THIRD CIRCUIT DENIES INJUNCTION IN MAG BAN CASE 2 DAYS AFTER PAPERS SUBMITTED

[PDM 91]

Time to mix the epoxy...

[capt14k 2,052]

Time to mix the epoxy...

Or refuse to comply


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[Sniper 6,372]

On 10/13/2018 at 2:50 PM, Combat Auto said:

I was surprised about the "only one expert approach" on our side also. Apparently, the "law" is somewhat subjective (like it or not), flooding the "zone" would be better I believe.

Following the "flooding the zone" analogy... were there any other groups that got behind this lawsuit besides ANJRPC? I don't remember seeing any like:

• Republican lawmakers in the state (don't they support the Constitution)?
• The PBA and other LEO associations (since the mag law affected LEO mag capacity too)?
• Firearm manufacturers and suppliers?
• Other 2A groups like GOA?
• Other 2A lawyers besides the ones working for ANJRPC?
• Actual LEOs that provide first hand experience?
• Opposites of "Moms Demanding Action Groups"?
• Others?

In planning for war, you ALWAYS want to rush your opponent with overwhelming force, but in this case, it doesn't appear that it was handled that way. What am I missing?

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

15 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

• The PBA and other LEO associations (since the mag law affected LEO mag capacity too)?

They are exempt.............

 

 

[capt14k 2,052]

Following the "flooding the zone" analogy... were there any other groups that got behind this lawsuit besides ANJRPC? I don't remember seeing any like:

• Republican lawmakers in the state (don't they support the Constitution)?
• The PBA and other LEO associations (since the mag law affected LEO mag capacity too)?
• Firearm manufacturers and suppliers?
• Other 2A groups like GOA?
• Other 2A lawyers besides the ones working for ANJRPC?
• Actual LEOs that provide first hand experience?
• Opposites of "Moms Demanding Action Groups"?
• Others?

In planning for war, you ALWAYS want to rush your opponent with overwhelming force, but in this case, it doesn't appear that it was handled that way. What am I missing?

Most Republican lawmakers in NJ were raised in NJ and are RINOS to the core. With that comes being an Anti. See Chris Smith.

Most NJ LEOS were also raised in NJ so they too are Antis. They also like that they get special treatment under the law so they aren't rocking the boat.

GOA and SAP have written NJ off.

Does ANJRPC really want to win? Where else would Scott Bach get $500k job? Bob's Little Sport Shop and other NJ FFL's benefit from the changes in the law. Who are the people in charge of ANJRPC? FFLs. They will do just enough to keep the donations rolling in.

That is exactly what we need a new group with new leadership not tied to the NRA. See Missouri and other states. Rosey does a great job at what he is trying to do. He is playing the long game. Convert Antis to shooters. Spread shooting sports. We need a group to play the short game and not compromise. A group that would have done something for 8 years instead of fear upsetting Christie. A group without FFLs in leadership roles.



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[Sniper 6,372]

3 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

They are exempt.............

 

 

Only ON duty, not OFF duty..

¹[3.    (New section)     Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:39-6, a law enforcement officer may possess and carry while on duty a large capacity ammunition magazine and possess and carry while off duty a large capacity ammunition magazine which is capable of holding up to 15 rounds of ammunition that can be fed continuously and directly into a semi-automatic firearm.]¹

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

15 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Only ON duty, not OFF duty..

¹[3.    (New section)     Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:39-6, a law enforcement officer may possess and carry while on duty a large capacity ammunition magazine and possess and carry while off duty a large capacity ammunition magazine which is capable of holding up to 15 rounds of ammunition that can be fed continuously and directly into a semi-automatic firearm.]¹

 

It's says they are exempt from the NEW law off duty. So nothing changes for them.

[mustang69 505]

57 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Only ON duty, not OFF duty..

¹[3.    (New section)     Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:39-6, a law enforcement officer may possess and carry while on duty a large capacity ammunition magazine and possess and carry while off duty a large capacity ammunition magazine which is capable of holding up to 15 rounds of ammunition that can be fed continuously and directly into a semi-automatic firearm.]¹

 

The way I read that, LEO are permitted to carry any size mag ON duty and are limited to 15-rounders OFF duty...

[Sniper 6,372]

2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

It's says they are exempt from the NEW law off duty.

Go back and read it again, I highlighted the operative words.

1 hour ago, mustang69 said:

The way I read that, LEO are permitted to carry any size mag ON duty and are limited to 15-rounders OFF duty...

That's the way I read it too.

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 hour ago, Sniper22 said:

Go back and read it again, I highlighted the operative words.

That's the way I read it too.

 

So they are exempt off duty, just limited to 15. Hasn't it been that way for them though?

[BobA 1,235]

Are you guys serious?  Are they going to lock each other up over it?  Are we even going to hear about an officer having a 15 round over a 10? 

[voyager9 3,433]

Just now, BobA said:

Are you guys serious?  Are they going to lock each other up over it?  Are we even going to hear about an officer having a 15 round over a 10? 

Well, no. Because officers are exempt and allowed to have 15’s. 

[Sniper 6,372]

1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

So they are exempt off duty, just limited to 15. Hasn't it been that way for them though?

But they weren't limited to 15 before the new law took effect.

I remember a local LEO during the CCW class I took saying, "Only you (meaning me) are limited to 15, we can carry what ever we want".

37 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Well, no. Because officers are exempt and allowed to have 15’s. 

But before, they could carry what ever the max their gun held, 17, 19, whatever.... now their max is 15, which means all their Glock 17s and 19s and what ever hi cap mags need to be modified to 15. Even long guns.

Of course, the odds are they won't do it or get checked by their buddies, but if any of us gets nailed for 15, turn around is fair play.

 

[reloaderguy 30]

On 10/13/2018 at 11:15 AM, myhatinthering said:

you have it wrong, his rationale is admitted bias is going to make for an overturn in the higher courts.  The worst thing these libs could do is have this go to higher federal courts to be struck down.  They have overplayed their hand.

 

I commend the groups fighting this, need to donate more

You mean give less or nothing at all. I commend them for nothing! They lose every case!

 

[reloaderguy 30]

On 10/12/2018 at 5:46 PM, silverado427 said:

And this mean's what. ? 

That ANJRPC is worthless and should not get a dime more of our money. They couldn't win a case if their life depended on it!

[Combat Auto 174]

7 hours ago, reloaderguy said:

That ANJRPC is worthless and should not get a dime more of our money. They couldn't win a case if their life depended on it!

So you feel you should provide this "Sage-Advise" because you know better than all the many people who are donating...And you feel that doing nothing is better than doing something...And you want to make it even easier for The-Lefty to screw us, by doing nothing...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not this naive, but rather you are getting some bad advice from someone in the Murphy's administration. Your word's of "wisdom" can only come from the same group of people who are working to make NJ a full Sanctuary-State.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

17 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

They are exempt.............

 

 

i think that exemption only covers their service weapon.....

[1LtCAP 4,262]

17 hours ago, capt14k said:

Most Republican lawmakers in NJ were raised in NJ and are RINOS to the core. With that comes being an Anti. See Chris Smith.

Most NJ LEOS were also raised in NJ so they too are Antis. They also like that they get special treatment under the law so they aren't rocking the boat.

GOA and SAP have written NJ off.

Does ANJRPC really want to win? Where else would Scott Bach get $500k job? Bob's Little Sport Shop and other NJ FFL's benefit from the changes in the law. Who are the people in charge of ANJRPC? FFLs. They will do just enough to keep the donations rolling in.

That is exactly what we need a new group with new leadership not tied to the NRA. See Missouri and other states. Rosey does a great job at what he is trying to do. He is playing the long game. Convert Antis to shooters. Spread shooting sports. We need a group to play the short game and not compromise. A group that would have done something for 8 years instead of fear upsetting Christie. A group without FFLs in leadership roles.



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didn't one of the nj groups have some sort of backdoor deal with sweeny recently? one that they kept telling us here that they couldn't talk much about?

[capt14k 2,052]

didn't one of the nj groups have some sort of backdoor deal with sweeny recently? one that they kept telling us here that they couldn't talk much about?

 

That was Anthony and ANJRPC. Worked out great didn't it? My guess is the only reason we didn't get the new AWB is the same reason there are exceptions for FFL03 and semis that can't be converted to 10 rounds. A collector has pull. He didn't want his Bayonet lugs messed with.

 

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[reloaderguy 30]

1 hour ago, Combat Auto said:

So you feel you should provide this "Sage-Advise" because you know better than all the many people who are donating...And you feel that doing nothing is better than doing something...And you want to make it even easier for The-Lefty to screw us, by doing nothing...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not this naive, but rather you are getting some bad advice from someone in the Murphy's administration. Your word's of "wisdom" can only come from the same group of people who are working to make NJ a full Sanctuary-State.

You must have just moved to New Jersey snowflake if you think anything is going to change. I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. Just keep throwing your money at losing organizations and I'll keep standing by laughing. Your energy would be better spent planining your move out of this state like a lot of us are.

[Combat Auto 174]

1 minute ago, reloaderguy said:

You must have just moved to New Jersey snowflake if you think anything is going to change. I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. Just keep throwing your money at losing organizations and I'll keep standing by laughing. Your energy would be better spent planining your move out of this state like a lot of us are.

Yea, good idea, maybe if we ignore The-Lefty they will just go away and leave us alone. You probably don't vote either. The usual attitude for "success" some people have, do nothing, but bitch and complain about those people and organizations who try to do something. 

[Sniper 6,372]

9 hours ago, reloaderguy said:

That ANJRPC is worthless and should not get a dime more of our money. They couldn't win a case if their life depended on it!

From my limited time I've been paying attention, it almost seems that way. Have we ever won any fight?

Along those lines, why hasn't ANJRPC planned a big rally to get all gun owners protesting and marching on Trenton right before these upcoming midterms. Wouldn't thousands of gun owners, holding 15 round magazines high in the air get some attention by the politicians up for re-election?

Has anything like this been proposed by any of the 2A groups, or are they just going to roll over and take it up the ass without lube come December.....  again...?

 

[siderman 1,137]

23 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

From my limited time I've been paying attention, it almost seems that way. Have we ever won any fight?

Afaik this is the first time they have bought a lawsuit against the state. Not much to brag about there. Pathetic actually....But they've been pretty successful on the local levels, Operation Strikeforce for example which went after towns requiring extra pprwrk and other un-required docs to obtain fpid's and pistol permits. This is just my opinion but I don't believe ANJRPC was ever meant to be a staunch fighter for 2A rights but more a Chamber of Commerce type entity for the shooting sports. Was most likely run by fudds most of its existance and is reluctantly just recently stepping into the real world of the 2A but unfortunately too late for NJ. In a state that has little if any gun culture, heavy on the lib agenda and stuck inside a judiciary that is a product of those aspects it's a wonder anything gets done. I can't realistically expect any 2A success until we get national/scotus attention. ANJRPC is our biggest, wealthiest, most organized group and best hope, such as it is. 

[Malice4you 627]

31 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

From my limited time I've been paying attention, it almost seems that way. Have we ever won any fight?

Along those lines, why hasn't ANJRPC planned a big rally to get all gun owners protesting and marching on Trenton right before these upcoming midterms. Wouldn't thousands of gun owners, holding 15 round magazines high in the air get some attention by the politicians up for re-election?

Has anything like this been proposed by any of the 2A groups, or are they just going to roll over and take it up the ass without lube come December.....  again...?

 

Having been to the last 2 rallys, these "thousands" would be hard to pull off. With months of prep, and lots of volunteers and money, maybe thousands are possible, but then again, any time any organization does something, someone is still unhappy.

"You ignored the collectors!"

"You didn't burn an effigy of ___politician!"

"I didn't get a shirt!"

"There wasn't any catering!"

"You did X, I'm an expert and you shoulda done Y."

"You should have held it on [any other day]"

"I didn't actually do shit, and sat home, because nothing ever gets done in NJ, but that's not about to stop me from bitching about everything you volunteers did wrong!"

 

[Sniper 6,372]

27 minutes ago, Malice4you said:

Having been to the last 2 rallys, these "thousands" would be hard to pull off. With months of prep, and lots of volunteers and money, maybe thousands are possible, but then again, any time any organization does something, someone is still unhappy.

Why would it be hard to pull off?

The Antifa crew and Soros crew can rally their base and get them on buses to protest in a few hours notice through social media.

Would we need to pay our protestors too?

I was trying to find an accurate number of how many gun owners are in the state. It's a tough number to find. A few sources said 11%. So, if there's 8 million in the state, does that make 800,000 gun owners?

It's also been said that 3% involvement can make a difference (remember the American Revolution). So 3% of 800,000 would be 24,000. If only 1% showed up and 99% stayed home and sat on their asses, that would be 8,000. 8,000 marching on Trenton, waving 15 rounds mags, would make a statement, wouldn't it?

The 2A groups can't muster together 1% of gun owners in the state? That's really sad....

 

[10X 3,296]

7 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

The Antifa crew and Soros crew can rally their base and get them on buses to protest in a few hours notice through social media.

Well, there is the assumption that more of their base isn't working day jobs, and so are more available.   There may also be something to the belief that the left follows orders better than the right, and will just show up where they are told.  I don't personally believe that the protesters are generally getting paid, but the organizers are, and that's enough to make a big difference.

I think that to really rally their base, the best approach would be to hire a few good computer hackers to crash the sites for Fortnight, Overwatch, Netflix, Pornhub, etc   That would really get the blue wave lumbering out of basements across America.

[Malice4you 627]

Because too many gun owners in this state are self centered, don't care, fudds, rinos, leaving NJ, too far away, don't want anyone to know they have guns, etc etc etc.

What percentage of gun owners in NJ have either one gun theyve shot once ever for home defence, and/or what percentage are fudds who don't care long as their wood shotguns/rifles are not affected?

Furthermore, what percentage of people in this state do not even know they are less than 2 months away from being felons in NJ because of their 15 rd mags?

This place, a few facebook groups, nj hunters forum, reddit nj guns, and maybe a few small other groups are likely the main NJ gun community, and even then it is all fractured because of infighting. NJ does not have a pro gun mentality. Then organizing those people is like herding cats.

Getting 8000 people who work and are responsible and have lives will take serious dedication and effort and results will still likely be subpar.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

16 minutes ago, Malice4you said:

Furthermore, what percentage of people in this state do not even know they are less than 2 months away from being felons in NJ because of their 15 rd mags?

 

i'd say the vast majority. 2 of my leo friends...one in lawnside, one's a camden county cop......neither one of em knew about this till i told em

 

[Sniper 6,372]

1 hour ago, Malice4you said:

Getting 8000 people who work and are responsible and have lives will take serious dedication and effort and results will still likely be subpar.

 

[Sniper 6,372]

1 hour ago, Malice4you said:

Furthermore, what percentage of people in this state do not even know they are less than 2 months away from being felons in NJ because of their 15 rd mags?

Tons... thousands... and they will all be going to the range with their 15 rounders next year, still clueless...

59 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

i'd say the vast majority. 2 of my leo friends...one in lawnside, one's a camden county cop......neither one of em knew about this till i told em

So, what will the LEOs do, bring in a corrections office bus and take people out of the range by the busload because they're possessing 15 rounders come January and are felons?