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slickskin

FID card eligibility

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It's unfortunate, but doctors in general tend to be opposed to firearms. Not all of course, but a few years back I read a report about  this very thing. 

One of the others (jackdawack)  mentioned just asking if doc considered you a threat to yourself or others, without using the "g" word. I think that idea has a lot of merit.

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1 hour ago, 345Sire said:

It's unfortunate, but doctors in general tend to be opposed to firearms. Not all of course, but a few years back I read a report about  this very thing. 

One of the others (jackdawack)  mentioned just asking if doc considered you a threat to yourself or others, without using the "g" word. I think that idea has a lot of merit.

So true.

However a couple of my doctors I go to talk 5 minutes about my medical issue and a half hour about guns.

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5 hours ago, 345Sire said:

It's unfortunate, but doctors in general tend to be opposed to firearms. Not all of course, but a few years back I read a report about  this very thing. 

One of the others (jackdawack)  mentioned just asking if doc considered you a threat to yourself or others, without using the "g" word. I think that idea has a lot of merit.

What's unfortunate is how the state of New Jersey apparently doesn't respect the 2nd amendment or Hippa. In about 46 other states as long as you weren't forcibly committed or a felon you are eligible your doctor isn't part of the process. I think it is safe to put no for that question should I choose to apply because it asks if I've ever been treated in a hospital or mental institution and I haven't. I don't think seeing a general practitioner for medication or a counselor at my own volition for medication, which is actually extremely common is what they're asking about or a problem. Maybe I'll ask a lawyer who is more familiar with NJ laws.

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I think it is safe to put no for that question should I choose to apply because it asks if I've ever been treated in a hospital or mental institution and I haven't. I don't think seeing a general practitioner for medication or a counselor at my own volition for medication, which is actually extremely common is what they're asking about or a problem. Maybe I'll ask a lawyer who is more familiar with NJ laws.

 

While I feel for you, the question on the application is not the same as a 4473... it doesn’t just ask about being committed or labeled “mentally defective.” For that, with what you stated, I would feel you answering no would be fine (didn’t meet any parts of that specific question). The application question specifically includes “treated by a doctor” for a “mental or psychiatric condition.” I’m not up on what social anxiety is... as it has been a few years since I took a psychology class... but I do believe it is included in that description.

 

Whether or not it is common, you have to look at that question and see if it applies. From what you posted, I view it does. If you try to twist it and answer no... that could jam you up if it is found out, and as mentioned, it is a third degree crime. That is a felony, which is a question on the 4473, as well. It is illegal for a felon to possess a firearm... and that sticks with you for life (also have to put it on future job applications, which most employers likely won’t appreciate a charge regarding lying on a government form).

 

Speaking with a firearms lawyer isn’t a bad idea, but asking the NJSP about it isn’t a bad thing. Don’t know if the Firearms Unit has an email... if you don’t feel comfortable calling about it, but just asking a question isn’t going to put you on a watch list. Just give a general description of the situation, and ask if choosing yes on that application question is an automatic denial. If not, how is it reviewed? I can’t see it never coming up on their end.

 

Again, this is probably as much information as you are going to get from us regarding this, unless someone comes in and was in a similar boat. I do hope you get good news from either of those sources (NJSP or lawyer), and keep us posted on what is stated. People might see this, feeling worried about that question, and never attempt to apply for a FID. If it is positive or negative, at least it will give some insight into it.

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48 minutes ago, Screwball said:

 

People might see this, feeling worried about that question, and never attempt to apply for a FID. If it is positive or negative, at least it will give some insight into it.

I have a hunch that's exactly what they want. The whole process is to discourage you. They use vague wording that's not clearly defined so you don't know exactly what they're even asking and then use words like "felony" like you just did to scare you out of applying. A felony for trying to access your second amendment rights and making a simple mistake on that form when the entire permit is unconstitutional and against the hippa acts. sheesh, it would be easier to just move to a better  state and then only have to fill out the 4473 for nics, but then they sort of win. :/

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I have a hunch that's exactly what they want. The whole process is to discourage you. They use vague wording that's not clearly defined so you don't know exactly what they're even asking and then use words like "felony" like you just did to scare you out of applying. A felony for trying to access your second amendment rights and making a simple mistake on that form when the entire permit is unconstitutional and against the hippa acts. sheesh, it would be easier to just move to a better  state and then only have to fill out the 4473 for nics, but then they sort of win. :/


Ok... going to be my last post in this thread, because it is moving to a discussion that really isn’t what you originally asked for. But I do want to clear up some stuff.

Whether or not the FID system is constitutional, it is the current law within the state of NJ. It sucks, but if you want to buy a firearm here, you need to comply with that. If it gets ruled as unconstitutional, then things will change. Until a case gets to that level where it can be decided on, it isn’t going anywhere. You likely aren’t going to see pro-gun change (within NJ) in the near future, with how elected officials are stacking up. Definitely not going to change in one election cycle.

For the process being made to discourage you... welcome to what NJ gun owners have faced for years. We have to do that initial application/finger printing for our FID, and then an application for each set of pistol permits you get after that (including my FID, which I got at 18, I might have submitted six to eight applications over the years). Used to be able to fill as many pistol permits as quickly as you wanted, as long as they didn’t expire... then it changed to one pistol a month (limiting total number you can acquire within the time limit... 180 days max). If you go shooting with a pistol, cannot go out to eat with friends afterwards, as you must take the pistol straight home; same goes for long guns unless you have a FID. List goes on and on... and it really doesn’t get better as time passes. But plenty of people here went through it, myself included.

In regards to felonies... lying on that application is a felony. No question about it. You sign right above where it states that for a reason. That isn’t a simple mistake, especially with your last few posts and then looking at the differences with the thread that PK90 mentioned (you can answer no to question 24, but you’ve stated as much that question 26 should be a yes). Lying on my e-QIP/background for CBP is also a felony... and it was made clear while I was doing it, as well as when I released it to the agency. I didn’t because I am not tossing my career/life away over it. There was also a part on the FFL-03 application that said similar, where lying on that form is illegal (any government form like that is going to likely have something similar). Nobody is using that to scare you... but if you are going to lie on that question, you should be aware of the repercussions and the likelihood that it will be uncovered by the mental health records release that you provide with the application. If you took that as me scaring you, I’ll apologize for that... as it was not my intention.

That being said, personally... I really don’t care if you go for your FID or not. I’m out of NJ in April, unless another job comes up sooner. I would like to see more gun owners/FID holders, as it makes the gun community stronger. But you are not going to see me suggest anything illegal or tell you that you should answer no to a question that you should answer yes. Don’t think any member here will suggest that. All I recommended was to contact NJSP, and see what a yes for that question entails. Again, if you want to argue the constitutionality of it... you can, but that means you aren’t looking for assistance with your situation. I’m not going to sit here and argue it either... especially since I agree (which doesn’t change the law).

Best of luck with whatever route you decide.
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9 hours ago, GRIZ said:

So true.

However a couple of my doctors I go to talk 5 minutes about my medical issue and a half hour about guns.

You have some great doctors, I think, in that regard. I bet they came here from a state where people have gun racks in the rear window of their pickup trucks! ;)

It's interesting that they have/find the time to expend on such topics in this day of pushing to see as many patients as possible per day. 

Hey, maybe pass their office phone number to the OP here? Docs love getting referrals, don't they?

 

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5 hours ago, slickskin said:

What's unfortunate is how the state of New Jersey apparently doesn't respect the 2nd amendment or Hippa. In about 46 other states as long as you weren't forcibly committed or a felon you are eligible your doctor isn't part of the process. I think it is safe to put no for that question should I choose to apply because it asks if I've ever been treated in a hospital or mental institution and I haven't. I don't think seeing a general practitioner for medication or a counselor at my own volition for medication, which is actually extremely common is what they're asking about or a problem. Maybe I'll ask a lawyer who is more familiar with NJ laws.

Look up Evan Nappen, his office handles matters of firearm laws for lots of folks in New Jerksey. 

Not tying to push anything but U.S. Lawshield members are able to ask questions like this of the lawyers involved.

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On 10/22/2018 at 4:46 PM, slickskin said:

It's alright if the answers aren't ones I want to hear. That's why I'm asking so I know if I'm eligible before applying. If it's really that much of a problem that I take medication for anxiety and talk to someone about how I was in a relationship that didn't go well than it's disappointing but yes it's not the end of the world. I can wait until I move to another state where I would pass a background check easily and not be discriminated against or need to sign forms for my private medical file to be released.

If anything they should be more concerned about people that DON'T get treatment if they've ever been in a rough time lol. Silly New Jersey haha. 

1. Anxiety does not prohibit you.
2. Talking to a mental health professional about previous a relationship would not prohibit you.

 

 

 

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BTW i know someone who is on medication for anxiety and also regularly visited a mental heath professional and was NOT denied an FID and passed nics.

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4 hours ago, remixer said:

1. Anxiety does not prohibit you.
2. Talking to a mental health professional about previous a relationship would not prohibit you.

 

 

 

I would think but it's New Jersey. When someone suggested I get a letter from a doctor that just says I'm not a danger to myself or others they would agree with that but it would be hard to bring up with them without using the "G" word. Also, if a police department I was filing for an FID card did that they'd also use the "G" word so I don't see how you get that without the doctor knowing what's going on... unless I was to see another doctor I never met before for an evaluation to get such forms. I admit though I'm leaning towards this whole process not being worth it if it's that much work.

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8 hours ago, Screwball said:

 


Ok... going to be my last post in this thread, because it is moving to a discussion that really isn’t what you originally asked for. But I do want to clear up some stuff.

Whether or not the FID system is constitutional, it is the current law within the state of NJ. It sucks, but if you want to buy a firearm here, you need to comply with that. If it gets ruled as unconstitutional, then things will change. Until a case gets to that level where it can be decided on, it isn’t going anywhere. You likely aren’t going to see pro-gun change (within NJ) in the near future, with how elected officials are stacking up. Definitely not going to change in one election cycle.

For the process being made to discourage you... welcome to what NJ gun owners have faced for years. We have to do that initial application/finger printing for our FID, and then an application for each set of pistol permits you get after that (including my FID, which I got at 18, I might have submitted six to eight applications over the years). Used to be able to fill as many pistol permits as quickly as you wanted, as long as they didn’t expire... then it changed to one pistol a month (limiting total number you can acquire within the time limit... 180 days max). If you go shooting with a pistol, cannot go out to eat with friends afterwards, as you must take the pistol straight home; same goes for long guns unless you have a FID. List goes on and on... and it really doesn’t get better as time passes. But plenty of people here went through it, myself included.

In regards to felonies... lying on that application is a felony. No question about it. You sign right above where it states that for a reason. That isn’t a simple mistake, especially with your last few posts and then looking at the differences with the thread that PK90 mentioned (you can answer no to question 24, but you’ve stated as much that question 26 should be a yes). Lying on my e-QIP/background for CBP is also a felony... and it was made clear while I was doing it, as well as when I released it to the agency. I didn’t because I am not tossing my career/life away over it. There was also a part on the FFL-03 application that said similar, where lying on that form is illegal (any government form like that is going to likely have something similar). Nobody is using that to scare you... but if you are going to lie on that question, you should be aware of the repercussions and the likelihood that it will be uncovered by the mental health records release that you provide with the application. If you took that as me scaring you, I’ll apologize for that... as it was not my intention.

That being said, personally... I really don’t care if you go for your FID or not. I’m out of NJ in April, unless another job comes up sooner. I would like to see more gun owners/FID holders, as it makes the gun community stronger. But you are not going to see me suggest anything illegal or tell you that you should answer no to a question that you should answer yes. Don’t think any member here will suggest that. All I recommended was to contact NJSP, and see what a yes for that question entails. Again, if you want to argue the constitutionality of it... you can, but that means you aren’t looking for assistance with your situation. I’m not going to sit here and argue it either... especially since I agree (which doesn’t change the law).

Best of luck with whatever route you decide.

 

I wouldn't intentionally commit a felony so no one has to worry about that. It honestly sounds like the laws are so strict and confusing with the wording and what is allowed and not allowed that many people could break a law here by accident, and you're right it's not worth potential consequences. The police should be understanding about that (after all they're gunowners themselves) but they might not be. So yeah, hopefully I'll get the opportunity for work or another reason to move to a nicer state and then this won't be an issue anymore. That's really the ideal situation even if I did have and FID card. And no worries, I guess there really isn't anything else you can tell me.

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BTW i know someone who is on medication for anxiety and also regularly visited a mental heath professional and was NOT denied an FID and passed nics.

 

Not to pry into it, but can you ask them about question 26 on the application?

 

If they answered yes, and got the FID, then that is ultimately the answer. Might want to see if they can help explain the situation, if they feel comfortable.

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1 minute ago, Screwball said:

 


Not to pry into it, but can you ask him about question 26 on the application?

If they answered yes, and got the FID, then that is ultimately the answer. Might want to see if they can help explain the situation, if they feel comfortable.

 

i can ask

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i am not a doctor, not a lawyer, but a self proclaimed mental health and rare disease advocate

On 10/22/2018 at 7:53 AM, 9X19 said:

Read your question again. You need to get off those meds and get your life in order before you ever consider owning a gun. That should be your first priority. Have you talked about this with your family?

 

This is where the stigma comes from. it also furthers things like you need to be a dem to be sick and a republican to own guns thing that ive been hitting on both sides. and thats not a shot at 9x19, but increasingly with me owning guns, and the kid being sick i have been basically been flat out told that neither party will work out for me

On 10/22/2018 at 5:11 PM, Screwball said:

 


It is more because of the stigma behind it. Me, personally... I don’t trust anyone less because of it (like you said, rather them get help than it progressing further). But for 10,000 people that just talk, you get that one person that shoots up a school... which is similar to generalizing that guns cause crime.
 

 

also generalizing here, but statistically, atleast in my interpenetration the ones who talk more are less likely to act, more likely to talk.

10 hours ago, slickskin said:

I have a hunch that's exactly what they want. The whole process is to discourage you. 

i concurr

 

4 hours ago, remixer said:

1. Anxiety does not prohibit you.
2. Talking to a mental health professional about previous a relationship would not prohibit you.

 

agreed

10 minutes ago, Screwball said:

Not to pry into it, but can you ask them about question 26 on the application?

If they answered yes, and got the FID, then that is ultimately the answer. Might want to see if they can help explain the situation, if they feel comfortable.

I know a few with FPIDs receiving help in some way shape or form, via counseling or prescriptions. 26 is intentionally confusing, and i am under the impression it has more to do with psych hold and less to do with you saw someone to talk or went to counseling with your wife etc. I believe in all cases they actually qualified to answer no, but i do not have specific proof or examples of who said what for what reasons to offer

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I called my contact at the NJSP to try and get this gentlemen the right info, BTW its a common question they answer.

 

Here are the answers

1. Marking YES on 26 DOES NOT PROHIBIT you from obtaining a firearm card or permits.


2. Marking YES only "Might" require you to obtain a letter from ANY NJ licensed doctor that you are not a danger.. It can be your family doctor, pediatrician any as long as they are licensed. Does NOT have to be the doctor treating you.

3. Marking NO but then the mental health check shows you are in treatment might be an issue

In regard to how you answer 26 they cant advise.   Has your treatment been reported or not... will it show up on a mental health report. etc etc

So i say check YES and just talk to your family doctor about a letter, the letter does not have to state its ok for you to own a gun... Just that you are NOT a dangerto yourself or anyone else.

I mentioned that when i was getting married years and years and years ago i had major anxiety and was given meds.. it never stopped me from becoming an FFL..

he LOL'd and said we might have to look into that :)

 

Hope this helped.

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8 hours ago, 345Sire said:

You have some great doctors, I think, in that regard. I bet they came here from a state where people have gun racks in the rear window of their pickup trucks! ;)

It's interesting that they have/find the time to expend on such topics in this day of pushing to see as many patients as possible per day. 

Hey, maybe pass their office phone number to the OP here? Docs love getting referrals, don't they?

 

Don't think a cardiologist or orthopod can help the OP.

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I know a few with FPIDs receiving help in some way shape or form, via counseling or prescriptions. 26 is intentionally confusing, and i am under the impression it has more to do with psych hold and less to do with you saw someone to talk or went to counseling with your wife etc. I believe in all cases they actually qualified to answer no, but i do not have specific proof or examples of who said what for what reasons to offer

 

I never said that people who go to counseling need to check yes on that question...

 

The question was quoted off the application in my first post in the thread (post 4). I selected it off the NJSP hosted document and copied/pasted.

 

Nowhere does it talk about counseling. Specifically, it asks about mental or psychiatric conditions. The part before goes into how you are treated. The first three past tense verbs (attended, treated or observed) could be used in any meeting with any medical professional... however, you must consider the “for any mental or psychiatric condition.”

 

Between the those two points, they list a few options. With how the sentence is setup, I see six variations...

 

-doctor

-psychiatrist

-hospital as inpatient

-hospital as outpatient

-mental institution as inpatient

-mental institution as outpatient

 

While it seems confusing, just plug in those three verbs, with those six variations, and add the “for any mental or psychiatric condition.” If you answer yes to any of those 18 combinations, put yes on the application. If all no, put no.

 

Sorry if anyone takes offense to that explanation (not saying anything about any person in this thread, just making sure it is clear), but that is a different question than 24, which is related to being confined/committed. If you answer yes to 24, does that mean you answer yes to 26? No idea, and isn’t the case for the OP.

 

As remixer nicely contacted the NJSP regarding this, any questions beyond all this should likely be asked to the NJSP. They are good people over there. And as stated, it is a common question.

 

For me, having done Federal and State background investigations (including a lengthy one for NJSP)... it is always recommended to give more than less. If you present it, you can always explain. If you don’t present it, and it is found during the investigation, you failed to be honest on the paperwork (not being sure might be a valid argument, but then they are going to ask why you didn’t ask for clarification; plus, they have the application with your signature on it in their possession). Signing a release for them to investigate your mental health records... I’d consider them having access to that information, so put it down.

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8 hours ago, 345Sire said:

Look up Evan Nappen, his office handles matters of firearm laws for lots of folks in New Jerksey. 

Not tying to push anything but U.S. Lawshield members are able to ask questions like this of the lawyers involved.

I'm not a fan of Evan Nappen.  However, I belong to US Lawshield as I was impressed by the lawyer who gave the presentation at my club.

You have to remember something about asking a lawyer abut a point of law or an opinion.  A point of law is pretty cut and dry.  An opinion, like carrying loaded magazines to the range, is just that.  No law or legal precedence.  Most attorneys will err on the side of caution when giving an opinion.  They don't want to say something that will get a client locked up.

A statement like, "I take meds for anxiety and see a physcholgist regularly" can run gamut from not a really a problem to just short of being committed to an institution.  Each case is different.  Medical professionals will have all kinds of opinions in between.

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4 hours ago, remixer said:

I called my contact at the NJSP to try and get this gentlemen the right info, BTW its a common question they answer.

 

Here are the answers

1. Marking YES on 26 DOES NOT PROHIBIT you from obtaining a firearm card or permits.


2. Marking YES only "Might" require you to obtain a letter from ANY NJ licensed doctor that you are not a danger.. It can be your family doctor, pediatrician any as long as they are licensed. Does NOT have to be the doctor treating you.

3. Marking NO but then the mental health check shows you are in treatment might be an issue

In regard to how you answer 26 they cant advise.   Has your treatment been reported or not... will it show up on a mental health report. etc etc

So i say check YES and just talk to your family doctor about a letter, the letter does not have to state its ok for you to own a gun... Just that you are NOT a dangerto yourself or anyone else.

I mentioned that when i was getting married years and years and years ago i had major anxiety and was given meds.. it never stopped me from becoming an FFL..

he LOL'd and said we might have to look into that :)

 

Hope this helped.

Thanks so much for asking for me. Did he say where exactly they get the records from during a mental health check? Do they have access to your whole entire medical history or only stuff that was a legal problem? Right, nothing would have been reported that I was a danger to myself or others since I never was. Also, a new question. Would it matter if the person was a minor under 18 at the time any of that happened or would the records be sealed/expunged automatically? 

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2 hours ago, Screwball said:

 

I never said that people who go to counseling need to check yes on that question...

Between the those two points, they list a few options. With how the sentence is setup, I see six variations...

 

-doctor

-psychiatrist

-hospital as inpatient

-hospital as outpatient

-mental institution as inpatient

-mental institution as outpatient

 

While it seems confusing, just plug in those three verbs, with those six variations, and add the “for any mental or psychiatric condition.” If you answer yes to any of those 18 combinations, put yes on the application. If all no, put no.

 

That's why it still doesn't feel like in my case I should have to put yes since it sounds like they ask hospital or mental institution on an inpatient or outpatient basis and not a private office which is not a hospital or institution for any medical or psychiatric condition. And I don't think having mild anxiety is a psychiatric condition. Can anyone honestly say they don't have that at one point or another? lol

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You are an adult and can make your own decision...

 

Do what you like, but remember what was stated about the release/application. Lying about something because you don’t want to check yes is a great way to go down the road of never being able to legally own a firearm because you have a felony on your record. That is way big of a risk when people have got their FID by being honest on that question (answering yes).

 

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/social-anxiety-disorder-more-than-just-shyness/508-social-anxiety-disorder_153750.pdf

 

Read the second page. And again, I have no dog in this fight. But when someone states they have social anxiety, and is prescribed medication for it, I would say it is a mental condition. The person you see for it is a doctor, right? Ask them. Very simple, and doesn’t go into the firearms discussion.

 

In regards to linking mental/psychiatric condition just to the hospital/mental institution in that question... I’m at a loss of words. Because if it isn’t applied to doctor or psychiatrist... EVERYONE WOULD HAVE TO PICK YES! We all have been treated by a doctor at some point in our lives... I go to an endocrinologist quarterly for Type 1 diabetes. I wouldn’t check yes on that question. The question is specifically asking about mental/psychiatric conditions. Sorry, but it is what it is.

 

Again, that isn’t a reason by itself to deny a FID... and there is nothing wrong that it is considered under that umbrella (mental condition). It doesn’t make you any less of a person, or someone that shouldn’t have the rights under the Second Amendment. It is just a question that lawmakers put on an application to make them feel better... but still something that needs to be answered truthfully (as with the rest of the application... would you put someone else’s name on it?). If you are still unsure on what to put, contact the NJSP and talk to the Firearms Unit. Can’t be clearer than that.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I see a lot of discrepancies from the earlier thread, to the beginning of this thread, and to where you are at now. Listen, I am not trying to put you down or judge you, but you are correct... everyone here deals with some sort of stress. Within the past year, my ex broke up with me within two weeks of proposing, after I applied for two positions, planning to have a life with her at one of them. However, being prescribed medication for it, while nothing is wrong with that (many people have), isn’t the same thing as saying we all are exposed to stress. Not trying to make myself seem any better, because I’m not, but I didn’t take any medication for that breakup... I put my head down and kicked ass to get myself ready for FLETC, losing almost 40 pounds since April. Others have their own ways for dealing with stress.

 

For your question about can anyone say they don’t have anxiety at one point... I can only say that I’m not prescribed medication for that. Went through multiple psychological tests for employment... and never was told I have any mental or psychiatric condition. That’s what the question asks... not if you ever dealt with stress.

 

Question 26 might touch on your situation, but it is attempting to find people that either don’t deal with stress in a productive way, or are a danger to themselves/others. It stinks that you were included in it, but if you aren’t in that small group, you are good to go (multiple people have stated people with similar situations to you have checked yes and received their FID).

 

Is your medication prescribed to you, and a common anxiety medication? People doing these investigations do them for a living. If your license can stop you from getting too much of certain over the counter medication... you don’t think people are going to see what medication has been prescribed, and by who? That is related to the release that accompanies the application.

 

If you decide that is me scaring you... I’ve moved past caring. I’m stating that because this is likely going to be a thread that people in a similar position are going to read for years to come (remember, the NJSP told remixer that it is a COMMON question), and I don’t want them to make a decision based on whatever rationale you are using (still don’t understand it, as you’ve been explained the question, repercussions for lying about it, and that people in a similar boat have received their FID by answering yes to it). There is no reason to lie for that question... especially if doing so can deny you from owning a firearm for the rest of your life. If you are considering going that route, might want to go back to PK90’s original suggestion...

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14 hours ago, slickskin said:

Thanks so much for asking for me. Did he say where exactly they get the records from during a mental health check? Do they have access to your whole entire medical history or only stuff that was a legal problem? Right, nothing would have been reported that I was a danger to myself or others since I never was. Also, a new question. Would it matter if the person was a minor under 18 at the time any of that happened or would the records be sealed/expunged automatically? 

From what i understand its County records. Not not entire medical history its strictly a mental health query. I would say you have nothing to lose. Just apply and check yes to 26  and prepare to get a letter from your  doctor that you are not a danger to yourself or others. If this is a case and your doctors not a complete anti i do not see an issue with them giving you this.

 

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I think the issue is this part in bold

Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist or (If this OR did not exist it would make it much more clear) at any hospital or mental institution on an inpatient or outpatient basis for any mental or psychiatric condition? If yes, give the name and location of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of such occurrence

 
14 hours ago, slickskin said:

And I don't think having mild anxiety is a psychiatric condition.

I agree 100% sort of...   I had Anxiety but it did not have a negative affect on me in regards to functioning daily. As i don't know your case you have to make that decision.

and the associations for mental health do consider it one...  they benefit for labeling it that... it also helps patients with insurance coverage .

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22 hours ago, Screwball said:

I never said that people who go to counseling need to check yes on that question...

didnt say that you did, was just attempting to add to the discussion, not dispute anything you said

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didnt say that you did, was just attempting to add to the discussion, not dispute anything you said


And I didn’t take it or mean it as such... sorry if it came off like that.

Used your post more of an example to explain that question (26) doesn’t matter about being committed/detained/whatever else. That is specifically covered in question 24.

I agree with you, in regards to counseling. If someone is talking through a rough patch in life, it isn’t applicable to that question. But when there is a diagnosis (associated with mental/psychiatric conditions), and medication is prescribed, that question should be answered yes. Doesn’t matter if they chose to expand it to also cover hospitals and mental institutions (which doesn’t necessarily mean someone was committed), treated by a doctor for any of those conditions.

It isn’t anything bad to be in that position. Like I said earlier, I think it is better to seek help when it is needed. But, if that is the case... there isn’t a need to come up with a stretched (and unrealistic) explanation of the question to put down no, possibly jamming yourself up, when you can answer yes and still get your FID.

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25 minutes ago, Screwball said:

And I didn’t take it or mean it as such... sorry if it came off like that.

 

yea, i went right to damnit what did i say now? 

its funny ive read and reread those questions many times, did it before responding the other day. when you look at 24 it says one thing, when you look at 26 it says one thing, its the 2 together that seem weird upon re reading again now.

maybe this is why im not a dr or a lawyer.

i would assume the driving factor of people not wanting to mark a yes there, is the same thing that keeps people from applying for ccw knowing they now have to check the denied box on a pistol permit application

 

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15 hours ago, remixer said:

From what i understand its County records. Not not entire medical history its strictly a mental health query. I would say you have nothing to lose. Just apply and check yes to 26  and prepare to get a letter from your  doctor that you are not a danger to yourself or others. If this is a case and your doctors not a complete anti i do not see an issue with them giving you this.

 

What can you do without an FID card? Can you take a firearms safety or training class? Can you rent a weapon for use at a shooting range? Are some weapons except from needing an FID card? Or is there nothing someone can do without the card until they move out of the state of New Jersey?

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On 10/22/2018 at 0:58 AM, slickskin said:

Hi, I've been considering applying for an FID card. I want to know if I'm eligible or not beforehand though. I know they make you sign a mental health release. Do they need to talk to your primary doctor?  Where exactly do they get these records from and how much is in them? The problem is I currently am prescribed medication to take for social anxiety, day to day stress, and to sleep and I also see a psychologist because I was in bad relationships. It's confusing because on the question because the way it's worded I don't know if they ask about stuff like that or only if I've been to a mental hospital, which I certainly haven't. Do they want to check out the other people that live in your household also?

No, they don't talk to your GP. How would they even know who they were? There's no database of such a thing for the police to search. Same with therapists. Unless you've been court ordered to a mental institution, there's no record for them to find.

No, they don't talk to people you live with (Which is scary because they should tbh). They ask for two references and that's it.

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12 minutes ago, Greenday said:

No, they don't talk to people you live with (Which is scary because they should tbh). They ask for two references and that's it.

A motor vehicle is a pretty damn efficient killing machine... and well, they don't talk to people you know before letting you drive a car! Look at the statistics... and you'll see that killings by legal gun owners are statistically rare. So I recommend you not spend any more time being concerned about things that rarely happen. 

Interesting fact, you're almost exactly as likely to die from a lightning strike as you are from a CCW holder shooting you... and only slightly more likely  that ANY legal gun owner kills you. It's just an uncommon event. So, my thoughts are... why ratchet up even more scrutiny/bureaucracy when it's such a statistical non-issue to begin with? It would make more sense to focus on better predictive analysis to determine which felons might re-offend, the creation of robust parole officer ranks, etc. Focus on where the lion's share of crime actually originates!

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