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Greasing your AR???

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On 8/24/2018 at 2:56 PM, GRIZ said:

I have used M16s, ARs, and M4s for 50 years.  I have never used grease on them.  50 years ago the military was issuing LSA (a thick oil) which was replaced by Break Free CLP. They both work well although as someone else said somebody will come up with some wonder lube.  The fact is if it works no harm done.

@GRIZ:

I seem to recall from an earlier post of yours that you had used Breakfree CLP for quite a long time, before you switched to something else?  Whatever works for you and has worked for you is fine....  As you point out, modern science and technology has and will continue to generate "new and improved" products for this purpose.

For those who are curious, there are numerous products on the market that are made specifically to Clean, Lubricate and Protect (CLP) firearms, as well as lubricants intended for other applications, (i.e. Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil).  Most of them work just fine for firearms and the important thing is to use them on a regular basis.  Yet, I am also aware that over lubrication can be worse than no lubrication, as it can collect debris and cause fouling internally and potentially lead to a malfunction. 

I was taught that how you lubricate your firearm really depends on two important variables: one is what the environmental conditions are when you are shooting and the other is just how tight the fit is of the moving parts of the gun.  Historically and generally speaking, grease has performed better in hot and wet conditions whereas oil seems to work better in very cold conditions, where some grease can turn into the consistency of bubble gum.  For storage, grease seems to be preferred since it is a better rust inhibitor.  So that, along with a thin coat of silicone on the metal exterior parts will usually combat the natural corrosiveness of humidity over time.

FWIW, my preference is to use separate products to clean, lubricate and protect my firearms, instead of using one product that claims to do all of the above (CLP), such as Ballistol multi-use spray or Break Free CLP.  While these products may work fine for some folks, I do not believe that one size fits all.  I find it hard to believe that one product will do as good a job of cleaning, lubricating and protecting all parts of a firearm, as compared to different products that are formulated to do one specific task and do it really well.

AVB-AMG

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44 minutes ago, AVB-AMG said:

@GRIZ:

I seem to recall from an earlier post of yours that you had used Breakfree CLP for quite a long time, before you switched to something else?  Whatever works for you and has worked for you is fine....  As you point out, modern science and technology has and will continue to generate "new and improved" products for this purpose.

For those who are curious, there are numerous products on the market that are made specifically to Clean, Lubricate and Protect (CLP) firearms, as well as lubricants intended for other applications, (i.e. Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil).  Most of them work just fine for firearms and the important thing is to use them on a regular basis.  Yet, I am also aware that over lubrication can be worse than no lubrication, as it can collect debris and cause fouling internally and potentially lead to a malfunction. 

I was taught that how you lubricate your firearm really depends on two important variables: one is what the environmental conditions are when you are shooting and the other is just how tight the fit is of the moving parts of the gun.  Historically and generally speaking, grease has performed better in hot and wet conditions whereas oil seems to work better in very cold conditions, where some grease can turn into the consistency of bubble gum.  For storage, grease seems to be preferred since it is a better rust inhibitor.  So that, along with a thin coat of silicone on the metal exterior parts will usually combat the natural corrosiveness of humidity over time.

FWIW, my preference is to use separate products to clean, lubricate and protect my firearms, instead of using one product that claims to do all of the above (CLP), such as Ballistol multi-use spray or Break Free CLP.  While these products may work fine for some folks, I do not believe that one size fits all.  I find it hard to believe that one product will do as good a job of cleaning, lubricating and protecting all parts of a firearm, as compared to different products that are formulated to do one specific task and do it really well.

AVB-AMG

The military switched to Break Free CLP back in the 80s IIRC. I am in agreement with you asking something to CLP is a lot.  I don't think Breakfree CLP cleans as well as Hoppes 9 especially shooting lead.  

I still use the old Breakfree CLP to lube guns. It also does a decent job as a protectorant IMO.  I have taken out guns I have put in storage treated with CLP and stored several years with no rust issues. They also ran 100% with no extra lube applied  Old Break Free contains teflon.  The teflon just sits there once it's applied.

I do use different lubes on different things.  G96 is old tech but isn't bad as a CLP.  I use it more as a cleaner.

I use Ballistol on wood stocked firearms like lever actions as it's not going to harm the wood.  Dri Slide on ARs for lube.  Dri Slide lubes well at all temperatures as once the vehicle evaporates it's dry.

I only use grease on Garands.

All of which may seem a bit much but it's what works for me.  I probably could "get by" using any if the CLP but that wouldn't be optimal for me.

I do agree with you that one should tailor the product to the job.

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On 8/29/2018 at 7:08 AM, kman said:

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NO!

It gums up into a varnish when heavily applied and left to dry. This is bad, dangerously so in some fire control groups. 

Same thing for beoshield T-9. 

Outside of the gun? Your business, might even work for doing something. Inside.. be careful and it's simpler to just avoid both products. 

My $0.02 on lubes. 

1) If you have a grease you can put a blob on a smooth flat surface, flip it so the surface is now on the vfertical, and the blob doesn't stay put, it shouldn't be used where you want grease. Grease is for things where you want the lube to stick around more or less in applied quanities for extended periods. 

2) Buy a dedicated solvent. Most CL or CLP products do between a middling to crappy job at the cleaning portion. For my sanity I keep a decent general solvent, and a dedicated copper/plastic solvent around. 

3) Most everything advertised as a lube will work as a lube, there's not much point arguing over it. The only real questions IMO are how long before you have no lube left, and how much did it cost you. The more often you clean and lube your guns, the less you care what you buy.  If your collection is large enough not everything gets frequent attention, or you would rather be shooting or practicing than cleaning, you care more. 

4) If it looks more like a tub of car wax than anything else. Don't buy it. It's a shit lube and I have yet to meet something gun specific that matches this description that wasn't ludicrously overpriced to start with. 

5) I have yet to find a protectant that is all that great. My real world need is to protect my competition guns with a wipe down after a summer match where they get handled with sweaty hands and perhaps dripped on with sweat. So far nothing is awesome and the prize goes to whatever comes in a pump form in sufficient quantities I can saturate surfaces that are metal and get touched easily. 

6) If it tells you it builds up a defensive barrier over multiple applications and time, just avoid it. Even if it isn't a pile of bullshit, it's a waste of your time. 

The only lubes I will flat out tell you not to buy are 

Any grease in a syringe that looks like oil when used - it's a waste of your money if you need grease. 

Boeshield t-9. Like I said at the start, this thing can do bad stuff in fire control groups. It also can get gummy and sticky if you leave too much on a surface. It's nearly impossible NOT to leave too much on a surface if that surface is matte bead blasted and parkerized. Works decent as a protectant on my polished blued guns that spend too much time in the safe. 

Froglube paste. That shit is awful for the price. Just total crap. The reason it has the most extensive instructions for any lube anywhere is so they can tell you it working like crap is your fault for not using it right. 

militec-1. I got a free sample of this shit at a match and other than it's oily feel, from a protectant standpoint it might as well have been bottled salt solution. 

 

 

 

 

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On 8/28/2018 at 10:40 PM, GRIZ said:

The military switched to Break Free CLP back in the 80s IIRC. I am in agreement with you asking something to CLP is a lot.  I don't think Breakfree CLP cleans as well as Hoppes 9 especially shooting lead.  

I still use the old Breakfree CLP to lube guns. It also does a decent job as a protectorant IMO.  I have taken out guns I have put in storage treated with CLP and stored several years with no rust issues. They also ran 100% with no extra lube applied  Old Break Free contains teflon.  The teflon just sits there once it's applied.

I do use different lubes on different things.  G96 is old tech but isn't bad as a CLP.  I use it more as a cleaner.

I use Ballistol on wood stocked firearms like lever actions as it's not going to harm the wood.  Dri Slide on ARs for lube.  Dri Slide lubes well at all temperatures as once the vehicle evaporates it's dry.

I only use grease on Garands.

All of which may seem a bit much but it's what works for me.  I probably could "get by" using any if the CLP but that wouldn't be optimal for me.

I do agree with you that one should tailor the product to the job.

I was given a case of Break Free CLP bottles along with a 1 gallon jug in the late 1980's that I got from a friend that was an armorer.  This is the original Teflon stuff and that is what I use for lubing my guns (except for grease on the reveiver of the  Garand, M1A and Mini14).  I prefer Hoppe's solvent for cleaning.  Never had an issue with this combination. I have tried some of the newer wonder lubes and was not impressed enough to switch.

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33 minutes ago, JC_68Westy said:

I was given a case of Break Free CLP bottles along with a 1 gallon jug in the late 1980's that I got from a friend that was an armorer.  This is the original Teflon stuff and that is what I use for lubing my guns (except for grease on the reveiver of the  Garand, M1A and Mini14).  I prefer Hoppe's solvent for cleaning.  Never had an issue with this combination. I have tried some of the newer wonder lubes and was not impressed enough to switch.

Same here.

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Dredging up a slightly older thread, I'm wondering if there's a reason no one suggests or protests the use of silicone lubricants. In the world of tools and household items, I have found it better than W-D 40, and useful in place of oils in some applications to help with many metal to metal friction reducing needs.

When it's sprayed and allowed to dry, the propellant dries away and the film left behind doesn't seem to attract dust and dirt like many other products. Window and door points like hinges, roller wheels, cranks, etc.

Hand tools like crescent wrenches, channel locks, Yankee screwdrivers and pushdrills (remember those?) like the silicone stuffs. I squirt some into the edges of socket ratchet drivers too, sometimes, to lube the ratcheting mechanisms.

Teflon, also, as someone else mentioned, does  well in these areas.

I use several types of grease on garage door rollers due to it's adherence qualities. Wheel bearing grease seems to hold up pretty well, and costs far less than the stuff sold in stores that is labeled as for garage wheels. And I fall back on the silicone to get the into the ball bearings in the posts of those wheels.

Can anyone speak to these points about silicone for someone not as well-informed on the firearm  side of things? 

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I used to use reg gun oil, But then i came across SLip2000 EWL and never looked back. I perfer this over reg oil, as it sticks and last longer in my opinion. I can clean and lube and let the ar sit threw winter and when i go back to the range after winter its still lubed and ready for some freedom rings.

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3 hours ago, 345Sire said:

Dredging up a slightly older thread, I'm wondering if there's a reason no one suggests or protests the use of silicone lubricants. In the world of tools and household items, I have found it better than W-D 40, and useful in place of oils in some applications to help with many metal to metal friction reducing needs.

When it's sprayed and allowed to dry, the propellant dries away and the film left behind doesn't seem to attract dust and dirt like many other products. Window and door points like hinges, roller wheels, cranks, etc.

Hand tools like crescent wrenches, channel locks, Yankee screwdrivers and pushdrills (remember those?) like the silicone stuffs. I squirt some into the edges of socket ratchet drivers too, sometimes, to lube the ratcheting mechanisms.

Teflon, also, as someone else mentioned, does  well in these areas.

I use several types of grease on garage door rollers due to it's adherence qualities. Wheel bearing grease seems to hold up pretty well, and costs far less than the stuff sold in stores that is labeled as for garage wheels. And I fall back on the silicone to get the into the ball bearings in the posts of those wheels.

Can anyone speak to these points about silicone for someone not as well-informed on the firearm  side of things? 

Most silicon lubes boil at about 400 degrees Fahrenheit.  While you might get by using then on a handgun I think a bolt on an AR gets at least that hot during rapid fire.  

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On 8/24/2018 at 2:56 PM, GRIZ said:

I have used M16s, ARs, and M4s for 50 years.  I have never used grease on them.  50 years ago the military was issuing LSA (a thick oil) which was replaced by Break Free CLP. They both work well although as someone else said somebody will come up with some wonder lube.  The fact is if it works no harm done.

When I lube any gun I put a few drops of lube and slop it around with a small brush (flux or paint brush) so it's shiny not dripping.  I even put a thin coat on non-contact surfaces.  I found this makes the gun bit easier to clean as the crap falls on lube instead of just metal.  I put a wet coating of lube on contact points.  Extra drippy lube on the cam pin.  These will wear fast if not well lubed (especially with automatic fire).

My favorite lube for the AR platform is Dri Slide I started using it about the same time I started using the M16.  It's molydendum disulfide in a vehicle that evaporates leaving a black film over the part you've applied it to.  You just squirt it on the part and in a few seconds the liquid vehicle evaporates.  The best thing about it is nothing sticks to it.  It doesnt wash off with water.  If you drop the bolt in sand after squirting Dri Slide all over it a few shakes makes all the sand fall off.  It's about $90 a gallon now but that will last most people years.  During a year in Vietnam I used 2 cases of 12 4 oz cans and left a few cans when I went home. That included letting other guys use it at times, more than a few M60s, and my M16 got cleaned maybe a couple of times a day.  It also worked pretty good freeing up rusted nuts and bolts.

The only problem with it is if you use it to lube a carry gun you'll wind up with black stains (that don't wash out) on your clothes.  On something like an AR where all the moving parts are enclosed you don't have that problem.  It also is great for lubing motorcycle chains.

The only firearm I use grease on is Garands and similar actions like a M14.  That's because that's what they were designed to run on.  I use Mobil 1 grease.  I like the red color as it's easy to see on the part and when it gets dirty.  It also doesn't thicken up in the cold.  In this application you can get away using any kind of grease.  Wheel bearing grease,  silicon grease, bacon grease,  ear wax, they all will work. Some better than others.

As has been said - I like LSA - cheap from SARCO, I bought 3 quarts 10 years ago, if memory serves and havent even made a serious dent... and I like any high temp grease for my M1/M1A's.

I have also used grease on my AR with success as well as pistols.  YMMV.

Remember one thing - your not going into combat, well yet - but a cleaning regimen will still apply then as well as a range gun.  Any type of viscous material can attract dirt grime dust sand etc.  Just always be ready to clean em and you should be good to go.

 

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Dredging up a slightly older thread, I'm wondering if there's a reason no one suggests or protests the use of silicone lubricants. In the world of tools and household items, I have found it better than W-D 40, and useful in place of oils in some applications to help with many metal to metal friction reducing needs.

 

Do you use it on tools with high temperature? I believe silicone lubricant has a maximum temperature rating of like 400 degrees. Inside a D/I bolt group, you can get above that.

 

I’m actually switching to Cherry Balmz... waiting on the stuff to actually arrive. My guy Rudy at Macon Armory turned me onto it. Was having issues with my D/I .45, which was burning oil from inside the bolt (gas ring area). Was causing some issues with locking back/jamming... which I thought was related to the buffer. The gas on the .45 is too hot for normal lube to last... considering the gas block is just in front of the upper receiver. But I’m likely going to change across the board, including my piston 5.56mm.

 

It is sort of like a grease. The owner of the company did some Q&A on AR15.com a few months back... think it was a comparison thread between it and SlideGlide. Might be a good read, even if you don’t go with it. Gave some gas temperature readings, from within the gas system, and really put temperatures into perspective.

 

Lubes... you see a lot of fads. I do have to say that I both see a lot of user recommendations with Cherry Balmz, and recommendations not coming from paid members of the industry. A five bottle pack cost me about $40, and can pick any combo you want. I got three of their Black Rifle Balm, and then two of Winter Balm (to cover my ARs up in Maine).

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39 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

As has been said - I like LSA - cheap from SARCO, I bought 3 quarts 10 years ago, if memory serves and havent even made a serious dent... and I like any high temp grease for my M1/M1A's.

I have also used grease on my AR with success as well as pistols.  YMMV.

Remember one thing - your not going into combat, well yet - but a cleaning regimen will still apply then as well as a range gun.  Any type of viscous material can attract dirt grime dust sand etc.  Just always be ready to clean em and you should be good to go.

 

LSA works fine.  As I stated above nothing sticks to Dri Slide.  That's the solution to avoiding sand, dirt, gunk, etc from sticking to internal parts.

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19 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Most silicon lubes boil at about 400 degrees Fahrenheit.  While you might get by using then on a handgun I think a bolt on an AR gets at least that hot during rapid fire.  

I'd agree about the temps being a factor, and certainly wouldn't likely use it on the bolt area at all. It'd be great in the trigger area tho,,,,,,,

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19 hours ago, Screwball said:

 

Do you use it on tools with high temperature? I believe silicone lubricant has a maximum temperature rating of like 400 degrees. Inside a D/I bolt group, you can get above that.

 

I’m actually switching to Cherry Balmz... waiting on the stuff to actually arrive. My guy Rudy at Macon Armory turned me onto it. Was having issues with my D/I .45, which was burning oil from inside the bolt (gas ring area). Was causing some issues with locking back/jamming... which I thought was related to the buffer. The gas on the .45 is too hot for normal lube to last... considering the gas block is just in front of the upper receiver. But I’m likely going to change across the board, including my piston 5.56mm.

 

It is sort of like a grease. The owner of the company did some Q&A on AR15.com a few months back... think it was a comparison thread between it and SlideGlide. Might be a good read, even if you don’t go with it. Gave some gas temperature readings, from within the gas system, and really put temperatures into perspective.

 

Lubes... you see a lot of fads. I do have to say that I both see a lot of user recommendations with Cherry Balmz, and recommendations not coming from paid members of the industry. A five bottle pack cost me about $40, and can pick any combo you want. I got three of their Black Rifle Balm, and then two of Winter Balm (to cover my ARs up in Maine).

No, if you notice the examples I mentioned, these don't get more than room temperature. The hottest tool I am likely to deal with is drill bits and Sawzall blades. They are meant to force metal against other materials.  Not exactly  like what firearms are subjected to in the "contained explosion" sections. 

I was merely thinking of the parts that are subjected to friction of parts against parts other than the high heat areas. Mag release, triggers, pivot points,,,,,,,,,,,places where oil might be messy and grease being overkill.

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19 hours ago, Screwball said:

 

Do you use it on tools with high temperature? I believe silicone lubricant has a maximum temperature rating of like 400 degrees. Inside a D/I bolt group, you can get above that.

 

I’m actually switching to Cherry Balmz... waiting on the stuff to actually arrive. My guy Rudy at Macon Armory turned me onto it. Was having issues with my D/I .45, which was burning oil from inside the bolt (gas ring area). Was causing some issues with locking back/jamming... which I thought was related to the buffer. The gas on the .45 is too hot for normal lube to last... considering the gas block is just in front of the upper receiver. But I’m likely going to change across the board, including my piston 5.56mm.

 

It is sort of like a grease. The owner of the company did some Q&A on AR15.com a few months back... think it was a comparison thread between it and SlideGlide. Might be a good read, even if you don’t go with it. Gave some gas temperature readings, from within the gas system, and really put temperatures into perspective.

 

Lubes... you see a lot of fads. I do have to say that I both see a lot of user recommendations with Cherry Balmz, and recommendations not coming from paid members of the industry. A five bottle pack cost me about $40, and can pick any combo you want. I got three of their Black Rifle Balm, and then two of Winter Balm (to cover my ARs up in Maine).

Never been much of a fad follower type of guy. But,,,,,I will look into the Slide Glide, thanks.

19 hours ago, GRIZ said:

LSA works fine.  As I stated above nothing sticks to Dri Slide.  That's the solution to avoiding sand, dirt, gunk, etc from sticking to internal parts.

Dry slide sounds like it might be worth checking out, thank you for mentioning it.

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I was merely thinking of the parts that are subjected to friction of parts against parts other than the high heat areas. Mag release, triggers, pivot points,,,,,,,,,,,places where oil might be messy and grease being overkill.


To be clear, you didn’t explain anything in regards to what you had intended to use it for. You stated originally you have limited firearms knowledge. The thread discusses lubrication on an AR... most of which is the bolt (and most ARs are D/I). Sorry if I didn’t see a pattern to your examples. I just figured that is what you were familiar with.

That being said, the points where you mention possible use are not as important to function as is the bolt assembly. There are plenty of people running ARs with nothing on the trigger assembly or magazine release. Bolt lubrication can be the difference between a fun range session and manipulating the action every couple shots because something happened... bolt didn’t close fully, so hammer sent it home and didn’t ignite the primer; bolt didn’t lock back (judging the buffer works for the gas pressure); failure to chamber.

I hit those points with oil, and wipe down excess. More to prevent rust. I personally don’t run regular lubricant on any of those points. I used to put a dab of grease on the face of the hammer... but haven’t in some time, and have not noticed any difference.

I’m not a fan of putting extra lubricant on places that doesn’t need it. Trigger surfaces, once you fire them enough, the parts interacting start to smooth out. They start to polish against each other. If that was a concern to me... I’d have the related parts refinished in NP3 or another nickel blended plating.

In regards to silicone lubricant on stuff other than the bolt group... if you want to try it, give it a shot. See what gets (or doesn’t get) attracted to it from actual use. Me personally, I feel that is more work than any benefit you’ll see in return.
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2 hours ago, 345Sire said:

I'd agree about the temps being a factor, and certainly wouldn't likely use it on the bolt area at all. It'd be great in the trigger area tho,,,,,,,

Using more than one lubricant on different components where there is the possibility of the lubricants migrating to one another isn't a good idea IMO.

The vehicle used in Dri Slide is flammable but evaporates quickly like lighter fluid.  What's left is the lubricant, molybdenum disulfide,  a metal.  It's dry.  Nothing there to evaporate or harden up.  You can lube up your AR, put it away, and take it out 2 years later and it's ready to go.  Heat resistance?  Molybdenum Disulfide melts at over 4000 degrees Fahrenheit.  You can melt your receiver and the molybdenum disulfide is still there.

I've used it on M16s and M4s firing full auto.  They get hot quick and stay hot. No problems.  I've used it for 50 years to lube ARS/M16s/M4s.  If it ain't broke I'm not going to try and fix it!

 

 

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On 8/30/2018 at 2:05 PM, JC_68Westy said:

I was given a case of Break Free CLP bottles along with a 1 gallon jug in the late 1980's that I got from a friend that was an armorer.  This is the original Teflon stuff and that is what I use for lubing my guns (except for grease on the reveiver of the  Garand, M1A and Mini14).  I prefer Hoppe's solvent for cleaning.  Never had an issue with this combination. I have tried some of the newer wonder lubes and was not impressed enough to switch.

Hoppe's #9 and Mpro7 till I run out of the spraybottle I have, and a foaming borecleaner once in awhile for rifles  to clean, then Breakfree to do the outsides and handguns, I have what's left of a tube of light white grease I use on Sig and 1911 slide rails. M1, carbines get the red synthetic grease in the can I have had for years on the slide/oprod channels and receiver bridge, hammer tops and a little on the bolt lugs. I ran out of the dry lube awhile back and just haven't bothered to buy more. So the .22's get Hoppes + CLP.  Moly type lube I have in Chainwax for the motorcycle chains. I learned a long time ago that stuff stains anything it gets on and does NOT come out. Ever.

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Here's a link to the thread mentioned in a previous post:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/CherryBalmz-vs-SlideGlide/5-2105715/?page=5

It goes straight to page 5 because that's where the good stuff really starts.  There's lots of reading to do in there.

Along with a lot of the other points already made, it's also good to know that there are parts that should either not be lubricated, or should only receive a very light coat of lubrication.

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you don't need cherry balmz


Standard AR? Probably not... and if you read that thread, the owner of CherryBalmz gives suggestions of what to use... other than his stuff (not even gun lube). Like vjf915 said, it is a very good read. There was even other commercial firearm lubricants rated, with recommendations on what was the best in his option... so you have multiple options. Personally, I’m not buying stuff that people cram down my throat. Give me the info, and I’ll do my own research. That is what drew me to it, after recommendations.

However, I had issues with Slip2000 EWL/Shooters Choice grease lasting on my .45 AR. D/I, with the gas block right in front of the castle nut. Think pistol length, but no visible gas tube under the handguards. Pressure with that is very different than a standard AR... and why I had issues with lube. Created the situation of why I thought it was overgassed.

For the guy who manufactured my upper to recommend it (he does 10mm and 7.62x25mm in D/I, as well), that is more than enough for me. Everyone else giving it praise without money backing it, made it easier of a decision. There is a chance that I get it and is garbage... and I have to go somewhere else. But with Rudy from Macon Armory standing by that recommendation, I’d be shocked if it isn’t as expected.

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On 10/31/2018 at 1:10 PM, USRifle30Cal said:

Remember one thing - your not going into combat, well yet - but a cleaning regimen will still apply then as well as a range gun.  Any type of viscous material can attract dirt grime dust sand etc.  Just always be ready to clean em and you should be good to go.

This, makes the most sense.  Well said

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8 hours ago, Screwball said:

 


Standard AR? Probably not... and if you read that thread, the owner of CherryBalmz gives suggestions of what to use... other than his stuff (not even gun lube). Like vjf915 said, it is a very good read. There was even other commercial firearm lubricants rated, with recommendations on what was the best in his option... so you have multiple options. Personally, I’m not buying stuff that people cram down my throat. Give me the info, and I’ll do my own research. That is what drew me to it, after recommendations.

However, I had issues with Slip2000 EWL/Shooters Choice grease lasting on my .45 AR. D/I, with the gas block right in front of the castle nut. Think pistol length, but no visible gas tube under the handguards. Pressure with that is very different than a standard AR... and why I had issues with lube. Created the situation of why I thought it was overgassed.

For the guy who manufactured my upper to recommend it (he does 10mm and 7.62x25mm in D/I, as well), that is more than enough for me. Everyone else giving it praise without money backing it, made it easier of a decision. There is a chance that I get it and is garbage... and I have to go somewhere else. But with Rudy from Macon Armory standing by that recommendation, I’d be shocked if it isn’t as expected.

reviews and money backing it doesn't matter, the gun community is full of retards who will spend $10/oz of whatever new flavor of lube etc is out there.  Remember, you've got buys buying $60 safeties, enough said on that.

glad your guy recommended it and you feel that is enough but having built, repaired, shot, etc etc enough to see that most lubes are the same and mobil 1 is really all anyone needs. For any lube to have a higher flash point on heat and lower stop point on cold the cost benefit just isn't there.  No one here is shooting their weapon in -50 degrees too often and doubt I'll see anyone at +600f.  10w will stay on a standard bolt well past 1k rounds.  I understand your point on it being a .45 AR but the .45 has far less pressure than what the standard AR has and we don't see any issues with the 9mm AR like what you were describing.  Think the set up is off or the locking is off.  LOTS of things can contribute to symptoms of over gassing

 

that said, a buddy of mine used cherry balmz, he is one of those guys that has to buy everything new because he's well uhhh, naive.  A good lube, a well set up firearm, a proper cleaning and inspection schedule is all anyone needs really

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reviews and money backing it doesn't matter, the gun community is full of retards who will spend $10/oz of whatever new flavor of lube etc is out there.  Remember, you've got buys buying $60 safeties, enough said on that.
glad your guy recommended it and you feel that is enough but having built, repaired, shot, etc etc enough to see that most lubes are the same and mobil 1 is really all anyone needs. For any lube to have a higher flash point on heat and lower stop point on cold the cost benefit just isn't there.  No one here is shooting their weapon in -50 degrees too often and doubt I'll see anyone at +600f.  10w will stay on a standard bolt well past 1k rounds.  I understand your point on it being a .45 AR but the .45 has far less pressure than what the standard AR has and we don't see any issues with the 9mm AR like what you were describing.  Think the set up is off or the locking is off.  LOTS of things can contribute to symptoms of over gassing
 
that said, a buddy of mine used cherry balmz, he is one of those guys that has to buy everything new because he's well uhhh, naive.  A good lube, a well set up firearm, a proper cleaning and inspection schedule is all anyone needs really


All I said was that there isn’t the paid reviews of CherryBalmz like there were how many other lubricants prior (search YouTube, nobody is talking about it). Those with paid hype were listed in that thread, as well. I personally like when smaller companies put out a good product. I use Robar for refinishing... but I also use CCR for those reasons. If it is between the two, I go CCR (only exception is if they can’t do something; alloy frames, long guns).

Also don’t know where buying a $60 safety comes into this. Stock safeties, included in most lower parts kits, work fine. I switched all of my lowers to an ambidextrous safety (standard one with the screw), because of personal preference. I also spent $60ish on a safety, as I wanted a FDE one for my build. If you have a problem with that... sorry you feel that way (we live in a capitalist society). Me, personally, I really don’t care what parts other people build their ARs with... unless they have a failure with the part. Then, I’m interested... especially if I run the same part.

I have a Norton ambidextrous magazine release and Magpul release button on most of my ARs (minus the .45, as it uses a bottom loaded magazine adapter with USC magazines; when I move, and can get the Macon 20 rounders, I’ll put those two on it... as that is a top loaded adapter and will use the traditional controls). Really don’t care what anyone else feels about that. When others start giving me money for shooting/guns, then I’ll worry what they think about my builds.

Glad you use Mobile One. [emoji106] Glad you feel confident in it. [emoji106] But shy of that... are we supposed to just go off your opinion? Isn’t that the same as other people recommending X lubricant? It was brought up in that thread why Mobile One guys have good results... and I think he gave alternatives (don’t remember if something was a better choice, but I really didn’t read that far in it other than he touched on it).

For temperature, I’m moving to Maine... which will be a little colder than NJ. -50 degrees? I’m not going out in it unless I have to. But I also don’t see most people shooting in 600 degree weather... as that is borderline house on fire temperatures. But, if you actually took a second and read that linked thread... you’d see where those numbers are coming from. But I’ll copy them to make it easier for you... these are gas temperatures at those points.

“As to DI AR temps, here's the breakdown:

Gas Key: 1000F in rifle-length systems, 1500F in SBRs. Carbine length is about 1200F
Cam Pin/Cam Channel: 450F-750F
Bolt Tail: 450F-750F”

I don’t think people alluded to shooting on the surface of the sun (exaggeration, before someone decides to correct me on it), but internally, 600 degrees isn’t hard to get to.

For your point on my .45 AR... I think you need to go back and reread my posts. If you are comparing to 9mm, you do realize my .45 isn’t blowback, right? It is a D/I gun, with the gas post about half the distance from where a pistol length gas port is. Issues I’ve had go away when I lather the s*** out of the bolt with EWL. Shoot a little bit, issues start coming back. The first time I noticed the issues, gun was probably dry, as it sat for sometime (started from Jump Street). Like I said, I asked Macon Armory about it, as I thought the upper just needed a heavier buffer (which I tried, and worked until lube burnt off again). If it was another issue (Macon’s side), why would I get it working for periods of time? EWL and Shooters Choice grease has worked fine for my other ARs (piston and D/I)... but if it isn’t working for this one, I’ll find something that does and stick with it across the board. Not going to use X in some, and Y in others.

For the part about maintenance, I don’t disagree with you. Me? I clean my guns after each time they are shot. Went further when I was having issues with that rifle... even down to putting the bolt in the ultrasonic (I do it periodically on certain bolts, or if I’m cleaning one initially that has Cosmoline in it). Normally, just scrape what needs to be scraped, pull dirt off with solvent, then relube. Magazines get cleaned, and with the case of the USC ones that run the .45 AR, pulled out one that I bought used, which was giving me issues. Turned out that the spring was in backwards, and bent on one end... so replaced the spring and now have a good magazine.

Your friend might be naive, as I am taking your word for it... but because I’m trying something that people I trust have recommended, at least I’m looking at something new (if it doesn’t work, I will try something else... but I feel confident moving forward with Rudy’s recommendation). How many times in history has that type sentiment been out there? Moving to the Garand. Moving to semi-auto pistols. Moving to the M16. People don’t like change. But if it works for my needs (the .45 AR isn’t a common setup people have), I’m good. Trust me, you using Mobile One doesn’t bother me one bit. If it works, it works. But if CherryBalmz work for me, don’t see the issue... thought the end result was to have a functioning firearm?

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think you are missing the point but ok
simply put, if you need a different lube to make your setup run correctly the set up is wrong.


Nope, I got your point... you aren’t changing. Might have missed my point... doesn’t bother me at all. Shoot your guns just the same. [emoji106]

How many D/I .45 ARs have you built? Shot? Seen?

Telling me it is a lower pressure round and comparing it to blowback 9mms, you obviously don’t have background in them. Not faulting you for it or saying you don’t know anything because of a lack of knowledge about that... but you kind of don’t have a leg to stand on to say it is setup wrong. While the system is similar, it isn’t the same as a mid-length 16” or a rifle length 20”. Macon Armory is one of like two places that offers these setups. Rudy builds them himself. So, if it comes down to talking about a D/I .45 AR... sorry, but I’ll take his view before yours. His view also explains what occurred to me A LOT better than yours, as if it was setup wrong, it wouldn’t work sometimes and not others (nor alleviate when lube was added).

And again, this doesn’t change the fact that the owner of that company (CherryBalmz) stated if you aren’t going to use his lubricant, he gave suggestions of both firearms lubricant and non-firearms lubricant that would be best. Nobody here is saying you are wrong, but if you don’t want to read a thread that has a crap ton of info... it doesn’t hurt me. That thread has info on lubricating ARs... and good info for people to make their own mind up. How is it ok for you to just say Mobil One, yet everyone else is automatically wrong/naive? That thread stated Mobil One, but gave info on why it is good.

Sorry if you don’t like a different opinion, or a setup with different needs. I’ll warn you... I’ll likely be posting some pictures in here from the range when I get CherryBalmz in (probably two weeks or so, since I’m going on vacation tomorrow), and test it out of my .45 AR. Good, bad, or indifferent. Not doing it to piss you off, but if that is going to be the case... sorry?
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lol...yeah you got it alright.

once again, if you need a new lube to get your weapon to function, something else is wrong.  there is no difference between a 9mm AR and a 45 AR with respects to operation.  You look retarded here trying to debate and support a conclusion based on lube applicability.  

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