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This M1 carbine legal?

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42 minutes ago, father-of-three said:

Just did some reading on the house to house search for the 66 stolen m1 carbines.  It happened before....it can happen again.

That was confined to a few blocks. I don't see that happening throughout a whole city let alone the entire state.

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I don't think the theft of the carbines during the riots were a big factor in putting the M1 carbine on the banned list.

M1 carbines were a favorite stickup gun in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.  Easy to get as they were a long gun, plentiful, easy to hide, and maybe more importantly easy to see when the holdup was announced.  It looked threatening.  More so with a 30 rd magazine.  If you were inclined to shoot it out with the police it has distinct advantages over a handgun.

As far as house to house searches you have to remember that was during a riot.  

 

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3 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

That was confined to a few blocks. I don't see that happening throughout a whole city let alone the entire state.

I agree in the context that a similar occurrance would cause the state to have to address their urban crime problem.  That's why I phrased it with can and not will.

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I have several friends that still have theirs, complete with 30 round mags tapped together.

A deceased friend, from Newark, was able to acquire a M2 from the riots way back when.  He told me it was SELECT-FIRE, not full-auto ONLY.  I never laid eyes on it.  My friends all had them in the 80's (M-1 Carbines).  Out to 200 yards it could do the job.  Put that cartridge in a sixgun & it will light-up an indoor range that's for sure!  :) 

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

I have several friends that still have theirs, complete with 30 round mags tapped together.

A deceased friend, from Newark, was able to acquire a M2 from the riots way back when.  He told me it was SELECT-FIRE, not full-auto ONLY.  I never laid eyes on it.  My friends all had them in the 80's (M-1 Carbines).  Out to 200 yards it could do the job.  Put that cartridge in a sixgun & it will light-up an indoor range that's for sure!  :) 

There were less than 400 M1 Carbines, M1As, and AR15s registered at the time of the AWB.  IIRC the law states you can use "standard" magazines if the rifle is used for competition.  I know a few people that have registered AWs in NJ.

M2s were all selective fire, full auto or semi, not full auto only.  Selector lever is on the left front of the receiver.  There had to be a slot in the stock so the lever could reach the trigger group.

Accuracy was not a strong point of the M1 Carbine but they were not designed as sniper rifles.  Most of them shot 3-4" @ 100 yds.  5-6" were acceptable IIRC. However at 300 yds (the maximum range on the later windage adjustable sight)  that 3-4" accuracy works out to 9-12".  At 300 yds the bullet still has about 400 ft/lbs of energy so whatever it impacts will feel it.  Also, the bullet has slowed down a bit so it's more likely to tumble causing more damage.

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I had a transferable M2 Kit installed in an Inland M1 Carbine from Miltech Arms. It was a beauty and fun to shoot, but uncontrollable. I am sorry I sold it.

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk

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I am genuinely curious as to how the M1 pattern but stamped "WW2 Small  Rifle" or whatever, and as semi auto, with no "evil features" and a 10 round magazine would be illegal because banned by name. But an AR-15 with "XM-15" and no evil features and a ten round magazine, is not illegal, due to not being substantially identical. 

I understand logic is not a strong point of NJ laws but could this really, actually hold up in court? Wouldn't they have to come seize tens of thousands of ARs if that was the case? 

Is the real basis for illegality that the M1 can very easily be made into a select fire? And even if so, it doesn't take too much to make an AR/AK pattern full auto. Not endorsing or encouraging any dumbass to go make machine guns anywhere in the US without proper ATF approval of course. 

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2 hours ago, mossburger said:

I am genuinely curious as to how the M1 pattern but stamped "WW2 Small  Rifle" or whatever, and as semi auto, with no "evil features" and a 10 round magazine would be illegal because banned by name. But an AR-15 with "XM-15" and no evil features and a ten round magazine, is not illegal, due to not being substantially identical. 

I understand logic is not a strong point of NJ laws but could this really, actually hold up in court? Wouldn't they have to come seize tens of thousands of ARs if that was the case? 

Is the real basis for illegality that the M1 can very easily be made into a select fire? And even if so, it doesn't take too much to make an AR/AK pattern full auto. Not endorsing or encouraging any dumbass to go make machine guns anywhere in the US without proper ATF approval of course. 

You are looking for reason where there is none.  There is a variety of guns that can be converted to full auto with minimal work.  Prior to 1981 there were "drop in auto sears" available with which you could convert any AR to full auto in minutes.

Parts to convert a carbine to a M2 were readily available.  You could find them in firearms journals like the "Shotgun News" (how people bought and sold guns before the Internet).  One place that sold all M2 parts except the sear and another on the next page someone selling all the parts except the selector. I don't think this had anything to do with "M1 Carbine type" making the list.  That would infer there was some knowledge of firearms amongst the people who wrote the law.

My "favorite" evil feature is the bayonet stud.  Was this added to the evil feature list because of the rash of drive by bayonetings in Newark and Camden.  However, a bayonet on a bolt action Mauser, Enfield, or Mosin is much safer?

An analogy I often use is the NJ AWB is like a group of firearms enthusiasts writing a law on brain surgery.  Neither makes much sense.

 

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Yeah GRIZ, I absolutely agree.

I guess my point was, at this point, if someone were to just say "WW2 Small Rifle" and say "come get it" could the state actually even manage to enforce the ban on it, could that actually even hold up in court. There are so many AR/AK/HK/etc. Clones of every variety not "substantially identical" yet with the M1 the law is supposedly said to be enforced so literally in a way that it certainly is not with any other rifle platform.

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1 hour ago, mossburger said:

Yeah GRIZ, I absolutely agree.

I guess my point was, at this point, if someone were to just say "WW2 Small Rifle" and say "come get it" could the state actually even manage to enforce the ban on it, could that actually even hold up in court. There are so many AR/AK/HK/etc. Clones of every variety not "substantially identical" yet with the M1 the law is supposedly said to be enforced so literally in a way that it certainly is not with any other rifle platform.

This shows part of the strategy of gungrabbers.  If they were to say WW2 small rifle that would be too broad a definition.  That would probably include rifles such as the Carcano carbine and Enfield Jungle carbine both of which are about the same size and barrel length as the M1 carbine.

The M1 carbine was easy to pick on.  It was unique as few non-military rifles chambered for the cartridge.  The only one I know of was the Marlin Levermatic.  There were a lot of them around.  IIRC 6,000,000 were made.  It is not a popular hunting rifle as the cartridge is underpowered for that use. The M1 carbine was designed as a personal defense weapon and it works in that role well.   Most of the shortcomings in this role are overcome by using a soft point or hollow point bullet.  It also has a unique appearance.

The AWB is a good example of a "feel good" law.  Any of the calibers they are made in are no more effective in a semi-auto than a bolt action.  All the evil features are just cosmetics.  The fact long guns are not the weapon of choice in crime has nothing to do with it.  The FBI UCR show exactly 1 homicide committed with a rifle in NJ  in 2016.  That's out of 372 homicides.  Using stats from that year you were 29 times more likely to be murdered with a cutting instrument and 23 time more likely to be killed by physical force.  I'll give you even odds that the one rifle homicide was not committed with an assault weapon, neutered or otherwise.

The gungrabbers are already trying to take them all.  The proposal to make "one evil feature" an assault weapon is proof of this.

 

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Yes, I know. I know the AWB is a feel good law at best, and an underhanded attempt at a gun ban at worst.

That's not what I am saying though, lol.

My question is this.

Some company manufactures an M1 Carbine and etches it "WW2 Small rifle" as the model (that's just my generic example name). Said example firearm has a ten round magazine, only one evil features besides detachable magazine, etc. Person who lives in NJ buys it, and says "if they want it come get it"

This is what everyone already does with their AR-15s that pass the test and don't say "Colt AR-15" on the side.

So therefore, my question is, why do we all have XM15s and AR556 and WASR and PAPs and aren't scared, yet the M1-but-not-called-M1 is a no go?

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5 minutes ago, mossburger said:

Yes, I know. I know the AWB is a feel good law at best, and an underhanded attempt at a gun ban at worst.

That's not what I am saying though, lol.

My question is this.

Some company manufactures an M1 Carbine and etches it "WW2 Small rifle" as the model (that's just my generic example name). Said example firearm has a ten round magazine, only one evil features besides detachable magazine, etc. Person who lives in NJ buys it, and says "if they want it come get it"

This is what everyone already does with their AR-15s that pass the test and don't say "Colt AR-15" on the side.

So therefore, my question is, why do we all have XM15s and AR556 and WASR and PAPs and aren't scared, yet the M1-but-not-called-M1 is a no go?

The AR-15 is listed as "Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 Series".

The US Carbine is listed as "M1 Carbine Type".

BIG Difference. LOL.

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Its kind of ugly anyways. Remember a few years back when AO/Kahr came out with these and they were marked AOM 30 or something? Someone from NJSPFIU said GTG! THEN..............some dealers in NJ started taking preorders, at full MSRP. I believe that one such establishment that shall remain nameless was even more (I wonder if the people that gave money ever got it back...hmmm)

Anyway,  everybody and their mama started calling NJSP, who tossed it over to the AG, who said no way mang, Is a baby killing evil death machine. Good times

 

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On 8/30/2018 at 10:05 AM, matty said:

You must not remember the last flap about that not too long ago. I would  say that the default position of this NJAG will be NO, and while you are asking, all AK and AR pattern rifles are now banned because they are similar to the banned by name rifles, a la Mass AG not too long ago either.

I will post some gloating pix when I get the chance though :)

 

amazing mass residents don't appeal this as Heller killed that school of thought

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Its kind of ugly anyways. Remember a few years back when AO/Kahr came out with these and they were marked AOM 30 or something? Someone from NJSPFIU said GTG! THEN..............some dealers in NJ started taking preorders, at full MSRP. I believe that one such establishment that shall remain nameless was even more (I wonder if the people that gave money ever got it back...hmmm)
Anyway,  everybody and their mama started calling NJSP, who tossed it over to the AG, who said no way mang, Is a baby killing evil death machine. Good times
 
The Auto Ordnance ML Carbine was legal for a few days. Not all came back to me. LOL

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk

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