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Greenday

5.56 bolt actions?

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3 hours ago, Greenday said:

I like the look of the Ruger American.

I'm getting the feeling from everyone I talk to I might as well just got with the .308 instead.

If you're shooting paper or soft targets 2-300 yards 5.56 will do fine .  You can get the 308 for the same cost but ammo prices are about double.

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I think the caliber discussion is a good one.  I decided on a .308 for my build, but when I was looking into it I was surprised at how close things were between .223 and .308 at shorter distances:

ballistic_trajectories_chart_6148d00a.pn

I eventually want to shoot out to 1000 yards, so the performances differences are a bit greater out there:ballistic_trajectories_chart_4d810b1b.pn

 

I think I'll eventually build a gun in .223 and one in 300 win mag...just to cover my bases...

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1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said:

I think the caliber discussion is a good one.  I decided on a .308 for my build, but when I was looking into it I was surprised at how close things were between .223 and .308 at shorter distances:

ballistic_trajectories_chart_6148d00a.pn

I eventually want to shoot out to 1000 yards, so the performances differences are a bit greater out there:ballistic_trajectories_chart_4d810b1b.pn

 

I think I'll eventually build a gun in .223 and one in 300 win mag...just to cover my bases...

This is all true.

223/5.56 is more sensitive to wind but if you're shooting longer ranges you need to learn this.

Buying the rifle is one thing.  One generally spends a lot more on ammo than the gun you shoot it in.  The money saved learning on a 223/5.56 at 2-300 yards vs using a 308 can defray the cost of a larger caliber rifle.

The fact is you need to learn to shoot at 2-300 yds before you shoot farther.

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I resolved this question with Tikka T3X Varmint 223 REM that I found on a sale. It is a nice and very boring rifle at 100m range (that I have access to). I put 3-9x scope on it and consistently hit 2" circle sitting with bipod|sandbag with no skills whatsoever. I imagine with skills you can shoot hole into hole with it. There are plenty of other choices; they all most likely will be nice.

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17 minutes ago, myhatinthering said:

223/556 does not belong with ' long-range/precision shooting'  

 

look toward bigger calibers

Gotta say...  Wrong.  

I compete at 600 with it and it is 1K capable.  

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12 minutes ago, Bully said:

Gotta say...  Wrong.  

I compete at 600 with it and it is 1K capable.  

good for you but this isn't a biggest dik contest.  No serious shooter puts 'long-range and precision' in the same sentence as 223/556.  Now if you are one of those weekend armchair yahoos then by all means, have a blast but NO ONE with any serious time behind the crosshairs will give you that pat on the back for 77gr pills at 600 yards. 

 

anything else?

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Define "long range"

Define "precision"

Define your mission

I don't shoot 77's.

I regularly keep up with an often beat the big 7's.  This is at 600 where they should be cleaning up.  I also beat a lot of 30's and I'm not sore at the end of the day as they often are.  

I don't armchair anything.  If I speak about it, it's because I know from experience.  I'm not busting your balls.  I'm a fan of 90% of what you say most times.  However when you're wrong, you're wrong.  And in this case, I feel you're wrong.  

The charts, which I did not post, are just a few posts up.  

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3 hours ago, myhatinthering said:

good for you but this isn't a biggest dik contest.  No serious shooter puts 'long-range and precision' in the same sentence as 223/556.  Now if you are one of those weekend armchair yahoos then by all means, have a blast but NO ONE with any serious time behind the crosshairs will give you that pat on the back for 77gr pills at 600 yards. 

 

anything else?

I think the OP would fall into the weekend/armchair category initially (like me and a lot of others).

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36 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

I think the OP would fall into the weekend/armchair category initially (like me and a lot of others).

I'm competitive with myself. And I honestly don't know where I'd be allowed to shoot more than a few hundred yards around here.

Looks like Cumberland Riflemen has a 600 yard range but they aren't accepting new members. Hutton Hill has a 300 yard range. Only 3 guest visits before you must become a member. Range 129 will open eventually with a 100 yard indoor range. Shooters is 100 yards I think.

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What range do you want to shoot the rifle to? And just paper or looking for some sort of other use?

Longer range... you can use .223/5.56mm. I have one AR setup for past the red-dot range, but if I’m shooting for precision, I prefer a heavier bullet than what .223/5.56mm offers. Closer in, I’m more willing to go lighter. That is why my scoped AR has a 1.5-6x scope, and my .308 Remington has a 4.5-14x scope.

Nobody would rather be shot with either, but the same wind is going to move a 168 grain .308 less than a 75 grain .223. I am not a fan of jumping into 6.5mm straight out the gate, as prices do jump up... but it is a superior cartridge than both (and still short action, like .308). My next precision rifle will likely be 6.5mm Creedmoor. Learning wind, especially reading it, you’ll get a lot less frustrated with a .308 than a .223. Not that a .308 isn’t effected by wind... just not as much. That could result in seeing the bullet impact one edge of the paper, thus being able to correct/understand what happened, over completely missing and scratching your head on why. Again, less of an issue closer in.

Depending on likely range/use, I would suggest either a .223 or .308. If wind is something you are going to face, especially if you want to go further out... I’d lean .308. If your long range can be done with a red-dot or even iron sights (even if you are choosing not to), .223 will be more economic.

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On 10/24/2018 at 5:37 PM, Zeke said:

@Greenday I believe the mosberg scout type riffle doesn’t have great reviews. The ruger seems the better of the 2

+1 on the Mossberg MVP Patrol being somewhat of a clunker. I tried one out when I was looking for a "practical" type .223/5.56 bolt action and hated every minute with that gun. The overall quality has a relatively flimsy feel to it and the action itself leaves a lot to be desired. I never tried out the .223 Ruger Scout but I did have the .308 Scout for about awhile until I sold it recently. The quality of the Ruger is what you'd expect from Ruger but it was a beast in terms of weight. I could never get used to the long-eye relief scope on the scout mount, so I ended up dropping another $100 or so to replace that with a full length rail and a standard mounted 1-6x.

To the OP, spend some time figuring out exactly what you want to do with the rifle before you dive in. If you just want to plink out to 200 yards or so and not spend too much money (and be able to shoot .223 and 5.56) then the Mossberg or Ruger may be the right option for you, but I would try out both before you buy. Otherwise, If you want to keep the AR ergonomics (and be able to shoot .223 and 5.56) then maybe consider the idea of building or buying a straight-pull version with a .223 Wylde chamber.

Just an idea for you to consider:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/09/29/potd-ar-15-inspired-cousins-across-pond/ 

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7 minutes ago, medved11 said:

+1 on the Mossberg MVP Patrol being somewhat of a clunker. I tried one out when I was looking for a "practical" type .223/5.56 bolt action and hated every minute with that gun. The overall quality has a relatively flimsy feel to it and the action itself leaves a lot to be desired. I never tried out the .223 Ruger Scout but I did have the .308 Scout for about awhile until I sold it recently. The quality of the Ruger is what you'd expect from Ruger but it was a beast in terms of weight. I could never get used to the long-eye relief scope on the scout mount, so I ended up dropping another $100 or so to replace that with a full length rail and a standard mounted 1-6x.

To the OP, spend some time figuring out exactly what you want to do with the rifle before you dive in. If you just want to plink out to 200 yards or so and not spend too much money (and be able to shoot .223 and 5.56) then the Mossberg or Ruger may be the right option for you, but I would try out both before you buy. Otherwise, If you want to keep the AR ergonomics (and be able to shoot .223 and 5.56) then maybe consider the idea of building or buying a straight-pull version with a .223 Wylde chamber.

Just an idea for you to consider:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/09/29/potd-ar-15-inspired-cousins-across-pond/ 

Isn’t the big problem with ruger propriety mags? Or am I mistaken.

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7 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Isn’t the big problem with ruger propriety mags? Or am I mistaken.

The Ruger Scout takes AICS pattern single stack magazines which are a real pain for .308 due to the length. The saving grace for the .308 version is that you can use Magpul poly AICS mags.

The AICS mags for .223 are actually the same .308 magazines with an insert fitted inside the frame to hold the smaller cartridge and are very expensive for what they are (around $70/per mag). MDT is now making polymer AICS mags in .223 which are significantly less expensive - I just bought a few recently and haven't tried them out though.

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2 minutes ago, medved11 said:

The Ruger Scout takes AICS pattern single stack magazines which are a real pain for .308 due to the length. The saving grace for the .308 version is that you can use Magpul poly AICS mags.

The AICS mags for .223 are actually the same .308 magazines with an insert fitted inside the frame to hold the smaller cartridge and are very expensive for what they are (around $70/per mag). MDT is now making polymer AICS mags in .223 - I just bought a few recently and haven't tried them out though.

The rpr takes standard mags though? But a big difference in price

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Just now, Zeke said:

The rpr takes standard mags though? But a big difference in price

The .223 RPR also takes AICS pattern mags but Ruger gives you the polymer version for that rifle (they probably give you the same mags for the .223 Scout as well I imagine). Speaking of which, that would also be a great option for the OP if he wants to just dip his toe into the .223 precision gun world. As of a few months ago, CDNN was practically giving away the last of the Gen 2 (keymod) .223 RPRs for around $800. That's a great option since it can handle .223 and 5.56 according to Ruger and there is a ton of aftermarket support 

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1 hour ago, Greenday said:

I was thinking of going to Shooters tomorrow to actually check out some of the Rugers in person. They have a Ruger American in .223 18" for $439.99 or the Ruger American Ranch in 5.56 for $477.99. 

Those are not the best prices but not bad.  If you like what you see buy it and don't worry about the 25 or 50 dollars you could save.

I say this with the opinion that Shooters is usually overpriced IMO.

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Those are not the best prices but not bad.  If you like what you see buy it and don't worry about the 25 or 50 dollars you could save.
I say this with the opinion that Shooters is usually overpriced IMO.
I've noticed their prices are slightly higher but they seem to have the biggest selection around.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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On the off chance anyone cares, I'm picking up the last Ruger American Ranch in 5.56 that they have. Now I just need to get a scope for it because I don't think my red dot/3X magnifier won't do it at longer ranges.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, Greenday said:

On the off chance anyone cares, I'm picking up the last Ruger American Ranch in 5.56 that they have. Now I just need to get a scope for it because I don't think my red dot/3X magnifier won't do it at longer ranges.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

Good choice IMO.  Your red dot and 3x should be able to deliver 1-2" groups at 100 yds with most 55 gr ammo.  Don't get wrapped up in gadgets.  Work on your skill.

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5 hours ago, Greenday said:

On the off chance anyone cares, I'm picking up the last Ruger American Ranch in 5.56 that they have. Now I just need to get a scope for it because I don't think my red dot/3X magnifier won't do it at longer ranges.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

For what it's worth, I put a cheap ($120) Bushnell scope on my Ruger Mini-14 and I'm very happy with it.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-ar-optics-3-9x40-riflescope-w-bdc-reticle-matte-black.html

Works for me out to 300 yards and hold zero well.

 

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33 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

For what it's worth, I put a cheap ($120) Bushnell scope on my Ruger Mini-14 and I'm very happy with it.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-ar-optics-3-9x40-riflescope-w-bdc-reticle-matte-black.html

Works for me out to 300 yards and hold zero well.

 

That was along my line of thinking. I don't need something that is like 20X, will have adjustments that will move my aim 1mm at 500 yards, etc.

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6 hours ago, Greenday said:

On the off chance anyone cares, I'm picking up the last Ruger American Ranch in 5.56 that they have. Now I just need to get a scope for it because I don't think my red dot/3X magnifier won't do it at longer ranges.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

Congrats on your purchase. Enjoy it.  While I’m sure everyone has an opinion on optics, check out Vortex.  I think I put a 3-9x40 on mine (I forget if it was from their Viper or Diamondback line).  As was said above, don’t get fancy. Focus on skill.  

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7 hours ago, Greenday said:

On the off chance anyone cares, I'm picking up the last Ruger American Ranch in 5.56 that they have. Now I just need to get a scope for it because I don't think my red dot/3X magnifier won't do it at longer ranges.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

Look at you with a big boy gun!

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It's glorious! Feels so comfortable, can't wait to get it to the range.

Didn't get a scope yet. Chatting with the guy there left me with some things to ponder. I said I was looking to spend less than $200 on a scope (which is silly considering I spent more than that for my .22lr). We went over a few and he mentioned that $200 is really the line where things can drastically improve. Was checking out a Nikon 4-12x40 that was selling for $250 (Just found it for $219 on Amazon 2 day shipping with Prime). Seems like a solid deal.

Then comes ammo. One site said use 5.56 to zero the scope, then .223 for target practice. Woman at the shop said the type of 5.56 really doesn't make a difference. Suggestions?

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