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MichaelDiggs

Buying a scope - which one recommended?

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I have a couple red dots and want to enter the scope world. For mostly 1000 yards and less. Most of the time a lot of time at the range at 500 yards or less. Possibly for hunting, but I'm not a big animal killer and don't like deer meat too much. Still trying to find out what exactly every number means in the specifications of the model, but I think I have it down pretty good. Let me know if I'm wrong. The "3-9x" would mean that's what the magnification is. "40mm" would mean the size of the glass circle itself. The larger, the better and more surface area you have when viewing using the rectile. Would that mean a scope with a larger mm size is just larger and is better and has a larger viewing area? I'd like the largest that is within being normal of using it on an AR-15. These are the ones I have had my eyes on. Don't need anything at all that cost $3000+ from the bank. Getting tired of my red dots, want a change and what better to change out my old red dots! :)

And when they say ILLUMINATED, does that mean the rectile/scope itself is illuminated? I understand there may be a red dot which needs to light up so it can be seen, but is there anything else illuminated while looking through the scope itself? Yea, I like to ask lots of questions, since when I do read too much online I do get even more confused since everyone has their own opinion on what something is. I've found this forum to be really cool with great people. Thanks, and I will take any of your recommendations of scopes not listed below. The ones below just caught my eye because of their price. Thanks again!!!!

 

 

Sig Sauer Whiskey3   3-9x 40mm  Quadplex Rectile   $119

Leupold VH-5HD 30mm 2-10x 42mm Duplex Rectile    $599

Leupold Mark AR MOD 1  1.5x-4  20mm   Illuminated Firedot SPR Rectile   $299

Leupold Mark AR MOD 1  3-9x  40mm  Illuminated Firedot Rectile  $299

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Im no pro, so ill answer what i can.
yes, the "3-9x" would be magnification. In this case, adjustable from 3x (being the least magnification) all the way to 9x, including 4x, 5x, 6x, etc.. Not just one or the other.
The 'mm' is the diameter, you'll also see some that are 1". Another common one would be, say, 30mm. I dont know how the diameter works with field of view and such other than the obvious (Bigger would mean you could see more). I think itd have to do with letting more light in and such too, someone else will have to chime in on that.

illuminated would be the reticle lights up. It's not night vision or anything like that, just helps when shooting in bright light situations and such.
I'm no pro so don't quote me on this but 1,000 yards is outside the effective range of your average AR15. 600 yards is about it from what i understand. If you ARE looking to shoot at 1,000 yards, youll likely want something far more powerful than a 1.5-4x scope, or even a 3-9x, maybe a 4-16x would work and even that is a maybe. 
I Shoot with a 4-16x on my 308 bolt action rifle and id say even at 600 yards itd be a bit tough.
Again, im no pro, just chiming in with whatever bit i can. Forums die down this time of night.
Also, do some research into optics choices. Plenty of good stuff out there nowadays. Check out Vortex; competitively priced often enough, and *SHOP AROUND*. opticsplanet has decent prices and if you contact them they will give you a discount beyond what it might show or any sales prices, so chat or pick up the phone and bug em'!.

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3 hours ago, Lambo2936 said:

Im no pro, so ill answer what i can.
yes, the "3-9x" would be magnification. In this case, adjustable from 3x (being the least magnification) all the way to 9x, including 4x, 5x, 6x, etc.. Not just one or the other.
The 'mm' is the diameter, you'll also see some that are 1". Another common one would be, say, 30mm. I dont know how the diameter works with field of view and such other than the obvious (Bigger would mean you could see more). I think itd have to do with letting more light in and such too, someone else will have to chime in on that.

illuminated would be the reticle lights up. It's not night vision or anything like that, just helps when shooting in bright light situations and such.
I'm no pro so don't quote me on this but 1,000 yards is outside the effective range of your average AR15. 600 yards is about it from what i understand. If you ARE looking to shoot at 1,000 yards, youll likely want something far more powerful than a 1.5-4x scope, or even a 3-9x, maybe a 4-16x would work and even that is a maybe. 
I Shoot with a 4-16x on my 308 bolt action rifle and id say even at 600 yards itd be a bit tough.
Again, im no pro, just chiming in with whatever bit i can. Forums die down this time of night.
Also, do some research into optics choices. Plenty of good stuff out there nowadays. Check out Vortex; competitively priced often enough, and *SHOP AROUND*. opticsplanet has decent prices and if you contact them they will give you a discount beyond what it might show or any sales prices, so chat or pick up the phone and bug em'!.

Thanks a million for the feedback. I’m at the research stage now and not looking for a monster scope. Even just 500 yards or less is fine with me. Just as long as the optics are good and a nice protective cover included would be nice.  Love my Aimpoint H’s which have been fantastic since they are so small and just work but I’d figure switching it up with a scope on one of my 15’s would be a nice change. I’m locked in NJ as most of us are here, so it will operate at the outside range most of the time or in PA. where I have some family living. I did read online somewhere that Leaupold has great optics compared to Vortex, Burris, and even Nikon. 

 

I was told to just go out and buy the Burris Eliminator III scope. I guess my friend completely disregarded the fact I did not want to spend that much money or even come close to such high-end scope with those capabilities it has. Built in rangefinder, trajectory information and gives you the red dot info with windage computations in seconds. Oh how nice. Not for me though. Small time $300 guy for me. 

I do like the Sig Whiskey3 which has 3-9x magnification. And for $119, where can I go wrong. I’m sure Sig even makes their own mount for it for a picatinny rail, which both my AR’s have. Hopefully quick disconnect capabilities since I like switching furniture around on each rifle.

 

Looking forward to more recommendations and if the experts here think that Sig Whiskey3 is a good sweet spot for what I’m looking for I’ll take the plunge for that price easily. 

 

Thanks!!!!

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A "3-9x40" scope will have a magnification range of 3x to 9x.  The 40 is the size of the objective which is the opening of the scope further from your eye when looking thru the scope.  It allows better light in low light situations

Tube size, which was alluded to in another post is different.  A larger tube will allow for more adjustment up/down and left/right to account for distance and windage.  You will want as much adjustment as you can find if you are shooting a 16-18" barreled AR out to 1000 with factory ammo.  It can be done and, if you enjoy a challenge, it will be fun.  

An illuminated scope will have a reticle, or part of a reticle that lights up.  It's not night vision.  

Of your choices, I personally own a Leupold VX5HD (I have the 3-15) and the optics are almost as good as my NightForce.  Or, better put, the NightForce does not have glass that is twice as good as the Leupold although the price is twice as much.  I would recommend the VX5HD over the MarkAR's as I experienced a bit of fisheye when looking thru them.  That's me and your experience may be different.  I can't speak on the Sig scope.  

Good luck.  I find glass to be the most difficult decision when shopping for firearm parts.  It can be very confusing and it for sure gets extremely expensive.  

(if you're ever up in North Jersey and want to put an eye thru my Leupy, shoot me a PM.)

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OP - There are other things to consider also.As Bully pointed out, objective lens diameter and scope tube diameter need to be considered. Along with tube diameter, you have to consider mounts and rings. Generally the larger the tube diameter, the more expensive the rings and smaller the selection, trending toward higher end pieces. Ring height needs to be considered to insure you clear any mounts, rails, iron sights or the barrel itself. This can get tricky because you want to have the scope center line mounted as close to the bore center line as possible. Also, if you intend to shoot out to 1000 yards - or even just 500, you may need a base with some elevation built in.

Lastly, you need to decide whether you want a first focal plane reticle (FFP) or a second focal plane reticle (SFP). The main difference between them is that an SFP reticle will appear to be the same size regardless of magnification. With an FFP reticle, the size of the reticle will appear to change as the scope’s magnification is changed. The SFP scopes are the most common, and generally less expensive with a greater variety of scopes to choose from. The FFP scopes are favored by long distance/precision shooters, but again are generally confined to the higher end scopes.

Good luck.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

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For the extra price range I do like the Leaupold VX-5HD 3-15 44mm. Sucker cost $800 without hardware. Went from a $119 Sig to a Leaupold $800. Anyway the tube is a common 30mm so there’s a lot of hardware out there. I’d like to get rings as close as I can get to my rail but would also like quick disconnects on them. If QD are not really a good idea then I can settle for standard regular rings. Leaupold makes them and can get a set of 30mm rings for around $85. Are the Leaupold rings ok? I would imagine getting the same brand name rings would be my best bet. I saw these rings for a great price on Midways site: https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1477123043/weaver-tactical-picatinny-style-rings-matte

 

Was also checking this one out which is a single piece. Convenient to me really. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2420197402/vortex-optics-cantilever-1-piece-extended-scope-mount-picatinny-style-with-integral-rings-ar-15-flat-top-matte

 

Thanks for all the info and if anyone thinks I should step down from an $800 scope since I’ll barely go beyond 500 yards and keep it closer may look for a less expensive model. I’ll try to see if Leaupold makes a less expensive model for more or less entry level for closer distances. My initial budget and what I wanted to spend on the scope was $300-$400. Jumping to an $800 model is probably too much for me now but love the gadgets! One that cost $300 that has good glass at least 40mm and magnification at 3 to 7 would be ideal. 

 

Thanks again!!

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I like TPS rings - a nice mid-priced item available from multiple sources. Claim to be within .002" of concentric, precluding the need to lap the rings.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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Reading in to what you have written and making some assumptions, I think for an AR-15 and how you seem to intend to use the scope a Vortex Strike Eagle is going to be your best bang for your buck (I also have one).  At 1-6 or 1-8 magnification that's plenty for the distances you're realistically shooting at, plus the 1x magnification will allow you to use it like a red dot when you don't need the range.  It's a great quality optic for the price, not cheap but not expensive, within your budget, and very well reviewed.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-strike-eagle-1-8x24-riflescope-ar-bdc-reticle

https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-strike-eagle-1-8x24mm-riflescope.html

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Take a look on Snipershide and Arfcom for used scopes. You should be able to find a good deal on there. I don’t have a ton of experience with different brands of scopes so others will have to help you on that. I have a Nightforce ATACR 4-16x and have no problem seeing and hitting at 1000 yards (6.5cm, not 556). Vortex, Leupold, Burris are all good companies that offer quality scopes. 

Depending on the stock type, the ring height might not matter much. Does your stock have an adjustable cheek piece? As long as you have that, you’ll be able to adjust your head to get a good, consistent cheekweld, regardless of the ring height. Having a low ring height and keeping the scope close to the barrel was born from the “traditional” rifles where the stock sits lower than the barrel, thus your eye line was lower. On the AR platform, that’s no longer an issue.

If you want QD mount, Larue is always a solid choice. 

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For what it's worth, I'd recommend looking into Primary Arms scopes.  Reviews are very good and they're on cheap/inexpensive spectrum.

I didn't have money at the end of my bolt rifle build so I went with a Primary Arms 4-14x44 non-illuminated mil dot scope - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L5IL5X2/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00L5IL5X2&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=f52e26da-1287-4616-824b-efc564ff75a4&pf_rd_r=S4QEEBNTWKNRWNZJ8WD4&pd_rd_wg=QVnYv&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&pd_rd_w=uzXSC&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pd_rd_r=c6f0492a-dc5f-11e8-a6ec-6327299a9613

Holds zero very well and the glass is very good for the price.  Really clear at 300 yards (longest distance at my range).  Even a crappy pic from my cellphone behind the scope came out OK:

 

oecdzp2l.jpg

1GiP5fDl.jpg

 

 

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My advice would be to forget that scopes under $150-200 exist. If you can't do that, at least forget anything under $125 new.

There are plenty of fairly decent scopes in the $125 to $200 range, but above that, you start getting better and better. Little things like light transmission due to better multicoating or slightly better glass give a better image. Looking through my inexpensive scopes ($125-175) vs my somewhat more expensive scopes ($300-450), i can see the yellow/magenta fringing in the cheap scopes, and the edge sharpness is lower, and cheap scopes give a softer, less sharp image overall.

Even comparing my cheap scopes to worthless $75 scopes, and the cheap scopes shine. The $75 scope can't even be used at maximum magnification because the picture is so soft and crappy.

Optics quality vs pricing isn't linear. A scope that is $200 isn't twice as good as a $100 scope, and is not half as good as a $400 scope. To see a scope that is twice as good as a $200 scope might bring you to the $600-1000 range. You'll see gradual improvements as price rises, but to instantly notice the difference between two scopes, expect a price difference 3-5 times higher.

Like camera lenses, an "inexpensive" one will work, but when you step up, it is a whole new level of quality and sharpness. Don't waste money buying cheap, then buying quality (what you wanted and shoulda gotten in the first place) later on anyway. You just lose money selling or keeping and not using the cheap item.

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On 10/30/2018 at 0:45 PM, Malice4you said:

My advice would be to forget that scopes under $150-200 exist. If you can't do that, at least forget anything under $125 new.

There are plenty of fairly decent scopes in the $125 to $200 range, but above that, you start getting better and better. Little things like light transmission due to better multicoating or slightly better glass give a better image. Looking through my inexpensive scopes ($125-175) vs my somewhat more expensive scopes ($300-450), i can see the yellow/magenta fringing in the cheap scopes, and the edge sharpness is lower, and cheap scopes give a softer, less sharp image overall.

Even comparing my cheap scopes to worthless $75 scopes, and the cheap scopes shine. The $75 scope can't even be used at maximum magnification because the picture is so soft and crappy.

Optics quality vs pricing isn't linear. A scope that is $200 isn't twice as good as a $100 scope, and is not half as good as a $400 scope. To see a scope that is twice as good as a $200 scope might bring you to the $600-1000 range. You'll see gradual improvements as price rises, but to instantly notice the difference between two scopes, expect a price difference 3-5 times higher.

Like camera lenses, an "inexpensive" one will work, but when you step up, it is a whole new level of quality and sharpness. Don't waste money buying cheap, then buying quality (what you wanted and shoulda gotten in the first place) later on anyway. You just lose money selling or keeping and not using the cheap item.

Well my girlfriend bought me  scope ( have no idea why since she has no idea what I wanted ) but she was just trying to show the love and I can return it. She bought me the Leupold AR mod 1 3x-9 40mm MIL rectile. Ya know, I'd keep it but I really wanted a first focal plane scope...or do you guys think it really matters? Heck, she only paid $299 for it on sale and it has a lifetime warranty. I heard the glass is crystal clear and really, like you guys said I'm not going above 500 yards here, so this may even be too much. Think I should keep it? It has not been delivered yet, but it can be returned for a full refund she said. I really wanted a GOOD quality 1x-6 or similar 40mm first focal plane paralax adjustment? and something that just has kick butt quality at the distances I'll be challanging myself. I can always keep the Leupold AR MOD 1 , and look for a second one for my second AR rifle that I have. I just don't know since scopes are new to me. I heard good things about it, all the reviews on it look good but I just don't know. I've dealt with Primary Arms before. I had one of their 3x magnifiers which was horrible glass compared to almost an identical Burris one I got. That's why I never went back to Primary Arms, but maybe I'll check them out for inexpensive scopes for the distances I'll be at. Thanks fellas. More investigation is needed, and boy am I learning a lot sitting here on my computer reading about scopes. I do like the ones that are made specifically for AR rifles, since they are usually shorter and don't have such high magnification...anyway, more checking things out!

 

 

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FFP is awesome for ranging targets and shooting at unknown distances.  

SFP is perfect for shooting at known distance and generally considered better for target shooting as the FFP crosshair is difficult to make thin enough to not obscure the target at high mag but still be thick enough to be usable at low mag.  

The Leupy she got you is a solid little piece of glass.  Would I step up...  I'd most likely try.  Maybe use what she put in and add some to get the nicer glass?  I have the VX5HD and it is awesome although it's SFP.  

Good luck.

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2 minutes ago, Bully said:

FFP is awesome for ranging targets and shooting at unknown distances.  

SFP is perfect for shooting at known distance and generally considered better for target shooting as the FFP crosshair is difficult to make thin enough to not obscure the target at high mag but still be thick enough to be usable at low mag.  

The Leupy she got you is a solid little piece of glass.  Would I step up...  I'd most likely try.  Maybe use what she put in and add some to get the nicer glass?  I have the VX5HD and it is awesome although it's SFP.  

Good luck.

Well, I took a chance and went with this one from primary arms.

https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1-6x24mm-ffp-illuminated-rifle-scope-with-acss-raptor-556-reticle-black

Looks like a nice little guy, has illumination and FFP, which I wanted. It is not in stock right now, but I'm in no big rush. It is made in China, but what isn't. And it has Primary Arms Lifetime Warranty.  Even if it breaks from normal wear and tear Primary Arms will fix or replace it for free. Why not. I do want to get a quick disconnect mount. When cleaning or changing the scopes on my different rifles, I wanted this ability. Although getting it all back to 0 on point most likely won't happen, so who knows. The picture shows flip up caps on it, so I need to find out if it comes with them. I purchased it at OpticsPlanet because I got a better price there than Primary Arms themselves. Weird. :)

 

Anyone recommend a real low sitting QD mount? 30mm size, so it should be pretty easy to find a whole bunch of them, I just don't like some QD's because they eat up the rail. I need to find the one that grabs the rail already, then just snaps in tight with QD lock on it. The ones like LaRue are really bad. They use a sliding mechanism that scratches the paint right off your rail. Too abrasive for me, even if it is a rifle I beat on.

 

 

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1 hour ago, MichaelDiggs said:

Well, I took a chance and went with this one from primary arms.

https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1-6x24mm-ffp-illuminated-rifle-scope-with-acss-raptor-556-reticle-black

Looks like a nice little guy, has illumination and FFP, which I wanted. It is not in stock right now, but I'm in no big rush. It is made in China, but what isn't. And it has Primary Arms Lifetime Warranty.  Even if it breaks from normal wear and tear Primary Arms will fix or replace it for free. Why not. I do want to get a quick disconnect mount. When cleaning or changing the scopes on my different rifles, I wanted this ability. Although getting it all back to 0 on point most likely won't happen, so who knows. The picture shows flip up caps on it, so I need to find out if it comes with them. I purchased it at OpticsPlanet because I got a better price there than Primary Arms themselves. Weird. :)

 

Anyone recommend a real low sitting QD mount? 30mm size, so it should be pretty easy to find a whole bunch of them, I just don't like some QD's because they eat up the rail. I need to find the one that grabs the rail already, then just snaps in tight with QD lock on it. The ones like LaRue are really bad. They use a sliding mechanism that scratches the paint right off your rail. Too abrasive for me, even if it is a rifle I beat on.

 

 

I have a similar Leupold scope that I've got mounted to my AR using an American Defense Recon QD mount. It puts the reticle at the perfect height (for me anyway). I've taken the scope on and off several times and have never seen any scratches

https://www.primaryarms.com/american-defense-recon-scope-mount-30mm-ad-recon-30

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On 11/3/2018 at 8:35 AM, medved11 said:

I have a similar Leupold scope that I've got mounted to my AR using an American Defense Recon QD mount. It puts the reticle at the perfect height (for me anyway). I've taken the scope on and off several times and have never seen any scratches

https://www.primaryarms.com/american-defense-recon-scope-mount-30mm-ad-recon-30

I have the same mount and it works well for me.

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On 11/8/2018 at 8:27 AM, franklee said:

x-sight-4k-3-14-pro_preview.png

I had a chance to shoot with it, I liked it, I think I should buy it. Are they worth their money? In the description, everything is very cool! Here I found some reviews from ATN brand (https://www.atncorp.com/smart-hd-weapon-sight) Can't find warranty information though. Considering Primary Arms and Leupold have Lifetime no hassle warranties that comes into play with such an advanced scope like that ATN.

 

Do you guys think I should keep that Leupold that I picked up for $299 or wait until the Primary Arms model comes in? For some reason my gut is telling me return the Leupold and wait  for the Primary Arms model.

 

Which one did you buy? This one ATN X-SIGHT 4K PRO 3-14X looks like a really nice scope for $$699.

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On 11/10/2018 at 8:13 PM, MichaelDiggs said:

Which one did you buy? This one ATN X-SIGHT 4K PRO 3-14X looks like a really nice scope for $$699.

I have not yet made the dive. I was looking at the JAPAN made glass by Primary Arms which is their platinum line. Anything below is Chinese made inferior glass and it is the glass that is the primary key in clarity that you want in scope.

I was really checking this model out from Primary Arms for $1299 maybe $1099 on sale if you can, but that ATN X-Sight pro looks pretty damn good to me for the price, BUT where is the glass made? Why only a 2 year warranty compared to LIFETIME ( even normal wear and tear ) on other models which is a normal warranty for scopes. Even a Leupold $300 model has a better warranty then the $700 ATN. Your throwing this scope on an AR15 rifle. Which is usually a rifle abused and hard used in the field. Will this ATN really stand up to a daily beating? Drop it once and dent the side on the tube, I bet the will not even enforce their warranty because it was an accident. Yea, I like the crazy features and options on the ATN scope, and viewing a picture right in the scope itself has a very high "cool" factor but I could not buy a scope with just a 2 year warranty. I don't want to treat my rifle like it is made of glass and be careful with it. I want to be able to beat the heck out of it like you should be able to and not have to worry about the furniture attached. If that ATN had a lifetime warranty on it, I'd grab it right up. 

 

Any opinions on this? A really cool $700 4k 3x-14 magnification which can be used for all types of shooting and distances, not knowing where the glass is made or a Primary Arms $1299 1x-8 magnification which is great for mid-range and in but has a lifetime warranty on it. In my opinion if it has a lifetime warranty on it the increase in price is ok. I just know I'll be covered. And still couldn't find anywhere on ATN's site where the glass is made. If it's China made then forget it is a real easy decision. The PA Platinum's are Japan made.

One of these, which one would you considering price/warranty/features/etc....

https://www.atncorp.com/x-sight4k-pro-day-night-rifle-scope-3-14x

http://primaryarmsoptics.com/product/platinum-series-1-8x24mm-ffp-scope-w-acss-raptor-m2-reticle/

 

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I was reluctant to post because of my bias.

Sightron is my choice in brands.

Jap glass very clear (same as Vortex and Nightforce)

Moderate price comparatively. Excellent customer service. (they're here in Georgia)

Loads of horizontal / vertical adjustment (I shoot to 800yds without 20MOA bases)

A patented a adjustment system. Always passes a box test.

Loads of models.  I wouldn't buy the cheapest but their top tier stuff is unequalled.

Check them out.

 

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Got the platinum. Have an outstanding question regarding the turrets. I know they can be pulled off, but putting them back on is the question.                                                                                                                              

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I'm a Burris whore, love their scopes

one thing on glass and clarity, don't forget fov as fov can make great glass look less stellar with an inadequate fov. 

 

I would not buy a PA branded anything given they are merely clones of other brands deconstructed by the chinese.  Now the Marshall has changed his model with better materials etc however, the base construction remains the same.

 

Vortex, Leupold, Nightforce, higher end sightron and Burris....stick with these

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I have the Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4 with the illuminated SPR reticle you listed, it's a very good scope for the money. If not having a true 1x power doesn't bother you then you'll like it. Mine's just sitting in a box right now, if I decide I want to get rid of it I'll let you know

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