I DON'T NEED LIGHTS FOR MY FIREARMS: CHANGE MY MIND

[checko 180]

Well they got along with flashlights in the modern era.


On an AR-15 what makes a $10 LED vs $100 Weapons Light vs $400 weapon light any difference?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Lumens, spill, sight distance, QUALITY

Sent from my LG-V496 using Tapatalk

[vladtepes 1,060]

2 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Of course they do. Otherwise they wouldn't sell them. The average person does not need them. Flashlight will do the same job.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

if you plan to use a light in a self defense situation.. I think that the average person will be at a disadvantage with a handheld light.. 

it takes a fair amount of practice and dexterity to operate a light in one hand while shooting with the other.. 

in addition a light on your weapon leaves another hand to do things.. open and close doors.. drag someone back that has been shot or otherwise hurt.. make phone calls to 911.. 

you an do whatever you like.. but if you are going to use a gun for self defense.. in a possible low light situation.. not having a weapon light is silly.. 

 

[High Exposure 5,662]

7 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Of course they do. Otherwise they wouldn't sell them. The average person does not need them. Flashlight will do the same job.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

I don’t know about you, but I shoot a whole lot better with two hands on the gun in my regular firing grip than with just one hand or some cocked up juggling act where I am trying to hold a flashlight and a gun and aim them both at someone that I think is trying to kill me.

It is also nice to be able to open a door, carry my kid, or dial a phone while still keeping both a gun and a light pointed at a threat.

[vladtepes 1,060]

3 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Well they got along with flashlights in the modern era.

 

 

On an AR-15 what makes a $10 LED vs $100 Weapons Light vs $400 weapon light any different?

 

 

Instead of $10 LED how about a $25 Made in U.S.A. flashlight?

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

if I am going to use a tool to possibly save my life.. possibly having to go to war with another human being.. that weapon is going to be a money pit.. and it is going to have EVERY advantage possible.. one of those is a $300 weapon light.. because I want the best most reliable equipment I can possibly buy.. 

[checko 180]

Its not even like im saying to buy the most expensive or the most bells and whistles. Im just saying dont buy a peice of shit to put on a firearm that will put a substantial amount of stress on the light itself. Firearms are an expensive hobby and in the grand scheme of things $100 is worth putting on a gun that may be used in a life threatening situation.

 

Sent from my LG-V496 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[capt14k 2,052]

if you plan to use a light in a self defense situation.. I think that the average person will be at a disadvantage with a handheld light.. 

it takes a fair amount of practice and dexterity to operate a light in one hand while shooting with the other.. 

in addition a light on your weapon leaves another hand to do things.. open and close doors.. drag someone back that has been shot or otherwise hurt.. make phone calls to 911.. 

you an do whatever you like.. but if you are going to use a gun for self defense.. in a possible low light situation.. not having a weapon light is silly.. 
 

If you aren't a SWAT Team Member, Active Military, or Mercenary how often have you used the purpose built weapons in a live scenario? Yes there is something said for being prepared, but there is a line between being prepared and role playing.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Its not even like im saying to buy the most expensive or the mist bells and whistles. Im just saying dont buy a peice of shit to put on a firearm that will put a substantial amount of stress on the light itself. Firearms are an expensive hobby and in the grand scheme of things $100 is worth putting on a gun that may be used i. A life threatening situation.

Sent from my LG-V496 using Tapatalk

I would rather put my money into a piece of history. M1 Carbine with period correct night vision scope now that is something I can get into.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

1 minute ago, capt14k said:

If you aren't a SWAT Team Member, Active Military, or Mercenary how often have you used the purpose built weapons in a live scenario? Yes there is something said for being prepared, but there is a line between being prepared and role playing.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

If you aren't a SWAT Team Member, Active Military, or Mercenary how often have you practiced using a handheld light while shooting?

[capt14k 2,052]

Lumens, spill, sight distance, QUALITY

Sent from my LG-V496 using Tapatalk

How many Lumens would be needed to see someone inside a house? Just curious.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[vladtepes 1,060]

3 minutes ago, capt14k said:

If you aren't a SWAT Team Member, Active Military, or Mercenary how often have you used the purpose built weapons in a live scenario? Yes there is something said for being prepared, but there is a line between being prepared and role playing.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I would rather put my money into a piece of history. M1 Carbine with period correct night vision scope now that is something I can get into.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

how many times have you stormed the beaches fighting Nazis with your milsurp carbines? because if you are not traveling back in time.. fighting historic wars.. you are just playing army.. 

[checko 180]

I would rather put my money into a piece of history. M1 Carbine with period correct night vision scope now that is something I can get into.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Thats super. But telling people that a $15 light is the same as a quality weapon mounted light is asinine.

Sent from my LG-V496 using Tapatalk

[capt14k 2,052]

If you aren't a SWAT Team Member, Active Military, or Mercenary how often have you practiced using a handheld light while shooting?

Probably not often enough, but I have.

With that post I was more referring to the purpose built firearm all with fitted out with lights.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[checko 180]

How many Lumens would be needed to see someone inside a house? Just curious.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

As many as i can get.

Sent from my LG-V496 using Tapatalk

[capt14k 2,052]

how many times have you stormed the beaches fighting Nazis with your milsurp carbines? because if you are not traveling back in time.. fighting historic wars.. you are just playing army.. 

No I don't reenact. I buy them for the history.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[High Exposure 5,662]

Shooting a pistol in true low light/no light conditions with a handheld flashlight using any of the current accepted techniques is the hardest, and most perishable skills there are when it comes to shooting. Add in shooting on the move and use of cover (two things I guarantee you will do if you are ever shot at or attacked) and it becomes a total shitshow.

Doing the same with a WML is no different than doing it without one. Every time you shoot you are practicing it. It is intuitive and instinctive because the light is attached to your gun and points where you aim.

On 9/9/2018 at 1:17 AM, capt14k said:

How many Lumens would be needed to see someone inside a house? Just curious.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

In a for real “no shit there I was moment”?

All of the Lumens. Every single one.

And you will still wish you had more.

[capt14k 2,052]

Going to bed. I figured this would turn into a couple hundred post thread. Next will be a discussion of the intricacies of weapons lights and the specs on each one.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[High Exposure 5,662]

Ha! Better than discussing arsenal marks and cartouches on an 1823 Dinglehopper. 

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

its not role playing if you have better gear and shoot more often than most local cops.. 

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

7 minutes ago, capt14k said:

How many Lumens would be needed to see someone inside a house? Just curious.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

In my opinion there is a range that is useful and outside of that it is a hindrance, or potentially so.

At least 150 lumens is needed to get a good look at something an average hallway distance away in completely dark ambient. The higher you go the easier it is to see.

However, if you come to a corner wall having too bright a light will temporarily blind you with the reflection off the wall before you can really see down the next hallway or into the next room. I haven't done exhaustive testing, but I set my adjustable light to 200 lumens for indoor use.

Edited to add: I run a regular monthly IDPA match at an indoor range and we do turn the lights out for some stages. This isn't just theory on my part, I swear!

[Zeke 5,504]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

In my opinion there is a range that is useful and outside of that it is a hindrance, or potentially so.

At least 150 lumens is needed to get a good look at something an average hallway distance away in completely dark ambient. The higher you go the easier it is to see.

However, if you come to a corner wall having too bright a light will temporarily blind you with the reflection off the wall before you can really see down the next hallway or into the next room. I haven't done exhaustive testing, but I set my adjustable light to 200 lumens for indoor use.

@High Exposure we need “ too bright light” vid here 

[checko 180]

Ha! Better than discussing arsenal marks and cartouches on an 1823 Dinglehopper. 
 

They stopped making the Dinglehopper in 1821 you uncultured swine!

Sent from my LG-V496 using Tapatalk

[High Exposure 5,662]

Just now, Mr.Stu said:

However, if you come to a corner wall having too bright a light will temporarily blind you with the reflection off the wall before you can really see down the next hallway or into the next room.

This is false. I have a 1500 lumen light on my rifle and 600 or 1000 lumen lights on my pistols. I have never blinded myself, or even momentarily distracted myself, while clearing a structure. Proper technique is key.

If you think about it, once you turn on any light while in the dark, your prepared night vision is toast. Once that happens, having more light is more gooder. 

[High Exposure 5,662]

4 minutes ago, Zeke said:

@High Exposure we need “ too bright light” vid here 

Good idea:

 

[Zeke 5,504]

Also @gleninjersey.. @High ExposureChapstick on lense trick works quite well cleaning up GSR. And remind me to never ever send you a pic of my Wml again. See what you started!

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

1 minute ago, High Exposure said:

This is false. I have a 1500 lumen light on my rifle and 600 or 1000 lumen lights on my pistols. I have never blinded myself, or even momentarily distracted myself, while clearing a structure. Proper technique is key.

If you think about it, once you turn on any light while in the dark, your prepared night vision is toast. Once that happens, having more light is more gooder. 

I usually agree with your take on these topics, but on this one you are mistaken. If you have a brightly illuminated object close to you and a dimly lit object far away your eye will adjust to the bright, near object and the far object will be much, much harder to see.

Not wanting to sidetrack too much, but it is a common misconception that front fog lights or ditch lights help you see better and therefore drive better at night. They don't. You see near things better, but if you turn them off you will see far things much better. Your pupils contract much quicker than they dilate.

[Screwball 483]

If you aren't a SWAT Team Member, Active Military, or Mercenary how often have you used the purpose built weapons in a live scenario? Yes there is something said for being prepared, but there is a line between being prepared and role playing.

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

Define used...

 

 

 

I’ve carried both of those setups numerous times, as well as the Glock with a TLR-3 and my P938 with TLR-6.

 

Personally, hope I never have to use them. But if it comes down to it, they will all do the job. No role playing.

 

To add in, I’m thinking your “purpose built weapons” were along the lines of your AR example (with the $15 light). I could show my 870 Police, with that Insight M3X, but the other two pictures are more on topic for this thread. I really don’t do things to defensive firearms for style points... I tend to save that for other firearms, including surplus. Just got a 6x PU scope for my Mosin... which joins the USMC M1903 sniper reproduction I have. I have a SGS copy compensator for my 92 Brigadier Inox. And of course my soon to be banished 15 round FBI magazine for my S&W 10mm. My carry guns might be plated (NP3 Plus and CPII in those two pictures), but function is important (not rusting due to battery acid sweat).

 

Just remember, day and night are roughly half of each day. Seeing a target at noon is usually easier than midnight. But criminals do like to gain the upper hand, which includes using darkness to their advantage. My only carry gun that doesn’t have a light on it is my LCP... which is size limited. But if they made a light that didn’t make the profile too much larger, I’d have it by now.

 

For practice, I recommend that definitely. It is hard to do live fire light practice... but it is somewhat possible (doesn’t need to be no-light, just shut the target spotlights in your lane off). I also recommend clearing your gun, and seeing what the light does in your house on a normal night. See how much spill you get. See what reflects light back at you. See how far out your gun is sitting to illuminate certain areas. Physically shooting the gun with the light is only part of practice.

[High Exposure 5,662]

11 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

I usually agree with your take on these topics, but on this one you are mistaken. If you have a brightly illuminated object close to you and a dimly lit object far away your eye will adjust to the bright, near object and the far object will be much, much harder to see.

Not wanting to sidetrack too much, but it is a common misconception that front fog lights or ditch lights help you see better and therefore drive better at night. They don't. You see near things better, but if you turn them off you will see far things much better. Your pupils contract much quicker than they dilate.

That’s where technique comes into play. Believe me, more light is better. You want enough light to bounce off walls and fill in the shadows your bright light creates. You use the ceiling and the floor to reflect light where you want it.

Pointing a handheld light is a lot different that lining up the sights on a firearm with a light attached to it.

The only time brighter light is a hindrance is in smoke/fog conditions.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

12 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

That’s where technique comes into play. Believe me, more light is better. You want enough light to bounce off walls and fill in the shadows your bright light creates. You use the ceiling and the floor to reflect light where you want it.

Pointing a handheld light is a lot different that lining up the sights on a firearm with a light attached to it.

The only time brighter light is a hindrance is in smoke/fog conditions.

I concede that what you say is true for the person that can commit to that very high level of training. My position is that 200-500 lumens is adequate for the layman and will not be excessively punishing if they make a highly likely error.

[W2MC 1,699]

9 hours ago, gleninjersey said:

 

[blksheep 466]

7 hours ago, capt14k said:

Of course they do. Otherwise they wouldn't sell them. The average person does not need them. Flashlight will do the same job.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

Shooting with a flashlight takes planning and practice.  I have seen thousands of cops shooting with a flashlight technique.  Unless you practice with it ALOT most people will suck with it.  A WML makes it easier.

[capt14k 2,052]

I concede that what you say is true for the person that can commit to that very high level of training. My position is that 200-500 lumens is adequate for the layman and will not be excessively punishing if they make a highly likely error.

 

So we can agree my 300 Lumen Cheap LED Flashlight attached to an AR is enough light for indoors. Can we not also agree with practice shooting with a flashlight in one hand works for a pistol? Police and military did it for years so it must.

 

In response to HE As for discussing markings of historic firearms yes it is a hell of a lot more interesting than discussing nuisances of every hypothetical scenario and which accessory is needed for it when maybe 5% discussing it actually train enough with their tacticool gear. So yes historic events are much more interesting than hypothetical scenarios that 99% will never experience.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk