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stuckinNJ

Did the ban on private sales go into effect? What's the protocol now? What are gun shops charging? Does buyer or seller pay or is the fee split?

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"These laws were basically written to help dealers."    exactly.    
The funny thing is the NJ 2A Community is so naive they keep putting dealers in charge. I would expect no different result than what we have gotten.

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48 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Why would a dealer not want to inform customers of these laws? These laws were basically written to help dealers. Wonder why that is?

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One can only speculate.  Possibly because they know Fudds don't care?  Fudds think all this doesn't apply to them?  Fudds don't buy their ammo in bulk as we do so they still go to local stores (including Dicks) as opposed to internet sales so pissing them off with additional fees would cost business?

Many of us on here are small business owners so I know I'm going to get flack for this but if there was a gun shop that only charged $1.00 for a P2P transfer as a show of support, I for one would shop in that store for every need regardless of pricing and convenience.  It may come back to them 2 fold and show an in-your-face to those denying us our rights.  I would feel similar if they refused to be a magazine turn in point for those feeling the pressure to do that instead of putting them in your safe deposit box at the bank. No one says they have to accept them. Murphy should not see one turn and we should all support each other in that. 

As most of us know Fudds are a different animal.  Many are Trump haters. Many are Murphy/Mendez supporters.  Many don't realize the cancelling of the bear hunt was not pro-bear but anti-gun. And on and on.  They're a tough nut to crack when it comes to this hobby of ours.

 

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One can only speculate.  Possibly because they know Fudds don't care?  Fudds think all this doesn't apply to them?  Fudds don't buy their ammo in bulk as we do so they still go to local stores (including Dicks) as opposed to internet sales so pissing them off with additional fees would cost business?
Many of us on here are small business owners so I know I'm going to get flack for this but if there was a gun shop that only charged $1.00 for a P2P transfer as a show of support, I for one would shop in that store for every need regardless of pricing and convenience.  It may come back to them 2 fold and show an in-your-face to those denying us our rights.  I would feel similar if they refused to be a magazine turn in point for those feeling the pressure to do that instead of putting them in your safe deposit box at the bank. No one says they have to accept them. Murphy should not see one turn and we should all support each other in that. 
As most of us know Fudds are a different animal.  Many are Trump haters. Many are Murphy/Mendez supporters.  Many don't realize the cancelling of the bear hunt was not pro-bear but anti-gun. And on and on.  They're a tough nut to crack when it comes to this hobby of ours.
 
I tried explaining this. Or at least charge NICS only. It would come back in spades. However many NJ dealers aren't walk in and buy from their inventory. There are a few left but most make their money on transfers and ordering.

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Just now, capt14k said:

I tried explaining this. Or at least charge NICS only. It would come back in spades. However many NJ dealers aren't walk in and buy from their inventory. There are a few left but most make their money on transfers and ordering.

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If it's coming from another FFL and they're not getting a mark-up on the gun, then sure.  But if it's a drop ship to them as a direct purchase to the customer then I agree they should not. But I was going specifically for the new P2P sales issue.  They should stand with us and not alienate us.  As newer and newer laws come into play it eventually will eat into their business.  Antis would love to see them out and replaced with a pot dealer.  They're no safer than we are.  It just may take a little longer. Supply and demand. We need to be demanding for them to move their supply. If the laws get created as such that we can't demand then what? They should be standing shoulder to shoulder with us as well as educating the Fudds.  I'm on a Hunter's forum trying to do just that.  But I'm viewed as another nut with one of those guns we don't need because it's not a double barrel.   

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If it's coming from another FFL and they're not getting a mark-up on the gun, then sure.  But if it's a drop ship to them as a direct purchase to the customer then I agree they should not. But I was going specifically for the new P2P sales issue.  They should stand with us and not alienate us.  As newer and newer laws come into play it eventually will eat into their business.  Antis would love to see them out and replaced with a pot dealer.  They're no safer than we are.  It just may take a little longer. Supply and demand. We need to be demanding for them to move their supply. If the laws get created as such that we can't demand then what? They should be standing shoulder to shoulder with us as well as educating the Fudds.  I'm on a Hunter's forum trying to do just that.  But I'm viewed as another nut with one of those guns we don't need because it's not a double barrel.   
We are on the same page. I was only talking about person to person NJ resident transfers.

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So you want the dealer to do more work and not be compensated for it?

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They don't have to do anything. I think it would be a smart marketing move. Like a loss leader but they aren't losing anything but a little time.

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22 minutes ago, PK90 said:

So you want the dealer to do more work and not be compensated for it?

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I want the dealer to show support and not just throw up their hands and say "what do want from me? I have to".  I want the dealer to be part of the community instead of a bump in the road of regulations we need to learn how to deal with.    

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12 minutes ago, BobA said:

I want the dealer to show support and not just throw up their hands and say "what do want from me? I have to".  I want the dealer to be part of the community.    

If they have to do exactly the same things as they did when you buy a gun through gunbroker, except don't have to unpack it, why would they charge significantly less? They have to log it according to ATF, so time, effort, and expenses are still incurred. Am I happy about it? Of course not. But when transfers take away time from paying customers, I don't expect any freebies. If someone local did it for $20 all-in, I would be more likely to go there, but not faulting a dealer for the shitty situation forced on all of us.

Based on everything we see, there are likely dozens of unknowingly illegal transfers by otherwise law-abiding subjects going on every day anyway. And I hope non-compliance is high among the clued-in as well.

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1 hour ago, PK90 said:

So you want the dealer to do more work and not be compensated for it?

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If I buy From Bob’s gun shop I can expect a transfer fee. If I buy from Bob in Pa I can expect a transfer fee. But if I buy From @BobA I shouldn’t expect a transfer fee? Doesn’t make sense. No one is happy about it. Focus your energy on calling your legislators... there is no longer a justification for FPID and P2P since face 2 face has theoretically been eliminated.

 Jeebus you guys are blaming and attacking everyone. Who’s next? The crossing guards?

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If they have to do exactly the same things as they did when you buy a gun through gunbroker, except don't have to unpack it, why would they charge significantly less? They have to log it according to ATF, so time, effort, and expenses are still incurred. Am I happy about it? Of course not. But when transfers take away time from paying customers, I don't expect any freebies. If someone local did it for $20 all-in, I would be more likely to go there, but not faulting a dealer for the shitty situation forced on all of us.
Based on everything we see, there are likely dozens of unknowingly illegal transfers by otherwise law-abiding subjects going on every day anyway. And I hope non-compliance is high among the clued-in as well.
Do you understand what a loss leader is? How much good will marketing is worth? If it is a small shop that makes their money on transfers they will still make it up when more people ship to them.

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No one said that and as usual the thread is digressing in all different directions. No one blamed the FFLs either.  But as a by product right or wrong they do profit.  And I'll agree its their job to to so.  But on the same token I haven't seen any push back on their part either.  Campaign posters for pro-gun candidates in or outside the shops? A dollar from a purchase going to a pro-gun or campaign of some sort? Petitions on their counters for us to sign? I just don't see the support. And my whole point was not that they should give freebies but to remember in the bigger picture once the day comes we're totally screwed so are they. And there are already some out of business to show this. In the end they are in the same boat we are.  But we're the people stuck in the bottom of the boat which sinks first.  They're on the bridge and will sink later.  It needs to be a one for all and all for one instead of sitting back and fiddling while watching Rome burn.

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I for one will go out of my way to a shop that shows support for the 2A community rather than just profiting off of it. Also wake up people when you vote for leadership positions. Vote for a Non-FFL or a FFL who isn't profiting off of the changes in the law and is with us.

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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

Do you understand what a loss leader is? How much good will marketing is worth? If it is a small shop that makes their money on transfers they will still make it up when more people ship to them.

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Well aware what a loss leader is. And hey, maybe some shops will do that. I highly doubt it, but maybe some will. Problem with a loss leader is there will always be people who take advantage of that and then never buy anything else there. People go miles outta their way to save 5 cents on gas, how many of them also go inside the convenience store while getting a fillup?

There are some who seem to think compliance work or transfers should be free (or damn close) because we live in a fucked up state. Meanwhile, people won't buy a gun locally because it would be $10 more than buying it online and transferring it. I don't know how loyal most gun owners are to a single shop, and I wonder what percentage would not take advantage of (abuse) a loss leader if it were not their regular shop.

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I want the dealer to show support and not just throw up their hands and say "what do want from me? I have to".  I want the dealer to be part of the community instead of a bump in the road of regulations we need to learn how to deal with.


Not implying you, but I also see A LOT of people in the gun community argue that... but when they look for guns, they will buy a gun online that is $20 less than a local gun shop. Never mind shipping, and then the transfer that the dealer usually just charges NICS for a sale out of his inventory.

So, people want them to support the community when it effects them positively, yet not give them a dime for sales, and complain about transfer fees. Have I picked up stuff online, and transferred locally? Of course... however, usually only things I could not get locally.

Are there s***y FFLs in NJ, exploiting the community? Yes. However, they are actually a minority. If anyone wants to carry transfers out like that, apply for your FFL, go through the hoops, and offer what you feel is right. I’m sure by the time you get your license in hand (time and finances invested), you’ll view it very differently.

Sorry, but since all this legislation has come up, I’ve noticed a side of NJ gun owners that I didn’t really observe prior (not just on here). And for as much as it seems terrible to say, the mail in ballot I sent in will be my last support of the gun community in this state.

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12 minutes ago, Screwball said:

Not implying you, but I also see A LOT of people in the gun community argue that... but when they look for guns, they will buy a gun online that is $20 less than a local gun shop. Never mind shipping, and then the transfer that the dealer usually just charges NICS for a sale out of his inventory.

You make good points.  It's not good times for any brick and mortar out there.  Just for the record for future discussions, I do not internet shop.  Never amazoned.  I will Ebay but you'll never even catch me in a HomeDepot.  I'm big on the little guy to shop at.  That being said I have gotten some ammo from online but that was after a local shop wanted me to enter in a book what I was buying.  Not a fan of that.  Most of my ammo is bought from guys in the "For Sale" sections of sites like these privately.  All my guns but one were purchased in state, some at FFLs, some private sales.  I very much agree and support local shop purchases.  Just not "feeling the love" in return when it comes to 2A support.  

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Well aware what a loss leader is. And hey, maybe some shops will do that. I highly doubt it, but maybe some will. Problem with a loss leader is there will always be people who take advantage of that and then never buy anything else there. People go miles outta their way to save 5 cents on gas, how many of them also go inside the convenience store while getting a fillup?
There are some who seem to think compliance work or transfers should be free (or damn close) because we live in a fucked up state. Meanwhile, people won't buy a gun locally because it would be $10 more than buying it online and transferring it. I don't know how loyal most gun owners are to a single shop, and I wonder what percentage would not take advantage of (abuse) a loss leader if it were not their regular shop.
A lot go in the convenience store. That is why most new stations have one.

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A lot go in the convenience store. That is why most new stations have one.

 

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What loss leaders do you offer in your business?

 

What is your labor worth on an hourly basis?

 

All those who want to place blame on the FFL’s are the same folks that have stated for a few years they will not buy anything from a local store in Nj and will travel to PA for long gun purchases / transfers.

 

I would like a list of the business’s members of this thread own as I would like to demand products and services at cost. It’s the right thing to do since I am over taxed in this state. You should stand by the people of NJ.

 

 

 

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People nowadays are entitled to get their free stuff. It's not the government's fault, it's yours. Your not supporting their cause. You're profiting off the law. Shame on you.

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People nowadays are entitled to get their free stuff. It's not the government's fault, it's yours. Your not supporting their cause. You're profiting off the law. Shame on you.

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Best part of this is the word “profiting”

Live in the shoes of the average ffl in Nj and let me know how u like it
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8 hours ago, capt14k said:

Why would a dealer not want to inform customers of these laws? These laws were basically written to help dealers. Wonder why that is?

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These laws were not written to "help dealers"!

They were written by idiots who think they are closing a loophole and get NICS done on every transfers; and the fact that the additional NICS charges and the tax charged by the dealers goes to the state doesn't hurt them (State) either.........

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 What loss leaders do you offer in your business?

 

What is your labor worth on an hourly basis?

 

All those who want to place blame on the FFL’s are the same folks that have stated for a few years they will not buy anything from a local store in Nj and will travel to PA for long gun purchases / transfers.

 

I would like a list of the business’s members of this thread own as I would like to demand products and services at cost. It’s the right thing to do since I am over taxed in this state. You should stand by the people of NJ.

 

 

 

 

 

I have run multiple loss leaders. Free plumbing system inspections, water heater, boiler, etc. $99 drain cleaning. Free estimates.

 

I value my labor depending on what I am doing. Plumbing $200. Heating $150. Carpentry $125. Office $100.

 

I do blame FFLs in leadership positions. They should never be in charge of 2A Fight since their goals are different than ours. I don't blame FFLs whose main business is transfers. Though I think they will benefit from loss leader.

 

After being on Facebook and seeing how many twenty somethings have FFL01 with SOT I am going that route myself. I have building I own, has vault, and I already built another store with separate entrance. Also means post 86 MG.

 

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 I have run multiple loss leaders. Free plumbing system inspections, water heater, boiler, etc. $99 drain cleaning. Free estimates.

 

I value my labor depending on what I am doing. Plumbing $200. Heating $150. Carpentry $125. Office $100.

 

I do blame FFLs in leadership positions. They should never be in charge of 2A Fight since their goals are different than ours. I don't blame FFLs whose main business is transfers. Though I think they will benefit from loss leader.

 

After being on Facebook and seeing how many twenty somethings have FFL01 with SOT I am going that route myself. I have building I own, has vault, and I already built another store with separate entrance. Also means post 86 MG.

 

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$25.00 transfer is a Loss leader

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$25.00 transfer is. Loss leader
No it is not. If it included NICS I could agree. If it was PA dealers wouldn't be doing transfer and PICS for $20. No one is saying free transfers on out of state and no one is saying you have to do it. Just that it would be good marketing. I guess if a store does it we will see.

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Btw a loss leader comparison between a gun store and your store would be free drain cleaning
That's the $99 drain cleaning like the $15 transfer. Free inspection comparison would be free transfer.

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I've done free transfers as a holiday sale promotion. Most people got their gun and walked out. Never again.

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Any coupon, special, advertising takes a minimum of 3 months to see if it is effective.

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