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Can I take a firearm from one house to another?

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If you own or lease the property, no FID is required since it's covered under the EXEMPTIONS!

Doesn't have to be a residence.  Could be a patch of land surrounding a sink hole.  If ya own it, you can patrol it.  Laws go all the way back to pre-rev war where land owners had more rights.  Guess what, it's STILL THERE, only they don't come straight out & say it!

Rosey

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1 minute ago, Smokin .50 said:

If you own or lease the property, no FID is required since it's covered under the EXEMPTIONS!

Doesn't have to be a residence.  Could be a patch of land surrounding a sink hole.  If ya own it, you can patrol it.  Laws go all the way back to pre-rev war where land owners had more rights.  Guess what, it's STILL THERE, only they don't come straight out & say it!

Rosey

Thanks I knew somebody knew

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

If you own or lease the property, no FID is required since it's covered under the EXEMPTIONS!

Doesn't have to be a residence.  Could be a patch of land surrounding a sink hole.  If ya own it, you can patrol it.  Laws go all the way back to pre-rev war where land owners had more rights.  Guess what, it's STILL THERE, only they don't come straight out & say it!

Rosey

But we live in a lawless state where the opinions of elected representatives rule.  :(

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3 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

If you own or lease the property, no FID is required since it's covered under the EXEMPTIONS!

Doesn't have to be a residence.  Could be a patch of land surrounding a sink hole.  If ya own it, you can patrol it.  Laws go all the way back to pre-rev war where land owners had more rights.  Guess what, it's STILL THERE, only they don't come straight out & say it!

Rosey

Furthermore, the way the laws are written, you could unload & transport your hand gun (that you got from being named in a will--no papers) to all 100 of your owned or leased properties, and pop yer car's trunk & reload it with a speed-loader or loaded mag prior to patrolling that specific property.  Dumping the mag & popping the chambered round into yer pants pocket, and then securing that hand gun & ammo where you can't reach it enables you to patrol continuously, without stopping, for as long as you wish, so long as you steer directly to the next property with yer unloaded sidearm...

THE EXEMPTIONS ARE YOUR FRIEND!  :) 

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46 minutes ago, deerpark said:

So I bought an investment property, my name is on the deed. 

Can I take a firearm to this second home and then carry it on me as if I was at my primary residence? 

long gun yes. pistol no. i could be wrong, but i don't think i am.

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25 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

If you own or lease the property, no FID is required since it's covered under the EXEMPTIONS!

Doesn't have to be a residence.  Could be a patch of land surrounding a sink hole.  If ya own it, you can patrol it.  Laws go all the way back to pre-rev war where land owners had more rights.  Guess what, it's STILL THERE, only they don't come straight out & say it!

Rosey

This should be in a sticky somewhere. Seems to be an elusive concept to a lot of people.

@Smokin .50

Question for you. If you live full time in an RV, converted van or in your car and you move it throughout the state, would that vehicle considered a car or your residency? 

 

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20 minutes ago, WP22 said:

This should be in a sticky somewhere. Seems to be an elusive concept to a lot of people.

@Smokin .50

Question for you. If you live full time in an RV, converted van or in your car and you move it throughout the state, would that vehicle considered a car or your residency? 

 

car

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12 minutes ago, WP22 said:

This should be in a sticky somewhere. Seems to be an elusive concept to a lot of people.

@Smokin .50

Question for you. If you live full time in an RV, converted van or in your car and you move it throughout the state, would that vehicle considered a car or your residency? 

 

IANAL.  I believe NJ considers a RV, be it a $1M celebrity-filled touring bus or a barely not-yet-in-the-junkyard beat-to-piss conversion van to be a VEHICLE & not a residence.  The reason I say this is that Mr. Hot Dog Cart Bidness Man isn't allowed to protect his CASH BIDNESS BECAUSE HE HAS WHEELS!  Exemption for Bidness only covers a FIXED LOCATION, therefore I, as an Attorney of fact (I probated a will, lol), feel compelled to agree with Paul (PK-90)! 

State law varies widely on this topic, and several states in Free Amerikka consider a RV to be a residence if you can sleep in it routinely.  So a 1970's era pick-up with a drop-in camper would qualify, and several owners have defended life & limb from such a sleeping quarters, and done so LEGALLY!

Rosey

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2C:39-6  e.  Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

The info above tells where you can carry and when you can transport.  The manner in which you must transport is:

  "All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Notice that you can carry between places of business or residences only when moving.   You can carry at your rental property but I don't think you can get your gun there because you aren't moving there.  However, transportation is legal for long guns only if you have an FID card.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, WP22 said:

Question for you. If you live full time in an RV, converted van or in your car and you move it throughout the state, would that vehicle considered a car or your residency? 

I asked a similar question a while ago. Could I take a handgun with me if I'm traveling for weeks, since the RV at that time is my "house". The consensus was, when it's moving, it's a car. When it's parked, hooked up to utilities, it's a house.

I know.... crazy...

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4 minutes ago, maintenanceguy said:

2C:39-6  e.  Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

 

by the way, the "manner specified in section g is:

  "All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

Notice that you can carry between places of business or residences only when moving.   You can carry at your rental property but I don't think you can get your gun there because you aren't moving there.  However, transportation is legal for long guns only if you have an FID card.

 

 

Your interpretation is incorrect.  The above exemption says I can carry ANY FIREARM, not just a long gun.  It also covers premises, and "other land owned or possessed by him/her".  So I don't need to helicast down via a rope ladder to my rent-able gas station or vacant land parcel or 7-Eleven or Titty Bar to scramble to a locked box so as to enable myself to obtain my unloaded or loaded hand gun (ANY FIREARM, not just long gun) for purpose of patrol or whatever else I wanna do that's legal...

Punctuation MATTERS, and so does the "OR's" before & after said punctuation.  Moving exemption is in addition to, not instead of the aforementioned exemptions.  That's why it's nearer the end of a long list initiated with "NOTHING SHALL BE CONSTRUED...."

Section G contains the now-famous "I'm afraid to go pee" "deviation rule", the intent of which precludes driving back to "home base" after every cash pick-up from a cash bidness, or from other land or property owned or possessed by him/her.  If I'm allowed to go to "property" that's VACANT & patrol it with my loaded hand gun, how am I supposed to get said hand gun to this remote location?  The totality of the written laws are commonly interpreted to get you, the evil gun owner, off the streets as fast as possible.  Obviously, driving in circles from every legal patrol destination "property" is a polar opposite to the INTENT.

To my knowledge, which btw is sorta quite extensive, NO ONE 'cept for Brian Aitken has gotten jammed-up for the "while moving" exemption being denied (he had unloaded hand guns in his trunk while moving back & forth over a 2 week period), and on appeal even that charge was thrown-out because the Judge, the same Judge that got DISBARRED over that case, failed to properly charge the Jury with the correct moving exemption, even after several attempts by both Lou Nappen AND the Jury Chairperson to allow them to hear the attempted testimony!  Later, he was granted clemency & released.  Governor Christie, after being contacted by several CNJFO members and other 2A Patriots, signed a full pardon for Aitken shortly prior to his term expiring in January of this year.  

To my knowledge there isn't a County Prosecutor that wants to go down that same road & be thoroughly embarrassed doing so.  @GRIZ can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see that happening since he already liked a much more abbreviated answer I gave on this very thread.

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44 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

Your interpretation is incorrect.  The above exemption says I can carry ANY FIREARM, not just a long gun.  It also covers premises, and "other land owned or possessed by him/her".  So I don't need to helicast down via a rope ladder to my rent-able gas station or vacant land parcel or 7-Eleven or Titty Bar to scramble to a locked box so as to enable myself to obtain my unloaded or loaded hand gun (ANY FIREARM, not just long gun) for purpose of patrol or whatever else I wanna do that's legal...

Punctuation MATTERS, and so does the "OR's" before & after said punctuation.  Moving exemption is in addition to, not instead of the aforementioned exemptions.  That's why it's nearer the end of a long list initiated with "NOTHING SHALL BE CONSTRUED...."

Section G contains the now-famous "I'm afraid to go pee" "deviation rule", the intent of which precludes driving back to "home base" after every cash pick-up from a cash bidness, or from other land or property owned or possessed by him/her.  If I'm allowed to go to "property" that's VACANT & patrol it with my loaded hand gun, how am I supposed to get said hand gun to this remote location?  The totality of the written laws are commonly interpreted to get you, the evil gun owner, off the streets as fast as possible.  Obviously, driving in circles from every legal patrol destination "property" is a polar opposite to the INTENT.

To my knowledge, which btw is sorta quite extensive, NO ONE 'cept for Brian Aitken has gotten jammed-up for the "while moving" exemption being denied (he had unloaded hand guns in his trunk while moving back & forth over a 2 week period), and on appeal even that charge was thrown-out because the Judge, the same Judge that got DISBARRED over that case, failed to properly charge the Jury with the correct moving exemption, even after several attempts by both Lou Nappen AND the Jury Chairperson to allow them to hear the attempted testimony!  Later, he was granted clemency & released.  Governor Christie, after being contacted by several CNJFO members and other 2A Patriots, signed a full pardon for Aitken shortly prior to his term expiring in January of this year.  

To my knowledge there isn't a County Prosecutor that wants to go down that same road & be thoroughly embarrassed doing so.  @GRIZ can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see that happening since he already liked a much more abbreviated answer I gave on this very thread.

@Smokin .50 I agree with your assessment.  No use me repeating it.

IIRC it was never proven in court Aitken was moving although I think he was.  There was also that thing about his roommate having a party and wanting Aitken to get the gun out of the apartment.

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1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

@Smokin .50 I agree with your assessment.  No use me repeating it.

IIRC it was never proven in court Aitken was moving although I think he was.  There was also that thing about his roommate having a party and wanting Aitken to get the gun out of the apartment.

Thanks @GRIZ and you're exactly correct!  The proper reading of the moving exemption was never allowed, and Lou Nappen wasn't allowed to bring forth testimony showing how today's 20-somethings move themselves, sometimes with the help of friends & sometimes not, with their own personal vehicle, instead of hiring a moving service company capable of a point-to-point uninterrupted transportation (Allied or Mayflower as an example).  The Judge issued a ruling from the bench that Aitken wasn't moving, even though he had to flop on friends' couches prior to establishing a residence once again.  This & not properly charging the Jury resulted in the Judge's disbarment.  I also remember the roommate thing, but I'd hafta read the old transcripts to determine if that fact was allowed into sworn testimony.

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4 hours ago, maintenanceguy said:

2C:39-6  e.  Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

The info above tells where you can carry and when you can transport.  The manner in which you must transport is:

  "All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Notice that you can carry between places of business or residences only when moving.   You can carry at your rental property but I don't think you can get your gun there because you aren't moving there.  However, transportation is legal for long guns only if you have an FID card.

So its lawful for me to have a firearm at my other property (lets call it the other property since it isnt rented yet), but I dont have a lawful way of getting it there unless I'm moving there or am taking it from a repair facility or place of purchase ie gun store?

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42 minutes ago, deerpark said:

So its lawful for me to have a firearm at my other property (lets call it the other property since it isnt rented yet), but I dont have a lawful way of getting it there unless I'm moving there or am taking it from a repair facility or place of purchase ie gun store?

In order to get "any firearm" to any property "owned of possessed" by you or has to be transported. 

If you don't have a FID or that firearm is a handgun reasonable deviation applies.

How firearm is transported always applies.

 

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2 hours ago, deerpark said:

So its lawful for me to have a firearm at my other property (lets call it the other property since it isnt rented yet), but I dont have a lawful way of getting it there unless I'm moving there or am taking it from a repair facility or place of purchase ie gun store?

Your other property could be swamp land in the Meadowlands, the same laws applies.  No structure need to be there.  No locked-box containing the firearm need be there to start your patrol while ARMED.  No renter need be present, either to live there or operate a bidness.  Please re-read what I wrote previously so you understand the basis of how to apply common sense instead of heli-casting on a rope ladder to patrol your swamp land :)   You're allowed to patrol a vacant swamp.  Most folks would drive there.  Following the regular transportation rules that GRIZ just outlined.  Don't overthink this.

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8 hours ago, maintenanceguy said:

Notice that you can carry between places of business or residences only when moving.   You can carry at your rental property but I don't think you can get your gun there because you aren't moving there.  However, transportation is legal for long guns only if you have an FID card.

 

 

 

How do you get from one residence to another without moving? ;-)

And make sure you do not transport hollow points between residences.

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2 hours ago, leahcim said:

How do you get from one residence to another without moving? ;-)

And make sure you do not transport hollow points between residences.

Yes, the law says place of purchase, home, and range for hollowpoints.  

Yes, although it's generally uses as an add on charge you can be charged only with possession of hollowpoints.

However, last time I researched any one charged only with possession of hollowpoints I had to go back to 2000-2002.  Being that there i's only one case in the past 16 to 18 years that I've found your chances of being charged with it are very low.  There have, no doubt, been at least 1000s of people who have moved with hollowpoints.  I'm not advocating you break the law.

If it worries you, you can do the phony baloney go from house to a range, take a photo with your phone ensuring date time and location are recorded in the data, and then drive to your new home.

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17 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Yes, the law says place of purchase, home, and range for hollowpoints.  

Yes, although it's generally uses as an add on charge you can be charged only with possession of hollowpoints.

However, last time I researched any one charged only with possession of hollowpoints I had to go back to 2000-2002.  Being that there i's only one case in the past 16 to 18 years that I've found your chances of being charged with it are very low.  There have, no doubt, been at least 1000s of people who have moved with hollowpoints.  I'm not advocating you break the law.

If it worries you, you can do the phony baloney go from house to a range, take a photo with your phone ensuring date time and location are recorded in the data, and then drive to your new home.

However, it was the only charge that was upheld in the Aitken case.

Yes, the probability is very low, but the consequences are quite high, so it is not something to take lightly.  And I also find it interesting that the law is written so that everything else can be transported, and a casual reading of the law would incline one to believe HPs transport was within the law (I know I thought that way prior to Aitken).

I would like to think that a reasonable person could follow the law without consulting an attorney or prior cases.  And I know people have issues with the Aitken case and he allegedly had illegal magazines (although the prosecution was somehow to stupid to prove the ability to continuously feed part of the law); so I reckon it was an add-on, but in the end that add-on is the only charge that was upheld.  Sure it is statically improbable, but that does not help when you are the outlier.

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9 minutes ago, leahcim said:

However, it was the only charge that was upheld in the Aitken case.

Yes, the probability is very low, but the consequences are quite high, so it is not something to take lightly.  And I also find it interesting that the law is written so that everything else can be transported, and a casual reading of the law would incline one to believe HPs transport was within the law (I know I thought that way prior to Aitken).

I would like to think that a reasonable person could follow the law without consulting an attorney or prior cases.  And I know people have issues with the Aitken case and he allegedly had illegal magazines (although the prosecution was somehow to stupid to prove the ability to continuously feed part of the law); so I reckon it was an add-on, but in the end that add-on is the only charge that was upheld.  Sure it is statically improbable, but that does not help when you are the outlier.

The reason the magazine charge was overturned was they weren't tested as you state.  The reason the possession charge was overturned was because the judge failed to instruct the jury about the moving exemption. If those two things were done I don't think Aitken's appeal would have had any juice.  He, "got off on a technicality".

The lesson from the Aitken case AFAIC is not to say anything stupid to your mother to alarm her and cause her to call the police.

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11 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

The reason the magazine charge was overturned was they weren't tested as you state.  The reason the possession charge was overturned was because the judge failed to instruct the jury about the moving exemption. If those two things were done I don't think Aitken's appeal would have had any juice.  He, "got off on a technicality".

The lesson from the Aitken case AFAIC is not to say anything stupid to your mother to alarm her and cause her to call the police.

Yeah, first mistake he made was to believe the police and comply with their request to turn around and drive back to Cherry Hill.

Second mistake is to STFU (or maybe that was the first).

Third mistake is consent to search.

Agree the mag charge was overturned on technicality; but I believe there is a very good chance the possession charge would have been acquitted if the jury had been allowed to decide the moving/transport question rather than the judge telling them it did not apply.

It is a good lesson of the NJ citizen owning guns at one's own peril.  If you own guns in NJ, make sure you understand the law and stay well within.

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43 minutes ago, leahcim said:

Yeah, first mistake he made was to believe the police and comply with their request to turn around and drive back to Cherry Hill.

Second mistake is to STFU (or maybe that was the first).

Third mistake is consent to search.

Agree the mag charge was overturned on technicality; but I believe there is a very good chance the possession charge would have been acquitted if the jury had been allowed to decide the moving/transport question rather than the judge telling them it did not apply.

It is a good lesson of the NJ citizen owning guns at one's own peril.  If you own guns in NJ, make sure you understand the law and stay well within.

His first mistake was saying something stupid to make his mother call the police.  If he hadn't done that the rest wouldn't have happened.

 

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22 hours ago, leahcim said:

How do you get from one residence to another without moving? ;-)

And make sure you do not transport hollow points between residences.

By owning or renting more than one residence.  I have friends that own 2 or 3, and some even more than that if you include houses they own & rent-out.  

If your renter moves out & you need to change the carpets to get rid of kid puke or animal urine smell, and then paint, paper or whatever, and you leave the doors open to aid in the air circulation, it's nice to "have a dear friend" at your side...  The possession & transportation laws never say you can only have ONE residence.  Doesn't say "voting residence", "primary residence" or ANY such additional language.  As verbose as lawyers are, and as much paper as they use to type laws, if they wanted to exclude ANYTHING, they have plenty of paper & secretarial workforce to do just that...

Land owners have more gun rights in NJ than mere serfs!

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11 hours ago, GRIZ said:

His first mistake was saying something stupid to make his mother call the police.  If he hadn't done that the rest wouldn't have happened.

 

Agreed, as I said "Second mistake is to STFU (or maybe that was the first)."

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