Paperguynj 0 Posted August 20, 2018 I recently moved back to NJ and have to get my FID card. I went to the police station in my town and asked if I could have my old card transferred from the original PD and they told me I had to apply all over. In 2009 I was hospitalized voluntarily for depression while going through a divorce. I was not medicated and quickly realeased. On the application it asks for this info, will this disqualify me to get an FID card? Before I go hrough the process should I speak to an attorney? I have not had any issues since and do not suffer from any mental health disorders. I just had a bad month when I was getting divorced. Please keep in in mind I went to the hospital on my own will and was released two days later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nucrunner 75 Posted August 20, 2018 “I’m not a lawyer, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn once” isn't there a joke along that line? Seriously, my opinion, there are/will be consequences to documenting that information on a firearms permit application. Again in my opinion, it would be much more economical to invest in a professional opinion rather that trying to undue a mistake following poor (unprofessional) leagal advice. There is an ad for FREE leagal advice on NJ Firearms law for ANJRPC members, if you are not a member (again my opinion, you/we all should be), it’s only $40 annual fee.....a small price to pay for reliable information. Good luck with this, I’m glad you got the help you needed ..... if you get a chance, come back and let us know how things worked out.... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuRrEaLNJ 294 Posted August 20, 2018 as a general rule it is always best not to over disclose things. i am not a lawyer, however if it were me i wouldn't disclose. you may want to seek legal counsel of someone who has knowledge of nj firearm "laws" before moving further, because if you do not disclose and you get denied that becomes a black stain on you 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted August 20, 2018 There is an appeals process for denial, and consequences for falsifying information. But you’re the artist Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted August 20, 2018 I'll give you advice. DON'T DISCLOSE IT. It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission. Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 956 Posted August 20, 2018 I am not a lawyer, and this is not advise in any way but I would think it will come up on your mental health back round check. When you fill out the application that ask you for your address of residence for the past 10 years +/- The send a request to each of the county's Mental Health Depts.you lived in requesting information................... 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,222 Posted August 21, 2018 Youll be good. They havent got me yet 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuRrEaLNJ 294 Posted August 21, 2018 youd be surprised what dosnt come up in the check Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
father-of-three 235 Posted August 21, 2018 I don't know the answer, but I do know that the definition of mental illness in New Jerwey is getting more vague and ambiguous. By you account, and by living in a state with vague laws on this topic, you may.have met the criteria for mental illness. But check into it further by seeking legal advice. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
father-of-three 235 Posted August 21, 2018 18 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said: I am not a lawyer, and this is not advise in any way but I would think it will come up on your mental health back round check. When you fill out the application that ask you for your address of residence for the past 10 years +/- The send a request to each of the county's Mental Health Depts.you lived in requesting information................... I am pretty sure the documentation on involuntary commitments is kept at the county adjusters office as well.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuRrEaLNJ 294 Posted August 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, father-of-three said: but I do know that the definition of mental illness in New Jerwey is getting more vague and ambiguous the national move seems to be to declare all opposition to certain beliefs as mentally unhealthy. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paperguynj 0 Posted August 21, 2018 34 minutes ago, father-of-three said: I am pretty sure the documentation on involuntary commitments is kept at the county adjusters office as well.. I admitted myself and was released in two days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
father-of-three 235 Posted August 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Paperguynj said: I admitted myself and was released in two days. Understood. The adjusters office is one of the places law enforcement can check for mental health records. That's all. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted August 21, 2018 Advice on the intronet is worth exactly what you pay for it.. but let us know how it goes, and what you disclosed or did not disclose. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted August 26, 2018 Wow, I’m going to ask on a public internet forum whether or not I should lie on an application for firearms? Really? It’s not as if this searchable. IANAL, consult an actual lawyer for advice. Lying on your form may be more of a reason to disqualify than self commitment for treatment. This also lacks important details—which I can understand if you don’t want to share. Did you contemplate hurting yourself or committing suicide? Committing yourself to a mental health facility can’t have been the result of being a bit down. Let me distill this down My first post on a gun forum is I have a suspect mental health background and if I lie to get a gun will I get caught? I know guys I’m a paranoid asshole—flame away but at least I’m consistent. Mods feel free to delete my post if you feel I’m out of line. Normally I’m a real sweetheart. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paperguynj 0 Posted August 26, 2018 15 minutes ago, Rob0115 said: Wow, I’m going to ask on a public internet forum whether or not I should lie on an application for firearms? Really? It’s not as if this searchable. IANAL, consult an actual lawyer for advice. Lying on your form may be more of a reason to disqualify than self commitment for treatment. This also lacks important details—which I can understand if you don’t want to share. Did you contemplate hurting yourself or committing suicide? Committing yourself to a mental health facility can’t have been the result of being a bit down. Let me distill this down My first post on a gun forum is I have a suspect mental health background and if I lie to get a gun will I get caught? I know guys I’m a paranoid asshole—flame away but at least I’m consistent. Mods feel free to delete my post if you feel I’m out of line. Normally I’m a real sweetheart. I don’t think I said anywhere in my question that I would lie. I was as asking if being hospitalized is a definite disqualification for a permit. I figured before I go speak to an attorney I would reach out to the forum to see if anyone has had any experience with a similar situation. I would never lie on an application. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted August 26, 2018 No, you're not out of line. "Paperguynj" may be legit and just unsure of the traps and pitfalls of NJ law-we all know they are many-or he may be a newspaper troll looking for fodder for a hatchet piece. Sad, but that is where years of libtards in the statehouse have brought us to. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted August 26, 2018 19 minutes ago, Paperguynj said: I don’t think I said anywhere in my question that I would lie. I was as asking if being hospitalized is a definite disqualification for a permit. I figured before I go speak to an attorney I would reach out to the forum to see if anyone has had any experience with a similar situation. I would never lie on an application. (24) Have you ever been confined or committed to a mental institution or hospital for treatment or observation of a mental or psychiatric condition on a temporary, interim, or permanent basis? If yes, give the name and location of the institution or hospital and the date(s) of such confinement or commitment. Again IANAL and you should consult one to get accurate legal advice, but it seems to be truthful you need to answer yes to question 24 on the ST-33. The form seems pretty clear to me. I’m guessing you’ll be denied and be will required to get a letter from a health professional stating you are not a danger to yourself or others. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revenger 472 Posted August 26, 2018 It is probably best to get this resolved as soon as possible as the requirements and definitions of mental health issues are only going to become more broad in this F'd up state. From what you said you will need to get a letter from a doctor or psychiatrist that states you no longer suffer from what ever you admitted yourself for and attach it to your application. If you can not get one or their are no records available from the hospital you will need to get a DR. to evaluate you and write a report to be submitted with your application. In your circumstance since you admitted your self you will at this point need to get an attorney. Depending on what town your in and how anti-gun they are will determine how much money you will have to spend. It is BEST to utilize a DR who is familiar with NJ gun law to evaluate you as they know exactly how to do this. It would be best to have any eval done PRIOR to applying and dont leave them any wiggle room, make sure your eval shuts them down at every turn. I'm sure by the end of murphys term sts33 will be about 12 pages long and a REQUIREMENT to be evaluated by DR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted August 27, 2018 (24) Have you ever been confined or committed to a mental institution or hospital for treatment or observation of a mental or psychiatric condition on a temporary, interim, or permanent basis? If yes, give the name and location of the institution or hospital and the date(s) of such confinement or commitment. Again IANAL and you should consult one to get accurate legal advice, but it seems to be truthful you need to answer yes to question 24 on the ST-33. The form seems pretty clear to me. I’m guessing you’ll be denied and be will required to get a letter from a health professional stating you are not a danger to yourself or others. I agree. He has to answer that question yes. Which means he will get denied til he can get a current clean bill of mental health from a psychiatrist. Your PCP will not count. Good luck with that. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted August 27, 2018 Question 11f on the ATF form 4473 is a similar question as well. So this may result in delays at POS if you are cleared for an FPID. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteF 1,044 Posted August 27, 2018 23 hours ago, Rob0115 said: (24) Have you ever been confined or committed to a mental institution or hospital for treatment or observation of a mental or psychiatric condition on a temporary, interim, or permanent basis? I read this as NON voluntary. If you voluntarily seek help, you can voluntarily leave. Therefore you are not confined. Is there a court order commiting you? If not, you were not commited. Question 26 however, you definitely have a YES. I don't think, this is an immediate disqualifier, as this covers anyone that ever saw a shrink. IANAL, but talking to one about your particulars is a really good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted August 27, 2018 Just now, PeteF said: I read this as NON voluntary. If you voluntarily seek help, you can voluntarily leave. Therefore you are not confined. Is there a court order commiting you? If not, you were not commited. Question 26 however, you definitely have a YES. I don't think, this is an immediate disqualifier, as this covers anyone that ever saw a shrink. IANAL, but talking to one about your particulars is a really good idea. Don’t see where it says non-voluntary. Non-voluntary commitments can turn into involuntary commitments on diagnosis. OP needs to discuss with a lawyer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteF 1,044 Posted August 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Rob0115 said: Don’t see where it says non-voluntary. Non-voluntary commitments can turn into involuntary commitments on diagnosis. OP needs to discuss with a lawyer. If you can leave when you feel like it you are not confined. You can't just walk out after being commited. Once you are there, not of your free will, you have been confined or commited. We agree, a lawyer is required. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GunsnFreedom 245 Posted August 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, PeteF said: If you can leave when you feel like it you are not confined. You can't just walk out after being commited. Once you are there, not of your free will, you have been confined or commited. We agree, a lawyer is required. I agree with this. He was not confined (kept there against his volition) nor was he committed. He went voluntarily and left voluntarily. For 26, was he diagnosed for clinical depression or did he just feel bad? Technically it should be a mental or psychiatric condition. He needs to talk to a lawyer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted August 27, 2018 Definitely speak to a laywer Question 24 says nothing about voluntary or involuntary. I'm guessing this needs to be answered yes, will result in denial and require sign off from a mental health professional IMHO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted August 27, 2018 http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/27/jacksonville-gaming-tournament-shooter-had-been-hospitalized-for-mental-illness-documents-show.html interesting... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted August 28, 2018 16 hours ago, Zeke said: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/27/jacksonville-gaming-tournament-shooter-had-been-hospitalized-for-mental-illness-documents-show.html interesting... I think it was 6 times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lambo2936 297 Posted August 28, 2018 Jesus christ. And again theyll blame guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted August 28, 2018 17 hours ago, Zeke said: interesting... ..." and was prescribed anti-psychotic and anti-depressant medications, " Actually, it seems to be the norm lately. Plus, he's a Trump hater... imagine that, another deranged Democrat voter/shooter... The report was he bought both handguns legally and locally from a dealer in Maryland. What about those questions on the 4473 form? Hmmmm.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites