Ziggy 3 Posted August 31, 2018 Hello. I'm new to the forum. I'm scheduled to have guns and magazines returned to me. My attorney said police are keeping the magazines because of the new law. A friend suggested they have no legal right to keep the magazines because the law is not yet in effect and it is up to me to alter them. Is this correct? It's also been suggested they'll try to intimidate me because I'm a smaller woman going alone. I'm pissed and want everything returned to me that inappropriately took three months ago. Appreciate any help and specifics about the laws. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,872 Posted August 31, 2018 Unfortunately, the 10 round magazine law is in effect, and that means if you have magazines of higher than 10 round capacity, then they can legally keep them. We're still in the "grace period" where lawful NJ Gun owners are supposed to get rid of their "high capacity" magazines... The ANJRPC has a lawsuit against the new law, but until we get a verdict about it, we are still affected by the law. I personally have had to purchase 10-round magazines for my guns to use them (legally) at public ranges. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted August 31, 2018 Sorry to hear about your seizure. I'd recommend taking any advice you get from the forum with a grain of salt and consulting ith your attorney before taking any action. That said, I tend to agree with those who have said they magazines are yours to alter or dispose of and NOT the property of the police department. Unless they reimburse you for the full retail cost, I'd say you should demand them back. At a minumum you could sell them or trade them for different magazines. Good luck 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdamM 42 Posted August 31, 2018 Perhaps a FFL CAN pick them up on the premise that they will pin them to 10 rounds.Hoping that the injunction will happen early September, according to the last message from ANJRPC. If so you can probably get them at that point (unless they supposedly disposed of them -- read, kept them for themselves). 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ziggy 3 Posted August 31, 2018 Thanks for the replies so far. Law S102 states "The bill’s provisions are effective immediately, but allow for a 180-day grace period to transfer, render inoperable, or voluntarily surrender a semi-automatic rifle or magazine that will be unlawful under the bill." ---- so under the grace period stated- which lasts until 12/06/2018- shouldn't it be my LEGAL RIGHT UNDER THE LAW to ensure the magazine complies or surrender?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,793 Posted August 31, 2018 Attorney Evan Nappen’s opinion is that the “grace period” is for modification/transferring/surrenderig only, and that otherwise the magazines are illegal outside your home right now. http://www.evannappen.com/book-update---large-capacity-magazines.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,793 Posted August 31, 2018 (Also curious - what’s the story behind the original seizure, if you can share?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revenger 472 Posted August 31, 2018 even if you dont get them back you should at least get to smash them so they dont become the "property" of some cop there. We all know how that works in the early 80's I had a local cop take my ammo and beer , I was old enough but cop was a douc&$. I went to PD next day and told them to give them back, the empty beer bottles were in the garbage can behind the desk and the cop had to go to his car to get me MY ammo. this was in a southern bergen county town. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mossy500 12 Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Krdshrk said: Unfortunately, the 10 round magazine law is in effect, and that means if you have magazines of higher than 10 round capacity, then they can legally keep them. We're still in the "grace period" where lawful NJ Gun owners are supposed to get rid of their "high capacity" magazines... The ANJRPC has a lawsuit against the new law, but until we get a verdict about it, we are still affected by the law. I personally have had to purchase 10-round magazines for my guns to use them (legally) at public ranges. Can I ship out my 15-round magazine to another person in another state to sort of "hold" it for me? Is this something I can ship via USPS? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mossy500 said: Can I ship out my 15-round magazine to another person in another state to sort of "hold" it for me? Is this something I can ship via USPS? Yes, can't see any problem unless they live in a state with less than 15. Magazines are parts. No restriction with USPS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mossy500 12 Posted August 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, GRIZ said: Yes, can't see any problem unless they live in a state with less than 15. Magazines are parts. No restriction with USPS. Ok, thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted August 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mossy500 said: Ok, thank you! You can mail any gun part except a frame or receiver. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mossy500 12 Posted August 31, 2018 21 minutes ago, GRIZ said: You can mail any gun part except a frame or receiver. I'm worried about my local post office - the last time I inquired to send my shotgun down to my cousin in FL they weren't sure what to do, they checked their documents and told me it's OK for me to send it via USPS as long as its unloaded. I researched it later finding out that only FFLs are allowed to ship firearms to another state. So that's why I'm hesitant to send these 15-round magazines via post office. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted August 31, 2018 I'm worried about my local post office - the last time I inquired to send my shotgun down to my cousin in FL they weren't sure what to do, they checked their documents and told me it's OK for me to send it via USPS as long as its unloaded. I researched it later finding out that only FFLs are allowed to ship firearms to another state. So that's why I'm hesitant to send these 15-round magazines via post office.Anyone can use USPS for long guns. You must be a dealer to use USPS for handguns.Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted August 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, Mossy500 said: I'm worried about my local post office - the last time I inquired to send my shotgun down to my cousin in FL they weren't sure what to do, they checked their documents and told me it's OK for me to send it via USPS as long as its unloaded. I researched it later finding out that only FFLs are allowed to ship firearms to another state. So that's why I'm hesitant to send these 15-round magazines via post office. It works like this: 1. Only FFLs can ship handguns USPS. 2. You can ship any of your guns to YOURSELF in the US. You can't ship handguns USPS. 3. You can ship a gun to a FFL, manufacturer, or licensed gunsmith in any state. The problem with #2 is although the law allows you to ship handguns to yourself UPS and FEDEX won't let you as far as i know. Some say just declare it as machine parts. Problem with that is there is a law requiring you to declare a firearm to a common carrier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted August 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, Mossy500 said: So that's why I'm hesitant to send these 15-round magazines via post office. Magazines are not firearms. You can mail or ship them anywhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mossy500 12 Posted August 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, GRIZ said: It works like this: 1. Only FFLs can ship handguns USPS. 2. You can ship any of your guns to YOURSELF in the US. You can't ship handguns USPS. 3. You can ship a gun to a FFL, manufacturer, or licensed gunsmith in any state. The problem with #2 is although the law allows you to ship handguns to yourself UPS and FEDEX won't let you as far as i know. Some say just declare it as machine parts. Problem with that is there is a law requiring you to declare a firearm to a common carrier. Thanks! So they were right about it all along? And thanks to everybody who chimed in, a little bit more confident to ship these mags out(for now), unfortunate as the situation may be. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted August 31, 2018 36 minutes ago, Mossy500 said: Thanks! So they were right about it all along? And thanks to everybody who chimed in, a little bit more confident to ship these mags out(for now), unfortunate as the situation may be. Why are you getting rid of your mags now? There may well be an injunction in the coming days and SCOTUS is looking great for us! Keep what you can as long as you can! I spoke with a local gun dealer who told me a crazy number of people in the PRNJ are selling off their guns because they are afraid of what Trenton will ban next. I for one am not willing to give up my magazines, my guns or my Constitutional rights that easily! 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mossy500 12 Posted September 1, 2018 59 minutes ago, JohnnyB said: Why are you getting rid of your mags now? There may well be an injunction in the coming days and SCOTUS is looking great for us! Keep what you can as long as you can! I spoke with a local gun dealer who told me a crazy number of people in the PRNJ are selling off their guns because they are afraid of what Trenton will ban next. I for one am not willing to give up my magazines, my guns or my Constitutional rights that easily! Ok, but I really would like to go out and shoot and I don't have the 10-rd mags yet. I'm with you on our right to bear arms. Now that we're on the topic of 10-rd magazines, will this something that will fit my Glock-19 gen5? : https://www.magpul.com/products/pmag-10-gl9-glock19 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted September 1, 2018 24 minutes ago, Mossy500 said: Ok, but I really would like to go out and shoot and I don't have the 10-rd mags yet. I'm with you on our right to bear arms. Now that we're on the topic of 10-rd magazines, will this something that will fit my Glock-19 gen5? : https://www.magpul.com/products/pmag-10-gl9-glock19 One show biz lawyers interpretation does not the law make. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted September 1, 2018 5 hours ago, DirtyDigz said: (Also curious - what’s the story behind the original seizure, if you can share?) I'm wondering the same thing. Why were the guns and mags taken away in the first place? This might help us clarify if they will be returned. We need more information on the particular case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Regular Guy 264 Posted September 1, 2018 Take the advice of your attorney and nobody else. No offense to anyone on the forum, but we aren't attorneys. If your attorney said it's ok, please share the circumstances of how your guns came to be taken by law enforcement. With all the recent law changes, we are curious about the circumstances whenever someones guns are taken and even more curious about when they are returned. This state doesn't seem to be very good at admitting when they are wrong and don't seem to be in a hurry to hand anyone a gun, even if they were wrong to take it in the first place. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted September 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, Sniper22 said: I'm wondering the same thing. Why were the guns and mags taken away in the first place? This might help us clarify if they will be returned. We need more information on the particular case. Whatever the reason the guns and accessories were seized, the gear, most of it anyway, is being returned. The OP clearly stated that. So, whatever the event was that precipitated the seizure, it's a moot point. You're just being nosy. This person didn't come here to give us all their life story, they just want some specific information regarding the impending mag ban and why a seizure turned into a confiscation. sheesh. One thing has nothing to do with the other. But, I do admit, I am also curious. We are ALL curious, but it's not cool to just outright pry. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted September 1, 2018 38 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: So, whatever the event was that precipitated the seizure, it's a moot point. You're just being nosy. This person didn't come here to give us all their life story, they just want some specific information regarding the impending mag ban and why a seizure turned into a confiscation. sheesh. Try again.. There's usually two sides to every story, and the truth usually falls somewhere in the middle. 47 minutes ago, Regular Guy said: With all the recent law changes, we are curious about the circumstances whenever someones guns are taken and even more curious about when they are returned. This state doesn't seem to be very good at admitting when they are wrong and don't seem to be in a hurry to hand anyone a gun, even if they were wrong to take it in the first place. Exactly.. there is a "grace period" for possession of 10+ mags, it's clearly written in the new law. The LE holding mags is suspect, as it's very easy for her attorney to point that out. Coming here on a anonymous Internet forum asking for legal advice is very suspect, and I believe there's more to the story that we aren't being told. She has an attorney but is asking strangers for legal advice? That leaves her open game for any follow-up questions. Clarifying WHY they were taken in the first place is the starting point. I could make one assumption that the guns were purchased right AFTER the law was signed and this is why they took possession of NEW 10+ mags. Purchasing 10+ mags after the law was signed would be illegal. So without more specific details, you're all playing Monday morning quarterback. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted September 1, 2018 54 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: But, I do admit, I am also curious. We are ALL curious, but it's not cool to just outright pry. A brand new poster is asking legal questions on an Internet forum but we shouldn't be allowed to ask clarifying questions in return? Really? Do you know who this person is? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAL. .30 M1 2,101 Posted September 1, 2018 11 hours ago, Mossy500 said: I'm worried about my local post office - the last time I inquired to send my shotgun down to my cousin in FL they weren't sure what to do, they checked their documents and told me it's OK for me to send it via USPS as long as its unloaded. I researched it later finding out that only FFLs are allowed to ship firearms to another state. So that's why I'm hesitant to send these 15-round magazines via post office. You dont have to tell them what's in the box.... sheesh. And if you so inclined to tell them, of whcihx it none of their business.... machine parts. If they ask if it flammable whatever...just say no Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAL. .30 M1 2,101 Posted September 1, 2018 10 hours ago, JohnnyB said: Why are you getting rid of your mags now? There may well be an injunction in the coming days and SCOTUS is looking great for us! Keep what you can as long as you can! I spoke with a local gun dealer who told me a crazy number of people in the PRNJ are selling off their guns because they are afraid of what Trenton will ban next. I for one am not willing to give up my magazines, my guns or my Constitutional rights that easily! And this is true.... nics checks are way way down. I think the other day I hear there were only like 100 by end of day.... I see folks selling all sorts of stuff at top dollar too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted September 1, 2018 Cops want to keep the mags? Let them. Find their worth per mag, determine what it would cost you to replace them, send municipality an invoice certified mail. They either pay or return them.If there was no product or funds receive after a period of time, file a lien against them. Then wait till they need a loan for the town. [emoji849][emoji6] No ticky, no washy.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SJG 253 Posted September 1, 2018 Nappen is wrong, in my opinion, in part, and has been wrong in the past. The new gun laws have created new ambiguities which will have to be resolved by the courts if not enjoined. While it is true, that until the end of the grace period, you can possess a mag you own that is in excess of 10 rounds, it is not clear if you can transport that mag in a vehicle. . In my opinion a construction of the law that you cannot during the grace period, is plain wrong, because you may need to transport to dispose of it if you do not or cannot modify it. The only basis on which the police during the grace period could justify not returning them to you is that the return to you somehow qualifies as a transfer and that even during the grace period a transfer not otherwise authorized by law is prohibited. Keep in mind that a magazine, detached from a firearm, is not a firearm although it may be considered contraband if in excess of 10 rounds, after the expiration of the grace period or if it is in excess of 15 rounds before the grace period expires. An interesting question is, if the court issues an injunction on the 10 round limit, will the 15 round limit be effective or no limit. The issue exists depending on how you look at the new law is it a repeal and replace of the 15 limit or a pure amendment to the 15 limit. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ziggy 3 Posted September 1, 2018 Thank you to everyone who replied. It seems however that a few of you are becoming angry for not knowing every last detail about the original seizure- which was not the point of my seeking opinions. I was asking only abut the return of the magazines so that I could alter them myself. Comments from members (i.e. Sniper 22) questioning my motives are inappropriate and distracting. FYI - While I didn't agree with the original seizure over a family dispute I am not fighting the actions (inappropriate as they may have been) taken by law enforcement. There's no grand conspiracy or elaborate back story. We're a family of professionals - no criminals or drug dealing or violent histories - just a family dispute over estate issues. I'm sure more than one of you have had family problems! . I'm getting the weapons returned and don't need to take up a pissing match with the local idiot cops and be in court forever. LIFE IS TOO SHORT!! Again- thank you for the opinions and possible explanations behind the ambiguity of the subject. To those of you who question my motives- get over yourselves! Not everything is a conspiracy against you!!!! 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites