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Assuming that the blade length is equivalent to what one would EDC on a folding bladeknife, are you allowed to carry a fixed blade knife here in NJ? Have my eye on an Essee and a Tops fixed. Would not be carried on my body but used as a knife to keep in my bag.

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Assuming that the blade length is equivalent to what one would EDC on a folding bladeknife, are you allowed to carry a fixed blade knife here in NJ? Have my eye on an Essee and a Tops fixed. Would not be carried on my body but used as a knife to keep in my bag.


Are you over 18 and not a felon? If so You can carry any size knife you want in NJ as long as you have a legal reason for doing so. Self Defense is not a valid reason. It is a tool that I use for opening packages is.


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Over 18 and not a felon. Correct.
Then you can carry whatever you want as long as you have a legal reason for doing so. I don't carry a knife regularly but when I do it is a Finnish Sissipuukko M/05.

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3 hours ago, capt14k said:

Self Defense is not a valid reason.

I keep hearing this. Please educate me.

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So if I say I'm carrying it because I may need to open some boxes or cut some rope at some point in my life, I'm good?

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I keep hearing this. Please educate me.
Self defense would fall under use against a person or property. However self defense is a valid defense. Though it is a chicken or an egg type situation. If one is carrying for self defense they are carrying for use against a person. So illegal. However if one were to use a knife they were carrying for a legal purpose and used it in self defense legal. That is my interpretation. Doesn't make sense but this is NJ.

https://knifeup.com/new-jersey-knife-laws/

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So if I say I'm carrying it because I may need to open some boxes or cut some rope at some point in my life, I'm good?
That is my reading of the law.

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From your link:

 

It is illegal to own any weapon, with the purpose to use it unlawfully against the person or property of another.

 

You forgot "unlawfully". There is nothing unlawful about using a knife, gun, or ballpoint pen in self-defense.

 

 

 

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From your link:

 

 

It is illegal to own any weapon, with the purpose to use it unlawfully against the person or property of another.
 

You forgot "unlawfully". There is nothing unlawful about using a knife, gun, or ballpoint pen in self-defense.

 

 

 

I agree. Except that in NJ if you are carrying with the intent of using against a person it is unlawful til you actually use it in self defense. As I said chicken or egg. Easier to say you are carrying to open boxes, then if you have to lawfully use it in self defense you are protected under the law.

 

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So if I say I'm carrying it because I may need to open some boxes or cut some rope at some point in my life, I'm good?
That is my reading of the law.

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I thought I read something about having an immediate need, but maybe I'm wrong. For example, you do all this cool stuff with your blade during the week. Now, it's the weekend and you're carrying. Your justifiable need just disappeared or changed, meaning you should be prepared with another justifiable need to have that with you right then.

More knowledgeable folks will jump in, I'm sure.


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You never know when you will need to open a box or cut some rope. Knives are perfectly legal (except the ones that are specifically illegal). You got to love NJ. Make it confusing enough so no one will try to carry one.

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I summarized the deciding case about knives below:

https://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/appellate-division-published/1987/221-n-j-super-66-0.html

State v. Blaine

"the officers patted down defendant and found in a pocket a closed folding knife which had a blade approximately four inches long and approximately one inch wide and a black handle with a picture of a dragon on one side."

"Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree."

"Some objects that may be used as weapons also have more innocent purposes. For example, a machete can be a lethal weapon or a useful device for deep sea fishing."

"Thus, in the case of a charge under N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5(d), the State must prove not only the fact of possession of an implement which could be used as a weapon but circumstantial culpability as well."

"its status as a weapon whose possession is capable of subjecting its possessor to criminal liability is entirely dependent on the circumstances attending the possession."

"The question which is directly before us is whether a knife of the nature here involved is by itself of such a character as to permit a conviction in the absence of any incriminating factor other than its presence in one's pocket as he is walking down the street. We conclude that it is not. Obviously, a folding knife with a four-inch blade can be used lethally and is capable of inflicting serious injury. See N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1(r). But it also has a myriad of perfectly proper uses, including purposes which are "precautionary, sporting or otherwise benign.""

"We are constrained, therefore, to conclude that this knife was not of a character whose bare possession, in the absence of a single additional incriminating circumstance, can sustain a conviction of crime."

"The conviction appealed from is reversed."

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I thought I read something about having an immediate need, but maybe I'm wrong. For example, you do all this cool stuff with your blade during the week. Now, it's the weekend and you're carrying. Your justifiable need just disappeared or changed, meaning you should be prepared with another justifiable need to have that with you right then.

More knowledgeable folks will jump in, I'm sure.


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Nothing about immediate need. Explainable lawful purpose makes all knives legal.

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NJ is so screwed up.@PK90 here is the specific case law that says you can not arm yourself with a knife or blade for self defense. However they have conceded you can arm yourself for self defense inside the home.

NJ v Montalvo (2017), due to Heller, they concede you can arm yourself with a machete inside the house for self defense.

However they maintain that in State v Kelly (1990) arming yourself with a carpet cutting razor before leaving the house to use for self defense is illegal.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/nj-supreme-court/1863588.html


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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

NJ is so screwed up.@PK90 here is the specific case law that says you can not arm yourself with a knife or blade for self defense. However they have conceded you can arm yourself for self defense inside the home.

NJ v Montalvo (2017), due to Heller, they concede you can arm yourself with a machete inside the house for self defense.

However they maintain that in State v Kelly (1990) arming yourself with a carpet cutting razor before leaving the house to use for self defense is illegal.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/nj-supreme-court/1863588.html


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Agree that NJ laws are completely irrational. If she found the carpet cutting razor on the ground when she was being attacked then she could use it for self defense as it was "spontaneous". So in NJ's view you cannot "plan" to protect yourself outside of your home. Ugh.

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Agree that NJ laws are completely irrational. If she found the carpet cutting razor on the ground when she was being attacked then she could use it for self defense as it was "spontaneous". So in NJ's view you cannot "plan" to protect yourself outside of your home. Ugh.
Exactly. So I think that answers Paul's question about not being allowed to carry for self defense in NJ.

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my EDC is a small folder (spyderco sage 5, less than 3 inches blade length) and even with that I feel like a criminal if I take 10 steps outside my home.  I wouldn't be comfortable carrying anything larger than that or menacing looking.

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1 hour ago, PK90 said:

Bookmarked to read later. Thanks.

Just read  the entire decision.

Verrrry interesting.

Gives you an insight into the mind of the legislators (or their aides who wrote it) at the time the original 2C:39 & 58 were proposed as bills and negotiated over.

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I read the whole thing and am still confused. Final decision, NG on all charges, right?

Quote

The jury instructions provided for N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5(d) constitute plain error. We therefore reverse the judgment of the Appellate Division and remand for proceedings consistent with this opinion.

 

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I read the whole thing and am still confused. Final decision, NG on all charges, right?
The jury instructions provided for N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5(d) constitute plain error. We therefore reverse the judgment of the Appellate Division and remand for proceedings consistent with this opinion.
 
Because he was in his home. They reference prior decision on carpet knife as being still valid. That one was guilty.

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44 minutes ago, peacewalker said:

my EDC is a small folder (spyderco sage 5, less than 3 inches blade length) and even with that I feel like a criminal if I take 10 steps outside my home.  I wouldn't be comfortable carrying anything larger than that or menacing looking.

And that is one of their objectives.

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I'll be carrying my OTF backed up by a business card that I am a collector and dealer in small arms and cutlery if I ever visit NJ again.

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4 hours ago, PK90 said:

I'll be carrying my OTF backed up by a business card that I am a collector and dealer in small arms and cutlery if I ever visit NJ again.

What one do you have. I was thinking of buying one. In PA you can own them as a curio but you cant carry them apparently.

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What one do you have. I was thinking of buying one. In PA you can own them as a curio but you cant carry them apparently.
I bought a few. They're en route to me. Delivering Monday. Not expensive CobraTecs.

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If figure this existing thread is as good as any to ask this question. Let's say you get in a situation where an officer does his "do you have any weapons, anything that will stick, etc" questioning.

I've always told myself I'd say NO, since I consider my knives as tools. Now my question......

How does one respond if he/she does a pat down and discovers your knife? They'd say "I thought you said you didn't have any weapons". I'd say, "I don't, as my knife is a tool I use for opening packages, etc".

At that point, does the officer consider you to be confrontational as escalate the situation?


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4 hours ago, this_is_nascar said:

I'd say, "I don't, as my knife is a tool I use for opening packages, etc".

My opinion is that you need more than just "opening packages". If you spewed off a list of specific tasks you do regularly (cut rope, clean electrical contacts, scrape paint, dig out splinters, pick your teeth, open your lunch bags, clean your nails, cut your apples, open mail, etc.) with the knife, that might get them to back down and make it sound believable.

 

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4 hours ago, this_is_nascar said:

If figure this existing thread is as good as any to ask this question. Let's say you get in a situation where an officer does his "do you have any weapons, anything that will stick, etc" questioning.

I've always told myself I'd say NO, since I consider my knives as tools. Now my question......

How does one respond if he/she does a pat down and discovers your knife? They'd say "I thought you said you didn't have any weapons". I'd say, "I don't, as my knife is a tool I use for opening packages, etc".

At that point, does the officer consider you to be confrontational as escalate the situation?


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"Yes, I have a pocket knife (on me, on seat, in glove box, etc.)"

Saying you do not and then having them find it... only makes it worse and you have to justify the douchebag thing of how a pocket knife is not a weapon.

In the past, saying I have one, was not an issue.

If asked why... then you can say why.  Be it opening boxes, gardening, or I always have one in the car for quick fixes, or cutting fruit on the go. =) 

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I've never been questioned on any traffic stops if I had any weapons. I also don't give the cop a reason to.

If they did though my answer would be yes Sir I do. When he asks why, I am a florist and work at a garden center so I think I'm pretty covered. Unless he asks why it's an Emerson haha

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