Paperguynj

Mental health check

35 posts in this topic

I recently moved back to NJ and have to get my FID card. I went to the police station in my town and asked if I could have my old card transferred from the original PD and they told me I had to apply all over. In 2009 I was hospitalized voluntarily for depression while going through a divorce. I was not medicated and quickly realeased. On the application it asks for this info, will this disqualify me to get an FID card?  Before I go hrough the process should I speak to an attorney?  I have not had any issues since and do not suffer from any mental health disorders. I just had a bad month when I was getting divorced. 

 

Please keep in in mind I went to the hospital on my own will and was released two days later.  

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“I’m not a lawyer, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn once” isn't there a joke along that line?

Seriously, my opinion, there are/will be consequences to documenting that information on a firearms permit application. Again in my opinion, it would be much more economical to invest in a professional opinion rather that trying to  undue a mistake following poor (unprofessional) leagal advice. 

There is an ad for FREE leagal advice on NJ Firearms law for ANJRPC members, if you are not a member (again my opinion, you/we all should be), it’s only $40 annual fee.....a small price to pay for reliable information.

Good luck with this, I’m glad you got the help you needed ..... if you get a chance, come back and let us know how things worked out....

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as a general rule it is always best not to over disclose things.

i am not a lawyer, however if it were me i wouldn't disclose.

you may want to seek legal counsel of someone who has knowledge of nj firearm "laws" before moving further, because if you do not disclose and you get denied that becomes a black stain on you

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I am not a lawyer, and this is not advise in any way but I would think it will come up on your mental health back round check.

When you fill out the application that ask you for your address of residence for the past 10 years +/-

The send a request to each of the county's Mental Health Depts.you lived in requesting information...................

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I don't know the answer, but I do know that the definition of mental illness in New Jerwey is getting more vague and ambiguous.  By you account, and by living in a state with vague laws on this topic, you may.have met the criteria for mental illness.  But check into it further by seeking legal advice.

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18 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

I am not a lawyer, and this is not advise in any way but I would think it will come up on your mental health back round check.

When you fill out the application that ask you for your address of residence for the past 10 years +/-

The send a request to each of the county's Mental Health Depts.you lived in requesting information...................

I am pretty sure the documentation on involuntary commitments is kept at the county adjusters office as well..

 

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7 minutes ago, father-of-three said:

but I do know that the definition of mental illness in New Jerwey is getting more vague and ambiguous

the national move seems to be to declare all opposition to certain beliefs as mentally unhealthy.

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Wow, I’m going to ask on a public internet forum whether or not I should lie on an application for firearms?  Really?  It’s not as if this searchable.  IANAL, consult an actual lawyer for advice.  Lying on your form may be more of a reason to disqualify than self commitment for treatment.  

This also lacks important details—which I can understand if you don’t want to share.  Did you contemplate hurting yourself or committing suicide?  Committing yourself to a mental health facility can’t have been the result of being a bit down. 

Let me distill this down   My first post on a gun forum is I have a suspect mental health background and if I lie to get a gun will I get caught?

I know guys I’m a paranoid asshole—flame away but at least I’m consistent. 

Mods feel free to delete my post if you feel I’m out of line.  Normally I’m a real sweetheart. 

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15 minutes ago, Rob0115 said:

Wow, I’m going to ask on a public internet forum whether or not I should lie on an application for firearms?  Really?  It’s not as if this searchable.  IANAL, consult an actual lawyer for advice.  Lying on your form may be more of a reason to disqualify than self commitment for treatment.  

This also lacks important details—which I can understand if you don’t want to share.  Did you contemplate hurting yourself or committing suicide?  Committing yourself to a mental health facility can’t have been the result of being a bit down. 

Let me distill this down   My first post on a gun forum is I have a suspect mental health background and if I lie to get a gun will I get caught?

I know guys I’m a paranoid asshole—flame away but at least I’m consistent. 

Mods feel free to delete my post if you feel I’m out of line.  Normally I’m a real sweetheart. 

I don’t think I said anywhere in my question that I would lie. I was as asking if being hospitalized is a definite disqualification for a permit. I figured before I go speak to an attorney I would reach out to the forum to see if anyone has had any experience with a similar situation. I would never lie on an application. 

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No, you're not out of line.  "Paperguynj" may be legit and just unsure of the traps and pitfalls of NJ law-we all know they are many-or he may be a newspaper troll looking for fodder for a hatchet piece. Sad, but that is where years of libtards in the statehouse have brought us to.

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19 minutes ago, Paperguynj said:

I don’t think I said anywhere in my question that I would lie. I was as asking if being hospitalized is a definite disqualification for a permit. I figured before I go speak to an attorney I would reach out to the forum to see if anyone has had any experience with a similar situation. I would never lie on an application. 

(24) Have you ever been confined or committed to a mental institution or hospital for treatment or observation of a mental or psychiatric condition on a temporary, interim, or permanent basis? If yes, give the name and location of the institution or hospital and the date(s) of such confinement or commitment.

 

Again IANAL and you should consult one to get accurate legal advice, but it seems to be truthful you need to answer yes to question 24 on the ST-33.  The form seems pretty clear to me.  I’m guessing you’ll be denied and be will required to get a letter from a health professional stating you are not a danger to yourself or others.  

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It is probably best to get this resolved as soon as possible as the requirements and definitions of mental health issues are only going to become more broad in this F'd up state.   From what you said you will need to get a letter from a doctor or psychiatrist that states you no longer suffer from what ever you admitted yourself for and attach it to your application.  If you can not get one or their are no records available from the hospital you will need to get a DR. to evaluate you and write a report to be submitted with your application.    In your circumstance since you admitted your self you will at this point need to get an attorney.  Depending on what town your in and how anti-gun they are will determine how much money you will have to spend.   It is BEST to utilize a DR who is familiar with NJ gun law to evaluate you as they know exactly how to do this.     It would be best to have any eval done PRIOR to applying and dont leave them any wiggle room, make sure your eval shuts them down at every turn.   

I'm sure by the end of murphys term sts33 will be about 12 pages long and a REQUIREMENT to be evaluated by DR.  

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(24) Have you ever been confined or committed to a mental institution or hospital for treatment or observation of a mental or psychiatric condition on a temporary, interim, or permanent basis? If yes, give the name and location of the institution or hospital and the date(s) of such confinement or commitment.
 
Again IANAL and you should consult one to get accurate legal advice, but it seems to be truthful you need to answer yes to question 24 on the ST-33.  The form seems pretty clear to me.  I’m guessing you’ll be denied and be will required to get a letter from a health professional stating you are not a danger to yourself or others.  


I agree. He has to answer that question yes. Which means he will get denied til he can get a current clean bill of mental health from a psychiatrist. Your PCP will not count. Good luck with that.


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23 hours ago, Rob0115 said:

(24) Have you ever been confined or committed to a mental institution or hospital for treatment or observation of a mental or psychiatric condition on a temporary, interim, or permanent basis?

I read this as NON voluntary. 

If you voluntarily seek help, you can voluntarily leave.  Therefore you are not confined.  Is there a court order commiting you? If not, you were not commited.

Question 26 however, you definitely have a YES.

I don't think, this is an immediate disqualifier, as this covers anyone that ever saw a shrink.

IANAL, but talking to one about your particulars is a really good idea.

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Just now, PeteF said:

I read this as NON voluntary. 

If you voluntarily seek help, you can voluntarily leave.  Therefore you are not confined.  Is there a court order commiting you? If not, you were not commited.

Question 26 however, you definitely have a YES.

I don't think, this is an immediate disqualifier, as this covers anyone that ever saw a shrink.

IANAL, but talking to one about your particulars is a really good idea.

 Don’t see where it says non-voluntary. Non-voluntary commitments can turn into involuntary commitments on diagnosis.  OP needs to discuss with a lawyer.  

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2 hours ago, Rob0115 said:

 Don’t see where it says non-voluntary. Non-voluntary commitments can turn into involuntary commitments on diagnosis.  OP needs to discuss with a lawyer.  

If you can leave when you feel like it you are not confined.  You can't just walk out after being commited.

Once you are there, not of your free will, you have been confined or commited.

We agree, a lawyer is required.

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15 minutes ago, PeteF said:

If you can leave when you feel like it you are not confined.  You can't just walk out after being commited.

Once you are there, not of your free will, you have been confined or commited.

We agree, a lawyer is required.

I agree with this.  He was not confined (kept there against his volition) nor was he committed.  He went voluntarily and left voluntarily.

 

For 26, was he diagnosed for clinical depression or did he just feel bad?  Technically it should be a mental or psychiatric condition.

He needs to talk to a lawyer.

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Definitely speak to a laywer Question 24 says nothing about voluntary or involuntary.  I'm guessing this needs to be answered yes, will result in denial and require sign off from a mental health professional IMHO.

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17 hours ago, Zeke said:

interesting... 

..." and was prescribed anti-psychotic and anti-depressant medications, "

Actually, it seems to be the norm lately. Plus, he's a Trump hater... imagine that, another deranged Democrat voter/shooter...

The report was he bought both handguns legally and locally from a dealer in Maryland. What about those questions on the 4473 form?  Hmmmm....

 

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