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stuckinNJ

Did the ban on private sales go into effect? What's the protocol now? What are gun shops charging? Does buyer or seller pay or is the fee split?

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5 hours ago, myhatinthering said:

Great post and I have to agree for the most part. For me however I refuse to pay the transfer fees if I see somebody posting to sell something and then I decide to buy it. My reasoning is that they are looking to sell it I didn't ask them specifically for it, I didn't put a wanted to buy add up. If you are looking to sell you better factor in those transfer cost in your price. Then again, I find I buy very little in New Jersey because people seem to have an inflated value of what they have and always include the nics in the price. Kind of an interesting studying seller Behavior to be honest

I also guarantee that quite a few people are not going to use or abide by the new law. Imagine having done business with somebody for years upon years or family or close friends and now all of a sudden the two of you are expected to go through an FFL?   unless you are buying anything serialized after the date it is virtually impossible for anyone to determine when you sold it to them because you could say I sold it prior to that date.

I don't see how it'd be possible to avoid the new law when the COE now demands a NICS #. Private handgun sales will certainly no longer work since the form is sent to NJSP.

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Nothing changes for reporting legal handgun transfers. The NJSP will still get the registration information. Long guns are still not registered, as the form stays with the seller and buyer, although the transaction will be recorded. 

I have a question for the NJ FFLs. Will you keep a copy of the COE, or just have your customers fill it out and keep their copy? Did the NJSP FIU give you instructions on that?

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Just now, PK90 said:

Nothing changes for reporting legal handgun transfers. The NJSP will still get the registration information. Long guns are still not registered, as the form stays with the seller and buyer, although the transaction will be recorded. 

I have a question for the NJ FFLs. Will you keep a copy of the COE, or just have your customers fill it out and keep their copy? Did the NJSP FIU give you instructions on that?

As i see it the seller doesn't get a copy of the COE. The transfer is handled the same as a gun coming in from Out of State. The Seller is turning it over to the FFL, who take temp ownership and executes the COE. The COE is simply stating that the weapon (Rifle, Shotgun or frame) is legal in NJ at time of transfer - that for is between the FFL and the person receiving the transfer.......

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I would have the seller fill it out, and both the seller and buyer retain their own copies, not the dealer. The dealer should check #32 on the 4473. The NJSP FIU did not want any COEs in the past and I see no changes by law?

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2 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

As i see it the seller doesn't get a copy of the COE. The transfer is handled the same as a gun coming in from Out of State. The Seller is turning it over to the FFL, who take temp ownership and executes the COE. The COE is simply stating that the weapon (Rifle, Shotgun or frame) is legal in NJ at time of transfer - that for is between the FFL and the person receiving the transfer.......

this scenaro offers no proof of legal sale for the seller. seller surely needs a coe no? or does the ffl offer seller an other receipt?

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2 hours ago, PK90 said:

I would have the seller fill it out, and both the seller and buyer retain their own copies, not the dealer. The dealer should check #32 on the 4473. The NJSP FIU did not want any COEs in the past and I see no changes by law?

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I understood the process is to facilitate the NICS and not the sale. No temporary ownerships, transfers or registrations. 

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I think a LOT of folks with old COE's are gonna retroactively buy & sell LOTS of long guns w/o a NICS check.  And I don't see direct family members bothering with any paperwork at all, especially in cases of passing-down Grandpa's unregistered arms to the grandkids.  Guns with wooden stocks especially!  And Finders-Keepers with Pre-'68 guns w/o any serial numbers too.  

Fudds are "Fuddy" for a reason!  To their benefit, they're cheap & won't put-up with this outrage.  The Murphy regime has, IMHO, created a paperless BLACK MARKET for every long gun in NJ since they're not registered to begin with.  If you KNOW the person you're buying the long gun from and know they haven't committed a felony with the gun you're buying, well, the writing is on the wall, especially for veterans that won't put up with this BS!  I'm not saying it's OK to do this, I can just envision it happening a LOT!

All the NICS wants to know at point of sale is long gun or hand gun.

Where did you get that gun George?  I picked it up years ago when I lived in XYZ state Martha.  OK, good.  Goodnight George.  Goodnight Martha.

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27 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

I think a LOT of folks with old COE's are gonna retroactively buy & sell LOTS of long guns w/o a NICS check.  And I don't see direct family members bothering with any paperwork at all, especially in cases of passing-down Grandpa's unregistered arms to the grandkids.  Guns with wooden stocks especially!  And Finders-Keepers with Pre-'68 guns w/o any serial numbers too.  

Fudds are "Fuddy" for a reason!  To their benefit, they're cheap & won't put-up with this outrage.  The Murphy regime has, IMHO, created a paperless BLACK MARKET for every long gun in NJ since they're not registered to begin with.  If you KNOW the person you're buying the long gun from and know they haven't committed a felony with the gun you're buying, well, the writing is on the wall, especially for veterans that won't put up with this BS!  I'm not saying it's OK to do this, I can just envision it happening a LOT!

All the NICS wants to know at point of sale is long gun or hand gun.

Where did you get that gun George?  I picked it up years ago when I lived in XYZ state Martha.  OK, good.  Goodnight George.  Goodnight Martha.

Oh now, you're silly.  Everyone wants to pay more and waste time to pass down that old bird gun from Gramps to junior.    LOL. 

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20 hours ago, PK90 said:

Nothing changes for reporting legal handgun transfers. The NJSP will still get the registration information. Long guns are still not registered, as the form stays with the seller and buyer, although the transaction will be recorded. 

I have a question for the NJ FFLs. Will you keep a copy of the COE, or just have your customers fill it out and keep their copy? Did the NJSP FIU give you instructions on that?

transaction recorded. does that include make/model/serial#?

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I think a LOT of folks with old COE's are gonna retroactively buy & sell LOTS of long guns w/o a NICS check.  And I don't see direct family members bothering with any paperwork at all, especially in cases of passing-down Grandpa's unregistered arms to the grandkids.  Guns with wooden stocks especially!  And Finders-Keepers with Pre-'68 guns w/o any serial numbers too.  
Fudds are "Fuddy" for a reason!  To their benefit, they're cheap & won't put-up with this outrage.  The Murphy regime has, IMHO, created a paperless BLACK MARKET for every long gun in NJ since they're not registered to begin with.  If you KNOW the person you're buying the long gun from and know they haven't committed a felony with the gun you're buying, well, the writing is on the wall, especially for veterans that won't put up with this BS!  I'm not saying it's OK to do this, I can just envision it happening a LOT!
All the NICS wants to know at point of sale is long gun or hand gun.
Where did you get that gun George?  I picked it up years ago when I lived in XYZ state Martha.  OK, good.  Goodnight George.  Goodnight Martha.
Exactly. This is how it is done everywhere else. Regardless of who lives in what state and what state whom is in, but NJ they are good little sheeple and do as told.

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30 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Exactly. This is how it is done everywhere else. Regardless of who lives in what state and what state whom is in, but NJ they are good little sheeple and do as told.

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Not everyone is a sheeple.  Copies of empty COE's will be around for TIME ETERNAL.  As long as private copy machines exist and aren't just government owned & controlled, copies will be available.  Of course nothing of new model that just came out this week or manufactured past 10-01-18 can be written on a COE w/o a FFL getting into the picture, but there's at least 3 generations of usable long guns out there right now.  Probably 4-5 if you count old War Horses.  There's always a work-around for "Gun Control" in any of its' evil personifications  :) 

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So if the gun in a FTF isn’t going into the books of the dealer, doesn’t that mean that they’re simply running a NICS? Meaning they should only be charging the $15 for it, and not a transfer fee since it’s not a transfer?

 

Edit: it seems based on that guidance posted by @PK90 that it does, in fact, enter the FFLs books, so I assume it’s considered an actual transfer. Damn.

Edited by stuckinNJ

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

Not everyone is a sheeple.  Copies of empty COE's will be around for TIME ETERNAL.  As long as private copy machines exist and aren't just government owned & controlled, copies will be available.  Of course nothing of new model that just came out this week or manufactured past 10-01-18 can be written on a COE w/o a FFL getting into the picture, but there's at least 3 generations of usable long guns out there right now.  Probably 4-5 if you count old War Horses.  There's always a work-around for "Gun Control" in any of its' evil personifications  :) 

I can see FTF still going on between friends and relatives. Nothing changed with the law. If one is willing to bend the law, why even do a COE? But, are you going to buy a long gun from someone you don't know and pre-date the COE? The gun could have a body attached to it, or something similar, between the COE date and the transfer date.

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I can see FTF still going on between friends and relatives. Nothing changed with the law. If one is willing to bend the law, why even do a COE? But, are you going to buy a long gun from someone you don't know and pre-date the COE? The gun could have a body attached to it, or something similar, between the COE date and the transfer date.
If we are just talking long guns I suppose it could be on of the hundred or so nationally used in a homicide annually. I would think that number would drop considerably if it is a C&R, but then again those with FFL03 would be exempt from NICS for C&R long gun transfer. So same rules as before. More of a problem than bodies is the fear of rats.

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7 hours ago, PK90 said:

I can see FTF still going on between friends and relatives. Nothing changed with the law. If one is willing to bend the law, why even do a COE? But, are you going to buy a long gun from someone you don't know and pre-date the COE? The gun could have a body attached to it, or something similar, between the COE date and the transfer date.

All guns with bodies attached get turned in at the state buy back scam.

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5 hours ago, capt14k said:

If we are just talking long guns I suppose it could be on of the hundred or so nationally used in a homicide annually. I would think that number would drop considerably if it is a C&R, but then again those with FFL03 would be exempt from NICS for C&R long gun transfer. So same rules as before. More of a problem than bodies is the fear of rats.

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Yiup, and the odds that the long gun I'm buying from YOU was used in some crime are about the same as being struck by lightning.  The entire NICS is a scheme of CONTROL.  Bad apples will always get their guns, one way or another.  If this shit sammich was so darned important, how come BATF&E never bothered to collect & prosecute those that filled-out a 4473 as a Prohibited Person?  An actual criminal or abuser files the paperwork to get a gun, gets denied & it goes NOWHERE!

Like I said, it's all a compliance scheme.  Now be good boyz & girlz & run-along, nuthin' to see here...

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9 hours ago, PK90 said:

I can see FTF still going on between friends and relatives. Nothing changed with the law. If one is willing to bend the law, why even do a COE? But, are you going to buy a long gun from someone you don't know and pre-date the COE? The gun could have a body attached to it, or something similar, between the COE date and the transfer date.

I was only inferring friends & family at the onset.  

Maybe I'll expand my horizons & infer these quasi-illegal "buy backs" where the Govmint didn't buy them in the first place?  Nah, let's not rub salt into an open wound.

To answer your question:  I guess the "bending" would have something to do with the long gun itself.  Youth model .22 LR single-shot bolt actions are governed by the same laws as a "reach-out & touch someone at 2K yards" .338 Lapua Magnum w/ thermal imaging $7K scope (and yes I've held one).  Is a body connected to the $150 youth model?  Hardly!  Is it worth paying a $30-$70 transfer fee to sell it to the Dad of a 5 year old?  HARDLY!  Old guns that don't cost much, made of wood & steel, and have changed hands already will continue to do so.  Folks will be more leary of a FTF sale of "evil black rifles" & the like.  And THAT is what Murphy & Co. are actually targeting.  The "EVIL ASSAULT WEAPONS".  Let's not kid ourselves, uncle Joe's Winchester model 70 bolt gun isn't what the Govmint is after info-wise.

ALL GUN CONTROL IS RACIST! 

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