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Mrs. Peel

Tire Rack: good source? or bad?

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1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Pls... for the love of god, stop calling it a "play date" - you make it sound so... tawdry!  People will talk and then my good name will be in tatters.  :facepalm:

I swear, I get NO respect around here! :unsure:

The range hasn't seen that much action in YEARS!

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2 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Being someone brought it up I checked Amazon for the tires I have on my Honda.  $104 each and I still have to pay mounting and balancing.  The Honda dealer charges $130 each mounted and balanced.  I get my oil changes at the dealer for $2 more than Jiffy Lube.  In three years and almost 45,000 miles the dealer has "sold" me...nothing.

Many dealers have gotten away from screwing the consumer.  OT but last year I had to get the coils and spark plugs replaced on on Ford van.  Dealert charged me 50% more than if I did the job myself.  If you ever did that kind of job it's worth the money he charged me.

Don't get me wrong.  My heart belongs to independent mechanics the problem is the good ones I know are too far away to use.

 

I love my fords...but those coilpacks n plugs on their OHC engines look to hav e been set up by an owdi engineer. there's maybe 2 that're easy, the rest ALL have shit in the way. I had to replace the intake on my expedition, and did all the plugs/coils then, 'cause everything was off/outta the way. just bought an excursion. that one's gonna be fun some day. 

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Shame that so many won't give their local small business a shot first. Usually auto shop can order any tire and the total comes out cheaper than tire rack or Amazon after installation and disposal is factored in. Costco when they have a $70 off 4 tires deal is usually the cheapest route. When you buy from Amazon or Tire Rack if there is a problem you may or may not get the tire replaced for free, but even if you do you are paying to have it changed. Costco or good local shop will cover everything. Auto shops should charge their regular mount fee plus their lost profit on the sale of the tires for any tires that the customer provides.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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On 8/10/2018 at 11:25 AM, GRIZ said:

I realize a snob is only going to buy something like Michelin, Pirelli, or Continental.

@GRIZ:

Only an narrow minded ignoramus would make such a statement.....
I know you are not one, but you insist on sounding like one when you say things like that, even if you are intentionally trying to be provocative.  Also, stop with your annoying attitude of "I am always right and you are always wrong...", It really is unnecessary.  Also, it is very irritating and does not help to support your argument or otherwise valid point(s). Try practicing a bit of humility...

FYI, In the twelve automobiles I have had in my driving lifetime, I have had firsthand experience with tires manufactured by Goodyear, Firestone, Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli and Continental, as well as the Austrian-made Semperit tires that are no longer available and one no-name Chinese manufactured tire.

My 2004 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG had as its OEM ultra high performance summer tires Goodyear Eagle 1 tires.  While they are street tires they were designed to approach the traction of a race tire.  Unfortunately, my experience with these tires was that they were so soft that they all had to be replaced after about 12,000 miles of regular commuting driving, (with some grin-inducing acceleration episodes coming out of toll booths…..).  Alas, from this experience I cannot recommend them.

My 2007 Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG (SUV) had as its OEM high performance summer tires Continental Cross Contact UHP tires to fit the large 20” wheels.  I found them to be very effective in the warmer months, able to successfully contribute to the road handling and braking performance in both dry and wet road conditions, as well as providing a comfortable ride with acceptable tire/road noise.  I was able to get between 21,000 – 25,000 miles out of those tires before they needed to be replaced due to tread ware and I had four sets of them for the 10 years that I owned that vehicle.

Since the brake calipers on the M-B ML83 AMG were so large, I had to use the OEM wheels when I would switch to the winter tires that I used for driving during the five (5) months from Dec. through April.  The winter tires I purchased were Pirelli Scorpion ICE & SNOW tires.  They turned out to also be very good tires for their intended purpose, working very effectively not only in sub-40 deg. temperatures on dry roads, but also in snow covered roads, especially considering that the tires were almost 12” wide.

My 2014 BMW M6 Coupe had as its OEM high performance summer tires Michelin Pilot Super Sport (non run-flat tires) on the 20” wheels.  These tires have performed the best in most tires ranking articles and have higher ratings in consumer reviews than other performance tires.  They certainly lived up to their high ratings/rankings in my experience.  Not only were they excellent performers but also gave me 28,000 miles before I had to replace them.

For the winter tires for the M6, I selected Pirelli W240 Sottozero S2 Performance Winter/Snow tires (non run-flat) to mount on 19” wheels.  Again, similar to my experience with the Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow tires, these next-generation winter tires excelled, especially considering that this was a rear-wheel drive car and not an all-wheel drive vehicle like my SUV’s.

Since I had such good experiences with the Michelin and Pirelli tires on those vehicles, I made sure that I would have them on my current vehicle, a 2016 BMW X5M (SUV), (my third BMW X5).  So my summer tires for this SUV are Michelin Pilot Super Sport (21” non-run flats) and the winter tires are Pirelli Scorpions Winter (20” – non-run flats).  In the two years I have been driving this vehicle the tires have been dependable and provided the desired and expected performance. 

Therefore, from my car ownership and driving experience, I can and will highly recommend Michelin, Pirelli and Continental tires and call your statement quoted at the top of this post to be not just childish, but false.  It pays to do your research to understand what you are getting for your money. I strongly believe that tires are no place to sacrifice and go cheap, when it comes to your safety and that of your family and other passengers.  Yes, the Michelin, Pirelli and Continental tires I have currently and have had previously are generally more expensive than other tires, but like with many things, I believe you get what you pay for.  So, it does pay to shop around, as I explained my method of doing so in my initial post. Also, you may not be aware that Michelin is a French company that is now the parent company for BF Goodrich and Uniroyal tires. 

I will also say that the run-flat tires that are standard OEM tires on non-performance BMW’s leave much to be desired, regardless of the manufacturer.  The design flaw is that the perpendicular dimensional flex in the tire is limited due to the run-flat feature.  This reduction puts added strain on the tire sidewalls when hitting a nasty pothole and often results in a bubble on the sidewall, necessitating the replacement of the tire prematurely, even if the tread depth is fine, since it is now a safety hazard.

Back in 2014 and again in 2016, I attended the BMW Performance Driving School in Greer, SC.  As part of a special demonstration on tires, we drove and performed a dry and wet breaking test on a skid pad in two different vehicles: a Chrysler Mini-Van equipped with Michelin tires and a BMW 3-Series equipped with a known name American tire.  The results were quite eye-opening.  It demonstrated that even a highly regarded car like a BMW 3-series, when equipped with so-so tires will require a longer stopping distance when compared to a Mini-Van with high quality tires.  BTW, the headquarters for Michelin North America, Inc. is located in Greenville, SC, a very short distance from the BMW Group Plant Spartanburg in Greer, SC.  I bet you did not know that the BMW Group Plant Spartanburg employs nearly 10,000 people, (American citizens, living in South Carolina).  That is more people than any other single U.S. automotive assembly plant.

AVB-AMG

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45 minutes ago, AVB-AMG said:

@GRIZ:

Only an narrow minded ignoramus would make such a statement.....
I know you are not one, but you insist on sounding like one when you say things like that, even if you are intentionally trying to be provocative.  Also, stop with your annoying attitude of "I am always right and you are always wrong...", It really is unnecessary.  Also, it is very irritating and does not help to support your argument or otherwise valid point(s). Try practicing a bit of humility...

FYI, In the twelve automobiles I have had in my driving lifetime, I have had firsthand experience with tires manufactured by Goodyear, Firestone, Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli and Continental, as well as the Austrian-made Semperit tires that are no longer available and one no-name Chinese manufactured tire.

My 2004 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG had as its OEM ultra high performance summer tires Goodyear Eagle 1 tires.  While they are street tires they were designed to approach the traction of a race tire.  Unfortunately, my experience with these tires was that they were so soft that they all had to be replaced after about 12,000 miles of regular commuting driving, (with some grin-inducing acceleration episodes coming out of toll booths…..).  Alas, from this experience I cannot recommend them.

My 2007 Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG (SUV) had as its OEM high performance summer tires Continental Cross Contact UHP tires to fit the large 20” wheels.  I found them to be very effective in the warmer months, able to successfully contribute to the road handling and braking performance in both dry and wet road conditions, as well as providing a comfortable ride with acceptable tire/road noise.  I was able to get between 21,000 – 25,000 miles out of those tires before they needed to be replaced due to tread ware and I had four sets of them for the 10 years that I owned that vehicle.

Since the brake calipers on the M-B ML83 AMG were so large, I had to use the OEM wheels when I would switch to the winter tires that I used for driving during the five (5) months from Dec. through April.  The winter tires I purchased were Pirelli Scorpion ICE & SNOW tires.  They turned out to also be very good tires for their intended purpose, working very effectively not only in sub-40 deg. temperatures on dry roads, but also in snow covered roads, especially considering that the tires were almost 12” wide.

My 2014 BMW M6 Coupe had as its OEM high performance summer tires Michelin Pilot Super Sport (non run-flat tires) on the 20” wheels.  These tires have performed the best in most tires ranking articles and have higher ratings in consumer reviews than other performance tires.  They certainly lived up to their high ratings/rankings in my experience.  Not only were they excellent performers but also gave me 28,000 miles before I had to replace them.

For the winter tires for the M6, I selected Pirelli W240 Sottozero S2 Performance Winter/Snow tires (non run-flat) to mount on 19” wheels.  Again, similar to my experience with the Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow tires, these next-generation winter tires excelled, especially considering that this was a rear-wheel drive car and not an all-wheel drive vehicle like my SUV’s.

Since I had such good experiences with the Michelin and Pirelli tires on those vehicles, I made sure that I would have them on my current vehicle, a 2016 BMW X5M (SUV), (my third BMW X5).  So my summer tires for this SUV are Michelin Pilot Super Sport (21” non-run flats) and the winter tires are Pirelli Scorpions Winter (20” – non-run flats).  In the two years I have been driving this vehicle the tires have been dependable and provided the desired and expected performance. 

Therefore, from my car ownership and driving experience, I can and will highly recommend Michelin, Pirelli and Continental tires and call your statement quoted at the top of this post to be not just childish, but false.  It pays to do your research to understand what you are getting for your money. I strongly believe that tires are no place to sacrifice and go cheap, when it comes to your safety and that of your family and other passengers.  Yes, the Michelin, Pirelli and Continental tires I have currently and have had previously are generally more expensive than other tires, but like with many things, I believe you get what you pay for.  So, it does pay to shop around, as I explained my method of doing so in my initial post. Also, you may not be aware that Michelin is a French company that is now the parent company for BF Goodrich and Uniroyal tires. 

I will also say that the run-flat tires that are standard OEM tires on non-performance BMW’s leave much to be desired, regardless of the manufacturer.  The design flaw is that the perpendicular dimensional flex in the tire is limited due to the run-flat feature.  This reduction puts added strain on the tire sidewalls when hitting a nasty pothole and often results in a bubble on the sidewall, necessitating the replacement of the tire prematurely, even if the tread depth is fine, since it is now a safety hazard.

Back in 2014 and again in 2016, I attended the BMW Performance Driving School in Greer, SC.  As part of a special demonstration on tires, we drove and performed a dry and wet breaking test on a skid pad in two different vehicles: a Chrysler Mini-Van equipped with Michelin tires and a BMW 3-Series equipped with a known name American tire.  The results were quite eye-opening.  It demonstrated that even a highly regarded car like a BMW 3-series, when equipped with so-so tires will require a longer stopping distance when compared to a Mini-Van with high quality tires.  BTW, the headquarters for Michelin North America, Inc. is located in Greenville, SC, a very short distance from the BMW Group Plant Spartanburg in Greer, SC.  I bet you did not know that the BMW Group Plant Spartanburg employs nearly 10,000 people, (American citizens, living in South Carolina).  That is more people than any other single U.S. automotive assembly plant.

AVB-AMG

@AVB-AMG

Uh...practice some humility.  Don't be so childish. Your experience is not the definitive guide to tires.

You've taken my comment out of context and as a personal insult.  I said, "I realize a snob is only going to buy something like Michelin, Pirelli, or Continental".  You made no references to these tires earlier so how was I directing it toward you?  FWIW I have Michelins on my Jeep and have had good experiences with Michelin in the past.  Pirellis I had sucked.  Never had Continentals on a car but the ones I had on my motorcycle were okay.

Because you have had good experiences with those three makes doesn't mean everyone has.  "Therefore, from my car ownership..." seems really pompous.  Practice some humility.

You ignore the key word in my my statement, "ONLY".  There are a lot of other good tires out there made by other manufacturers than those three.  

I attended SCCA Driving School in the 70s.  Didn't get my Regional Competition License because I finished only 3 of the 4 required races (fault of the car not mine).  I've also been through several pursuit driving courses.  I guess all that's at least almost as good as your performance driving school experience.  You state the BMW was equipped with so-so tires.  What did you expect?

Uh...yeah I did know Michelin is a French company. Also Pirelli is Italian and Continental German.  Is that supposed to be a big secret?

Please tell me what how many people BMW employs in SC has to do with tires?  FYI both Honda and Toyota employ about 28,000 each in their factories in the US.  Not all in one place.  That's all BMW has in the US.

You call my statement childish and false?  You are the only one who recommended only those three.  Is that mean you're right and everyone else is wrong?

Calm down AVB-AMG.  You turning a simple statement into a personal affront is not good for your physical or emotional health.

Is this the big education on tires you said you were going to give me in another thread?

 

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@AVB-AMG @GRIZ Boys, please!... I innocently asked whether Tire Rack was a decent source...and now you're locked in some kind of weird, chest-thumping, epic Tire Wars. Seriously... is this a testosterone thing? Cuz I don't get it. You've lost me!

Now... simmer down! Or, I'll put you both in a "Time Out"... and you'll get NO dessert either!!  (Ruh-ro... you're in big trouble now!!) :angry:

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1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

@AVB-AMG @GRIZ Boys, please!... I innocently asked whether Tire Rack was a decent source...and now you're locked in some kind of weird, chest-thumping, epic Tire Wars. Seriously... is this a testosterone thing? Cuz I don't get it. You've lost me!

Now... simmer down! Or, I'll put you both in a "Time Out"... and you'll get NO dessert either!!  (Ruh-ro... you're in big trouble now!!) :angry:

I don't get it either.  AVB-AMG seems to think anything I say is personal attack.

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8 hours ago, AVB-AMG said:

@GRIZ

FYI, In the twelve automobiles I have had in my driving lifetime, I have had firsthand experience with tires manufactured by Goodyear, Firestone, Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli and Continental, as well as the Austrian-made Semperit tires that are no longer available and one no-name Chinese manufactured tire.

 

 


 

AVB-AMG

you think that's any different than the rest of us?

 lemme tell ya what i see from a perspective of the guy that works on this shit.

 continentals for the most part dry rot much faster than any other tire out there. 'cept the michelens. michelens dry rot faster than everything out there 'cept the continentals. the ONLY contenintal i install with confidence is the "extra load" on a fleet of transit connects i service. michelens i will only install at customer request.

i like some goodyears. can't fucking stand firestones. bfgoodrich makes a decent tire. cooper, hankook, and kumho make good tires. falcon has come up to the top, although i don't install many of them.

 

 something you need to realize(and i'd have thought you knew this...guess i was wrong) is that a manufacturer doesn't put "the best tire" on the vehicle. they put the best within a specific price range, and depending on who gives them the best deal.

 

 i think griz nailed it when he made the snob comment.

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8 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

 something you need to realize(and i'd have thought you knew this...guess i was wrong) is that a manufacturer doesn't put "the best tire" on the vehicle. they put the best within a specific price range, and depending on who gives them the best deal.

 i think griz nailed it when he made the snob comment.

@1LtCAP:

The only time I have ever experienced dry rot on tires was on my 1961 M-B roadster.  When I  bought it, it still had the original Michelin X radial tires.  They were 14 years old at the time and when we put the car up on a lift, the inside sidewalls of all four tires looked like someone had taken a knife to them stabbing them repeatedly.  I bought new tires the same day.

Yes, I agree that Ford, GM and Chrysler all, for the most part, make large scale purchase deals with various tire manufacturers to provided certain size tires, usually all-season radials, for the vast majority of automobiles they sell.  The exceptions are for the low production, powerful sports cars that really do require a much better performing tire design.  One example is the 2018 Chevrolet Corvette with the ZO7 package, which specifically comes with Michelin Pilot Super Sport Cup 2 high performance tires.

This is the same approach used by the high performance divisions of the German automobile manufacturers, i.e. Mercedes-Benz AMG, BMW M-Series and all Porsches'.  They select the most appropriate high performance tires and make them their OEM tires, since they design or "tune" the chassis to those specific tires for optimal results.  That is not to say that other tires cannot be substituted, but the OEM tires will in most cases, provide the best performance.

BTW, you and GRIZ seem to be missing the point and making an unfortunate broad brushed claim about snobbishness.  As I said in my earlier post, snobbishness has nothing to do with this.  It is a matter of researching and understanding why some products (in this case tires), cost more than than other tires and what you are getting for the extra money.  I agree that there are other domestic and Asian made tires that are very good, but felt the need to offer my mostly very good experience with Michelin, Pirelli and Continental tires on my vehicles.  Your experience may be different and I respect that.

AVB-AMG

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1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

'cept the michelens. michelens dry rot faster than everything out there 'cept the continentals.

I agree with this. I'm looking for new tires for the fronts on my truck. They came with Michelins as OEM from Honda. They are 5-1/2 years old, and are totally dry rotted and cracked on the sidewalls. The rears still have a lot of tread on them, so I could push them longer, but it's the dry rot that concerns me.

I did some research and it's true, Michelin definitely has an issue with early dry rot. I liked the way these tires drove and handled, but I'm not going back to them. I don't drive as much as I use to, so these replacements will probably be on the truck for many years. Having to deal with dry rot in another handful of years isn't in the game plan, and these aren't cheap tires.

I'm also pissed that I have to replace the rears, even though the tread is fine, due to dry rot and safety concerns.

So the Cap is correct, Michelin ain't the cat's meow.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I innocently asked whether Tire Rack was a decent source...

Actually, since this thread came up and I'm shopping for tires, I went back and checked Tire Rack to see what they had. Comparing the same tires from them versus the local tire guys, tire rack was $6 less on each tire cost. Plus, on top of that there is the standard mounting, balancing, etc. which you pay no matter what.

So, for $6 more per tire, I'd rather buy from the local tire guy who will do everything. This way I have someone to go back to in case of a tire issue. Plus, I like to support the local businesses when ever possible.

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2 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

Actually, since this thread came up and I'm shopping for tires, I went back and checked Tire Rack to see what they had. Comparing the same tires from them versus the local tire guys, tire rack was $6 less on each tire cost. Plus, on top of that there is the standard mounting, balancing, etc. which you pay no matter what.

So, for $6 more per tire, I'd rather buy from the local tire guy who will do everything. This way I have someone to go back to in case of a tire issue. Plus, I like to support the local businesses when ever possible.

lot of guys won't charge the "standard mounting and balancing" when you bring your own tires, but rather they'll charge time it takes to do the work.

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2 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

I agree with this. I'm looking for new tires for the fronts on my truck. They came with Michelins as OEM from Honda. They are 5-1/2 years old, and are totally dry rotted and cracked on the sidewalls. The rears still have a lot of tread on them, so I could push them longer, but it's the dry rot that concerns me.

I did some research and it's true, Michelin definitely has an issue with early dry rot. I liked the way these tires drove and handled, but I'm not going back to them. I don't drive as much as I use to, so these replacements will probably be on the truck for many years. Having to deal with dry rot in another handful of years isn't in the game plan, and these aren't cheap tires.

I'm also pissed that I have to replace the rears, even though the tread is fine, due to dry rot and safety concerns.

So the Cap is correct, Michelin ain't the cat's meow.

 

 

i've seen it a ton on continentals too. i've seen them so bad that there's adeep crack following along the bead on the rim, but about a quarter inch out. it's scary shit. i've seen them both do it in less than 2 years. yet....i've got eldorados(cooper sub company) on my expedition. 4 years going, and not a sign of dry rot. or bad wear. and the truck handles dam good.

 if one were really doing their research they'd find that there's many viable alternatives to the big names that will perform right there with them.

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14 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

lot of guys won't charge the "standard mounting and balancing" when you bring your own tires, but rather they'll charge time it takes to do the work.

The point is, you'll be charged something on top of the tire cost, but if you have a warranty tire issue, who takes responsibility? I'd rather not have to fight the "He said - She said" of finger pointing on a tire issue.

 

 

15 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

 if one were really doing their research they'd find that there's many viable alternatives to the big names that will perform right there with them.

I put Goodyears on my wife's SUV a few years ago, and they have no issues and she hasn't screwed them up, so I'm considering those for my truck. She's pretty brutal on vehicles. :)

 

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2 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

The point is, you'll be charged something on top of the tire cost, but if you have a warranty tire issue, who takes responsibility? I'd rather not have to fight the "He said - She said" of finger pointing on a tire issue.

 

 

I put Goodyears on my wife's SUV a few years ago, and they have no issues and she hasn't screwed them up, so I'm considering those for my truck. She's pretty brutal on vehicles. :)

 

I'D used the eldorados on my truck 'cause i had a customer came in requesting those. i liked them to the point where i put them on many customers cars, and everyone loved them......when i needed a set of LT's those were affordable. they're fan-fucking-tastic in any weather condition too.

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On 8/11/2018 at 9:58 PM, capt14k said:

Shame that so many won't give their local small business a shot first. Usually auto shop can order any tire and the total comes out cheaper than tire rack or Amazon after installation and disposal is factored in. Costco when they have a $70 off 4 tires deal is usually the cheapest route. When you buy from Amazon or Tire Rack if there is a problem you may or may not get the tire replaced for free, but even if you do you are paying to have it changed. Costco or good local shop will cover everything. Auto shops should charge their regular mount fee plus their lost profit on the sale of the tires for any tires that the customer provides.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

A lot of tire places actually buy there tires from a Tire Rack Distributor.... literally. They charge the same price as tirerack, you can order your tires right to them. I have an installer 5 mins from my house.

 

IMO, screw Costco. They are not what I consider a local business.

I like Goodyear, I have the MT/R Kevlars on my Jeep... I cant even begin to describe the abuse those tires have seen. Hankook tires are really good too, and on the cheaper side for performance tires. I recently purchase Nokian tires for my Jeeps winter set up, and they did wonderful this past winter. The  best snow tires inhave used were dunlops though. But they don't make large enough tire. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Zeke said:

@Mrs. Peelare you running winter air in the summer?:facepalm:

If I had any idea what that meant... I'd answer it! LOL.

I buy all-season tires, if that's what you mean...? I just don't have the right storage situation at my house to have 2 sets of tires. 

Color me confused! Or are you talking about the air pressure in the tires? Ummm, yeah... I let my mechanic worry about that when I bring the car in for oil changes. That's how a "real chick" handles her car's tires. We outsource it!!

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41 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

If I had any idea what that meant... I'd answer it! LOL.

I buy all-season tires, if that's what you mean...? I just don't have the right storage situation at my house to have 2 sets of tires. 

Color me confused! Or are you talking about the air pressure in the tires? Ummm, yeah... I let my mechanic worry about that when I bring the car in for oil changes. That's how a "real chick" handles her car's tires. We outsource it!!

You have to switch the air minimum 2x a year. Summer air, winter air. @1LtCAP knows..

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1 hour ago, Zeke said:

You have to switch the air minimum 2x a year. Summer air, winter air. @1LtCAP knows..

I don't believe you! Or Sniper22. I think you're both messing with me. You don't need to "change the air" in the tires. That's utterly ridiculous! I may not know a lot about tires, but I'm not a dumb bunny, ya know! :angry:

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