capt14k 2,052 Posted October 12, 2018 Yes/no... Federally, it is handled as any other FFL transfer. Signed out of the seller’s book, signed into the FFL-03’s book. However, it is the selling FFL’s decision on handling as such or requiring a NICS/declining the sale. If they say no, it is not like I could wave my license (well, copy of license), and force them to do it. Yes... but again, seller’s discretion. But you can buy from a non-licensee, as well. Just need to put DL number in the book. If a FFL-03 sells a handgun outside of state, must go to an FFL, and not to a non-licensee. In regards to coming back to NJ, make sure the gun/magazines are legal, and follow the transportation laws.However FFL03 can sell c&r handgun to another FFL03 out of state correct?Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 12, 2018 However FFL03 can sell c&r handgun to another FFL03 out of state correct?Sent from my iPad using TapatalkYep... tried to make it clear by just saying to a FFL, and not a non-licensee.In less restrictive states, a FFL-03 can sell a handgun to a non-licensee within the same state they reside in. You have to give some ATF flyer about kids and handguns (can order from them), and if they buy multiple handguns within a week, send in a report.But as a collector, buying/selling a lot is kind of questionable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,137 Posted October 12, 2018 17 hours ago, remixer said: Just spoke to Atf. My original statement was correct. Buyer/seller arrive Gun gets checked In to book 4473 then nics Buyer approved leaves with gun Thanks Thanx for helping to explain this mess. Bonus points to NJ for dbl dicking us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 12, 2018 Yep... tried to make it clear by just saying to a FFL, and not a non-licensee.In less restrictive states, a FFL-03 can sell a handgun to a non-licensee within the same state they reside in. You have to give some ATF flyer about kids and handguns (can order from them), and if they buy multiple handguns within a week, send in a report.But as a collector, buying/selling a lot is kind of questionable.Where does it state you can't buy from a non licensee in another state? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, siderman said: Thanx for helping to explain this mess. Bonus points to NJ for dbl dicking us. I will try and reach out again to the NJSP to see if they have any specific rules.. I know there is a new COE form which asks for Nics number 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 12, 2018 Where does it state you can't buy from a non licensee in another state? Sent from my XT1585 using TapatalkNever said it did... a FFL-03 cannot sell to a non-licensee from another state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 12, 2018 Never said it did... a FFL-03 cannot sell to a non-licensee from another state.My bad. I misread. That I knew. Basically FFL03 can buy from anyone and sell to any other FFL license. FFL03 is however restricted from shipping handguns via USPS. The other two there are certain rules to follow as well.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 12, 2018 Just now, capt14k said: My bad. I misread. That I knew. Basically FFL03 can buy from anyone and sell to any other FFL license. FFL03 is however restricted from shipping handguns via USPS. The other two there are certain rules to follow as well. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Capt is this the same convo you had in my shop with the guy.... WHen he said you cannot sell to anyone as an 03? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 12, 2018 FFL03 is however restricted from shipping handguns via USPS. The other two there are certain rules to follow as well.Sent from my XT1585 using TapatalkThe USPS regulations specifically state FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer... nothing about collectors.Most people view it as a no go for shipping handguns, which I agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 12, 2018 Capt is this the same convo you had in my shop with the guy.... WHen he said you cannot sell to anyone as an 03? You can not sell as a business for profit. You can sell to improve your collection or disposition of your collection.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 12, 2018 Just now, capt14k said: You can not sell as a business for profit. You can sell to improve your collection or disposition of your collection. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk To private people or other dealers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 12, 2018 The USPS regulations specifically state FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer... nothing about collectors. Most people view it as a no go for shipping handguns, which I agree.Correct. FedEx also has restrictions as well. They may not enforce them until it is time to file an insurance claim. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk To private people or other dealers.Only other licensees. Basically anyone with any type of FFL. No sales to unlicensed individuals. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 12, 2018 Just now, capt14k said: Correct. FedEx also has restrictions as well. They may not enforce them until it is time to file an insurance claim. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Speaking of Fedex i sent you an email Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 12, 2018 Speaking of Fedex i sent you an email I got it thank you.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 12, 2018 On the ATF C&R page... Specifically about sending a firearm for ATF examination... but wouldn’t say it if you could otherwise. In case anyone is looking at this in the future with questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 12, 2018 On the ATF C&R page... Specifically about sending a firearm for ATF examination... but wouldn’t say it if you could otherwise. In case anyone is looking at this in the future with questions. That is purely for examination like you stated. For determining eligibility. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 12, 2018 Still gives the point that handguns can’t go USPS with C&R... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 12, 2018 Still gives the point that handguns can’t go USPS with C&R...Correct ATF does state this somewhere else on site.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuckinNJ 81 Posted October 12, 2018 Ok I’m in the early states of facilitating a handgun sale (selling my VP9 Tactical) to another NJer. Once he gets his permits, we’ll prob determine an FFL to meet at and see how it goes. I guess I’ll update as it goes along. Although I told him that if I get other offers in the meantime from someone already with a permit, I’ll have to pursue that. So much can happen while we wait all those weeks for a PTP. Super frustrating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 12, 2018 For stuff like that, I never would tie someone up like that. Back when I got my S&W 1006, I purchased it from the seller, and it sat at SS until the permits came back.I also had one of the moderators on BerettaForum, who I consider a friend, that I purchased two handguns from (Beretta PX4 and SIG P228). He lives outside of Orlando. I paid, and he held the pistols until the permits came back.Is that a normal situation? No (someone I actually trust), but kind of a hard situation to deal with if you are waiting on permits. Usually better to not look until you waited a month after submitting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuckinNJ 81 Posted October 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Screwball said: For stuff like that, I never would tie someone up like that. Back when I got my S&W 1006, I purchased it from the seller, and it sat at SS until the permits came back. I also had one of the moderators on BerettaForum, who I consider a friend, that I purchased two handguns from (Beretta PX4 and SIG P228). He lives outside of Orlando. I paid, and he held the pistols until the permits came back. Is that a normal situation? No (someone I actually trust), but kind of a hard situation to deal with if you are waiting on permits. Usually better to not look until you waited a month after submitting. Well the buyer was upfront immediately about submitting his app for PTPs that day. I didn’t exactly seek him out. I mentioned to my FFL that I was thinking of selling my VP9 Tactical and that day he referred me to this guy who was in the market for one. Just good timing. But he understands that if I have a buyer with a permit sooner, I’ll sell to that person. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted October 12, 2018 Well the buyer was upfront immediately about submitting his app for PTPs that day. I didn’t exactly seek him out. I mentioned to my FFL that I was thinking of selling my VP9 Tactical and that day he referred me to this guy who was in the market for one. Just good timing. But he understands that if I have a buyer with a permit sooner, I’ll sell to that person.What’s between you and him is just that... between you and him.Just my own position on the subject, if I was a potential buyer. Wouldn’t want him or you to feel like you are doing something wrong... it’s just how NJ set the laws up.Either way, I just got the call that I’m going to FLETC end of November. Couldn’t even go for a pistol permit if I tried. [emoji41] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9X19 125 Posted October 13, 2018 On 10/9/2018 at 11:57 AM, Sniper22 said: From the SP site right now: https://www.njportal.com/NJSP/NicsVerification This is normal after a holiday. NJ NICS was closed the day before on Columbus Day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9X19 125 Posted October 13, 2018 On 10/10/2018 at 2:12 PM, stuckinNJ said: So if the gun in a FTF isn’t going into the books of the dealer, doesn’t that mean that they’re simply running a NICS? Meaning they should only be charging the $15 for it, and not a transfer fee since it’s not a transfer? Edit: it seems based on that guidance posted by @PK90 that it does, in fact, enter the FFLs books, so I assume it’s considered an actual transfer. Damn. Yes you are correct, It is a transfer since they have facilitate the filling out of the 4473 and run a NICS check. I would assume that most FFLS will also take it into their bound book since the ATF likes to match up 4473’s to the dealer’s bound book when they do an inspection. I cant imagine them just filling out a COE? Not to mention that NICS may not respond in a timely manner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickySantoro 211 Posted October 13, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 8:00 AM, remixer said: I will try and reach out again to the NJSP to see if they have any specific rules.. I know there is a new COE form which asks for Nics number Good luck finding one who isn't a brain dead flunky. On 10/12/2018 at 8:00 AM, remixer said: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted October 13, 2018 We have a friendly NJSP 2A guy in Trenton. Remixer knows whom I refer. [emoji6]Give him a yell bro.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/13/2018 at 5:06 PM, bhunted said: We have a friendly NJSP 2A guy in Trenton. Remixer knows whom I refer. Give him a yell bro. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Thats exactly who i was reaching out to. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oakridgefirearms 224 Posted October 21, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 8:12 AM, Screwball said: The USPS regulations specifically state FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer... nothing about collectors. Most people view it as a no go for shipping handguns, which I agree. Yes, this is the form we use to mail handguns, it specifically says must be a "manufacturer or bona fide dealer". https://about.usps.com/forms/ps1508.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revenger 473 Posted October 21, 2018 It is amazing how many gun owners are still not aware of this law. a fudd at work was recently talking about a rifle purchase and I told him about the law, He had no idea. I think dealers should assist in informing gun owners about important changes though they might have financial motives for not doing so. Eventually some law will be passed due to an uninformed clientele and will hurt them financially and by that time permanently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted October 21, 2018 It is amazing how many gun owners are still not aware of this law. a fudd at work was recently talking about a rifle purchase and I told him about the law, He had no idea. I think dealers should assist in informing gun owners about important changes though they might have financial motives for not doing so. Eventually some law will be passed due to an uninformed clientele and will hurt them financially and by that time permanently. Why would a dealer not want to inform customers of these laws? These laws were basically written to help dealers. Wonder why that is?Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites