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Just wanted to see what you all think. Legal or Illegal to swap 15 rounders for 10 rounders with a private individual within the State Of N.J. at this time. Assume the person with whom the  proposed swap is being done is not an FFL and further assume the person who wants to receive the 15 rounders is exempt from the 10 round mag limit.   The focus of this question is not on the legality of possession of the 15 rounder by the exempt person but rather on the person doing the transfer of a 15 rounder prior to the expiration of the grace period. Not interested in any issue regarding modification of the 15 rounder or inability of anyone but the parties to the proposed transfer to know about it. Legal? Illegal? or Not sure are all acceptable answers

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 9 characters or fewer to identify his or her Gab account. The Gab user may also change this username, password, and display name without having to open a new Gab account. 27.
 
A Gab user can post a personal photograph or image (also known as an "avatar") to his or her profile, and can also change the profile background or theme for his or her account
 
 page. In addition, Gab users can post "bios" of 160 characters or fewer to their profile pages. In addition, when a Gab includes a Gab username, often preceded by the
@
sign, Gab designates that Gab a "mention" of the identified user. 28.
 
On October 27, 2018, after learning of his brother’s suicide, Jeffrey Clark told W-1 and W-2 that he thought the synagogue shooter (Bowers) had friended him on Gab. 29.
 
On or about November 4, 2018, Jeffrey Clark told W-2 that he expected the FBI to “show up” because of his contacts with Bowers on Gab. During this conversation, Jeffrey Clark told W-2 “they (an apparent reference to VA) had not broken any laws, but at some point if a line gets crossed, I would be violent, everyone has a line, including you.” 30.
 
The FBI’s investigation into Bowers confirmed that Bowers and Jeffrey Clark were friends on Gab. 31.
 
Your affiant has identified Jeffrey Clark’s Gab username as “DC Bowl Gang.”
4
 Your affiant also has reason to believe that the Gab username for Edward Clark was “DC_Stormer.” Your affiant viewed Jeffrey Clark’s Gab profile page following Edward Clark’s death. Jeffrey Clark’s profile picture includes a photograph of Jeffrey and Edward Clark wearing
4
 Your affiant believes that the term “bowl gang” is a reference to the bowl-style haircut of Dylann Roof, the white supremacist convicted of perpetrating the June 17, 2015, massacre at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, that left nine people dead.
1:18-Case mj-00141-GMH Document 1-1 Filed 11/09/18 Page 9 of 12
 
9-42a79e49d4.jpg
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 10 masks and holding what appear to be the Mossberg Maverick 88 shotgun and the Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle that were registered in the District of Columbia. The Clark brothers are posing in front of a flag with a skull and crossbones. The skull has what appears to be a bowl-style haircut. Superimposed over this photograph is an image of Dylann Roof (Attachment D). 32.
 
On his profile page, Jeffrey Clark describes himself as: “Aka DC Stormer (RIP), “Meth-Smoking, Pipe Bomb making, mailman-murding,#Fed,#DemoKKKrat, Che Guevara of the altright, Glenn beck, Not a NEET – just bathing in White priviledge, Bowlcut Nationalism is the only way forward. . .” (Attachment D). 33.
 
In one of Jeffrey Clark’s  by the hero #RobertBowers were all active supporters of pedophilia… and every last one of them deserved exactly what happened to them and so much worse.” 34.posts he states that the “fucking kikes that got shot Gab
 
Another post in Jeffrey Clark’s Gab account shows a picture of Robert Bowers, armed with a gun, splattered in what appears to be blood, followed by the following post by Clark: “Nah he was BASED! Get used to it libtards. This was a dry run for things to come.” (Attachment E). This statement implies that Jeffery Clark did know more about the attack in the Tree-of-Life synagogue, and that there was more to come.
1:18-Case mj-00141-GMH Document 1-1 Filed 11/09/18 Page 10 of 12
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 11
CONCLUSION
35.
 
Based on the abovementioned facts, I submit there is probable cause to believe that on or about September 2018 through November 9, 2018, JEFFERY CLARK, an unlawful user of a controlled substance, knowingly possessed and transported in interstate commerce a firearm, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(3), and unlawfully possessed a high-capacity 2506.1 (b)magazine in violation of 7 D.C. Code § .
. Respectfully submitted, Michael Bauknight, Special Agent, FBI Subscribed and sworn to before me on November 9, 2018:  _________________________________________ G. MICHAEL HARVEY UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE JUDGE
1:18-Case mj-00141-GMH Document 1-1 Filed 11/09/18 Page 11 of 12
11-b896f2d4c8.jpg 11-b896f2d4c8.jpg
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

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@SJG Go edit your OP, it's full of jibberish after your paragraph.

1 hour ago, SJG said:

The focus of this question is not on the legality of possession of the 15 rounder by the exempt person but rather on the person doing the transfer of a 15 rounder prior to the expiration of the grace period.

That was the purpose of the grace period. To give everyone time to modify, transfer or dispose of the 15 rounders. I believe swapping them for 10 rounders before Dec. 10th would be OK.

....."a person who legally owns a semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 10 rounds or a large capacity ammunition magazine as defined under subsection y. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition on the effective date of P.L.     , c.     (C.       ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill) may retain possession of that rifle or magazine for a period not to exceed 180 days 1[from] after1 the effective date of this act.  During this time period, the owner of the semi-automatic rifle or magazine shall: 

     a.     Transfer the semi-automatic rifle or magazine to any person or firm lawfully entitled to own or possess that firearm or magazine;

 

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Just wanted to see what you all think. Legal or Illegal to swap 15 rounders for 10 rounders with a private individual within the State Of N.J. at this time. Assume the person with whom the proposed swap is being done is not an FFL and further assume the person who wants to receive the 15 rounders is exempt from the 10 round mag limit.   The focus of this question is not on the legality of possession of the 15 rounder by the exempt person but rather on the person doing the transfer of a 15 rounder prior to the expiration of the grace period. Not interested in any issue regarding modification of the 15 rounder or inability of anyone but the parties to the proposed transfer to know about it. The impetus behind this question is that 15 rounders can no longer legally be purchased in N.J. --i.e., transferred?? Legal? Illegal? or Not sure are all acceptable answers

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3 hours ago, SJG said:

Just wanted to see what you all think. Legal or Illegal to swap 15 rounders for 10 rounders with a private individual within the State Of N.J. at this time. Assume the person with whom the proposed swap is being done is not an FFL and further assume the person who wants to receive the 15 rounders is exempt from the 10 round mag limit.   The focus of this question is not on the legality of possession of the 15 rounder by the exempt person but rather on the person doing the transfer of a 15 rounder prior to the expiration of the grace period. Not interested in any issue regarding modification of the 15 rounder or inability of anyone but the parties to the proposed transfer to know about it. The impetus behind this question is that 15 rounders can no longer legally be purchased in N.J. --i.e., transferred?? Legal? Illegal? or Not sure are all acceptable answers

Take the 15 round mag apart and now you just got a bunch of metal stuff. =)

I am not 100% up on the the way the law is written, but are magazine parts considered complete mags?

But just do the transfer now, get copies of ID... or take a ride out to PA and swap there... =)  

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2 hours ago, Maksim said:

Take the 15 round mag apart and now you just got a bunch of metal stuff. =)

I am not 100% up on the the way the law is written, but are magazine parts considered complete mags?

This is just a guess, but based on my research for building an M4gery with a 14.5" bbl, possession of such a barrel, even with plans on installing a muzzle device to bring it up to the legal 16" length could still get you busted if you were in possession of a lower receiver.

I believe, as long as you have a all the parts, in the eyes of New Germany, it's the same as having a fully assembled prohibited item.  Something or other about "constructive intent".

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2 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

This is just a guess, but based on my research for building an M4gery with a 14.5" bbl, possession of such a barrel, even with plans on installing a muzzle device to bring it up to the legal 16" length could still get you busted if you were in possession of a lower receiver.

I believe, as long as you have a all the parts, in the eyes of New Germany, it's the same as having a fully assembled prohibited item.  Something or other about "constructive intent".

I don't think Maks' idea would fly but do you know of anyone busted for constructive possession of a 14.5" barrel and lower receiver?  If that were the case everyone who owns a Shock wave and a full size Mossberg pump could be arrested.

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1 minute ago, GRIZ said:

do you know of anyone busted for constructive possession of a 14.5" barrel

Nope, I sure dont.  But the fact is there were a lot of posts warning on the pitfall of constructive intent. 

At any rate, I'm a remy 870 lover, but bought a shockwave just to avoid the exact scenario you mentioned.

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1 minute ago, Scorpio64 said:

Nope, I sure dont.  But the fact is there were a lot of posts warning on the pitfall of constructive intent. 

At any rate, I'm a remy 870 lover, but bought a shockwave just to avoid the exact scenario you mentioned.

There are still people saying you can't stop to use the bathroom going or coming from the range, you will be arrested for one hollow point, and other things,which don't happen.

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2 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

There are still people saying you can't stop to use the bathroom going or coming from the range, you will be arrested for one hollow point, and other things,which don't happen.

This... in reality it all depends on what else is going on and if you are to be made example out of or not... (i.e. what else have you done?)

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3 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

There are still people saying you can't stop to use the bathroom going or coming from the range, you will be arrested for one hollow point, and other things,which don't happen.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing the hundreds of people who got busted with those 15+ round mags the last decade or so...

Oh, wait, that didn't happen.

So, are you saying I can hide my existing 15 round mags in a shoe box in my closet and not worry about the black SUVs and SWAT Team showing up, kicking in my door, shooting my dog and arresting me for 10+ round mags come Dec. 11th?

 

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3 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Yeah, it's pretty amazing the hundreds of people who got busted with those 15+ round mags the last decade or so...

Oh, wait, that didn't happen.

So, are you saying I can hide my existing 15 round mags in a shoe box in my closet and not worry about the black SUVs and SWAT Team showing up, kicking in my door, shooting my dog and arresting me for 10+ round mags come Dec. 11th?

 

Actually, IT DID!

Aiken was busted for precisely that!  (going back to my example, he got busted for this amongst other things.

Same with the hallow point charges, has been routinely used as an add on charge.

You just don't hear people talking about it all of the time.

Also you have to keep in mind who the last governor was in the last decade?  Not exactly people who were gun ho on pushing gun control.

If Murphy wants to really push it, he can easily have his AG make examples of people starting with calling towns and asking for copies of pistol permits which were supposed to be destroyed after 30 days but we all know they are still there in a filing cabinet in every town.

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Just now, Maksim said:

Actually, IT DID!

Aiken was busted for precisely that! 

Yeah, I know he was busted, out of how many thousands of 15+ mags that exist in the state right now and were being used?

There's probably a better chance of getting hit by lightening or winning the lottery.

 

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3 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Yeah, I know he was busted, out of how many thousands of 15+ mags that exist in the state right now and were being used?

There's probably a better chance of getting hit by lightening or winning the lottery.

 

I think you are missing the point... 15+ round mags are not YET illegal, nor does anyone here have a freaking clue about how badly Murphy will instruct his AG to enforce this.

Will they go door to door?  I highly doubt it, BUT... if you are shooting at a public range?  Bet your ass I would not be bringing them out in public.

I am almost certain the public ranges are going to get letters fairly soon asking for users of 15 round mags.

Again... NJ HAS NOT had a truly anti-gun governor in the past 15+ years.

Edit:  Just saw you have Range 14 in your profile... it is places LIKE Range 14 where you are most likely to get popped.  RO's routinely walk there inspecting guns to make sure they are compliant.

In most ranges, you also have cameras, they can easily count how many times your gun goes off before you reload.

Yes, there will be millions of 10+ round magazines out there,  but very few will be stupid enough to shoot them in public.

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Also now that I think about it, years ago, I believe there was a guy who was busted for 16 rounds in his Marlin tube fed rifle, something that was very vague in the law about a tube being a magazine which lead to some changes.  

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1 minute ago, Maksim said:

Will they go door to door?  I highly doubt it, BUT... if you are shooting at a public range?  Bet your ass I would not be bringing them out in public.

I am almost certain the public ranges are going to get letters fairly soon asking for users of 15 round mags.

Actually, I was at the range today, and with the grace period approaching in a few weeks, I was wondering if they would be posting any notices or warnings or doing any checking of mags. Nothing was posted and the ROs weren't asking.

 

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Just now, Maksim said:

Also now that I think about it, years ago, I believe there was a guy who was busted for 16 rounds in his Marlin tube fed rifle, something that was very vague in the law about a tube being a magazine which lead to some changes.  

It was probably a Model 60.  The anti semi-auto political machine grinding law abiding citizens into dust.  Tube fed is a whole other animal because you can put ammo with a very short OAL in the tube.   I dunno how many 22 shorts or CBs I canfi t in my 39D, but I know for sure its way over 15.

I think the laws have relaxed on tube fed, since they cannot be quickly reloaded.

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Just now, Sniper22 said:

Actually, I was at the range today, and with the grace period approaching in a few weeks, I was wondering if they would be posting any notices or warnings or doing any checking of mags. Nothing was posted and the ROs weren't asking.

 

Give it time.

Years ago when I shot there, with one of Ty's @MidwestPX pinned 15/30 magazines, immediately I had an RO come out and want to take a look at it.   Countless others have also had their guns looked at, whether stocks were pinned or not, etc.

Again, are you likely to get busted?  chances are low as it is... BUT, if you get pulled over or do something else, you better believe the book will be thrown at you.

You generally do not get busted for guns, you get busted for guns when you are doing other stupid stuff.

Murphy is NOT just a democrat or a liberal one at that, Murphy is ANTI GUN and ran on that agenda... that should be exceptionally scary!

Just now, Scorpio64 said:

It was probably a Model 60.  The anti semi-auto political machine grinding law abiding citizens into dust.  Tube fed is a whole other animal because you can put ammo with a very short OAL in the tube.   I dunno how many 22 shorts or CBs I canfi t in my 39D, but I know for sure its way over 15.

I think the laws have relaxed on tube fed, since they cannot be quickly reloaded.

You don't have one of these then?

http://www.spee-d-loader.net/spee-d-loader/

 

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34 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Yeah, it's pretty amazing the hundreds of people who got busted with those 15+ round mags the last decade or so...

Oh, wait, that didn't happen.

So, are you saying I can hide my existing 15 round mags in a shoe box in my closet and not worry about the black SUVs and SWAT Team showing up, kicking in my door, shooting my dog and arresting me for 10+ round mags come Dec. 11th?

 

A 14.5" barrel is not illegal unless its connected to a long gun.

Over 15 Rd magazines have been illegal in NJ for some time.  I don't know of anyone who was arrested ONLY for possession of a >15 Rd magazine.  The magazine.  There was always a gun involved.  If you know of someone arrested for only a  >15 Rd magazine please let me know.

Don't try to put words in my mouth.  I never suggested you hide your 15 Rd magazines in your closet after Dec 10th. That would be illegal.

Do you really think SWAT will be kicking in doors and serving search warrants for >10 Rd magazines on December 11th?

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18 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

I don't know of anyone who was arrested ONLY for possession of a >15 Rd magazine.  The magazine.  There was always a gun involved.  If you know of someone arrested for only a  >15 Rd magazine please let me know.

I don't, and there's only been less than a handful arrested for having them in conjunction of doing something else unlawful. But, there's TONS of fear by many that think they're next.

19 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Don't try to put words in my mouth.  I never suggested you hide your 15 Rd magazines in your closet after Dec 10th. That would be illegal.

Do you really think SWAT will be kicking in doors and serving search warrants for >10 Rd magazines on December 11th?

Wow, someone really gets cranky this late at night. :)

I think you'll see plenty of 10+ mags at the ranges come Dec. 11th, Dec 20th, Dec. 28th, Jan 3, etc., so worrying if SWAT will be kicking in doors is slim to none. Once Murphy's Brown Coats start dragging out patrons from ranges in cuffs, then I'll be concerned.

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Do you really think SWAT will be kicking in doors and serving search warrants for >10 Rd magazines on December 11th?

No, but if you get caught with one, life will have become very complicated and expensive.

Let's face reality for a minute.  Law abiding citizens will comply, even if they agree NJ laws are bullshit.  Only criminals and stupid people who push the envelope will get caught with >10rd mags.  In the latter case, a person with an otherwise clean record will have that charge hanging over them for the rest  of their life.

Bottom line, do whatever the fuck you want to do and take your chances.

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51 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Actually, IT DID!

Aiken was busted for precisely that!  (going back to my example, he got busted for this amongst other things.

Same with the hallow point charges, has been routinely used as an add on charge.

You just don't hear people talking about it all of the time.

Also you have to keep in mind who the last governor was in the last decade?  Not exactly people who were gun ho on pushing gun control.

If Murphy wants to really push it, he can easily have his AG make examples of people starting with calling towns and asking for copies of pistol permits which were supposed to be destroyed after 30 days but we all know they are still there in a filing cabinet in every town.

Aitken's problem didn't start with the police searching his car.  They started when he said something that worried his mother so much she called the police.

I never heard of police departments having to destroy copies of pistol permits.  Don't remember reading that in the statutes or administrative code.

In any case, they don't have to ask police departments to provide copies of pistol permits.  The info from the NJSP copy of the P2P is entered in a database.  I'm sure they could query Glock 17, Glock 19, Beretta 92, SIG226, and every other pistol that can accept a >10 Rd magazine.  There are 1000s more of those than handguns that can accept a >15 Rd magazine when the AWB was passed.  I can't see how possession of any of these handguns constitutes probable cause for a warrant.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

I don't, and there's only been less than a handful arrested for having them in conjunction of doing something else unlawful. But, there's TONS of fear by many that think they're next.

Wow, someone really gets cranky this late at night. :)

I think you'll see plenty of 10+ mags at the ranges come Dec. 11th, Dec 20th, Dec. 28th, Jan 3, etc., so worrying if SWAT will be kicking in doors is slim to none. Once Murphy's Brown Coats start dragging out patrons from ranges in cuffs, then I'll be concerned.

 

 

 

Not cranky.  Just correcting "are you saying".

I'm sure someone will show up at a range with >10 Rd magaines after Dec10th.  We'll see what happens.

BTW, does possession of a shotgun with a 26" barrel and a hacksaw constitute constructive possession?

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