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I DON'T NEED LIGHTS FOR MY FIREARMS: CHANGE MY MIND

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My input to steer this thread back on track . . .

- I believe using a WML would avoid being temporarily blinded from the muzzle flash in the dark. This would result in a better sight picture for a follow up shot if needed and to ID what is in the background.

Regards,

TokenEntry

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I agree, but that is his decision to make. What I'm seeing in this thread is how everyone is telling [mention=9309]Sniper22[/mention] how to spend his money with all the pros and cons already laid out before him.
Regards,
TokenEntry
I dont think anyone cares if he has a light or not. It's the nonchalant attitude about shooting something you cant identify. I agree that it is reckless and easily rectifiable.

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12 minutes ago, checko said:

I dont think anyone cares if he has a light or not. It's the nonchalant attitude about shooting something you cant identify. I agree that it is reckless and easily rectifiable.

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I don't see his response as being "nonchalant" as this is his home and he should know his dwelling better than anyone else. @Sniper22 already stated that if a certain criteria was met they would be considered an intruder intent on doing harm. You can't honestly 100% say his attitude to shoot someone is reckless without having been invited to his house and knowing the layout. Also, do people really do what they say they will when they come face to face with the situation or do they give pause and have a change of heart? Again, all this is hypothetical.

Regards,

TokenEntry

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I don't see his response as being "nonchalant" as this is his home and he should know his dwelling better than anyone else. [mention=9309]Sniper22[/mention] already stated that if a certain criteria was met they would be considered an intruder intent on doing harm. You can't honestly 100% say his attitude to shoot someone is reckless without having been invited to his house and knowing the layout. Also, do people really do what they say they will when they come face to face with the situation or do they give pause and have a change of heart? Again, all this is hypothetical.
Regards,
TokenEntry


You're not understanding me correctly. I'm probably not articulating it the best way possible. His arguement is essentially "fuck it, if I dont know what it is I'll shoot it and sort it out later", or at least that's how it's coming across. I'm not getting into the minutiae about he says one thing and might do another or whatever. Its irrelevant.

The fact is that if you can't reliably identify a target, you are putting yourself and others at risk. I don't care if he agrees and I'm not trying to change his mind. I will, however, freely state that I think it is dangerous and reckless to do and can easily be remedied in the vast majority of situations with a quality white light for the people who have not yer made up their mind.

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2 hours ago, checko said:

It's the nonchalant attitude about shooting something you cant identify. I agree that it is reckless and easily rectifiable.

If you've been reading along, you would have already seen that I have plenty of light to determine what I'm looking at. That's already existing and pre-planned. I don't need 500 lumens to see what color the intruder's eyes are.

1 hour ago, TokenEntry said:

I don't see his response as being "nonchalant" as this is his home and he should know his dwelling better than anyone else.

Nah, the "experts" here know my home layout better than I do...

1 hour ago, TokenEntry said:

already stated that if a certain criteria was met they would be considered an intruder intent on doing harm.

Apparently there are a few people here that think an intruder getting thru multiple layers of deterrents and defenses, would be "accidental" and they just "wandered" in, so I should take my time to understand why they decided to physically break thru and ignore all them, just so the drunk can use my bathroom. That's strange logic.

19 minutes ago, checko said:

You're not understanding me correctly. I'm probably not articulating it the best way possible. His arguement is essentially "fuck it, if I dont know what it is I'll shoot it and sort it out later", or at least that's how it's coming across.

If you think that's how my complete description is coming across, then I can't help your lack of reading comprehension and logic. If you think my description of the layers of deterrents and defenses amounts to a "fuck it" and I'll shoot what I can't see, and sort it out later", then wow... there are no words...

22 minutes ago, checko said:

The fact is that if you can't reliably identify a target, you are putting yourself and others at risk. I

You're kidding me right? If there is an intruder coming down my hallway in the middle of the night, after physically taking major effort to break in, there really isn't much to figure out. Do you really need to know his hair color, eye color or the color of his shirt with a 500 lumen WL, before taking action? He's there to do harm, and I put my family at risk to delay any response.

2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

You would be suprised how many gun owners do NOT think weapon lights for home/self defense are good things.

There are some here who think a WL, by itself, is the cure-all to stop a home intruder. Talk about being short-sighted without looking at the overall picture and conditions in the field of play.

 

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3 hours ago, Zeke said:

Because you quote everyone out of context.

I quote the part I'm responding to. If someone wants to read your whole post, they can scroll up to see it. I don't waste space and requote a complete post, like others do, i just quote just the point I'm referring to.

3 hours ago, Zeke said:

He can be wrong if he wants to. 

I'm really interested to hear what your home defense, deterrent, set-up and plan is. It would really be beneficial and I could learn something. Please post it.

 

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2 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

I quote the part I'm responding to. If someone wants to read your whole post, they can scroll up to see it. I don't waste space and requote a complete post, like others do, i just quote just the point I'm referring to.

I'm really interested to hear what your home defense, deterrent, set-up and plan is. It would really be beneficial and I could learn something. Please post it.

 

It would fall on your deaf ears

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1 hour ago, checko said:


 

 


You're not understanding me correctly. I'm probably not articulating it the best way possible. His arguement is essentially "fuck it, if I dont know what it is I'll shoot it and sort it out later", or at least that's how it's coming across. I'm not getting into the minutiae about he says one thing and might do another or whatever. Its irrelevant.

The fact is that if you can't reliably identify a target, you are putting yourself and others at risk. I don't care if he agrees and I'm not trying to change his mind. I will, however, freely state that I think it is dangerous and reckless to do and can easily be remedied in the vast majority of situations with a quality white light for the people who have not yer made up their mind.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

I just reread the whole entire thread just to be sure I'm not misunderstanding anyone's posts made. I do not see @Sniper22 posts conveying a "nonchalant" AKA "fuck it" attitude. He would be a fool to post these deterrents and layout of his home on the forum. Since this is all hypothetical. Let's say there was an intruder in his home and he did shoot and kill the person. Will the state prosecutor argue that he should have had a WML on his firearm even though he perceived that his life and family were in immediate danger? I don't see how a jury would find him guilty. What I'm seeing here is that people are already sending him to the gallows while the crime scene is still being chalk marked.

Regards,

TokenEntry

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If you overlook the fact that the lens itself may get dirtier when the light extends beyond the muzzle (which, as I understand it, can be contained with tape/vaseline/etc.), aren’t there some benefits to the light extending beyond the gun? Can anyone elaborate? I don’t know enough to speak on this particular subject. 

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If you overlook the fact that the lens itself may get dirtier when the light extends beyond the muzzle (which, as I understand it, can be contained with tape/vaseline/etc.), aren’t there some benefits to the light extending beyond the gun? Can anyone elaborate? I don’t know enough to speak on this particular subject.


You will still get some carbon with a lens behind the muzzle... will be less, but still will get it. Cleaning isn’t that hard. Plenty of tips for that.

Putting the lens in front of the muzzle... really only two benefits. First one, a stop to help keep the slide from being pushed out of battery. Second, no shadow from the gun. People running lights on long guns... it can be more apparent. You can see a barrel shadow depending on the relation of the light to it. Some people might find it to be distracting.

Being the subject of weapon lights, I actually just ordered a new TLR-6 from AIM. It fits Glocks, but only got it because it is a common firearm. No laser on this model, so looking to put that module into my SIG P938... as I hate the laser (I run it off, but rather just be a light, with no chance of just the laser mode coming up). If it all works good, I’ll put the laser/light into the Glock adapter, and toss it up for sale.

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[mention=5381]Zeke[/mention]

Why is that, because I sometimes have a different opinion on a topic then others?

Last time I checked, we were in America, and we have a 1st Amendment, right?

Or, is this forum located in North Korea? 

 

 

Read your own words there Sniper22. You and others have done the same when I and others go against the opinion of the majority here.

 

 

Zeke IMO brings nothing to the table with his one line nonsense posts that are mainly just to increase his post count. Simply ignore him.

 

 

I do not see you shooting any intruder as a non chalant attitude. If we lived in a free state you would be in your right. Seems others have been brainwashed by NJ Law. Which you likely would be prosecuted under. We should not have to ascertain whether the person in our home in the middle of the night has a weapon and what their purpose is for being there. Your home is your castle. Someone enters if without your permission they are a threat and should be able to be dealt with accordingly. Sadly that is not the case in NJ.

 

 

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I’m partial to Surefire lights. For pistols the X300U is my first pick. 

Any of the main distributors is OK. I have found myself buying from Brownells and Primary Arms mostly as of late. Big Tex Outdoor is also an excellent online shop with good prices and good gear in stock.

Also, keep your eyes peeled for Columbus Day sales coming up. 

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Yea, like most other firearm things... lights come down to personal preference.

I had a Surefire X300U... just didn’t like the controls. For me, more instinctive to the toggle to control both momentary and constant opposed to toggle just doing constant, and pushing for momentary. But that also goes to me starting off on the Insight M3 years back.

Swapping to the TLR-7, I still prefer toggles... but for the size difference, I will use those different controls over the TLR-1.

Most of my light purchases happen to be on Optics Planet/DVOR or LAPoliceGear. As High Exposure mentioned, keep an eye out for sales. I do notice LAPG doing A LOT more random sale codes throughout the month... and not just on holidays. Another option... classifieds here, MeWe, and the EE on AR15.com (get a lot of people buying stuff, not liking it, then selling like-new sights and lights).

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21 hours ago, High Exposure said:

I’m partial to Surefire lights. For pistols the X300U is my first pick. 

Any of the main distributors is OK. I have found myself buying from Brownells and Primary Arms mostly as of late. Big Tex Outdoor is also an excellent online shop with good prices and good gear in stock.

Also, keep your eyes peeled for Columbus Day sales coming up. 

What are your thoughts on laser/light combo? 

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On 9/25/2018 at 10:49 PM, Sniper22 said:

You're kidding me right? If there is an intruder coming down my hallway in the middle of the night, after physically taking major effort to break in, there really isn't much to figure out. Do you really need to know his hair color, eye color or the color of his shirt with a 500 lumen WL, before taking action? He's there to do harm, and I put my family at risk to delay any response.

Nobody here said that you needed to identify the intruder's eye color, you're twisting people's words.  You need to identify if they are an immediate threat to you, and you simply cannot do that based off of someone's silhouette.  A prosecutor will most definitely target the fact that you could only see his outline, and not determine whether or not he had a weapon in his hand, was facing towards or away from you, so on and so forth.  Someone can most certainly break into your house, through all these strategic deterrents, and still not necessarily be an immediate threat to you....especially in NJ.

If I remember correctly, you have night lights placed throughout your house and there is enough ambient light to see someone.  Well that means that they can see you just as well as you can see them.  Your only advantage is knowing the layout of your house.  Why not have the advantage of being able to blind and disorient them?  Now imagine that the intruder has a light.  Even a dim light, we'll say 50 lumens, is more than enough to blind and disorient you at night.  Now you can't protect your family.

Don't mistake my intention of pointing these things out to you.  I have absolutely no sympathy for this hypothetical intruder.  If you shot someone that broke into your house, I'd pat you on the back.  But that doesn't protect you from the criminal and civil prosecutions that will be sure to follow.

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I think visible lasers on pistols are useless.


For defensive use... I agree. Searching for a little dot isn’t how you are supposed to shoot. Having night vision, an IR laser likely will be a future investment... because they are cool to mess around with.

Training... I really like lasers for dry-fire practice. The harder to shoot guns that I tossed lasers on still have them on. If I use the gun defensively... it rarely will hurt being there (isn’t instinctive for me to use the laser).

It is when people use lasers predominantly for aiming, and don’t have anything to fall back on (can barely get on paper without them), that I have issue with them. Using them as a crutch (or worse, depending on it) is doing it wrong.

But to put my view of laser/light combo, I guess I can sum it up here...

tHMQQ7v.jpg

1x9GSDZ.jpg

No more laser on my P938! Hated the laser, but ran it with the light because if it switched modes, light only was between it and laser only. Like simplicity with this... light can only go on.

If someone wants a laser/light TLR-6, which fits railed Glocks, keep an eye on the classifieds. [emoji41]

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8 hours ago, Screwball said:

 


For defensive use... I agree. Searching for a little dot isn’t how you are supposed to shoot. Having night vision, an IR laser likely will be a future investment... because they are cool to mess around with.

Training... I really like lasers for dry-fire practice. The harder to shoot guns that I tossed lasers on still have them on. If I use the gun defensively... it rarely will hurt being there (isn’t instinctive for me to use the laser).

It is when people use lasers predominantly for aiming, and don’t have anything to fall back on (can barely get on paper without them), that I have issue with them. Using them as a crutch (or worse, depending on it) is doing it wrong.

But to put my view of laser/light combo, I guess I can sum it up here...

tHMQQ7v.jpg

1x9GSDZ.jpg

No more laser on my P938! Hated the laser, but ran it with the light because if it switched modes, light only was between it and laser only. Like simplicity with this... light can only go on.

If someone wants a laser/light TLR-6, which fits railed Glocks, keep an eye on the classifieds. emoji41.png

 

When learning navigation on the open seas, we were taught to never -just- rely on electronics. Dead reckoning, compasses and sextants where the way. Electronics can fail at any given time. No matter what the device.
 

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On 10/3/2018 at 10:49 PM, Screwball said:

 


For defensive use... I agree. Searching for a little dot isn’t how you are supposed to shoot. Having night vision, an IR laser likely will be a future investment... because they are cool to mess around with.

Training... I really like lasers for dry-fire practice. The harder to shoot guns that I tossed lasers on still have them on. If I use the gun defensively... it rarely will hurt being there (isn’t instinctive for me to use the laser).

It is when people use lasers predominantly for aiming, and don’t have anything to fall back on (can barely get on paper without them), that I have issue with them. Using them as a crutch (or worse, depending on it) is doing it wrong.

But to put my view of laser/light combo, I guess I can sum it up here...

tHMQQ7v.jpg

1x9GSDZ.jpg

No more laser on my P938! Hated the laser, but ran it with the light because if it switched modes, light only was between it and laser only. Like simplicity with this... light can only go on.

If someone wants a laser/light TLR-6, which fits railed Glocks, keep an eye on the classifieds. emoji41.png

 

I have a TLR-6 on my Shield, which is my primary carry gun, and I absolutely love it.  I didn't know that they sold TLR-6's without the laser.  Mine is set to only use the light though, as I am not a fan of lasers.

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I have a TLR-6 on my Shield, which is my primary carry gun, and I absolutely love it.  I didn't know that they sold TLR-6's without the laser.  Mine is set to only use the light though, as I am not a fan of lasers.


AIM Surplus has the light only in larger gun styles... 1911, Glock, M&P. Can just swap insides. I’ve never seen them, either. Someone posted it on Pistol-Forum... and I was interested. Emailed AIM to confirm similar setup to the regular TLR-6s, and ordered right after.

I originally felt that way (ran light only), but when you switch modes, light only is followed by laser only. If, worst case scenario, modes change... no light (laser). I ran it with the laser/light. If s*** happens then, you then are in light only. It does take a little effort to switch modes (push from both sides), but wouldn’t be impossible under stress. Not like other Streamlight mode changes, like enable/disable strobe on TLR-1/7 (touch the switch 9 times fast, hold on 10).

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Received this morning - seemed too logical to not have one. It came with the “Glock/Universal” key already installed and it snapped right on, seems rock solid. I’ve heard that the TLR-1 can take the finish off the PVD in the spots that its clipped on, but I’m not overly concerned with that. Anyone else with P229’s/Legions find that one of the other keys provides a tighter fit? Obviously, I haven’t shot with the light installed yet. 

C20498C4-AE21-407A-A6C7-65F912A27EC9.jpeg

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