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Mrs. Peel

Thailand Cave Rescue

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Have you all been following this story? I'm kind of transfixed by it. Honestly, as a non-swimmer who hates close spaces... this is kind of my worst nightmare! :icon_eek:

Once i started reading the details, I realized what a terrible fix these kids are in! They're 3 miles into a narrow, twisty, partially flooded cave system strewn with rocks and other obstacles. The cave is a half-mile underground, mostly through solid rock, with a thick forest above and few access roads... so drilling from above is incredibly challenging. Many of the boys can't swim... though they're trying to train them to scuba dive (it would be a 5-hour swim to get them out). Worst yet, the oxygen levels are dropping (not enough to sustain the number of people)… so they're already a little weak apparently AND heavy rains are expected on Sunday. They just lost one of the rescue divers when he rain out of oxygen... so already a tragic situation. I'm hoping for some good news though... like they find another entrance, soon.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/thailand-cave-rescue-why-cant-they-drill-from-above-other-questions-you-want-answered/ar-AAzGp2O#image=AAzGuxX|16


 

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Yes as stated above... they walked in... led by their 25-year-old football (soccer) coach. But, then it started raining... and the cave quickly began flooding and so they took refuge on a higher ledge within the cave. (It's the start of monsoon season over there). They have been in there since June 23rd!!! Horrible.

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Apparently it is a ritual on the soccer team. They go into the cave and write their names on a wall. This is usually a very easy trek: walk in/wall out. And it was over a week before the monsoon season. unfortunately the rains started early and they were forced deeper and up on a ledge by the rising water. 

Options at this point are to wait out the monsoon season (October), try to drill down to them, or teach them to scuba out.  None of those have a satisfying chance of success.   

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16 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Apparently it is a ritual on the soccer team. They go into the cave and write their names on a wall. This is usually a very easy trek: walk in/wall out. And it was over a week before the monsoon season. unfortunately the rains started early and they were forced deeper and up on a ledge by the rising water. 

Options at this point are to wait out the monsoon season (October), try to drill down to them, or teach them to scuba out.  None of those have a satisfying chance of success.   

Thank you, I didn't know about that ritual! Maybe that's why the parents have been surprising kindly towards the young coach. He apparently gave up his food and water to the boys... and he's now in pretty weak condition.

Also, to clarify... the cave is filled right up to the ceiling with water on some long stretches... so their big concern is that some of these young kids would begin to panic (understandably) - non-swimmers, underwater, in the dark, and because the passages are so narrow... they'd have to do some of that navigation themselves... ugh! It makes my skin positively crawl. Some of these kids are only 11! Nail-biting really.

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Just now, Mrs. Peel said:

Thank you, I didn't know about that ritual! Maybe that's why the parents have been surprising kindly towards the young coach. He apparently gave up his food and water to the boys... and he's now in pretty weak condition.

Also, to clarify... the cave is filled right up to the ceiling with water on some long stretches... so their big concern is that some of these young kids would begin to panic (understandably) - non-swimmers, underwater, in the dark, and because the passages are so narrow... they'd have to do some of that navigation themselves... ugh! It makes my skin positively crawl. Some of these kids are only 11! Nail-biting really.

There are stretches that are too narrow to swim through with tanks. So the kids would have to doff their tank and swim through.  

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26 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

There are stretches that are too narrow to swim through with tanks. So the kids would have to doff their tank and swim through.  

I. Can't. Even. Imagine. --- Dear god! The stuff of nightmares. Nooooo! They need to start drilling. Like yesterday! I know they have world-class divers on scene. Let's hope they have world class miners/drilling teams too!

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2 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I. Can't. Even. Imagine. --- Dear god! The stuff of nightmares. Nooooo! They need to start drilling. Like yesterday! I know they have world-class divers on scene. Let's hope they have world class miners/drilling teams too!

Have no fear. Elon Musk is sending experts from his Boring Company

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Days ago when I first heard they were found, I assumed an easy rescue. Now that I have learned of their true predicament, it is a horrible nightmare.  Even when dry, I have a hard time accepting the wisdom of hiking 2.5 miles into an underground labyrinth.

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It will be really tough on the kids. Read that a Thai navy seal died, he ran out of air, not sure if he was working on finding another way of moving equipment. imagine a fearful kid trying to make it.

Also read that per Thai rules the media cannot interview the parents. I like that, We should try that here, they have enough to pray and worry for, then a bunch of people from all over constantly put a mike in their face. Hoping for the best for them.

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This article has detailed diagrams which give a good, if chilling, perspective of the situation. (Personally? I couldn't traverse some of those flooded areas. In one spot you'd have to dive down 15-feet! I can't even put my face underwater without panicking). I can't see how 11-year-olds would pull that off. And I don't think pumping is the answer... you can't outpace mother nature during monsoon season. They're either going to have to find another entrance... or... drill them out, I think. But as you can see on the one diagram, the terrain looks pretty rough!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/03/thai-cave-rescue-illustrated-look/755782002/

Can someone please elucidate me - why hasn't someone (or have they?) developed mini unmanned subs capable of towing cable, oxygen tanks, people, etc, through small spaces using sonar/mapping? Why are human divers doing all this dangerous work? It seems incredible to me. I mean, we can put people on the moon... put satellites in space... use unmanned drones for all kinds of things... but we don't have subs that can traverse flooded caves?  I mean, really? :unsure:

Edit: Where's our damn resident submariner? @Displaced Texan… weigh in, please!

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This article has detailed diagrams which give a good, if chilling, perspective of the situation. (Personally? I couldn't traverse some of those flooded areas. In one spot you'd have to dive down 15-feet! I can't even put my face underwater without panicking). I can't see how 11-year-olds would pull that off. And I don't think pumping is the answer... you can't outpace mother nature during monsoon season. They're either going to have to find another entrance... or... drill them out, I think. But as you can see on the one diagram, the terrain looks pretty rough!
[mention=2136]Displaced Texan[/mention]… weigh in, please!


What article


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2 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

This article has detailed diagrams which give a good, if chilling, perspective of the situation.

Can someone please elucidate me - why hasn't someone (or have they?) developed mini unmanned subs capable of towing cable, oxygen tanks, people, etc, through small spaces using sonar/mapping? 

Edit: Where's our damn resident submariner? @Displaced Texan… weigh in, please!

I've never been a submariner, though I've dived on a few subs in the north Atlantic.   I've been an avid SCUBA diver for decades; mostly shipwreck exploration, so I've got a lot of experience with wreck penetration, deep dives, mixed gas (trimix), staged decompression, and a bit of cavern and easy cave diving.   And what they're facing in Thailand is way beyond my skill set.  

It is daunting to think of getting inexperienced kids out of there on SCUBA, certainly with zero vis in the three sumps they'd have to dive through, and particularly through the one tight passage that won't permit a diver and tank through simultaneously.   Those circumstances are about as panic-inducing as any I can think of, and panic there would be fatal.   I've had classes that included getting really stuck in a tight cave passage, and losing all visibility in a silt out, but on separate dives, and with the full knowledge that the locations were carefully chosen by the instructor as the spots where they take all of their students to experience getting stuck and silted out.   That's a very different thing than what the kids would be facing, and I really hope one of the alternate plans works out.  

Since they can, with some effort, get supplies and oxygen back to the kids and the coach, and they have volunteer medics back there, they do have time to wait and get this right.   More flooding will mean longer sump dives for the rescuers hauling supplies, but the chamber where the kids are isn't expected to flood.

There are some mini subs (underwater drones, kind of) in civilian hands being used for cave exploration, but I don't know that any are capable of dragging cables and and tanks and transiting the dry sections between sumps (though they could be helped over by humans).   They're all guided visually, as far as I know.  Presumably the oil and gas industry and the military have much more capable hardware, but I suspect the problem is that none of it has been designed for this particular problem.

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Thanks, @10X --- those are helpful insights. (You have a real "renaissance man" background btw!)

Even to my novice eyes, I agree that IF they can keep the oxygen flowing to that area of the cave (apparently that's been a problem), it might be wisest to wait until other alternatives like drilling down into the cave can be explored and completed. It seems to me it would be sooo easy for anyone to panic on that kind of dive - the fear would be mind-boggling.

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Oh, my. After drilling several holes, I guess without success, it sounds like they're leaning to leading them out through the full cave in a chaperoned dive. They've been pumping water steadily - I wonder how low they've been able to get it?

Godspeed to those kids and their incredibly brave rescuers. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/conditions-perfect-for-evacuation-of-thai-boys-in-cave/ar-AAzHdBJ?ocid=spartanntp#image=AAzgPbe|18

 

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2 minutes ago, The_Matrix said:

This is scary stuff.  I thought this only happens in the movies.

no. when impossible crap goes wrong, is what happens in movies......

i hope they find a way. i can't imagine why they started a tradition of doing this just before monsoon season in the first place. i think they've got 2 choices. scuba out, or continue on and hope to find another exit.

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https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/elon-musk-making-kid-sized-submarine-to-rescue-teens-in-thailand-cave/

Elon Musk tweeted on Saturday that a team of SpaceX engineers is hours away from completing work on a "tiny kid-sized submarine" that could be used to extract 12 teenagers and preteens who are stranded with their soccer coach in a flooded cave in Thailand.

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https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/elon-musk-making-kid-sized-submarine-to-rescue-teens-in-thailand-cave/

Elon Musk tweeted on Saturday that a team of SpaceX engineers is hours away from completing work on a "tiny kid-sized submarine" that could be used to extract 12 teenagers and preteens who are stranded with their soccer coach in a flooded cave in Thailand.



I wish I had money to play like he does. Sounds like they built 3 different test models to get the kids out.


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Lordy, I must be getting old... cuz I totally welled up like a big baby when I found out that 4 had been successfully rescued already! :crying:

I'm so impressed with these divers... the word "hero" is tossed around lightly, but these folks are earning the title for sure. IMO... they are LIVING ANGELS. Fingers crossed that their good luck continues!  They're still fighting against very long odds and rain is predicted. 

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