remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 Just now, capt14k said: Not saying it is right just stating what they did. It is even worse for the government to infringe on law abiding citizens 2nd Amendment Rights by forcing them to go to FFL. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 100% agree with you.. I wonder if anyone tried to challenge that CA max fee law. I would think it would in the end be found unconstitutional but i might be wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 11, 2018 When I did my interview with the ATF, the agent didn’t know about the upcoming law change. Mentioned it to her, and she was kind of shocked that NJ allowed that exception (03 to 03).Still had to sign a form that states I am aware that NJ does not allow firearms to be sent directly to my home (in regards to stuff being acquired). I am interested how new interviews go... and if they have any differences in how the FFL-03 can be used. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Screwball said: When I did my interview with the ATF, the agent didn’t know about the upcoming law change. Mentioned it to her, and she was kind of shocked that NJ allowed that exception (03 to 03). Still had to sign a form that states I am aware that NJ does not allow firearms to be sent directly to my home (in regards to stuff being acquired). I am interested how new interviews go... and if they have any differences in how the FFL-03 can be used. I see... I would think at this point ship to your home would be acceptable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 11, 2018 I see... I would think at this point ship to your home would be acceptable.I might email the CMP and see about it... kind of want another Garand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 11, 2018 I see... I would think at this point ship to your home would be acceptable. Did something change when I was in there and that guy was there? Like NJSP Firearms or the NJ AG realizing they have to follow the law as written and signed? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 Just now, Screwball said: I might email the CMP and see about it... kind of want another Garand. If you still needed to goto a regular dealer and pay a transfer then the FFL03 would be useless as its strictly used to save the nics fee or am i reading this wrong 1 minute ago, capt14k said: Did something change when I was in there and that guy was there? Like NJSP Firearms or the NJ AG realizing they have to follow the law as written and signed? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk i think my guy only addressed the issue of you not selling or using the FFL03 to sell. i dont remember the conversation about you aquiring Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 11, 2018 If you still needed to goto a regular dealer and pay a transfer then the FFL03 would be useless as its strictly used to save the nics fee or am i reading this wrong That is what he said that day. Which is BS. It would only save on NICS in NJ. Can still go to PA or any other free state and get any C&R you wanted and bring back. Double check with him. Curious. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 1 minute ago, capt14k said: That is what he said that day. Which is BS. It would only save on NICS in NJ. Can still go to PA or any other free state and get any C&R you wanted and bring back. Double check with him. Curious. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk i can email him and ask Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 11, 2018 i can email him and ask Ok. On the phone he addressed selling which I knew. In person he addressed receiving to which I asked if I buy Poconos house can I have sent there if I have FFL03 in PA and he replied why not.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 11, 2018 I wouldn’t buy anything like that (Garand... not something on my regular list... just s***s and giggle purchases) if I can’t get it shipped to me or pickup myself (PA... didn’t go to the past Oaks show, but likely the one near Christmas if I’m still around)... I’ll just wait until I move/change address on my FFL-03, then have stuff sent directly.I can’t wait until I can have a C&R eligible AR sent straight to my house. Don’t think I’m getting a M1 Carbine, as I’m siding with a Fulton Armory reproduction (new receiver... likely the regular stock and a M1A1 stock for kicks). In regards to this topic, I am very interested in how it pans out with the current law. For the few people stuck here, maybe they can make something good come out of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuckinNJ 81 Posted October 11, 2018 Wait, I’m a bit lost on something.. why’s there all this talk about FFL03 if NJ doesn’t recognize C&R? At least that’s what I thought when I looked into getting one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,137 Posted October 11, 2018 56 minutes ago, remixer said: If i'm not mistaken a few years back when this FTF thing came up it was written as the dealer was unable to add any transfer fee's. The response was no one will do those transfers then... The actual new law did not include that.. they must have figured out the government cant tell a private company what they can charge for their services.. Just as i can tell my landscaper ill cover his gas for cutting my lawn. Ok fair enough, time is money and thus a fee. But what about the logging the gun into the books part, why? Is it required by law? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 Ok fair enough, time is money and thus a fee. But what about the logging the gun into the books part, why? Is it required by law? It’s how it’s done Even part of the fed rules according to the guidelines Only difference was at what point to enter into the book unless I missed something. Still need 4473 filled out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted October 11, 2018 this is the problem, it's not a transfer that an ffl is facilitating. the rule is to run nics for private parties. Failing to see how this becomes a transfer with a 3rd party involvement Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 this is the problem, it's not a transfer that an ffl is facilitating. the rule is to run nics for private parties. Failing to see how this becomes a transfer with a 3rd party involvementYou can call it what you want, work on dealers end almost the same Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,137 Posted October 11, 2018 17 minutes ago, remixer said: It’s how it’s done Even part of the fed rules according to the guidelines Only difference was at what point to enter into the book unless I missed something. Still need 4473 filled out So is it that a nics check triggers a mandated log in? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 11, 2018 this is the problem, it's not a transfer that an ffl is facilitating. the rule is to run nics for private parties. Failing to see how this becomes a transfer with a 3rd party involvementI don't know if they can Federally run NICS without a transfer. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 So is it that a nics check triggers a mandated log in?It requires a 4473 which is kept by the dealer foreverNot sure log outside of Nj utill nics approved I don't know if they can Federally run NICS without a transfer. Sent from my XT1585 using TapatalkCan’t run without 4473 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted October 11, 2018 well that's some bullshit because the message is quite different. Not your fault Steve, you are Aces in my book. Like I said earlier, I see people that have known each other, family etc not even doing this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 11, 2018 well that's some bullshit because the message is quite different. Not your fault Steve, you are Aces in my book. Like I said earlier, I see people that have known each other, family etc not even doing this. It does suck but think of this scenario. Buyer and seller go to FFL. Seller wants his money, buyer gives it to him, and pays dealer for NICS and transfer. This is how it would be done it in PA. PICS is instant so if denied money can be given back to buyer and seller wasted his time. Dealer is not returning money. Now being NJ NICS is not instant. Seller leaves firearm with dealer. He is paid and done. Dealer must check into his book since he may have it for 3 days. Buyer comes back and gets it if approved, but if denied his only realistic option is to ask dealer to sell on consignment. Since it is checked in dealers book not a problem. Now if buyer is really nice and offers a refund to buyer dealer would have to again run NICS on seller and transfer back to him. Most dealers would do for just the cost of NICS and seller can deduct this from buyers refund. I agree Most people will follow the old rules with people they know. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 It does suck but think of this scenario. Buyer and seller go to FFL. Seller wants his money, buyer gives it to him, and pays dealer for NICS and transfer. This is how it would be done it in PA. PICS is instant so if denied money can be given back to buyer and seller wasted his time. Dealer is not returning money. Now being NJ NICS is not instant. Seller leaves firearm with dealer. He is paid and done. Dealer must check into his book since he may have it for 3 days. Buyer comes back and gets it if approved, but if denied his only realistic option is to ask dealer to sell on consignment. Since it is checked in dealers book not a problem. Now if buyer is really nice and offers a refund to buyer dealer would have to again run NICS on seller and transfer back to him. Most dealers would do for just the cost of NICS and seller can deduct this from buyers refund. I agree Most people will follow the old rules with people they know. Sent from my iPad using TapatalkJust spoke to Atf. My original statement was correct.Buyer/seller arriveGun gets checked In to book4473 then nicsBuyer approved leaves with gun well that's some bullshit because the message is quite different. Not your fault Steve, you are Aces in my book. Like I said earlier, I see people that have known each other, family etc not even doing this. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted October 11, 2018 such bs I think the fee is going to be buyer and seller or buyer or seller. I personally am not buying anything where I have to pay that transfer fee unless it's new. People will have to adjust their pricing accordingly imho. seeing lots of chatter on this topic NJ is funny, people add what they paid for the nics etc into their price. We will see a lot of firearms sit unless pricing reflects it accordingly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted October 11, 2018 Reread the document from ATF. IMHO, if there is a delay or deny, the seller should retain possession, not the dealer. The dealer retains the 4473 and collects the $15 (and fee if they want). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 Reread the document from ATF. IMHO, if there is a delay or deny, the seller should retain possession, not the dealer. The dealer retains the 4473 and collects the $15 (and fee if they want). Atf document mentions Nj nics fees? I called the Atf agent local and he confirmed it. Might be Nj added some rules no clue . Tried to call them and no detectives were in Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 Just curiousWill a seller drive to meet at a dealer and leave with out being paid if a delay or would the seller pay for a gun that the seller is leaving with? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted October 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, remixer said: Just curious Will a seller drive to meet at a dealer and leave with out being paid if a delay or would the seller pay for a gun that the seller is leaving with? Not a dealers problem. Run the NICS, get your money. The money for the sale is between the seller and buyer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 11, 2018 Not a dealers problem. Run the NICS, get your money. The money for the sale is between the seller and buyer.Yes i know that. Just seems like an archaic method lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted October 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, remixer said: Yes i know that. Just seems like an archaic method lol If I was the seller on a delay, I'd get the money for the firearm, if the buyer is willing to pay (not knowing if a denial will come, then he is out the money), and leave it with the dealer. DONE. Seeya. If I was the buyer and got delayed, I wouldn't pay for the firearm because I might be denied. I would wait for the NICS result. If I was the dealer, I'd collect the NICS and Transfer Fee up front, then let the two figure it out. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mossburger 406 Posted October 11, 2018 Can an 03-FFL Holder who lives in NJ, purchase C&R long guns from an FFL in another state without NICS? (yes? Right) Can said 03 holder purchase a C&R handgun in PA? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 11, 2018 Can an 03-FFL Holder who lives in NJ, purchase C&R long guns from an FFL in another state without NICS? (yes? Right) Can said 03 holder purchase a C&R handgun in PA? Yes/no... Federally, it is handled as any other FFL transfer. Signed out of the seller’s book, signed into the FFL-03’s book. However, it is the selling FFL’s decision on handling as such or requiring a NICS/declining the sale. If they say no, it is not like I could wave my license (well, copy of license), and force them to do it. Yes... but again, seller’s discretion. But you can buy from a non-licensee, as well. Just need to put DL number in the book. If a FFL-03 sells a handgun outside of state, must go to an FFL, and not to a non-licensee. In regards to coming back to NJ, make sure the gun/magazines are legal, and follow the transportation laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites