Range 129

[Maksim 1,504]

36 minutes ago, Greenday said:

They made sure I had them on. No one went through my bag. No one touched my bag or my rifle or anything I brought with me. They just ask to see it's unloaded.

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So you physically had to open up your bag and show them the guns inside? 

[Greenday 323]

29 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

So I would have to take a semi-auto out and rack the slide showing them it's empty?

Seems counter productive considering you will be walking into a port so you can load it...

Yea, but when you load the gun, you should be in the port with your rifle pointing downrange so any negligent discharge goes downrange and no one gets hurt. We all know there's casual dumbasses who don't have trigger discipline not to pop a round off just getting their gun out of their bag. They aren't the majority but it can result in someone getting killed which is why I'm fine with the very minor inconvenience. Especially for a range that markets itself towards people new to handling guns.

3 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said:

How do you know?

Have you met @Greenday?

No, he has not. I stated days in advance I'd be at the range today. People could have asked to meet and shoot with me and I would have obliged.

1 minute ago, Maksim said:

So you physically had to open up your bag and show them the guns inside? 

Yes. It was an extremely minor inconvenience that took seconds to complete not worth causing a fuss over.

[Sniper 6,372]

1 hour ago, Greenday said:

They made sure I had them on. No one went through my bag. No one touched my bag or my rifle or anything I brought with me. They just ask to see it's unloaded.

What exactly do you do or how do you act when you arrive at the range that makes them so wary and suspicious of you?

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

29 minutes ago, Greenday said:

Yea, but when you load the gun, you should be in the port with your rifle pointing downrange so any negligent discharge goes downrange and no one gets hurt. We all know there's casual dumbasses who don't have trigger discipline not to pop a round off just getting their gun out of their bag. They aren't the majority but it can result in someone getting killed which is why I'm fine with the very minor inconvenience. Especially for a range that markets itself towards people new to handling guns.

No, he has not. I stated days in advance I'd be at the range today. People could have asked to meet and shoot with me and I would have obliged.

Yes. It was an extremely minor inconvenience that took seconds to complete not worth causing a fuss over.

How is having someone handle a potentially loaded firearm in the store solve any issues related to safety? Specifically the ones who you seem so worried about?

This entire concept is rediculous.

[Greenday 323]

9 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

What exactly do you do or how do you act when you arrive at the range that makes them so wary and suspicious of you?

Wary? I'm holding a gun that fires projectiles that if it hits a human being, could result in someone's death. Suspicion has nothing to do with it.

9 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

How is having someone handle a potentially loaded firearm in the store solve any issues related to safety? Specifically the ones who you seem so worried about?

This entire concept is rediculous.

I mean, the way I carry my rifles, I don't have to handle them in any way to prove they aren't loaded while transporting. I keep the bolt out of my bolt action rifle to render it unusable during transport and for my 15-22, I have a lock going through the chamber so no one can use it without my permission. I literally just have to unzip my case and you can see looking at it that nothing is loaded.

[vladtepes 1,060]

16 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

How is having someone handle a potentially loaded firearm in the store solve any issues related to safety? Specifically the ones who you seem so worried about?

This entire concept is rediculous.

generally speaking.. especially with new.. or unknown shooters.. I would never "check the gun" until they went up to shoot.. the last thing I would want is someone NOT in the port taking a gun out and handling it.. if it is loaded.. its more likely to be a problem there.. 

you said there were no "excessive rules".. again.. by my experience.. any of this seams excessive.. the two ranges that I have been a member at.. 

I check in.. 
put on hearing and eye protection.. 
walk up to bench.. uncase gun.. and shoot.. 

there is NO inspection.. NO scrutiny... 
they are a private business.. free to do what they like.. I am just stating it is unusual to my experience.. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

3 minutes ago, Greenday said:

Wary? I'm holding a gun that fires projectiles that if it hits a human being, could result in someone's death. Suspicion has nothing to do with it.

I mean, the way I carry my rifles, I don't have to handle them in any way to prove they aren't loaded while transporting. I keep the bolt out of my bolt action rifle to render it unusable during transport and for my 15-22, I have a lock going through the chamber so no one can use it without my permission. I literally just have to unzip my case and you can see looking at it that nothing is loaded.

the point is completely escaping you.. 

you live in a state where as a gun owner you are constantly under the microscope of scrutiny.. people here view what you are describing as invasive.. and people find it obnoxious that a gun business.. that should support gun rights.. is treating you again as if you should not be trusted.. 

you do not have an issue with it.. we get it.. 

what if the gun IS loaded... then what? what ridiculously unsafe process unfolds next? do they reach in for your gun? or do they make an unknown shooter pull out this random potentially loaded gun? in an area OTHER THAN the designated shooting area.. 

it just doesn't make sense.. 

[Maksim 1,504]

2 minutes ago, vladtepes said:

the point is completely escaping you.. 

you live in a state where as a gun owner you are constantly under the microscope of scrutiny.. people here view what you are describing as invasive.. and people find it obnoxious that a gun business.. that should support gun rights.. is treating you again as if you should not be trusted.. 

you do not have an issue with it.. we get it.. 

what if the gun IS loaded... then what? what ridiculously unsafe process unfolds next? do they reach in for your gun? or do they make an unknown shooter pull out this random potentially loaded gun? in an area OTHER THAN the designated shooting area.. 

it just doesn't make sense.. 

Spot on... 

What if you go to the range and forget that your gun IS loaded... i.e. you are taking a gun that you keep loaded for self defense and taking it to the range.  Throw it in your range bag.

You get to the range, open your bag, and the guy takes out a loaded gun... in the store?  With no safe place to point it.

Or... you uncase a gun when you are in your port and the gun is safely pointed down range.

What is safer?

This "inspection rule" while is a feel good measure, merely creates another chain to break in case of an accident.

There can be more that goes wrong opening your guns outside of the shooting port than what this rule would potentially prevent.

WTF would it prevent anyway?

Would you rather discover a loaded gun IN the range or around other people with no safe place for it to discharge if it does.?

[vladtepes 1,060]

1 minute ago, Maksim said:

Spot on... 

What if you go to the range and forget that your gun IS loaded... i.e. you are taking a gun that you keep loaded for self defense and taking it to the range.  Throw it in your range bag.

You get to the range, open your bag, and the guy takes out a loaded gun... in the store?  With no safe place to point it.

Or... you uncase a gun when you are in your port and the gun is safely pointed down range.

What is safer?

This "inspection rule" while is a feel good measure, merely creates another chain to break in case of an accident.

There can be more that goes wrong opening your guns outside of the shooting port than what this rule would potentially prevent.

WTF would it prevent anyway?

Would you rather discover a loaded gun IN the range or around other people with no safe place for it to discharge if it does.?

maybe they make you unload it in a NON shooting area.. so you can then load it 20 seconds later in the shooting area.. 

these people could possibly also be NJ law makers... LOL

just to be clear.. with all my obnoxious comments.. I think its great someone opened a nice facility.. especially in south jersey.. it just sounds like they are a new business.. and terrified something bad might happen.. so they have created some processes that maybe are not well thought out.. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

It sounds like the expectation from Greenday is that you either disassemble your firearm or use a pointless lock for transportation.

[PK90 3,570]

All good points. Let me share an experience at an AZ range along the same thought process.

I was open carrying a loaded gun at the range with no intent of shooting that gun. The range nazi made me unload it and keep it on the bench. Why? Why would it be unsafe to carry a loaded gun on the range, but safe in the parking lot? What am I missing?

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[vladtepes 1,060]

5 minutes ago, PK90 said:

All good points. Let me share an experience at an AZ range along the same thought process.

I was open carrying a loaded gun at the range with no intent of shooting that gun. The range nazi made me unload it and keep it on the bench. Why? Why would it be unsafe to carry a loaded gun on the range, but safe in the parking lot? What am I missing?

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the thing that is the most crazy to me is even further than that.. 

I feel reasonably comfortable around you and guns... but that is because I know you.. and have been around you and guns.. LOL but the average idiot.. they are exponentially more likely to shoot themselves or someone else while they are drawing and then clearing a gun.. VS just leaving the damn thing in the holster.. 

its all about rules and laws designed to make us feel like we are doing something good.. when in reality we are doing nothing... OR worse.. potentially CAUSING a problem.. 

8 minutes ago, PK90 said:

All good points. Let me share an experience at an AZ range along the same thought process.

I was open carrying a loaded gun at the range with no intent of shooting that gun. The range nazi made me unload it and keep it on the bench. Why? Why would it be unsafe to carry a loaded gun on the range, but safe in the parking lot? What am I missing?

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how do you think this place would react to my old range bag.. LOL

[PK90 3,570]

Oh my. Want me to post the pic? LOL

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[vladtepes 1,060]

9 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Oh my. Want me to post the pic? LOL

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I don't think the people would be that interested.. LOL you know I still have that thing.. 

[Maksim 1,504]

I am.... you can pm me. lol. 

[pjd832 146]

I travel a lot with work and stop in every shop I pass, time allowing, and have seen in more than one shop with a range in different parts of the country the employee removing and checking clear by struggling to rack the slides of every pistol in the bag of the person there to shoot and running magnets over EVERY box of ammo carried in. 

[diamondd817 826]

I think I might put one of my double ended dildoes in my range bag and stop by the place. Id like to see how they feel about that.

[Zeke 5,504]

2 hours ago, diamondd817 said:

I think I might put one of my double ended dildoes in my range bag and stop by the place. Id like to see how they feel about that.

Ummm, why do you have one?

[Greenday 323]

I think you guys have raised some good points about the safety aspect. It's not like there's a clearing barrel or anything. The original complaints made it seem like an invasion of privacy thing whereas I clearly feel it's a minor inconvenience at worst but as far as safety goes, there's no serious benefit here.

[Zeke 5,504]

3 hours ago, diamondd817 said:

I think I might put one of my double ended dildoes in my range bag and stop by the place. Id like to see how they feel about that.

Better question... why do you have several?

[Darrenf 422]

42 minutes ago, Greenday said:

I think you guys have raised some good points about the safety aspect. It's not like there's a clearing barrel or anything. The original complaints made it seem like an invasion of privacy thing whereas I clearly feel it's a minor inconvenience at worst but as far as safety goes, there's no serious benefit here.

What I'd hope you realize is that they are trying to hide their invasion of privacy behind the veil of safety, when in fact they are putting people at risk.

 

[Darrenf 422]

The wife and I are going to stop by today to shoot.  I am not planning on bringing up the issue again at this time, because I have done what I can.  I can only hope they see the error of their ways and more people in the community bring it to their attention.  

[PK90 3,570]

The wife and I are going to stop by today to shoot.  I am not planning on bringing up the issue again at this time, because I have done what I can.  I can only hope they see the error of their ways and more people in the community bring it to their attention.  

Put some snap caps in your guns and watch the hysteria ensue.

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[Darrenf 422]

Just now, PK90 said:

Put some snap caps in your guns and watch the hysteria ensue.

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Bwahahahaha.  Just bringing .22s today, I might do that next time for fun though.

[Sniper 6,372]

11 minutes ago, Darrenf said:

The wife and I are going to stop by today to shoot.  I am not planning on bringing up the issue again at this time, because I have done what I can.  I

What, no Royal Rumble today? It's Sunday, go for it!

 

[diamondd817 826]

30 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Better question... why do you have several?

Doesn't everyone?

[Smokin .50 1,907]

2 hours ago, Greenday said:

I think you guys have raised some good points about the safety aspect. It's not like there's a clearing barrel or anything. The original complaints made it seem like an invasion of privacy thing whereas I clearly feel it's a minor inconvenience at worst but as far as safety goes, there's no serious benefit here.

Congrats, the light bulb is starting to get some juice!

As a NRA Chief Range Safety Officer I can back-up what everybody here is trying to implore upon you:

Establishment of a "SAFE DIRECTION" prior to any gun handling!

Guns don't just "go off"!  Almost 100% of the time they require human interaction in order to have ignition.  If the Range isn't conducting these searches & handling at a "SAFE TABLE" where no ammo is allowed, then everyone near the exam area is subject to a negligent discharge!  So are they pointing these potentially loaded & uncleared firearms at a specialized target that will absorb errant discharges even from modern center fire rifles, OR are they merely picking a wall that's not rifle proof to begin handling potentially loaded firearms?  What's on the other side of that wall?

Touching a firearm anywhere but inside a shooting port becomes somewhat problematic.  Personally, not only would I feel VIOLATED by a search as you describe, but a LOT more than WEARY of Pink Card Holders (technical name for counter salesmen) in the sales area not first establishing a safe direction to wit they can be plainly spotted handing someone a firearm with a mag still in it & they or the potential buyer SWEEP THE ENTIRE STORE & everyone in it during the sales process.  "DON'T WORRY, IT'S NOT LOADED" doesn't cut it!

Handling a firearm unless & until it's muzzle is pointed in a SAFE DIRECTION is a fool's errand, even when at the range inside your shooting port.  GunForHire gives away muzzle indicator stickers to apply to your plastic injection molded cases supplied by various gun manufacturers.  In this manner, muzzles can be oriented toward the BACKSTOP prior to even opening the case to play "peek-a-boo".....  

First rule of gun handling is ESTABLISH A SAFE DIRECTION!

 

 

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

It's a good time to move back to the article that Maksim posted awhile back in this thread: (… about the owner, after 1 disappointing trip to a range as a brand new shooter...) "He figured there must be a better, safer approach. So, while preparing for an MBA project at school, Wolfson decided to present a theoretical business plan — what would eventually become Range 129 — to his class. When it was well-received, Wolfson said, he began to think seriously about making it a reality."

Yeah, Maks nailed it... he's a business guy, not a gun guy. A young MBA student puts together a brilliant "business plan" for a range focused on education... but because he actually has no in-depth background in gun culture, during the business's launch, he offends a slew of current and potential customers while implementing a policy that also manages to break a cardinal rule of gun safety.  Sometimes you can't make this stuff up! 

All snark aside, what others on here have said makes perfect sense to me: They just shouldn't be touching people's guns in the shop area. (And the privacy issue pales in comparison to the safety issue IMO). I would ask that next time any of you are going there that you politely point out the added risks of their inspections (and let us know that you did). I mean, there's no point discussing the risk here and not making sure they actually know about it. I'm willing to assume this owner has good intentions... that said, I'm sure he and his staff will come to the same sensible conclusion that the people in this thread did.

[Darrenf 422]

I didn’t get out there today. Wife started feeling ill so we had to cancel.


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[Greenday 323]

All snark aside, what others on here have said makes perfect sense to me: They just shouldn't be touching people's guns in the shop area. (

The inspection area is it's own room that isn't open access. You have to be buzzed in. Just nitpicking but for those who haven't seen the place yet, it doesn't happen in the shop area.

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