remixer 1,645 Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, stuckinNJ said: then paid me once he got his pink copy of the completed P2P. You should have been paid at the point when the gun was given to the dealer... just saying for others reading this as thats the point the firearm is no longer yours. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAL. .30 M1 2,101 Posted November 9, 2018 Not to derail this....but can FID card data be obtianed via freedom of information? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, stuckinNJ said: I just wanted to be as courteous as possible. This is a new process so it's not really clear what the etiquette is... My opinion would be the store would in most cases prefer less bodies in the store who are just waiting... multiple reasons for this. 2 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said: Not to derail this....but can FID card data be obtianed via freedom of information? not sure... may i ask why this question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAL. .30 M1 2,101 Posted November 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, remixer said: not sure... may i ask why this question? Sure....multiple reasons mainly....we do a poor job as activists....or state orgs do a bad job to educate ... Whatever your angle those in here get it and are kinda plugged in. How many run of the mill gun owners dont know jack shit about the curremt laws...recently enacted laws and the reaming we are going to get... Saw a guy by 5 ar lowers for builds last sat...he knew nothing abput the mags laws..nothing about any of em.... i asked him what is he going to do when they are all but banned next year....you know zero feature rifles....or outright ban... he had the dumbest look on his face... The point is, if we can find a way to gain every fid holders info in state, we can start a campaign to educate them and hopefully activate them.....by reaching out to them Relying on people to educate themselves is like putting tetas on a bull NJ is lost.... gone kaput. Move and not only because of the 2A Menedez got reelected....let that sink in. I read and interesting story about the potential split of the US into red and blue... i hope to be in the red zone if and i pray when it happens... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted November 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said: Sure....multiple reasons mainly....we do a poor job as activists....or state orgs do a bad job to educate ... Whatever your angle those in here get it and are kinda plugged in. How many runnof the mill gun owners dont know jack shot anoit the curremt laws...recently enacted laws and the reaming we are going to get... Shockingly Plenty... Saw a guy by 5 ar lowers for builds last sat...he knew nothing abput the mags laws..nothing about any of em.... i asked him what is he gping to do when they are all but banned next year....you know zero feature rifles....or outright ban... he had the dumbest look on his face... The point is, if we can find a way to gain every fid holders info in state, we can start a campaign to educate them and hopefully activate them..... We'll i salute you thinking outside the box BUT people who cant seem to get out and vote to NOT raise taxes wont get out to vote for their guns... They are sadly not engaged and honestly are not interested until AFTER they get fucked. Then they will spend 2 years bitching about that one issue then again on election day will stay home. Relying on people to educate themselves is like putting tetas on a bull You can lead a horse to water... NJ is lost.... gone kaput. Move and not only because of the 2A I'm an optimist. Liberal ideas die a slow death... It just takes them to sink in a bit and then moderates hopefully wake up. There will be a point where people will realize they are shooting themselves in the foot. I hope.. Menedez got reelected....let that sink in. I read and interesting story about the potential split of the US into red and blue... i hope to be in the red zone if and i pray when it happens... Added my replies within the body... Contacting people does not work when they are not engaged... The way to do it would be at the gun stores when they are engaged and buying something that might become illegal in a few months and cost them money. I certainly do my part.... Politics is a major show in my place... just read my reviews LOL People enjoy it... We engage them.. They engage us.. Lots drive well past other stores for that exact reason... I hope that within the banter and political discussion in the shop they actually take something home with them besides the gun. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted November 9, 2018 Added my replies within the body... Contacting people does not work when they are not engaged... The way to do it would be at the gun stores when they are engaged and buying something that might become illegal in a few months and cost them money. I certainly do my part.... Politics is a major show in my place... just read my reviews LOL People enjoy it... We engage them.. They engage us.. Lots drive well past other stores for that exact reason... I hope that within the banter and political discussion in the shop they actually take something home with them besides the gun. This is true. Being I am the C&R and Political advisor I can assure everyone Monmouth Arms is a Conservative shop. Unlike some other local stores. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted November 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, capt14k said: This is true. Being I am the C&R and Political advisor I can assure everyone Monmouth Arms is a Conservative shop. Unlike some other local stores. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk you are NOT the political advisor LOL.. But yes we hold our side up high . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted November 9, 2018 you are NOT the political advisor LOL.. But yes we hold our side up high . Yeah yeah I know not supposed to make it public on here lol.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted November 9, 2018 Just now, capt14k said: Yeah yeah I know not supposed to make it public on here lol. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted December 25, 2018 On 11/9/2018 at 6:16 AM, remixer said: You should have been paid at the point when the gun was given to the dealer... just saying for others reading this as thats the point the firearm is no longer yours. What happens if there is a NICS denial? The "buyer" is going to want his money back. The dealer now has my gun and is going to want money for NICS. Worse, if I want my gun back, I have to have NICS run on me. Even worse still, if the dealer is a prick, he could keep the gun or give me 30 cents on the dollar. Not saying I wouldn't make sure the entire world would know, but at that point, technically, I'm signing over a firearm to the dealer for free. At least with pistol permits in the past there was no chance of a NICS denial. This has not happened to me, but I do have some rifles I'm trying to sell and it is possible. I will try to deal with FFLs that I know personally but once its in their books, it has to get logged out somehow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dajonga 396 Posted December 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Malsua said: At least with pistol permits in the past there was no chance of a NICS denial. Not true. I worked at a NJ FFL. My boss had a customer come in with at P2P and was denied NICS. My boss said that NICS is a deeper check than P2P. Customer was not pleased. Which begs the question.... What the hell good is a P2P? Was P2P designed to CYA for a FTF sale? IDK, is that too many acronyms? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobA 1,235 Posted December 25, 2018 When one walks out of an FFL store, what do they have in their hands? The gun, register receipt and a COE. Anything else? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted December 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, dajonga said: Not true. I worked at a NJ FFL. My boss had a customer come in with at P2P and was denied NICS. My boss said that NICS is a deeper check than P2P. Customer was not pleased. Which begs the question.... What the hell good is a P2P? Was P2P designed to CYA for a FTF sale? IDK, is that too many acronyms? I meant that there is no NICS on a ftf. If someone is denied at a store on a pistol permit, there isn't a third party who is out of payment on a gun that is now logged(and owned) by the store. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted December 25, 2018 it starts with FFLs and gun clubs, we need to mobilize and make sure everyone is on the same page Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted December 25, 2018 51 minutes ago, dajonga said: Was P2P designed to CYA for a FTF sale? To ensure private sale of handguns were tracked and registered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cemeterys Gun Blob 165 Posted December 25, 2018 On 10/9/2018 at 10:01 AM, Old School said: Follow the money.... Why does NJ use a third party to source a NICS background check. Who owns the company and who makes money? Now the amount of NICS checks will increase dramatically. The 'third party', as I was explained, is the State Police. Years ago, it was explained on these forums that FFLs call NJSP, who run the background check in NJ, then they contact NICS, and then get back to the FFL. Not sure if it's still this way. In America, the FFL contacts NICS directly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted December 25, 2018 On 11/9/2018 at 6:35 AM, USRifle30Cal said: Sure....multiple reasons mainly....we do a poor job as activists....or state orgs do a bad job to educate ... Whatever your angle those in here get it and are kinda plugged in. How many run of the mill gun owners dont know jack shit about the curremt laws...recently enacted laws and the reaming we are going to get... Saw a guy by 5 ar lowers for builds last sat...he knew nothing abput the mags laws..nothing about any of em.... i asked him what is he going to do when they are all but banned next year....you know zero feature rifles....or outright ban... he had the dumbest look on his face... The point is, if we can find a way to gain every fid holders info in state, we can start a campaign to educate them and hopefully activate them.....by reaching out to them Relying on people to educate themselves is like putting tetas on a bull NJ is lost.... gone kaput. Move and not only because of the 2A Menedez got reelected....let that sink in. I read and interesting story about the potential split of the US into red and blue... i hope to be in the red zone if and i pray when it happens... Fire arms owners information is legislatively protected in NJ it's a personal privacy exemption.. So no, you can not OPRA request it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobA 1,235 Posted December 25, 2018 I don’t want to rant as I did in the magazine thread when I said destroy them instead of turn them in so Murphy can’t track how good his plan is. But it perplexes me why there are COEs out there dated past 9/15/17. I get wanting to be a good citizen. But after all..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted December 25, 2018 nics rarely works as efficiently as it's supposed to. It's a joke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted December 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, BobA said: I don’t want to rant as I did in the magazine thread when I said destroy them instead of turn them in so Murphy can’t track how good his plan is. But it perplexes me why there are COEs out there dated past 9/15/17. I get wanting to be a good citizen. But after all..... Well, do you always know who you are buying a gun from or selling to? Would you risk going to jail over a few bucks? If your talking friends... Maybe that's different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrdBreeder 0 Posted December 25, 2018 1 hour ago, myhatinthering said: it starts with FFLs and gun clubs, we need to mobilize and make sure everyone is on the same page Merry Christmas. My list for Santa. 1) Please, find me Gun Loving people in NJ districts 1,2,3,14,17,27,16,15,11,4,18.22.19 who are leaders, willing to fight for, we the people. If you live in one of these districts get involved, we need viable candidates to take back our state. If you are brave strong and articulate and live in a NJ blue district we need you to take leadership, run for your NJ ASSEMBLY SEAT. This is all I want for Christmas, leaders to provide truth, justice and the American way as defined by our Constitution. 2) Merry Christmas to All. 3) Have all FFLs and gun clubs put these petitions on their counters and encourage the best to get on the stage https://nj.gov/state/elections/candidate-petitions.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted December 25, 2018 getting a list of FFls in the state is easy, we need the gun groups to hammer these guys to hammer all their customers to vote and get their friends to vote. If this is done, we win, we have the numbers! Jesus people, stop bitching and do something. reach out to our nj gun groups and help them do this.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted December 25, 2018 9 hours ago, Malsua said: What happens if there is a NICS denial? The "buyer" is going to want his money back. The dealer now has my gun and is going to want money for NICS. Worse, if I want my gun back, I have to have NICS run on me. Even worse still, if the dealer is a prick, he could keep the gun or give me 30 cents on the dollar. Not saying I wouldn't make sure the entire world would know, but at that point, technically, I'm signing over a firearm to the dealer for free. At least with pistol permits in the past there was no chance of a NICS denial. This has not happened to me, but I do have some rifles I'm trying to sell and it is possible. I will try to deal with FFLs that I know personally but once its in their books, it has to get logged out somehow. 1. It would depend if the sale was based on the buyer passing nics... 2. Pistols still need permits. 3. Getting a permit and and FID does not mean you will pass nics.. we have had people who just got FID and P2P and failed Nics. 4. Dealer cannot keep the gun and give you 30 cents on the dollar... its still your property and you can sell it to who you like. 5. The dealer will no doubt want to be paid for his services... regardless of who takes the gun back.... someones gonna cover the nics and tranfer anyways, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted December 25, 2018 4 hours ago, myhatinthering said: getting a list of FFls in the state is easy, we need the gun groups to hammer these guys to hammer all their customers to vote and get their friends to vote. If this is done, we win, we have the numbers! Jesus people, stop bitching and do something. reach out to our nj gun groups and help them do this.... You think FFL's telling people to vote helps? If thats the case then i helped plenty.... In the end its upto the customer to get off his ass and vote. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted December 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, remixer said: 1. It would depend if the sale was based on the buyer passing nics... 2. Pistols still need permits. 3. Getting a permit and and FID does not mean you will pass nics.. we have had people who just got FID and P2P and failed Nics. 4. Dealer cannot keep the gun and give you 30 cents on the dollar... its still your property and you can sell it to who you like. 5. The dealer will no doubt want to be paid for his services... regardless of who takes the gun back.... someones gonna cover the nics and tranfer Does the dealer have a document that he agrees to intake the gun for a transfer fee and transfer it to the second party? This is what I'm asking? If he's just writing it in the book he now owns it. I agree that ethical dealers would just run a new nics for me and write it back out. I'm out the fee and two nics. Unethical dealers would tell me to hit the bricks. Once I've signed it over, I'm relinquishing claims on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 25, 2018 I think you're over thinking this. LOL Buyer buys it from seller if he likes it and prior to NICS. Seller leaves with money. If NICS is denied, gun stays with dealer and he sells it as a consignment. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,322 Posted December 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, PK90 said: I think you're over thinking this. LOL Buyer buys it from seller if he likes it and prior to NICS. Seller leaves with money. If NICS is denied, gun stays with dealer and he sells it as a consignment. Good point Paul! Say NICS takes a few hours or longer. The seller would not want to nor be obligated to wait there with the buyer for NICS. Who's name is on the paperwork as the seller? The actual seller or the FFL? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted December 25, 2018 32 minutes ago, JohnnyB said: Good point Paul! Say NICS takes a few hours or longer. The seller would not want to nor be obligated to wait there with the buyer for NICS. Who's name is on the paperwork as the seller? The actual seller or the FFL? Dealer in my case. since we check it in prior to nics the seller and buyer do not get each other’s info 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjd832 146 Posted December 26, 2018 I have done transfers as both the buyer and seller at dealers in a number of states including NJ and it’s always been as remixer described..... the seller hands dealer the firearm, license, Fpid, other applicable docs, firearm is entered into their bound book, seller gets a paper/receipt whatever the proper term is, showing transfer from them to dealer..... if the money was paid they can leave or wait.....the buyer provides his docs to Ffl nics is performed, fees paid to dealer buyer gets paperwork showing transfer from ffl to them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted December 26, 2018 This is a good question and I don't think there is a right or wrong. Let's say I am selling a gun... is it my responsibility that you can pass a background check? I look at it this way... We meet at FFL and we decide... "Do I want to sell it to you and do you want to buy it?" If "Yes" I get the money, and the gun is handed over to the FFL. It is at that point between you and the FFL. FFL gives me a receipt that they took it my gun. If "No" we part ways. If you agree to buy it, pay me for it, and then have an issue getting NICS, or need to wait for OGAM (30 days), that is between you and the FFL as far as what they want to charge. Generally, I would also expect that the NICS + transfer fee would come out from the buyers pocket and the sales price would reflect it. If you cannot pass a NICS, up to you whether you want to fight it, sell it to the FFL or put it on consignment, or repost it. to sell. Once the FFL has possession of the gun, it is akin to a new purchase if the seller wants to buy it back and would be incurring fees... yet another transaction and assuming the FFL already filled their bound book. Being the biggest gun community, serious question, do we want to set the standard that in F2F, any nics + transfer is on the buyer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites