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flatfish

Gun Ownership question

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He will be charged with unlawful possession until they sort it out.  You know the way it works .....Get  the card before you carry them around.  There is an exemption for hunting.
:facepalm:

I give up. I'm glad I'm in America. Peace out.
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17 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

He will be charged with unlawful possession until they sort it out.  You know the way it works .....Get  the card before you carry them around. 

Exactly..

This is the point I was trying to make. What someone has said here, basically, owning a firearm is against the law in NJ except for exemptions. Why make it more difficult to sort it out when the odds are against you.

MY OPINION (that's still allowed here, right?) is that I wouldn't go anywhere with a firearm in my possession that I couldn't prove that I owned, either by purchase/invoice, a Will, a COE or other type of document, or at least, show a FPID, just for the reason you mentioned.

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27 minutes ago, flatfish said:

I went through the lot of rifles and shotguns here, only 5 have any sort of number on them. Most have no numbers, but from what I read online, they didn't require serial numbers till 1968. Most all of these are at least that old. It looks like only the Remington .22 rifles, one Remington pump shotgun, the single Remington semiauto rifle, and the Garand have serial numbers. Nothing is stolen and nothing has seen the light of day since at least 1987 or so. Most haven't been out of the attic in 60 years.

If having an FPID card is so important, then why didn't we need one years ago while hunting? I remember going hunting with my uncle in the 70's and all we had were hunting licenses. I do remember going through some sort of shotgun qualification course when I was a kid, but that was with my uncle's Ithaca 12ga, (which I've not found here yet, but maybe that explains why there's one odd newer Remington pump in the lot from the mid 80's?).


I did find another box stuffed back in the eaves of the attic that had another Garand, a Lee Enfield, a Japanese rifle, and what I believe is a German Mauser. two were wrapped up in old flags, and in the same box with my grandfather's old WW2 uniform. The Garand was wrapped up in a long wood coat, and the Enfield was in a makeshift bag made from an old pair of pants. The only ammo in that box was for the Japanese rifle, appears to be a 7.7, and about 300 empty .303 casings. His discharge papers and some papers showing his shipping the Japanese and German Rifles home. Nothing on the Garand and the .303. These rifles are all well used, lots of nicks and scrapes, lots of oily stains on the wood, even dirt packed in the Japanese rifle. Its got numbers but they're not listed on the papers in the box. The Japanese rifle had no bolt, but it explains why I found an odd bolt wrapped up in a pair of old green rags in a duffel bag elsewhere in the attic a few months ago. It fits the Japanese rifle and has matching numbers.

I also found a 36" long double barrel shotgun that's missing its wood, there's no markings on it at all and it appears to be black powder. Its got two hammers with little nipples with holes where the hammers strike. The barrel has a lot of fancy scroll work but its mostly worn off. The stock is badly broken and fragile, and the forend is missing. It was leaning against a wall stud behind the knee wall upstairs, with a bag of shot, a can of powder, and a small tin full of caps. It was half buried in the insulation and half in dust.

The other Garand is like new, likely it never saw combat, but the one I found today likely saw lots of use and lots of weather.  My grandfather never spoke about his time in the war, nor did his brothers. They all brought back souvenirs, but only my grandfather was in both Europe and the Pacific. This was my other grandfather's box, from my mother's side, he died when I was real young but he lived with us here back then. I suppose he brought it here when he moved here in the early 60's. It was stuffed all the way back in a corner, wedged between the downstairs floor joists and rafters behind a wall.

The attic was partially finished off for storage in the late 60's, it originally was just open rafters and planks to walk on. They put up knee walls along both sides and put tongue and groove planks down in between so the area could be used for storage. Over the years, it got pretty much filled up with everything from old furniture, clothes, holiday decorations, old books, steamer trunks, and lots of old military boxes that were used to store all sorts of stuff. I'll be doing more digging around up there as the weather cools down.

If you are going hunting you don't need the FPID.  That is one of the few exemptions if you don't have a FPID. Hunting and back with only reasonable deviations.  If you have the FPID you don't have to worry about reasonable deviations.  That and many places require it to buy any ammo.

The "capture papers" enhance the value of those milsurps.

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28 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

He will be charged with unlawful possession until they sort it out.  You know the way it works .....Get  the card before you carry them around.  There is an exemption for hunting.

Please tell me what probable cause would the police have to make that arrest?

Please post examples of that happening so I can be better informed.

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First off, if I have a gun in my car, its likely heading to either a gun shop or place to shoot it.
Second, it would obviously be locked in the trunk unloaded.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found this online, and the way i read this, its illegal in NJ to posses a firearm without an FID card?

2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons.
(https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-2c/section-2c-39-5)
2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons. a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

c.Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

d.Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

e.Firearms or other weapons in educational institutions.

.........................................................................................

It looks like the law itself contradicts itself in several places.

This is from the NJ SP site https://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

13:54-1.13 Firearms passing to heirs or legatees
(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of this subchapter c
oncerning the acquisition of a firearm, a permit to purchase a
handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card shall not be
required of an heir or legatee for the passing of a firearm,
upon the death of its owner. A person so acquiring ownership ma
y retain the firearm if he or she meets the requirements
of N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5 and 1.6.
(b) If an heir or legatee is not qualified to acquire a fir
earm, he or she may retain ownership of the firearm for the
purpose of sale for a period of 180 days, which period may be
extended by the chief of police or the Superintendent.
During such period the firearm must be placed in th
e custody of the chief of police or Superintendent.
(c) In the case of assault firearms or machine guns
disposition shall be in accordance with N.J.A.C. 13:54-5.
_____________________________________________________

Going by this, I do not need an FPID card?

It looks to me like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. Under the NJ code statutes, its illegal to posses any firearm without having an FID card, but according to the NJ SP, its not needed if you inherited the firearms????

A stop at the local PD today to pickup forms got me nothing, I was told that if I wasn't buying anything, I don't need to apply for a card, I finally was told that if I must, I can download the forms online. Another officer handed me three pages of forms that according to the website are outdated and no longer valid according to the NJ SP site.

Do I fill out the outdated, (2002 version) of the form I was handed or do I use the form online from 2009?

Do I fill out both versions and let them decide when I go back?

When I asked the officer at the desk who do I bring them back to and he didn't know, he said he doesn't handle that. No one there had an answer???

https://www.njsp.org/firearms/pdf/sts-033.pdf

Or do I simply not need to go through all this hassle?

 

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6 minutes ago, flatfish said:

It looks like the law itself contradicts itself in several places.

Welcome to The Peoples Republic of New Jersey! Get the stupid FPID card using whatever forms your local PD gave you! The FPID card is also a permit to carry a rifle or shotgun, unloaded, outside the deviation transport laws.

Who cares what forms you fill out if the end result is you have the FPID card in the end? You are good to go! You are definitely better off with a FPID than without!

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@flatfish NJ, being what it is, you have to read all the statutes to find out the exemptions.

If you have no intention to buy guns or ammo andare content with directly to hunting, range, or FFL with only reasonable deviations you don't need the FPID.

Use the forms from NJSP.org.  You will need the ORI from the PD when you get fingerprinted.  I've no idea what that costs now.

Whenever I had any business for a FPID or P2P I've never had any one tell me who to return them to.  I just gave them to the front desk or receptionist.

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8 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Who cares what forms you fill out if the end result is you have the FPID card in the end? You are good to go! You are definitely better off with a FPID than without!

and just like that, someone else who agrees getting a FPID is a good and safe idea... imagine that...

 

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I live in PA, and have hunted in NJ and PA for 35 plus years, I never once had an issue carrying my guns in the trunk or in my truck in NJ. Never had any such card either. I've been stopped a few times, never once was a I asked what the gun was for, but I suppose the camo gear, duck blind, and decoys in the back pretty much were self explanatory.
Being I've always driven an old single cab truck, my gun rides either in the gun rack or in its soft case leaning against the dash.
I sure as shit ain't putting it in the bed to get all beat up. The ammo is in an ammo can on the floor. Never once did an officer ever even ask me to step out of the truck or ask to check my firearm there. I got more grief over things like dirty license plates, wide tires, or missing mudflaps. I have had them check a deer in the back for a tag and verify someone in the truck had a hunting license.

I never buy ammo in Jersey, its too f'ing expensive there. I buy online or reload my own. Most places won't even sell shells without an ID now there. If they don't want my business, I'll just bring the ammo with me. Its bad enough what they charge for an out of state license these days. Its not like there's a glut of locals either, I rarely run into any local guys duck hunting there. The only guys I see are from DE or PA. Especially during the weekdays.

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15 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Please show me cases of where the police seized guns that someone couldn't prove that they owned them.  Show me cases where people have been legally transporting any gun and have been hassled. 

 

Willingboro gun buyback. Cop confiscated three guns from a guy when he tried to skirt the rules and sold three guns and went back to car and got three more . Cop told him unless he could prove ownership then and there he just lost them. Guy was pissed!

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4 minutes ago, glockncolts said:

Willingboro gun buyback. Cop confiscated three guns from a guy when he tried to skirt the rules and sold three guns and went back to car and got three more . Cop told him unless he could prove ownership then and there he just lost them. Guy was pissed!

And this should be trumpeted long and loud.....time to shut down this 'buyback' farce!

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14 hours ago, GRIZ said:

The magazines were never released.  There is nothing to allow police to serve as a delivery service for returned property.

Released from whom? If the mags were somehow out of jurisdiction maybe blaming the out of towners would work but if the mags stayed In town they should have been released. IDK if its the Cleo or prosecuter who had the say on go/no go about releasing either way it's confiscation. The police should have been told to return them, what law precludes them from a common courtesy, they are immune from the constrictions of the 10 rd law no? Seems to me like it was just a matter of discretion and they chose wrong.

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19 minutes ago, siderman said:

The police should have been told to return them, what law precludes them from a common courtesy, they are immune from the constrictions of the 10 rd law no? Seems to me like it was just a matter of discretion and they chose wrong.

Another great point. Police are allowed to carry 15 round "high capacity" mags with the new law, so having them "transport" them back to their legal owner is NOT breaking the new law.

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3 hours ago, glockncolts said:

Willingboro gun buyback. Cop confiscated three guns from a guy when he tried to skirt the rules and sold three guns and went back to car and got three more . Cop told him unless he could prove ownership then and there he just lost them. Guy was pissed!

There is a number of reasons you dont go to gun buybacks, first and foremost their illegal to begin with. 

If the guy didnt have an FPID, he was breaking the law himself. 

In this case, both parties were overreaching their responsibilities when he brought more firearms than he was allowed, or the cops would be willing to overlook as possibly illegally transported.  

If the guy requested the firearms back, who knows what he would be charged with, and if he broke any laws... so the cops may have had a legal reason to actually confiscate them. Whether we agree with the reason or not.  

This is no different than any other material subject. Can a cop pull you over and request proof of ownership for anything in your possession? Nothing in the law states firearms are any different.

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5 hours ago, glockncolts said:

Willingboro gun buyback. Cop confiscated three guns from a guy when he tried to skirt the rules and sold three guns and went back to car and got three more . Cop told him unless he could prove ownership then and there he just lost them. Guy was pissed!

Wow!!! Good thing that was posted 3 hours after my post.  Can you find me an incident that happened 3 weeks or 3 years ago?  

The guy was wrong as he was trying to skirt the rules.  The cops were wrong in confiscating the guns.  However, being he wasn't complying with the rules he might consider himself lucky he wasn't arrested for illegal possession.

1 hour ago, siderman said:

Released from whom? If the mags were somehow out of jurisdiction maybe blaming the out of towners would work but if the mags stayed In town they should have been released. IDK if its the Cleo or prosecuter who had the say on go/no go about releasing either way it's confiscation. The police should have been told to return them, what law precludes them from a common courtesy, they are immune from the constrictions of the 10 rd law no? Seems to me like it was just a matter of discretion and they chose wrong.

Not a case of the police being permitted to possess the magazines.  The law doesn't allow the police to transfer magazines to someone not permitted to have them.  That's what it would be if they returned those to the owner.

See @JackDaWack''s post above.  Pretty much covers it.

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Isn't the goal of the gun buy backs to get those dangerous guns out of the streets? It seems counterproductive to me to limit the number of guns to three per person. Even worse, confiscating the guns could have a chilling effect on future gun buy backs. I hope this incident gets publicized a lot.

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3 minutes ago, WP22 said:

Isn't the goal of the gun buy backs to get those dangerous guns out of the streets? It seems counterproductive to me to limit the number of guns to three per person. Even worse, confiscating the guns could have a chilling effect on future gun buy backs. I hope this incident gets publicized a lot.

There should be more effort in getting dangerous people off the street.  Gun buybacks give the impression they're doing something.

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53 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

The law doesn't allow the police to transfer magazines to someone not permitted to have them.  That's what it would be if they returned those to the owner.

I'm not sure why you keep repeating that inaccuracy. 15 round mags are LEGAL to possess in your home until Dec. 13th.

..." a person who legally owns a semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 10 rounds or a large capacity ammunition magazine as defined under subsection y. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition on the effective date of P.L.     , c.     (C.       ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill) may retain possession of that rifle or magazine for a period not to exceed 180 days 1[from] after1 the effective date of this act. "

That Act/Law was signed by Murphy on June 13th.

57 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Not a case of the police being permitted to possess the magazines. 

(New section)     Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:39-6, a law enforcement officer may possess and carry while on duty a large capacity ammunition magazine and possess and carry while off duty a large capacity ammunition magazine which is capable of holding up to 15 rounds of ammunition that can be fed continuously and directly into a semi-automatic firearm.]1

https://legiscan.com/NJ/text/A2761/id/1812547

In both cases, it's legal to possess the mags in your home, and police are allowed to possess 15 rounds mags, so there would be zero issue for the cops to transport and return these legal mags to their owner.... unless they don't want to, which would be an illegal act.

 

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6 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

I'm not sure why you keep repeating that inaccuracy. 15 round mags are LEGAL to possess in your home until Dec. 13th.

..." a person who legally owns a semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 10 rounds or a large capacity ammunition magazine as defined under subsection y. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition on the effective date of P.L.     , c.     (C.       ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill) may retain possession of that rifle or magazine for a period not to exceed 180 days 1[from] after1 the effective date of this act. "

That Act/Law was signed by Murphy on June 13th.

(New section)     Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:39-6, a law enforcement officer may possess and carry while on duty a large capacity ammunition magazine and possess and carry while off duty a large capacity ammunition magazine which is capable of holding up to 15 rounds of ammunition that can be fed continuously and directly into a semi-automatic firearm.]1

https://legiscan.com/NJ/text/A2761/id/1812547

In both cases, it's legal to possess the mags in your home, and police are allowed to possess 15 rounds mags, so there would be zero issue for the cops to transport and return these legal mags to their owner.... unless they don't want to, which would be an illegal act.

 

Not inaccurate.  Click on your link and read the entire statute.  The only transfer permitted in the statute is, "...to any person or firm entitled to possess...".  The police would be violating this if they returned them.  It is NOT a case of police being allowed to possess them.

Read the entire statute.

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On 9/22/2018 at 10:17 PM, flatfish said:

I did find another box stuffed back in the eaves of the attic that had another Garand, a Lee Enfield, a Japanese rifle, and what I believe is a German Mauser. two were wrapped up in old flags, and in the same box with my grandfather's old WW2 uniform. The Garand was wrapped up in a long wood coat, and the Enfield was in a makeshift bag made from an old pair of pants. The only ammo in that box was for the Japanese rifle, appears to be a 7.7, and about 300 empty .303 casings. His discharge papers and some papers showing his shipping the Japanese and German Rifles home. Nothing on the Garand and the .303. These rifles are all well used, lots of nicks and scrapes, lots of oily stains on the wood, even dirt packed in the Japanese rifle. Its got numbers but they're not listed on the papers in the box. The Japanese rifle had no bolt, but it explains why I found an odd bolt wrapped up in a pair of old green rags in a duffel bag elsewhere in the attic a few months ago. It fits the Japanese rifle and has matching numbers.

 

Whatever you do with these guns, make sure you keep those bringback papers with the guns. Sounds like you have some nice historic stuff there.

 

You certainly don't need to have an FPID to own these guns, but but it would be a good idea to get one, some guns shops won't sell you ammo without one.

On 9/22/2018 at 10:17 PM, flatfish said:

 

 

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I'll have to laminate the old bring back papers, they're all but falling apart. Some of them list an old family address in WV, a few list my great grandfather's address in Philly, and a few list my other grandfather's  address here in NJ. All of whom have been gone since the early 70's or before.

I stopped by the PD today, was told 'not today' 'too busy' try again later in the week. I was also told by one woman, I guess a clerk or sorts since she was not in uniform, that the papers they gave me are obsolete and won't go through, she said I can save a step by downloading them off the internet. She said they did the same thing to her son. I can see this is going to be fun and take a while.

What am I supposed to put down for an employer when I'm not working right now? Not retired, not collecting,  just not working or between jobs. I haven't bothered looking while I've been dealing with all that I've been dealing with here.

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I wouldn't laminate the papers.  I'd put them in those plastic page protectors you can get at a office supply store.

You do need to use the most current forms and the best place to get them is NJSP.org.

If you're not working put down unemployed on the application.  Employment is not a requirement to purchase or own firearms.  Plus it's the truth.

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I am not too worried about 'carrying them around in the car', I don't really intend to do much of that either way.
I will apply for the card, but I guess its a matter of finding out which day they take applications and then waiting for it all to go through. There's no reason they would reject it, I have never been arrested, not so much as a speeding ticket.
My main concern is if they somehow found out I've got all these in my home.

I asked the original question because I really don't have any way to show where these came from because most of these spent a generation and a half buried in the attic. Those that belonged to my uncle were left to me by word of mouth, he had a will, it left everything to my dad, who died first, so they became mine. There is no other family involved. I knew some of these were here but I didn't realize how many in all. I knew my uncle kept his shotguns here, that started when he got divorced in the 60's. I knew my dad had a few of my grandfathers guns and one or two of his other brother's guns here but I never looked or dug through the boxes. Since dad wasn't really a gun guy, they just sat. Back in the day, from time to time my uncle would go upstairs and leave with a few shotguns, go hunting, drop off whatever he shot, and put the shotguns away again and go home. He never took his guns back home. Over the years he just made the remarks several times that when he's done with them, his guns were mine. I have no clue where he bought them, knowing him, they were likely used when he bought most of them. The coolest is finding the .22 that my grandfather had as a kid, and finding pics of him holding it with his catch in the other hand when he was a kid. I don't have many pictures of my grandfather, so finding something like that is pretty cool.

My main concern is whether or not I'd have to prove where I got them some day, other than a pic of the one gun in my grandfather's hand, there's no proof in any way where they came from after a buddy started going nuts when he saw me sorting through a trunk full of rifles here one day. He went on about how you have to be able to prove where you got them to own them in NJ, which didn't make a lot of sense to me because I've read other posts here about people moving from other states with their guns, and having lived in other states, I know many states don't even track or regulate long guns, and most older rifles and shotguns don't even have serial numbers before somewhere in the 60's. With most of all that answered, I thank those here for all the info and advice.

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8 hours ago, flatfish said:

My main concern is whether or not I'd have to prove where I got them some day, other than a pic of the one gun in my grandfather's hand, there's no proof in any way where they came from after a buddy started going nuts when he saw me sorting through a trunk full of rifles here one day. He went on about how you have to be able to prove where you got them to own them in NJ, which didn't make a lot of sense to me because I've read other posts here about people moving from other states with their guns, and having lived in other states, I know many states don't even track or regulate long guns, and most older rifles and shotguns don't even have serial numbers before somewhere in the 60's. With most of all that answered, I thank those here for all the info and advice.

I am going to preface what I tell you that I am not a lawyer - so my advice is worth what you paid for it........

 

I wouldn't worry about anyone asking you to prove how you acquired them. It would be the obligation of law enforcement to prove you acquired them illegally. NJ does not register long guns, so they would have no way of knowing what long guns you own. There is no such thing as a crime of "possession of an unregistered firearm" in NJ (many people confuse NJ with NY where possession of an unregistered handgun is a felony). If you acquired these guns in another state the acquisition occurred there and would be subject to the gun transfer laws of that state, not NJ. It is my understanding that the statute of limitations on an illegal transfer of a firearm in NJ is 5 years, so anything acquired in NJ before that time frame is water over the dam.

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On 9/23/2018 at 0:28 AM, flatfish said:

First off, if I have a gun in my car, its likely heading to either a gun shop or place to shoot it.
Second, it would obviously be locked in the trunk unloaded.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found this online, and the way i read this, its illegal in NJ to posses a firearm without an FID card?

2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons.
(https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-2c/section-2c-39-5)
2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons. a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

c.Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

d.Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

e.Firearms or other weapons in educational institutions.

.........................................................................................

It looks like the law itself contradicts itself in several places.

This is from the NJ SP site https://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

13:54-1.13 Firearms passing to heirs or legatees
(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of this subchapter c
oncerning the acquisition of a firearm, a permit to purchase a
handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card shall not be
required of an heir or legatee for the passing of a firearm,
upon the death of its owner. A person so acquiring ownership ma
y retain the firearm if he or she meets the requirements
of N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5 and 1.6.
(b) If an heir or legatee is not qualified to acquire a fir
earm, he or she may retain ownership of the firearm for the
purpose of sale for a period of 180 days, which period may be
extended by the chief of police or the Superintendent.
During such period the firearm must be placed in th
e custody of the chief of police or Superintendent.
(c) In the case of assault firearms or machine guns
disposition shall be in accordance with N.J.A.C. 13:54-5.
_____________________________________________________

Going by this, I do not need an FPID card?

It looks to me like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. Under the NJ code statutes, its illegal to posses any firearm without having an FID card, but according to the NJ SP, its not needed if you inherited the firearms????

A stop at the local PD today to pickup forms got me nothing, I was told that if I wasn't buying anything, I don't need to apply for a card, I finally was told that if I must, I can download the forms online. Another officer handed me three pages of forms that according to the website are outdated and no longer valid according to the NJ SP site.

Do I fill out the outdated, (2002 version) of the form I was handed or do I use the form online from 2009?

Do I fill out both versions and let them decide when I go back?

When I asked the officer at the desk who do I bring them back to and he didn't know, he said he doesn't handle that. No one there had an answer???

https://www.njsp.org/firearms/pdf/sts-033.pdf

Or do I simply not need to go through all this hassle?

 

You are referencing two sites with problems. First he law site has shitty formatting (which after checking inherits it form the online statute). Second the NJSP site has shitty formatting and is deferential to NJAC, not statute. The court could give a shit about NJAC they are bound by statute. 

The most reliable reference is here: 

https://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=Publish:10.1048/Enu

They have deliberately made it harder and harder to find stuff in it over the years. It has actually gotten better for the first time ina long time, so people should use it more. 

To format it properly in line with the notion for the bits surrounding it

c.Rifles and shotguns.

(1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

This is not the statute declaring what possesion is unlawful, it is the statute stating punishment. How do I know? 

Up the page it says this:

 

 b.   Handguns.  (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the second degree. (2) If the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person it is a crime of the third degree.

N.J.S.2C-58-4 is the statute covering concealed carry permits. Almost nobody has one. Everyone in possession of a handgun without one anywhere would be a felon. 

In other sections, there are exempted locations and conditions. If you are found in possession of handgun outside those without a CCW, you are screwed. If you are found outside those exemptions with a shotgun without a FPID you are screwed. This is likely because people use long guns to hunt, and not all hunting requires a license, they didn't dare ban traveling about to do that so the bar is set lower. In the previous exemptions for travel, the firearm being unloaded is a requirement to the exemption from blanket presumptive illegality of firearms possession. It;s statute 23:4-24.1a. The notion fo transport not by motor vehicle seems to be alien to them. So if you lived a block from the range, no idea what you are getting into walking  there with your gun ina locked case. 

That's the other reason it is weird. In most cases laws are written where the presumption everything is legal until a law is written otherwise. When you start with a presumption of illegality, if you don't want one blanket punishment for everything, you then have to go and spell out the myriad punishments for the variable infractions. 

Transfers not conducted in the state are not a concern of NJ statute on transfer. That's the concern of the other state or federal law. If it was lawful there, you are the owner. You are not a purchaser in NJ. You don't NEED an FPID to purchase. 

However, that means you get none of the FPID benefits or perils. Which means you have to exist in the carved out exemptions.

Possession in the home, transfer to or from a range, etc.  

There are many, many new jersians who own inherited firearms without FPID.It's fine. It's legal. It's not new. IT is only a problem for those things where possession is outright banned. "Assault Weapons", machine guns, etc. 

If you want to take them places and use them, an FPID is a good thing to have. This is where officer ignorance can come into play to mess your life up.  If you get it, you STILL don't have to tell anyone neither jack nor shit about where your already legally owned guns come from. 

If the polive want to mess with you, they will. They don't need statute on their side. Statute is for the courts. They just need to gin up a half assed attempt at preserving qualified immunity. IMO voluntary registering guns lowers that bar because you have provided them a list of firearms that had a non-standard method of transfer that might need lokin into (tm). 

 

 

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How many forms should I have to fill out for the FPID card?
I was given two the first time, both of which I was later told are the wrong version, so I downloaded two more and filled those out. Today I took those to the PD and was told I'm missing a third 'Municipal Form'.
I've filled out an STS033, application, an SP 66 mental health form, and now I need a third?

Is this it? https://www.njsp.org/firearms/pdf/sp-224.pdf

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1 hour ago, flatfish said:

How many forms should I have to fill out for the FPID card?
I was given two the first time, both of which I was later told are the wrong version, so I downloaded two more and filled those out. Today I took those to the PD and was told I'm missing a third 'Municipal Form'.
I've filled out an STS033, application, an SP 66 mental health form, and now I need a third?

Is this it? https://www.njsp.org/firearms/pdf/sp-224.pdf

The only other "legal" form would be the SP-212' which is the non-criminal background check. That has been totally supplanted by the on-line version. If they are giving you something they are calling a "municipal" form, it is illegal. Contact the ANJRPC.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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Your town probably has an illegal form. Your choice to fill it out.

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk

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It says SP224, it looks to me like a form that the pd should use internally?

I don't know why a form would ask whay the name of the pd is where I'm applying

 

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