Please design this Mag for AR

[SJG 253]

y.    "Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than [15] 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.  The term shall not include an attached tubular device which is capable of holding only .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

The AR mag that holds 30 rounds but will only feed 10 at a time continuously and directly, then you press a button on the mag and it will then permit you to fire 10 more continuously and then press it again for the next 10 etc--since you cannot fire more than 10 continuously, without pausing and activating a button on the mag it should be good to go

Thoughts???

[JohnnyB 4,322]

It can be done very easily! Only problem I see is it will still be a magazine that holds 30 rounds.

Just because it stops twice at 11 and 21 requiring a button push to unlock the catch on the follower, does not mean it would pass muster in the PRNJ!

The flaw with the design I have in my head is, you could defeat it by taping or holding the button down so the follower could not catch.

[capt14k 2,052]

The way that law is written it sounds like it would pass muster.


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[SJG 253]

Yeah, holding more than the permissible max is only one part of the equation, in addition, the "ammunition(has to)to be fed continuously and directly. If it stops at 10 and stops again at 20, i don't think it qualifies as being "fed continuously" which can only mean without interruption or intervention by the user.

[capt14k 2,052]

Yeah, holding more than the permissible max is only one part of the equation, in addition, the "ammunition(has to)to be fed continuously and directly. If it stops at 10 and stops again at 20, i don't think it qualifies as being "fed continuously" which can only mean without interruption or intervention by the user.

That is my reading of the law. There is no or.

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[SJG 253]

What about a stripper clip adapter that goes into the magwell that would permit the rifle to accept and feed the ammo. That does not sound like a "box, drum, tube or other container"--meaning, it is not a magazine. Just insert the ammo on a stripper clip into the adapter on the magwell

[capt14k 2,052]

What about a stripper clip adapter that goes into the magwell that would permit the rifle to accept and feed the ammo. That does not sound like a "box, drum, tube or other container"--meaning, it is not a magazine. Just insert the ammo on a stripper clip into the adapter on the magwell

Stripper Clip would be other container. I like the first idea more.

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[Screwball 483]

What about a stripper clip adapter that goes into the magwell that would permit the rifle to accept and feed the ammo. That does not sound like a "box, drum, tube or other container"--meaning, it is not a magazine. Just insert the ammo on a stripper clip into the adapter on the magwell

Look into the Japanese Type 11... they made a hopper system where clipped ammo would be fed into the gun (30 rounds). It was 6.5mm, but unlike the other light machine gun (similar to the Bren gun), there wasn’t a 7.7mm version with a hopper. Magazine was looked to be superior than a hopper.

Problem is going to be what happens to the clip? The AR wasn’t designed to feed from a stripper clip, and allow the clip to be ejected through the action. Magazine well and ejection port are at a right angle, and you have a bolt to contend with.

For the original design, definitely get a plan together and check to see if it is good to go with NJ law. Personally, isn’t going to be a concern of mine in the near future, but it is nice to push things like that (until lawmakers see it as evil, and it gets banned with legislation).

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

9 hours ago, SJG said:

y.    "Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than [15] 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.  The term shall not include an attached tubular device which is capable of holding only .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

The AR mag that holds 30 rounds but will only feed 10 at a time continuously and directly, then you press a button on the mag and it will then permit you to fire 10 more continuously and then press it again for the next 10 etc--since you cannot fire more than 10 continuously, without pausing and activating a button on the mag it should be good to go

Thoughts???

Good idea! but trying to find someone to spend the time to make this is going to be difficult since I think this would only fly in NJ. I think most other states that banned mags over 10 rounds ban all magazines that hold more than 10 rounds regardless of what type of firearm they fit into or whether or not they continuously feed the firearm.

[capt14k 2,052]

Good idea! but trying to find someone to spend the time to make this is going to be difficult since I think this would only fly in NJ. I think most other states that banned mags over 10 rounds ban all magazines that hold more than 10 rounds regardless of what type of firearm they fit into or whether or not they continuously feed the firearm.

You have a point there. It would have to be a non profit type venture.


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[SJG 253]

like a venture funded by members of this forum?

Is there any forum member who has the technical know how to design and build a prototype?

[weekend_junkie 129]

I'm stumbling on this a few days late, so here goes...

The discussion above made me think of the Crossman 760 Pumpmaster has a magazine and a reservoir.  If you haven't used these before, you can only load the magazine from the reservoir after a thorough amount of shaking and cussing.  Another example is the Daisy Powerline 340, a little Beretta 92 clone.  It also has a reservoir that feeds into a magazine by pulling a small plunger.

That mechanism seems to follow the rules set forth of a non- continuous and direct feeding so it's a good start to study.  The main engineered principle that the BB magazine has different from all of our standard cartridge magazines is that it is bottom loaded. Here's my thoughts to design a mag that will work

- gotta be single stack.  The mag-loaded cartridges are integral to the loading operation, acting like bearings for the mechanism.

- "separate-then-load". Per above, 

- the mag would likely need to be the length of a standard 30 rd to house the single stack sorting tray and then the single stack mag, but would be as wide as necessary to hold the non-loaded cartridges in a reservoir.

- This thing is going to rattle. Without some type of side pressure plate to force rounds into the sorting tray, rounds would rely on gravity to be sorted.  If a pressure plate is designed in, then you have yet another spring or set of springs needed to be captured.  Since more parts means more failure mode opportunities, the math on cost/benefit gets more complex along with the design.

 

Anyone with decent CAD skills want to sit down for a beer and flesh this baby out?

[Lambo2936 297]

The idea is something like a high capacity airsoft magazine, then.. if you arent familiar check that design out.

Tbh seems easier to just use stripper clips. When you are good at it its almost as fast as just reloading a mag lol

[raz-0 1,259]

Look at the guts of the EMA round counter magazine. 

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/07/06/ema-tactical-countdown-magazine-review/

Now imagine that the tape strip that unspools for the round count were sturdy enough to punch some holes in so that a detent would latch into the holes/notches on the tape every 10 rounds and locks up the magazine. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

One of the biggest problems I see at my work.. is the over engineering of things that have a simple solution.. 

now I don't suffer under the oppressive anti gun NJ dictatorship anymore so I know its easy for me to say from the outside.. 

but isn't what you are asking for kind of an overly complex solution.. AR mag changes are ridiculously fast to begin with... but if you really wanted to have more ammo at the mag well.. couldn't you just use a mag coupler? and get two mags together.. that would at least get you to 20 on the gun.. drop mag.. slide it over and push up.. 

I would trust a coupler on some reliable mags over some overly complicated mechanism that is supposed to stop my rounds every ten shots?

just asking if this is really a solution? or an opportunity to introduce more points of failure and over complexity.. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

On 9/25/2018 at 3:07 PM, raz-0 said:

Look at the guts of the EMA round counter magazine. 

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/07/06/ema-tactical-countdown-magazine-review/

Now imagine that the tape strip that unspools for the round count were sturdy enough to punch some holes in so that a detent would latch into the holes/notches on the tape every 10 rounds and locks up the magazine. 

I think in the spirit of the law.. the mechanism would have to be designed in a way that you could not readily override the mechanism.. 

if its just a latch.. button.. etc.. you would need to activate and then release it.. 

now that is JUST an assumption on my part as I have no basis for thinking that.. but I just believe if the magazine is built in such a way that it can hold more than 10 rounds.. and is CAPABLE of feeding more than ten rounds continuously without interruption.. you will be back on shaky ground... 

[silverado427 10,679]

37 minutes ago, vladtepes said:

One of the biggest problems I see at my work.. is the over engineering of things that have a simple solution.. 

now I don't suffer under the oppressive anti gun NJ dictatorship anymore so I know its easy for me to say from the outside.. 

but isn't what you are asking for kind of an overly complex solution.. AR mag changes are ridiculously fast to begin with... but if you really wanted to have more ammo at the mag well.. couldn't you just use a mag coupler? and get two mags together.. that would at least get you to 20 on the gun.. drop mag.. slide it over and push up.. 

I would trust a coupler on some reliable mags over some overly complicated mechanism that is supposed to stop my rounds every ten shots?

just asking if this is really a solution? or an opportunity to introduce more points of failure and over complexity.. 

Or you could just move to a gun friendly STATE.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Just now, silverado427 said:

Or you could just move to a gun friendly STATE.

well yeah for sure.. and then you can put your 40 round mag on your suppressed SBR.. but thats not an option for everyone.. LOL