipped was to yell "ouch" really loud, then immediately pick up your hands and totally ignore him. (this is basically what his mother would do if he bit to hard when a puppy, she'd yelp and immediately leave) He learned if he nipped, interaction with us came to a skreeching halt.

The pulling part, we're still working on that too......

[Zeke 5,504]

2 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Exercising and burning out some of the energy is always good. Specially before trying to work on training.

Regarding jumping, when he does that, quickly turn your back and ignore him, if he runs around to face you to try again, quickly reverse again. Hopefully he'll get the point that jumping gets the cold shoulder and no interaction.

Biting was a biggie with my puppy going through the teething stage. What we did when he nipped was to yell "ouch" really loud, then immediately pick up your hands and totally ignore him. (this is basically what his mother would do if he bit to hard when a puppy, she'd yelp and immediately leave) He learned if he nipped, interaction with us came to a skreeching halt.

The pulling part, we're still working on that too......

Liked ouch

jumping use a knee. Not a Bruce Lee knee. But an elevated knee 

[Sniper 6,372]

The knee can work, but it's not usually the first option because it can hurt the dog doing it by the wrong person, plus physical retaliation usually isn't the best teacher.

 

[gleninjersey 2,139]

1 hour ago, Sniper22 said:

One big issue you need to establish, an since you don't know what all he's been through, YOU need to set the tone and be the ALPHA in the family. There can never be a question in the house who's in charge.... NEVER, or the dog will look for any crack in the lining and take advantage.

I've heard varying opinions on this.  One way agrees with what you are saying and  I used to believe it.  The other, that dogs have been breed and domisticated for so long long now that there is little to any wild animal left in them.  They have been breed for hundreds, if not thouasands, of years now to be domistic animals and to want to please us.  As Greenday said, "They want you to be happy and it makes them happy when they make you happy."

I'm slightly torn on this issue.  At times i see the need to let him know "who the boss is".  But at other times I wonder if I'm being impatient or angry that he isn't getting it or understanding.  Not that I'm being hurtful but rather stern.  Raising my voice and putting some bass in it.

[Zeke 5,504]

3 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

I've heard varying opinions on this.  One way agrees with what you are saying and  I used to believe it.  The other, that dogs have been breed and domisticated for so long long now that there is little to any wild animal left in them.  They have been breed for hundreds, if not thouasands, of years now to be domistic animals and to want to please us.  As Greenday said, "They want you to be happy and it makes them happy when they make you happy."

I'm slightly torn on this issue.  At times i see the need to let him know "who the boss is".  But at other times I wonder if I'm being impatient or angry that he isn't getting it or understanding.  Not that I'm being hurtful but rather stern.  Raising my voice and putting some bass in it.

Think of if it always as a partnership.

that being said; doesn’t mean you’re not the alpha partner. But good luck being a lone partner , if that makes any sense 

[NJSigfan 218]

2 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

 

Also, everyone in the family has to be consistent in all cues and commands, and all use the same words, hand signals, tone, etc., so the dog can learn to be consistent in his response. If everyone say something different for "sit". "come", "down", etc., it will confuse him.

 

Can’t agree with this more!  Making sure the whole family use the same words and hand signals will make training life so much easier.  

Whether or not to use treats during training seems to be a matter of preference.  We’ve been told to use and not use.  When we had our rottie the trainer encourage the use of kibble in the beginning.  Once the command was learned, we weaned off to “clicker” queues and then to Uber amounts of praise.  We did the same technique with our current pup (lab, wolfhound mix) and she picked up the hand queues super fast and will come from one end of the yard solely on a clicker noise.

most of all go slow and be consistent.  Using the same words and gestures will ensure the pup l earns and responds in the same way.

 

[Sniper 6,372]

3 hours ago, gleninjersey said:

The other, that dogs have been breed and domisticated for so long long now that there is little to any wild animal left in them.  They have been breed for hundreds, if not thouasands, of years now to be domistic animals and to want to please us. 

That's true, for the most part, they want to make us happy and please us.

But, dogs are pack animals and there is usually a leader of the pack. My point was, YOU have to be that leader at all times, he should never think he has the upper hand. That doesn't mean you have to be a drill sergeant 24/7 or be mean to him, but he has to know he follows your lead all the time. Just like at work, there can't be two bosses.

3 hours ago, gleninjersey said:

I'm slightly torn on this issue.  At times i see the need to let him know "who the boss is".  But at other times I wonder if I'm being impatient or angry that he isn't getting it or understanding.  Not that I'm being hurtful but rather stern.  Raising my voice and putting some bass in it.

and that's exactly it, just by the inflection of your voice, he should know where he stands. It has nothing to do with being mean, just the understanding that you mean business and expect his attention. Dogs like structure and clear guidelines.

Besides wanting to please us, dogs will work their asses off and sometimes die for their leader, if they think it will make their leader happy. Understanding how a dog thinks (which is different than a human) can go a long way in positive training. I've lived with probably 12 -14 dogs in the past, but I spent a ton of time reading and researching how a dog rationalizes things, as I wanted to do everything as correct as possible this go around. It's been such a completely different experience this time, and the progress my little dude is making, by far, exceeds my last pup, at the same age. Hopefully, I won't screw up his head for the adult years .

I'm in training class number 5 with my pup, we go to Petsmart, primarily for the socialization experience. At home, he can be a total knucklehead, but when we go into the store for class, he knows we're there to work, it ain't playtime. He puts 100% focus on the tasks that we're doing. It's been pretty amazing to see that transformation and focus at a early age. He also knows that's what I expect from him, and he's always checking to make sure I approve.

 

 

[Sniper 6,372]

2 hours ago, NJSigfan said:

Can’t agree with this more!  Making sure the whole family use the same words and hand signals will make training life so much easier.  

I had some issues with the hand signals and cues early on with wifey, my son and grandson, and I finally had to lay the law down with them exactly how the commands and hand signals should be done. There was definitely confusion until they all got on the same page, as they all wanted to do them their own way.

Now, my little dude actually responds better to hand signals than verbal commands. Hand signals are truly the way to reinforce the verbal cues. That has always been my goal. Plus, if the dog learns hand signals, he'll still be able to follow cues either when it's noisy or you need to be silent.

Kinda goes along with the saying "People remember 20% of what they HEAR, but remember 70% of what they SEE and HEAR".

3 hours ago, NJSigfan said:

Whether or not to use treats during training seems to be a matter of preference.  We’ve been told to use and not use.  When we had our rottie the trainer encourage the use of kibble in the beginning.

This is an area I screwed up in the beginning. The normal process is to use a lot of treats until the dog really understands and follows the cues regularly. I didn't want him to look at me as a "snack machine", so I varied when I used treats, and switched up with just using lots of praise (thinking I can always offer praise, but might not always have treats). With a puppy, that wasn't the best plan, and it took longer to master those particular cues, not using treats solidly in the beginning, until he became automatic with the cue.

3 hours ago, NJSigfan said:

Once the command was learned, we weaned off to “clicker” queues and then to Uber amounts of praise.  We did the same technique with our current pup (lab, wolfhound mix) and she picked up the hand queues super fast and will come from one end of the yard solely on a clicker noise.

I never went the "clicker" route, as once again, I didn't him want to become fixated and rely on an outside tool. I just got him use to my whistle or finger snap. Those two, I know I always have with me.

3 hours ago, NJSigfan said:

most of all go slow and be consistent.  Using the same words and gestures will ensure the pup l earns and responds in the same way.

THIS is the most important point to remember. Consistency is number one in training and molding behavior, and not allowing bad habits to take hold, that you'll have to correct in the future.

 

[shooter28 153]

Congrats on the dog! Pics?

Heres some training tips I had good luck using with my golden retriever. Its the only dog Ive had so far and he was a breeze to train. We got him as a 8 week puppy and he lived to be 13. He had an accident in the house the very first night and then it never happened again. Super fun, and one of the most laid back dogs Ive interacted with which was great since there were so many little kids on the street that wanted to play with him. Never nipped, barked, or got aggressive. We tried taking him to puppy school but found that was a waste of time. He trained so easily that it wasnt really worth it. Theres no real magic in doing anything. Just takes a little time and patience. It did get him to be social with other dogs which was nice but a bunch of people in our neighborhood got dogs soon after us so that wasnt really needed anymore.

-Use treats for good behavior.

-When he jumps up, just turn around and ignore him. 

-If he is pulling on his leash while walking, get one of those metal choker collars. They look cruel but they really arent. They get the dogs attention without hurting them. After my dog tried pulling during walks, he quickly realized it was a bad idea. I seriously got to retire that collar after the 2nd day and we never had the problem again. 

-For the nipping, our breeder taught us this trick of using your thumb to pin his tongue down to the bottom of his mouth. Dont try to crush his tongue obviously, but firm pressure is fine. The second he starts to whine, let go. Again, our dog stopped the biting pretty quickly after we started doing this. It sounds like your dog is also a puppy still so its nothing he will naturally grow out of as well. 

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Here's a video of one of the YouTube trainers showing how to train a dog that pulls to walk on a leash.  I like this method and no treats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P53AlqxWf4

[silverado427 10,679]

       Our first GSD I trainer myself,   My current GSD I used Robinswood kennels . Two week boot camp . She came back a totally different dog. I can hand signal commands  to my dog at 100 yds.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Attended family birthday party / get together.  20 or so people.  Two other dogs.  He did very well.  Better than I had hoped for.  Never took off the leash though.  Much too soon for that.

Trying having him sit and not move when we go on walks when he is pulling constantly.  That or I'll just stop and have him stand still for a bit. He'll get it eventually.

Everyone at the birthday party loved him.  And he actually behaved better tjhan the others dogs when they met.  

[gleninjersey 2,139]

So we switched his harness yesterday.  I don't want to saw he's a completely different dog but OMG it's close! 

Have been on three walks since changing his harness.  He's hardly pulling at all.  I wish I could say it's because I'm such a great trainer or but I doubt that.  Lol.

We had a traditional harness on him.  After watching a few YouTube videos on how to stop him from pulling two different instructors said traditional harnesses actually encourage pulling.  Who knew! Well, other than those two instructors.

Evidently the way traditional harnesses work triggers a "pulling instint".  Much like sled dogs.  

The new harness fits a little different and the o-ring attachment for the leash is on the front instead of on his back.  When / if he pulls the harness is set up to move him towards you.  I think it's called an "Easy Walk" harness.  I highly recommend it! It was getting frustrating for him and I going on walks.  I was constantly making him sit or stop because of the constant pulling.  A 15 minute walk was taking 45 minutes.

Here's a link:

https://www.chewy.com/petsafe-easy-walk-dog-harness/dp/52060?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=PetSafe&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwm6HaBRCbARIsAFDNK-jQxU9Yr-G97teCXKOpkknD1xsOJqPnCMuqBWjwPh3J80XRJpgOE2EaAsnDEALw_wcB

 

[gleninjersey 2,139]

On a not so good note, that actually is beginning to concern me, is he is throwing up.  Four times in last two days.  Once in morning and then later in day.  Afternoon on Wed and at 12:30 last night for the later in day incidents.

We have been feeding him rice cooked in chicken broth with scrambled eggs added to it since this started.

I'm hoping he stops soon.  May have to take him to get if not.  First time he threw up I looked through it to see if there was anything in it that didn't belong.  I didn't see anything strange.

[Sniper 6,372]

3 hours ago, gleninjersey said:

Evidently the way traditional harnesses work triggers a "pulling instint".  Much like sled dogs.  

Yep, traditional harnesses that attach on the back act just like that, usually you can only go to that type of harness way after the dog is trained on how to walk correctly, or it will just play the "pull" game with them.

3 hours ago, gleninjersey said:

First time he threw up I looked through it to see if there was anything in it that didn't belong.  I didn't see anything strange.

Has he eaten anything outside or inside? Possible obstruction? Does he eat twigs, plants or anything else when outside? There are many plants that are poisonous to dogs.

Swallow pieces of bones or toys? Eat any kids toys?

If he has an obstruction, it can cause them to throw-up like that. Is he pooping normal amounts?

You have to watch the throwing up, the dog can easily get dehydrated, which will cause a bunch of other issues.

[Sevenshot 98]

Family Dog by Wolters is a quick read. He's the original dog training guru and most of today's knowledge is based on his research. The downside to the book is that a lot of improved info has been built on his foundation, but the info is still good, and now cheap and easy. This book is from the viewpoint of adults teaching a kid to train the puppy.

He has some still famous books in water dog and gun dog that most hunters will be familiar with.

[Zeke 5,504]

@gleninjersey are you watching food intake? Dogs will gorge..

 

[gleninjersey 2,139]

7 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

Yep, traditional harnesses that attach on the back act just like that, usually you can only go to that type of harness way after the dog is trained on how to walk correctly, or it will just play the "pull" game with them.

Has he eaten anything outside or inside? Possible obstruction? Does he eat twigs, plants or anything else when outside? There are many plants that are poisonous to dogs.

Swallow pieces of bones or toys? Eat any kids toys?

If he has an obstruction, it can cause them to throw-up like that. Is he pooping normal amounts?

You have to watch the throwing up, the dog can easily get dehydrated, which will cause a bunch of other issues.

I haven't noticed him eating twigs, plants,etc. Grass every so often while walking but I stop him right away. He is pooping and peeing regularly.  I make sure his water dish is always full.

He's been okay so far today (knick on wood). Maybe just an upset stomach? We did buy him new dog food.  The Rescue gave us some when they dropped him off but didn't know what it was (it's donated to them). But he was on it for a few days before the vomiting.

 

[gleninjersey 2,139]

1 hour ago, Zeke said:

@gleninjersey are you watching food intake? Dogs will gorge..

 

Yes.  Rescue was feeding him one cup in morning and one at night.  We are following the feeding and walking schedule he was on that they gave us.

[Zeke 5,504]

Just now, gleninjersey said:

Yes.  Rescue was feeding him one cup in morning and one at night.  We are following the feeding and walking schedule he was on that they gave us.

I’m at a loss... could be stress.. I hope. Dunno.

We are at one week? Or 2 weeks?.

 

[Sniper 6,372]

8 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

We did buy him new dog food.  The Rescue gave us some when they dropped him off but didn't know what it was (it's donated to them). But he was on it for a few days before the vomiting.

Hopefully, it was just a reaction to the new food. Usually, the recommended way is to blend new and old food and taper off the old to the new over the course of a week to avoid any issues. Let's hope that's all it was.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

20 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I’m at a loss... could be stress.. I hope. Dunno.

We are at one week? Or 2 weeks?.

 

Sunday will be week two.

I was wondering if it could be stress.  I may have been pushing him too hard to not pull on the leash? A 15 minute walk would take 2-3 times as long because I kept sitting him down or making him stand still.  Wasn't mistreating him but he and I were both getting unnerved.

Amazing what the right harness has done.  Walks have become much easier and less stressful.  Even my wife sent me a text saying how much better he is with the new harness.

I kind of feel bad about it now.  But I had no idea a certain type of harness actually encourages pulling.  And I grew up with dogs!  Poor little guy.

 

[Zeke 5,504]

Just now, gleninjersey said:

Sunday will be week two.

I was wondering if it could be stress.  I may have been pushing him too hard to not pull on the leash? A 15 minute walk would take 2-3 times as long because I kept sitting him down or making him stand still.  Wasn't mistreating him but he and I were both getting unnerved.

Amazing what the right harness has done.  Walks have become much easier and less stressful.  Even my wife sent me a text saying how much better he is with the new harness.

I kind of feel bad about it now.  But I had no idea a certain type of harness actually encourages pulling.  And I grew up with dogs!  Poor little guy.

 

As @Sniper22 said could be food dude. Drastic diet changes no bueno 

[gleninjersey 2,139]

24 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Hopefully, it was just a reaction to the new food. Usually, the recommended way is to blend new and old food and taper off the old to the new over the course of a week to avoid any issues. Let's hope that's all it was.

We only tapered for a day or two.  That plus stress maybe? I hope so.  So far He's been really good. 

Wife got him a Kong feeder toy today.  The one you fill with food and they play with it / figure out how to get the food out.  She says he played with it for at least half an hour.