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Did the ban on private sales go into effect? What's the protocol now? What are gun shops charging? Does buyer or seller pay or is the fee split?

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6 hours ago, remixer said:

You think FFL's telling people to vote helps?  If thats the case then i helped plenty....  In the end its upto the customer to get off his ass and vote.

 

no doubt but it's a start and keeps everyone aligned.  The point is that it's Metcalf's Law.  We need everyone in the community preaching the message.  Many FFls are not pushing the vote, that is a sad reality

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8 minutes ago, myhatinthering said:

no doubt but it's a start and keeps everyone aligned.  The point is that it's Metcalf's Law.  We need everyone in the community preaching the message.  Many FFls are not pushing the vote, that is a sad reality

I think what we need to consider is this...

Are gun rights the number one priority for most people, even those that may be shopping for guns?

There are plenty of gun buyers who are just as likely to, if not more, vote for free college, sanctuary cities and legalized, er decriminalized weed. 

Furthermore... what percentage of gun owners who REALLY care about gun rights did not already go out and vote?

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3 minutes ago, Maksim said:

I think what we need to consider is this...

Are gun rights the number one priority for most people, even those that may be shopping for guns?

There are plenty of gun buyers who are just as likely to, if not more, vote for free college, sanctuary cities and legalized, er decriminalized weed. 

Furthermore... what percentage of gun owners who REALLY care about gun rights did not already go out and vote?

doesn't matter, it's about insuring people get out and vote period!  Look at every study done on gun ownership and you'll see, the more we get to vote who own guns, the better off we'll be as the majority leans moderate right to conservative.  Gun owners NEED to vote!

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4 minutes ago, myhatinthering said:

doesn't matter, it's about insuring people get out and vote period!  Look at every study done on gun ownership and you'll see, the more we get to vote who own guns, the better off we'll be as the majority leans moderate right to conservative.  Gun owners NEED to vote!

Oh believe me, you are preaching to the choir... I just believe many many many gun owners in NEW JERSEY.... do not value gun rights more than they do "free shit."  

I certainly believe we should make gun owners aware of the issue but somehow focus on those to whom guns would actually mean something...

So if anything, would say a typical USPSA, IDPA, 3 Gun, or AR shooters...

To many hunters, as we had seen before... a gun is just a tool.  We need to reach people who believe you should be able to do this.... in NJ.

 

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19 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Oh believe me, you are preaching to the choir... I just believe many many many gun owners in NEW JERSEY.... do not value gun rights more than they do "free shit."  

The dependent class has out bred the working class here.  Our school system is making sure the dependent class is kept properly stupid and anyone with a brain is made to feel guilty in some way for being smart enough to succeed.  Original independent thought is discouraged and often punished.

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15 hours ago, Malsua said:

What happens if there is a NICS denial?    The "buyer" is going to want his money back.  The dealer now has my gun and is going to want money for NICS.   Worse, if I want my gun back, I have to have NICS run on me.   Even worse still, if the dealer is a prick, he could keep the gun or give me 30 cents on the dollar.   Not saying I wouldn't make sure the entire world would know, but at that point, technically, I'm signing over a firearm to the dealer for free.   

At least with pistol permits in the past there was no chance of a NICS denial.

This has not happened to me, but I do have some rifles I'm trying to sell and it is possible. I will try to deal with FFLs that I know personally but once its in their books, it has to get logged out somehow.

 

NICS denials in NJ are rare, but the do happen on occasion. If you meet the buyer at the FFL you can wait until the NICS check is approved before turning over the firearm to the dealer. If the buyer doesn't pass the NICS check you would have the option of leaving with the firearm without the need to do a NICS check get back your unsold gun. Once the firearm is turned over to the dealer it must be NICSed out.

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1 minute ago, Scorpio64 said:

The dependent class has out bread the working class here.  Our school system is making sure the dependent class is kept properly stupid and anyone with a brain is made to feel guilty in some way for being smart enough to succeed.  Original independent thought is discouraged and often punished.

Or... are they the smart ones taking advantage of what the working class is willing to give them? Hah!  made you think right?

To put this in perspective... and add some thoughts to this.

On one hand, take a shop like @remixer, @tj462nj, or @JT Custom Guns.  Based on where they are located and their business... we would want the vast majority of their customers to go vote.  People who already own guns and are buying more.

On the flip side...  Take ranges like GFH (West Patterson),, RTSP (union),  and LongShot (Secaucus)... many of their customers are renters from the area who just want to go shoot for fun or for a party, etc... Yes, there is plenty of money and closet conservatives in North Jersey... but by in large... I would say the typical renter does not care about gun rights more than other issues, or merely voting for whom they are supposed to.

Keep in mind, poor people are supposed to vote Democrat... Jews are supposed to vote Democrat apparently because they support Israel more, same for Latinos and african americans.   Many more or encouraged to vote a certain way by their unions and generally the advertising they see in the area.

The other aspect is... I think we have shitty candidates... how many have really reached out to gun owners to make gun rights a big issue?

This is why in some ways I think Sweeney or another south jersey democrat would be a better option if we at least want to protect gun rights.  Or if we want a chance of getting CCW, outside of Surpreme Court, Jeff Van Drew?  The guy from Atlantic City who proposed a CCW license to be opened up for $400.  Better than nothing and at least those guys shot a gun.

But does anyone really think a Republican can win in Union, Essex, Camden or Mercer counties? 

2 minutes ago, Oakridgefirearms said:

NICS denials in NJ are rare, but the do happen on occasion. If you meet the buyer at the FFL you can wait until the NICS check is approved before turning over the firearm to the dealer. If the buyer doesn't pass the NICS check you would have the option of leaving with the firearm without the need to do a NICS check get back your unsold gun. Once the firearm is turned over to the dealer it must be NICSed out.

Would a dealer run a NICS check on the buyer before they log the gun in the book?  Or up to them?

In my case, when I sold the gun, they did not run the NICS until the gun was in their possession and I was happy and had the money.

Er... logistically... Aren't you only supposed to run NICS on a gun in your possession?

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13 hours ago, Malsua said:

Does the dealer have a document that he agrees to intake the gun for a transfer fee and transfer it to the second party?  This is what I'm asking?   If he's just writing it in the book he now owns it.  I agree that ethical dealers would just run a new nics for me and write it back out.  I'm out the fee and two nics.   Unethical dealers would tell me to hit the bricks. Once I've signed it over,  I'm relinquishing claims on it. 

at the same time does the dealer have a receipt that he purchased it :)

I mean technically i guess the dealer has possession but not ownership.  

If you cant trust your FFL then find a new one.

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20 hours ago, myhatinthering said:

it starts with FFLs and gun clubs, we need to mobilize and make sure everyone is on the same page

Sadly no one is ever on the same page.

20 hours ago, Cemeterys Gun Blob said:

The 'third party', as I was explained, is the State Police.  Years ago, it was explained on these forums that FFLs call NJSP, who run the background check in NJ, then they contact NICS, and then get back to the FFL.  Not sure if it's still this way.

In America, the FFL contacts NICS directly. 

3rd party is the billing company... they have nothing to do with the actual nics checks..  I think the billing is even done in house now. 3rd party was when we phoned or faxed in nics.

20 hours ago, myhatinthering said:

nics rarely works as efficiently as it's supposed to.  It's a joke

Sometimes it does.. most times it does not.

19 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Well, do you always know who you are buying a gun from or selling to? Would you risk going to jail over a few bucks?

If your talking friends... Maybe that's different.

Dating would of course be illegal.. but it also carries additional liabilities..  the buyer is claiming he had a gun in his possession when he did not... do you know where that gun was...  was it used in a crime? who knows... i suggest not doing this

 

7 hours ago, Maksim said:

This is a good question and I don't think there is a right or wrong.

Let's say I am selling a gun... is it my responsibility that you can pass a background check?

I look at it this way...

We meet at FFL and we decide... "Do I want to sell it to you and do you want to buy it?"

If "Yes" I get the money, and the gun is handed over to the FFL.  It is at that point between you and the FFL.  FFL gives me a receipt that they took it my gun.

If "No" we part ways.

If you agree to buy it, pay me for it, and then have an issue getting NICS, or need to wait for OGAM (30 days), that is between you and the FFL as far as what they want to charge.

Generally, I would also expect that the NICS + transfer fee would come out from the buyers pocket and the sales price would reflect it.

If you cannot pass a NICS, up to you whether you want to fight it, sell it to the FFL or put it on consignment, or repost it. to sell.  Once the FFL has possession of the gun, it is akin to a new purchase if the seller wants to buy it back and would be incurring fees... yet another transaction and assuming the FFL already filled their bound book. 

Being the biggest gun community, serious question, do we want to set the standard that in F2F, any nics + transfer is on the buyer? 

Why would anyone travel to a dealer to meet the seller with a clause of passing nics... Its the buyers responsibility to pass nics not the seller.. im sure there might be a few who would make that kinda deal.. most would not.

7 hours ago, Maksim said:

I think what we need to consider is this...

Are gun rights the number one priority for most people, even those that may be shopping for guns?

There are plenty of gun buyers who are just as likely to, if not more, vote for free college, sanctuary cities and legalized, er decriminalized weed. 

Furthermore... what percentage of gun owners who REALLY care about gun rights did not already go out and vote?

People voted to increase there taxes..

6 hours ago, Oakridgefirearms said:

NICS denials in NJ are rare, but the do happen on occasion. If you meet the buyer at the FFL you can wait until the NICS check is approved before turning over the firearm to the dealer. If the buyer doesn't pass the NICS check you would have the option of leaving with the firearm without the need to do a NICS check get back your unsold gun. Once the firearm is turned over to the dealer it must be NICSed out.

They are rare but do happen.   Handing FTF transactions can be done in a few ways.

that is one of them.

6 hours ago, Maksim said:

Thanks for that Paul!  

 

Yes its how the ATF recommends it be done but its not the only way to handle a FTF.
I think those suggestion are used since other states do not have permitting processes and anyone can meet up to buy a used gun from a private seller. in NJ we have the permits so thats sorta a pre approval... not guaranteed but its something

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6 hours ago, PK90 said:

Federal guidelines suggest running the NICS before logging in, giving the option for the Seller to retain the firearm on a delay.

I doubt any seller is going to want to return to the dealer again once he's been paid. NJ has delays and it has slow nics.  Day before Christmas it was running 2 - 3 hours.

1. buyer pays seller then pays for his nics and transfer..., Nics is slow... Is the buyer comfortable with the seller leaving with a gun he just paid for while he waits for nics? What if the seller cant come back for a few days... You just handed a stranger cash and got nothing except a promise to return after Nics is cleared.

2. buyer pays seller then pays for his Nics and transfer. Nics is slow...  seller now has to retain the firearm and return once again when Nics clears..  Would a seller want to deal with that?  He's been paid... told other people its sold and now might not be.  I think most sellers prefer to get paid and leave.

Iv asked this question to people and most want a painless non worry transfer which means...
Make the deal. Meet at dealer, Pay seller and be done... Buyer waits for Nics.

Which ever way your dealer does it is not wrong... Both methods provide a legal transfer. its just how the transfer takes place... i suggest you ask your dealer prior to arriving how they conduct the FTF transactions. I do it the same way iv done it for 8 years. New law did not change anything when doing a FTF at least in my shop. 

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7 hours ago, Oakridgefirearms said:

NICS denials in NJ are rare, but the do happen on occasion. If you meet the buyer at the FFL you can wait until the NICS check is approved before turning over the firearm to the dealer. If the buyer doesn't pass the NICS check you would have the option of leaving with the firearm without the need to do a NICS check get back your unsold gun. Once the firearm is turned over to the dealer it must be NICSed out.

Thanks Tom.   I am glad I'm going to try to use you for as many of these rifles as I can.   I'm going to stop by next Tuesday to discuss a couple of them that frankly won't sell in NJ unless I wanted to give them away.  Not a big demand for African safari guns here.

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9 hours ago, Maksim said:

I think what we need to consider is this...

Are gun rights the number one priority for most people, even those that may be shopping for guns?

There are plenty of gun buyers who are just as likely to, if not more, vote for free college, sanctuary cities and legalized, er decriminalized weed. 

Furthermore... what percentage of gun owners who REALLY care about gun rights did not already go out and vote?

This, right here.

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3 hours ago, remixer said:

I doubt any seller is going to want to return to the dealer again once he's been paid. NJ has delays and it has slow nics.  Day before Christmas it was running 2 - 3 hours.

1. buyer pays seller then pays for his nics and transfer..., Nics is slow... Is the buyer comfortable with the seller leaving with a gun he just paid for while he waits for nics? What if the seller cant come back for a few days... You just handed a stranger cash and got nothing except a promise to return after Nics is cleared.

2. buyer pays seller then pays for his Nics and transfer. Nics is slow...  seller now has to retain the firearm and return once again when Nics clears..  Would a seller want to deal with that?  He's been paid... told other people its sold and now might not be.  I think most sellers prefer to get paid and leave.

Iv asked this question to people and most want a painless non worry transfer which means...
Make the deal. Meet at dealer, Pay seller and be done... Buyer waits for Nics.

Which ever way your dealer does it is not wrong... Both methods provide a legal transfer. its just how the transfer takes place... i suggest you ask your dealer prior to arriving how they conduct the FTF transactions. I do it the same way iv done it for 8 years. New law did not change anything when doing a FTF at least in my shop. 

Most of the transfers I do the seller hands the firearm over after they have been paid and lets the buyer deal with NICS check on their own. Often the seller drops off the firearm ahead of time since they can't get a good time to meet up with the buyer, or the buyer is waiting for permits, OGAM, address change, etc. I let the seller know that they have the option of meeting the buyer and waiting for the NICS to come back, but most don't want to wait for it even knowing if the deal were to fall through the gun would need to be NICSed back to them. Knowing NICS denials are rare in NJ seems to be deciding factor in whether to wait out the NICS check or not.

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2 minutes ago, Oakridgefirearms said:

Most of the transfers I do the seller hands the firearm over after they have been paid and lets the buyer deal with NICS check on their own. Often the seller drops off the firearm ahead of time since they can't get a good time to meet up with the buyer, or the buyer is waiting for permits, OGAM, address change, etc. I let the seller know that they have the option of meeting the buyer and waiting for the NICS to come back, but most don't want to wait for it even knowing if the deal were to fall through the gun would need to be NICSed back to them. Knowing NICS denials are rare in NJ seems to be deciding factor in whether to wait out the NICS check or not.

Pretty much how i see it as well.  

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FFLs around me appear to be gouging private citizens on the private sales.  And they want me to buy ammo and stuff from them?  $60 to $100  to put it on their books and make a call to the truth police....  There should be a governmental way to do the transfer... Hey, if gun shops want to gouge you on a transfer of a new item that you had shipped to them that they could have ordered, so be it.  But how is it constitutional that we have to pay a private entity to practice our 'permitted" rights?    We should be able to deduct the dealer fee from the sales tax, but instead we are taxed on the unreasonable dealer fee.  

 

I wanted to buy two lower receivers, and the transfer fees on each were more than the price of the two receivers.  I know, they are "guns" but really they are not.  I also know that there is not much of a markup on firearms and how much it costs a small mom and pop shop to stock stuff, get it shipped, etc.   And, if these shops went out of business, then I would apparently not be able to purchase any more guns in NJ....  Private or not. So, I just grit my teeth, find the best deal possible, and believe me, I would not spend money in their store other than what I had to.  I would rather buy Ammo online, targets on line, etc. than support them when they take advantage of me.  They can charge what they want and they make that choice.  Some charge a lot more for a transfer than they would actually make off of a gun that they had to have shipped to their shop (they paid the shipping), and that is wrong.  If a dealer made about $30-50 of of each gun they sold, then they shouldn't be asking more than that.  I know, I know, they cannot grow and get better options from their distributors unless they make the sales.  I would bet you a lot more people wouldn't go into their stores and then buy a gun from Buds or some other place if they weren't gouged.  

This whole system is almost a good example of crony capitalism.  But, again, from another perspective, think long and hard what would happen to the gun community if the dealers were put out of business.  There would be no legal firearms sales. Of course, Elmer would grin and say, "Well, I got my shotgun!"

The only reason I can think of that I have to pay for my rights is that they are not rights at all.  I am subject to a sovereign government.  So dealers, I would love to get a response.  At $90 for 15 minutes worth of work, that seems to be about $360 per hour. Not bad, especially with no overhead. I guess technically, they are taking a risk with firearms going through their store.  

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7 hours ago, Underdog said:

FFLs around me appear to be gouging private citizens on the private sales.  And they want me to buy ammo and stuff from them?  $60 to $100  to put it on their books and make a call to the truth police....  There should be a governmental way to do the transfer... Hey, if gun shops want to gouge you on a transfer of a new item that you had shipped to them that they could have ordered, so be it.  But how is it constitutional that we have to pay a private entity to practice our 'permitted" rights?    We should be able to deduct the dealer fee from the sales tax, but instead we are taxed on the unreasonable dealer fee.  

 

I wanted to buy two lower receivers, and the transfer fees on each were more than the price of the two receivers.  I know, they are "guns" but really they are not.  I also know that there is not much of a markup on firearms and how much it costs a small mom and pop shop to stock stuff, get it shipped, etc.   And, if these shops went out of business, then I would apparently not be able to purchase any more guns in NJ....  Private or not. So, I just grit my teeth, find the best deal possible, and believe me, I would not spend money in their store other than what I had to.  I would rather buy Ammo online, targets on line, etc. than support them when they take advantage of me.  They can charge what they want and they make that choice.  Some charge a lot more for a transfer than they would actually make off of a gun that they had to have shipped to their shop (they paid the shipping), and that is wrong.  If a dealer made about $30-50 of of each gun they sold, then they shouldn't be asking more than that.  I know, I know, they cannot grow and get better options from their distributors unless they make the sales.  I would bet you a lot more people wouldn't go into their stores and then buy a gun from Buds or some other place if they weren't gouged.  

This whole system is almost a good example of crony capitalism.  But, again, from another perspective, think long and hard what would happen to the gun community if the dealers were put out of business.  There would be no legal firearms sales. Of course, Elmer would grin and say, "Well, I got my shotgun!"

The only reason I can think of that I have to pay for my rights is that they are not rights at all.  I am subject to a sovereign government.  So dealers, I would love to get a response.  At $90 for 15 minutes worth of work, that seems to be about $360 per hour. Not bad, especially with no overhead. I guess technically, they are taking a risk with firearms going through their store.  

Did you not find out the cost of transfer before sending the lowers there?  Or buying from someone else?

Ultimately I think it is up to the individual dealers to figure out what they want to be in the business off and how much they care about their members.

What I can say is that when I sold my handgun to a forum member, we went through @gunforhire and they absolutely took care of the member (who was a member at the range).

If they were not a member?  Or you are simply picking an FFL from a list?  I have ZERO doubts that a random gun shop, not affiliated with the community would use it as a short term $$$ play with zero care if you come back or not.

It is also quite possible they are charging nuisance pricing... much like what many contractors do when they are already busy with work.

Realistically... should have been one NICS $15 + transfer... and if on the same form, same time, should not have been much more.   PM me what shop/store this was. 

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If you don't like your local FFL find a new one. NJ has no shortage of dealers.

Its a catch 22.... You refuse to buy from them because they are expensive.....they refuse to do transfers cheap because you refuse to buy from them.

Its a common story with all LGS's its not a NJ thing.

 

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8 minutes ago, remixer said:

If you don't like your local FFL find a new one. NJ has no shortage of dealers.

Its a catch 22.... You refuse to buy from them because they are expensive.....they refuse to do transfers cheap because you refuse to buy from them.

Its a common story with all LGS's its not a NJ thing.

 

@remixer and you have been quite good with this so I am sure you would agree...

If you are a big range or transfers are not your thing... but you really have to offer them, you are going to price it high to discourage people from doing so... and nothing wrong with doing it.  

There are FFLs who are happy to mainly do transfers, and there are FFLs who cater to new gun owners and new sales.   Transfers can take time and if you are used to making $100 on a new gun + accessories, or bigger money on rentals and walk ons, pulling someone off of the floor to do a transfer ends up costing them money.

Other FFL's I spoke with are more than happy to do cheap transfers because they are looking at getting more foot traffic, etc, in hopes of you coming back one day. 

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13 minutes ago, Maksim said:

@remixer and you have been quite good with this so I am sure you would agree...

If you are a big range or transfers are not your thing... but you really have to offer them, you are going to price it high to discourage people from doing so... and nothing wrong with doing it.  

There are FFLs who are happy to mainly do transfers, and there are FFLs who cater to new gun owners and new sales.   Transfers can take time and if you are used to making $100 on a new gun + accessories, or bigger money on rentals and walk ons, pulling someone off of the floor to do a transfer ends up costing them money.

Other FFL's I spoke with are more than happy to do cheap transfers because they are looking at getting more foot traffic, etc, in hopes of you coming back one day. 

There's more to this.  

1. High volume stores have no interest in doing transfers at all but offer it.
2. No FFL is happy mainly doing transfers.  If an FFL is setup for transfers only then they would not have the stock or showroom to even sell accessories. A high volume store hates transfers because its a waste of time. Between the paperwork, waiting around for nics and million questions its more of a hassle for them. Then you have those who have no intention of purchasing a firearm locally but will use those locations as a showroom and the ability to finger fuck what they want to purchase online. The last scenario is not rare... its very common. Those people usually show there hand pretty quickly and pretty much put them on the pay no mind list.

I have many friends who own stores from the Home FFL to the larger stores... We take about the daily gun store drama and its pretty funny and sad at the same time.  Just this weekend right before closing we had a guy walk in with his GF asking to "Touch" the new Walther Q5 steel. WTF is touch im thinking?  Not buy... Price out... Just touch...  Then you have those who will spend about 45 min looking at guns.. asking questions , touching everything then ask you about transfer fee's.. This is all part of the transfer cost. Plenty of people refuse to buy local even when the prices are similar because then add NJ sales tax on top.  Then you have those who understand a fair price and will purchase, These are not all Newbies these are veteran gun collectors plenty of which are members of this forum...  They understand they are not just purchasing a gun.

I'm a small boutique style part time store and that shit infuriates me sometimes.  Imagine a store with 4 or 5 full time employees.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, remixer said:

There's more to this.  

1. High volume stores have no interest in doing transfers at all but offer it.
2. No FFL is happy mainly doing transfers.  If an FFL is setup for transfers only then they would not have the stock or showroom to even sell accessories. A high volume store hates transfers because its a waste of time. Between the paperwork, waiting around for nics and million questions its more of a hassle for them. Then you have those who have no intention of purchasing a firearm locally but will use those locations as a showroom and the ability to finger fuck what they want to purchase online. The last scenario is not rare... its very common. Those people usually show there hand pretty quickly and pretty much put them on the pay no mind list.

I have many friends who own stores from the Home FFL to the larger stores... We take about the daily gun store drama and its pretty funny and sad at the same time.  Just this weekend right before closing we had a guy walk in with his GF asking to "Touch" the new Walther Q5 steel. WTF is touch im thinking?  Not buy... Price out... Just touch...  Then you have those who will spend about 45 min looking at guns.. asking questions , touching everything then ask you about transfer fee's.. This is all part of the transfer cost. Plenty of people refuse to buy local even when the prices are similar because then add NJ sales tax on top.  Then you have those who understand a fair price and will purchase, These are not all Newbies there are veteran gun collectors...  They understand they are not just purchasing a gun.

I'm a small boutique style part time store and that shit infuriates me sometimes.  Imagine a store with 4 or 5 full time employees.

 

 

 

I would think for the large high volume store... that is all part of the game and you have to accept that it will happen.

At the same time, if you are charging stupid high prices near MSRP... merely to justify large overhead... whose problem is it?

FFLs, particularly in NJ are a very protected business and I don't think there is enough competition, versus say PA or other free states.

Take a look at even gun ranges around.  I pay $30 a year for an outdoor range that has a 100 yard outdoor, 25 yard outdoor pistol, hunting grounds and shotgun field.  About half of the members are Jersey residents. =P  But I digress...

Looking at FFLs, even shops around here are typically $25 including PICS for transfers and that is the norm... once again, competition.

But I agree, there will always be unreasonable people... i.e. refusing to buy even if you can match the same price as online including tax... BUT I don't think it is fair to complain about someone who comes into the shop and wants to hold a gun, especially if it is a brand new body walking into the store...  That is why there are those big showrooms, right?  And do large stores, say Cabelas, care as much about the customer as you do?  Or value their business?  I highly doubt it... I bought guns at both but I get birthday and holiday cards from my local FFLs.

And I do agree, if you are a range first... your main priority is the range.

But for large FFLs... sorry, if gun stores "in America" can charge fair prices and do really well... with lots of competition, dealing with tire kickers is part of the business. =)

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Smart FFLs would offer a less busy time in their shops to do free or almost free transactions and offer patrons credit for any firearms transfer fees that have to be paid.  Maybe if that was setup, especially for Long Guns, then the state wouldn't get to collect revenue on that taxed fee, and it would give good will, increase business, etc.   I want my local FFLs to stay in business, and if they treat me right, I will treat them right.  

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