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capt14k

Prices of Black Rifles

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On 8/5/2018 at 11:01 AM, capt14k said:

It seem ARs that members dumped $1,200 into are selling for $400. Three Questions.

1. Why the low prices

2. Why buy anything but used

3. Do you regret building multiple ARs instead of buying Milsurps like the FN-49 which have doubled in price in the last year.

 

1) The market is FLOODED and competition is fierce. Let me put it this way, I have a noveske gen 2 lower home build with a rianier billet ultramatch upper. I paid in a non panic market $240 and $169 respectively. They are now $300 and $209 respectively and peaked significantly above that during the 2012+ panic. IIRC they were near $400 for the lower, and $240 for the upper. To top it off my noveske is based on a forging, and the gen 3 is back to billet. 

If I want forged and a matching feature set, that is forged, and the only hting it may not bring to the table is the tolerances and concentricity of the rainier upper, and it's $199 for their M4E1 matched set. I can litterally buy a lapping tool with compound and still come in less than a noveske lower. 

I'd be selling used something that cost me $449 vs a new cost of $509, and new competitive product cost of $199. It's going to be a bloodbath for me, and the panic buyer is SCREWED at trying to recover a decent chunk of a $640 price. 

Additionally, the builds I see for sale on a lot of forums are either full of it about how much they spent to build it or got SHITTY,. SHITTY pricing as a lot of it seems ot be MSRP or higher. 

2) Buying used means you trust the builder or you are buying for parts. How much do you trust them, and there's parts I don't believe the seller on ever. I.e. barrel and bolt. 

3) No. I built to my needs for the most part. I have about one ar that exists because spare parts bin, but I have no desire to sell any of them. I also didn't go off and panic buy a dozen lowers and feel obligated to build them into something. 

 

On 8/5/2018 at 11:12 AM, capt14k said:

So black Rifles after a few hundred rounds lose 2/3 of their quality? They certainly don't make them like they used to.
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Home builds may never have had quality, and most of the franken guns are home builds. Beyond that, for a good name factory gun, you are pricing in the risk the owner dicked around with it, and even on the used market it faces the same problem as new. The price of a just as you like it franken gun is still likely cheaper than the $2300 high end AR or even the $1700 used version of it. Your market is people who want it JUST like that and who trust you to have been kind to it and not be lying too much. 

Guns with a secondary market demand the right size compared to supply tend to retain value. Otherwise yeah they tend ot lose a good chunk at resale. 

Frankly most used builds I see do not make a lick of sense and very often represent someone trying to sell their questionable idea or a passing mood. 

 

On 8/5/2018 at 4:49 PM, capt14k said:

I wonder now that the 5.56 craze is dying will it put further pressure on resale prices? 6.5 Grendel is ballistically superior in a small platform and many have moved up to 6.5 Creedmoor or at least .308. As prices come down on 6.5 Creedmoor ammo so should the rifles. This could make many AR-15 Builds near worthless. I think the cheap price of admission is what made AR-15 builds popular, but if a better rifle is just as cheap with similar benefits how many would still choose 5.56? Especially with alternatives to the AR-10 platform such as intermediate frame .308 or .308 Revolution that bring true .30 rifles closer in size to an AR-15. Just curious.

Also curious why no one seems to buy a long action platform like BN36? Is it simply the higher start up cost? .30-06 ammo is more plentiful and cheaper than 7.62NATO or .308 or any others except 5.56 or 6.5 Grendel (steel)

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People buy the shit out of, and shoot the shit out of, 5.56 ARs it's not dying. not even close.  There's just a glut. Part of the reason for that glut is that there's no real IP attached to the platform that you have to license. the AR-10 platform is heading there so it is getting cheaper, but it isn't yet cheap and probably won't be anytime soon. Things like the BN36 are proprietary and will have the pricing and success to go with it. 

Anything that brings a smaller .308 in an ar-like platform will be proprietary unless made public domain by the creator. Kind of like the DPMS version of such. 

I'm assuming you are posting because nobody wants your 6.5 grendel. It's out of fashion. The new hotness is .224 Valkyrie. 

Who built it? For a hunting gun lots of answers are probably ok. For an accuracy gun? Not so much. Even if it is an AA gun, who did the compliance work and did they kill the accuracy? 

Your selling into a glut and it's a niche product that's out of fashion. You might as well keep it or just accept you are going to take it in the nuts when you sell. 

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Whoa!!! Ultimatums!!!  Agree with me or you're wrong!
Watching the end of "We Were Soldiers". LTC Moore and the troops of the 1/7th seem to make the 5.56 work well there with no complaints.  Worked well in Khe Sahn and a bunch of other battles.  It's been too successful to dismiss as troublesome.  Different 5.56 weapons are constantly evaluated.
The 5.56 is in service over 50 years.  If it's performance was half as bad as the naysayers it would have gone long ago. Yes being it's 50 years old (never had a service rifle cartridge that long) replacement's are being tested.
What funding should be cut? All 5.56? Leave troops with nothing until some tactical ninja round is adopted?


Not at all agree with me or your wrong.


I said can we agree there is an issue with 5.56 and that is why they are testing new options?


If that is not the case then why are they testing new options? is it just to use up the budget? If that is the case maybe the budget should be cut.


Never suggested cutting all funding just the funding for the R&D for a replacement to 5.56, which would only be necessary if there is nothing wrong with 5.56. How do you even deduce from that statement that I suggested even for a second to take away all 5.56?


I thought that was a logical train of throught. Just because something is 50 years old isn't a reason to change. What happened to the adage if it isn't broke why fix it?


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People buy the shit out of, and shoot the shit out of, 5.56 ARs it's not dying. not even close.  There's just a glut. Part of the reason for that glut is that there's no real IP attached to the platform that you have to license. the AR-10 platform is heading there so it is getting cheaper, but it isn't yet cheap and probably won't be anytime soon. Things like the BN36 are proprietary and will have the pricing and success to go with it. 

Anything that brings a smaller .308 in an ar-like platform will be proprietary unless made public domain by the creator. Kind of like the DPMS version of such. 

I'm assuming you are posting because nobody wants your 6.5 grendel. It's out of fashion. The new hotness is .224 Valkyrie. 

Who built it? For a hunting gun lots of answers are probably ok. For an accuracy gun? Not so much. Even if it is an AA gun, who did the compliance work and did they kill the accuracy? 

Your selling into a glut and it's a niche product that's out of fashion. You might as well keep it or just accept you are going to take it in the nuts when you sell. 

 

I didn't overpay for it. At $600 I am not taking a loss on it. Anyone following closely enough knows exactly what I paid for it. I was more surprised by the number of rifles selling for $400 and not just here.

 

 

I thought 6.5 Creedmoor was the new hot round. That would make sense to me? 6.5 Swede is a great proven round. 224 Valkyrie seems like another round for people too cheap to step up to a larger platform.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Downtownv said:

I wouldn't sell what I have at this point. Remember which assholes are running the show!

If DJT loses the house, it could get worse.

VOTE!

 I wonder if black rifles or 22lr can be used an indicator for how things will go in November.

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 I wonder if black rifles or 22lr can be used an indicator for how things will go in November.


Interesting concept. You maybe on to something. Tonight's elections results I think will give us a pretty good indication of where the public is trending.


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1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said:

 I wonder if black rifles or 22lr can be used an indicator for how things will go in November.

Idk. But July was second highest nics numbers in July  history. So there’s that

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Idk. But July was second highest nics numbers in history. So there’s that

 Did you just make that up and hope no one would call you out on it? Maybe the second highest July but not even close to the second highest in history. Also NICS checks mean little IMO. As the population grows so will NICS checks. Also 27 states don't require a NICS check and instead use an alternate form of permit. For example if CCW is an approved alternate form of permit one does not need to undergo a NICS check to purchase a Rifle.  

 

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-permit-qualify-alternative-nics-check-if-purchaser-using-it-purchase-type-firearm

 

 

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-permit-chart

 

 

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4 hours ago, capt14k said:

 Which article is that? The one with all the citations? I respectfully think you don't know how to read an article and look towards the citations. Also said I found it interesting not looking to prove a point with it. The point proving was with the previous link regarding the M1 Carbine. If I wanted to provide a detailed report on why 7.62NATO is a better round I could do so. However the fact that both the Army and USMC are looking for a more effective round is enough proof for me.

 

 

Here is another article for you. Now this has 2 links to statements made right in the article that will further the point if you click them. You won't have to go through the bibliography and manually find the article that further enhances the writers point.

 

 

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/10147/the-army-is-once-again-looking-to-replace-the-5-56mm-cartridge

 

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lol...ok

 

truth is, you really haven't a clue about what you're talking about and then cite an 13yr old article that shows no statistics to support your premise nor does it cite any studies instead, it's speaks to a bs example of a fking goat.  I think it's you that doesn't understand how to read an article.

 

Like I said, educate yourself because you look fking retarded here

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lol...ok
 
truth is, you really haven't a clue about what you're talking about and then cite an 13yr old article that shows no statistics to support your premise nor does it cite any studies instead, it's speaks to a bs example of a fking goat.  I think it's you that doesn't understand how to read an article.
 
Like I said, educate yourself because you look fking retarded here
It was more than just the goat. Again said I found the article interesting. Also posted link to article from 2017 for you to read, not that history would change over the course of 13 years unless new documentation was found. I don't find a need to play tacticool ninja so I'm not really that concerned with 5.56, but I will argue one side or another just to piss someone like you off. In all honesty I haven't fired any AR in well over a year. I have plenty of other firearms to take to the range.

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14 hours ago, capt14k said:

This is an interesting article titled "The Big Lie of Vietnam Kills U.S. Soldiers in Iraq"


https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2004/08/the_last_big_lie_of_vietnam_ki.html


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Funny how


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What are you going to do now that Jones is off Youtube?

 

 

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Lemmi get this straight..  Just to make sure i understand.

1. Black Rifles are worthless.
2. 5.56 and 9mm are ineffective.
3. Capt Has a Friend.
4. The US Mil wants to go back to the m14

Ill debate everyone of these if needed.

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What are you going to do now that Jones is off Youtube?
 
 
Di$info Jone$ works for the government. This whole banned from social media is a ploy to try and gain back some of his credibility.

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Lemmi get this straight..  Just to make sure i understand.
1. Black Rifles are worthless.
2. 5.56 and 9mm are ineffective.
3. Capt Has a Friend.
4. The US Mil wants to go back to the m14
Ill debate everyone of these if needed.


Nope you haven't followed anything correctly. Brookdale offers 095 Reading Comprehension Courses for that problem.

1. Black Rifles worth have decreased
2. 5.56 and 9mm are not as effective as 7.62NATO or .30-06 or .45ACP. No one said they were ineffective.
3. I count my friends on one hand. Everyone else is an associate or enemy.
4. U.S. Military is looking for new rifle. 6.5mm is leading the testing. Likely Creedmoor. In the meantime M14 is still being used on the front lines especially DMR by Spec Ops.


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Which Government?
United States. Why do you think he acted like a lunatic on Piers Morgan, making all firearms owners look bad.

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1 minute ago, capt14k said:


 

 


Nope you haven't followed anything correctly. Brookdale offers 095 Reading Comprehension Courses for that problem.

1. Black Rifles worth have decreased
2. 5.56 and 9mm are not as effective as 7.62NATO or .30-06 or .45ACP. No one said they were ineffective.
3. I count my friends on one hand. Everyone else is an associate or enemy.
4. U.S. Military is looking for new rifle. 6.5mm is leading the testing. Likely Creedmoor. In the meantime M14 is still being used on the front lines especially DMR by Spec Ops.


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Its pretty difficult to follow a thread that goes off in 10 directions at once...  Its even harder when you have little interest in the debate.

1. Some have, Some have not.
2. Well based on the size of the round that would make sense.
3. Welcome to the club (what am i)
4. I think they will end up sticking with 5.56. except certain situations.    Think of the cost of outfitting all US troops along with nato.  Pretty big deal.
5.  Rifle or round?

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Its pretty difficult to follow a thread that goes off in 10 directions at once...  Its even harder when you have little interest in the debate.
1. Some have, Some have not.
2. Well based on the size of the round that would make sense.
3. Welcome to the club (what am i)
4. I think they will end up sticking with 5.56. except certain situations.    Think of the cost of outfitting all US troops along with nato.  Pretty big deal.
5.  Rifle or round?


Honestly I lost interest in it yesterday when I posted funny how but because Mr I like to post in people's for sale listings acting like a Mod when he is not decided to jump in I had to keep it going.


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The Grendel has double the recoil and slightly less capacity than the 223/5.56.
(couple issues i see here)
 


I agree. I think Creedmoor shows the most promise. Which oddly enough is very similar to 6.5 Swede. What is old is new again.


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So testing is a waste of money. Can't call yourself conservative if you are willing to accept pissing away money on anything which includes the military.

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3 minutes ago, capt14k said:

So testing is a waste of money. Can't call yourself conservative if you are willing to accept pissing away money on anything which includes the military.

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1. Testing is just that.... Testing...   Moarrrr Knowledge cant hurt... its not like we are wasting the money buy putting shrimp on a tread mill.  Oh wait....

index.jpg.11215157e3282acbd3c80f3aed6f5377.jpg

2. I don't call my conservative...  I'm an American!

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1. Testing is just that.... Testing...   Moarrrr Knowledge cant hurt... its not like we are wasting the money buy putting shrimp on a tread mill.  Oh wait.... index.jpg.11215157e3282acbd3c80f3aed6f5377.jpg

2. I don't call my conservative...  I'm an American!

 

Testing with a purpose if there isn't a problem and no intent to switch is wasting money. Your R&D argument fails here. If you haven't noticed we have $21T in debt. 

I know you aren't a Conservative, but others claim to be.

 

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1 minute ago, capt14k said:

Testing with a purpose if there isn't a problem and no intent to switch is wasting money. Your R&D argument fails here. If you haven't noticed we have $21T in debt.

 

I know you aren't a Conservative.

 

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Testing can mean alot of things... Mission specific changes in weaponry etc etc... it does NOT mean a massive switch.

 

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Testing can mean alot of things... Mission specific changes in weaponry etc etc... it does NOT mean a massive switch.
 
The way I read the purpose of the testing was to switch from 5.56. I guess that could just be an excuse to use up the budget so it isn't but, but that needs to stop at all levels of government.

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