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Ray Ray

Paddle vs push-button, which is more better?

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I recently had a discussion with a certain forum member here who clearly showed his stupidity.  We were discussing magazine releases on handguns.  I stated that the paddle release was superior to push button.  There are a few reasons.  They are:

1.  Ambidextrous in use

2.  Less of a chance of the magazine being accidentally pressed and falling out

3.  The firearm is slimmer

4.  It is more positive in feel and function

Discuss

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I’m not as good as y’all.  I’ve had both button (226) and paddle (vp9).  I prefer button but I think that’s just what I started with so the muscle memory is a little more established.  I don’t think one is superior to the other.  Other than paddle being ambidextrous, the differences come down to training. 

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9 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

I’m not as good as y’all.  I’ve had both button (226) and paddle (vp9).  I prefer button but I think that’s just what I started with so the muscle memory is a little more established.  I don’t think one is superior to the other.  Other than paddle being ambidextrous, the differences come down to training. 

Na .. they all suck also. Stick with what you’re familiar with. Duress= muscle memory time.  @Ray Ray is lefti

@sota is jus ... whatever 

@checko I’ve yet to had the pleasure 

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:deadhorse:

sorry, can't help but feel like this is old.

It is purely based on ergonomics for me. If I can actuate the button on a pistol without shifting my grip, I prefer a button. If it has a larger/awkward grip, or no way of integrating a button without interfering with support hand grip, a paddle will get the job done.

I just don't care for the action of shifting the trigger finger around. You already use the thumb for the slide stop and safety, so why not magazine release? Oh, and before you say you can use your thumb for a paddle release, cannot.

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My only experience with paddles is on airsoft HKs.  They seem to be reasonably easy to use, and I never had a problem switching back and forth between paddle and button, using the correct release on either.  It seems that I quickly adapt to the controls on most of the pistols I have handled.  That said, virtually all my pistols are button release, and I will likely keep it that way (like a PPQ M2 over a PPQ), mainly for muscle memory.  I think I could go with a paddle release and run it OK, but it wouldn't be my first choice if I had the option of a button. 

 

Now, if you asked about a heel release...that I would never buy.

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Now, if you asked about a heel release...that I would never buy.


For a gun I’d put my life on? Probably not. Maybe the only exception I’ve seen people carry is a Makarov.

But for collectible firearms, no issue. Actually, I have five or so pistols with heel releases on my list to buy (a Makarov is one). My old P38 also had one, and while not optimal, it functioned well and allowed me to shoot 9mm for a few years until I bought my Beretta. With a heel release, speed is traded off for retention. I’ve never heard of a magazine unintentionally popping out of a heel release.

Button over paddle... for me. Not that a paddle is terrible, but having 12 pistols with button releases, it is sort of more familiar to me. Only other gun I’ve owned without a button release was that P38... and I didn’t own anything other than that and a revolver back then.

CBP issues the .40 P2000, at least for the next year or two, so I’ve been shooting my father’s USP40 Compact to get some familiarity with it (LEM, as well). It isn’t that hard to train on, but is still something different. When they switch, they are going 9mm, striker fired, optics ready, likely with a traditional button release (was preferred in the request, but paddle was allowed)... and from word of people within the agency, one of the pistols will be chosen as an issue pistol, with maybe two alternates to be authorized for private purchase. So, likely Glock, SIG P320... and possibly something else (Beretta APX was mentioned, but likely won’t know until March).

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Paddle - BAD, Button - Good!

I want all my guns to operate the same, don't want oddball ones with paddles.  Also too easy to accidentally get your finger in the trigger guard if you miss the paddle. If paddles were the be all and end all Walther would not have switched the PPQ from paddle to button.

 

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On 11/29/2018 at 11:00 PM, ChrisJM981 said:

PPQ...err.... paddle. Short fingers mean I have to change my grip on a push button. 

Short thick fingers made the paddles far better for me on the PPQ, but other handguns with smaller grip areas let me reach a button ok. 

But the optional grip backs made the PPQ my most comfortable in the hand.

I have several button ones and one bottom release, all work fine, just that some are more suited to different purposes. In a self defense world, my paddle one suits me best. For fun, all are good. PPQ gets the most practice, just in case. And I agree that muscle memory means a lot. 

I also practice swinging a 12 oz. finish hammer with my off hand. 

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On 11/29/2018 at 5:38 PM, Ray Ray said:

I recently had a discussion with a certain forum member here who clearly showed his stupidity.  We were discussing magazine releases on handguns.  I stated that the paddle release was superior to push button.  There are a few reasons.  They are:

1.  Ambidextrous in use

2.  Less of a chance of the magazine being accidentally pressed and falling out

3.  The firearm is slimmer

4.  It is more positive in feel and function

Discuss

"clearly showed his stupidity"

Tsk, tsk, tsk,,,,,,,,,I know that you know that the word "stupidity" only applies to "libtards". :p

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Paddle - BAD, Button - Good!
I want all my guns to operate the same, don't want oddball ones with paddles.  Also too easy to accidentally get your finger in the trigger guard if you miss the paddle. If paddles were the be all and end all Walther would not have switched the PPQ from paddle to button.
 


I dont think that last part is necessarily true. Walther and hk have had the paddle release for decades. I think it is closer to your first point, where people have mostly button releases and arent familiar with it. Walther recognized it and just put a button on it to be more widely accepted, not because it was not as good.

I think it's a matter of preference rather than a matter of what's more gooder.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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I like the more gooder ;)  Yea, was just making a comment, don't think from a functional point of view one is better or worse.  But there is something to be said about consistency.  I don't want to have to think about which gun I have in my hand and what I have to do to release the mag - there are enough things to have to think about be it in a gun fight or just in competition.  I want the mag release to work the same on all my guns.  That is why I waited till they came out with the M2 to buy a PPQ.

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Isn't the whole reason people "hate" on the serpa holster because you have to manipulate the locking device too close to the trigger guard?

I am curious why in that situation its bad, but here it's good? I think of the possibilities of a stressful situation and mitigating the actions of the firearm correctly preventing a AD. FYI I've never used a paddle mag release,.

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On 12/1/2018 at 11:27 AM, JackDaWack said:

Isn't the whole reason people "hate" on the serpa holster because you have to manipulate the locking device too close to the trigger guard?

I am curious why in that situation its bad, but here it's good? I think of the possibilities of a stressful situation and mitigating the actions of the firearm correctly preventing a AD. FYI I've never used a paddle mag release,.

This is the reason why I don't like the push button safety's on remingtion and Benelli shotguns. 

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5 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

Walther PPQ M2 has push button.

The grip to guard connection is a detriment to a good grip on the M2. That is why I have a Classic frame with a Q5 slide. Skip to 3:30 to see the difference.

 

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I believe paddle releases are just a better design and option, but the masses have been brainwashed into using an older method of releasing a magazine.  Hell, there are still coppers all over the flat earth still operating with heal releases.

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The grip to guard connection is a detriment to a good grip on the M2. That is why I have a Classic frame with a Q5 slide. Skip to 3:30 to see the difference.
 
I've been wanting to buy the 5" upper for my classic. When I was looking into it I was concerned there would be an issue with holsters. Do you know if the difference on frames affects holster selection?

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2 minutes ago, checko said:

I've been wanting to buy the 5" upper for my classic. When I was looking into it I was concerned there would be an issue with holsters. Do you know if the difference on frames affects holster selection?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

Not in my experience

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Isn't the whole reason people "hate" on the serpa holster because you have to manipulate the locking device too close to the trigger guard?
I am curious why in that situation its bad, but here it's good? I think of the possibilities of a stressful situation and mitigating the actions of the firearm correctly preventing a AD. FYI I've never used a paddle mag release,.
Theres definitely more to hate on the serpa than the use of the finger. Overall they aren't very well made. Also for what it's worth, I used one early on when I first got my 1911 and never once had my trigger finger fall into the trigger guard while drawing.

The way I've used my M1 to drip the magazine is to have my index finger across the trigger guard and activate the lever with my middle finger. I dont have to move my grip with my bottom 2 fingers and I have never felt like I was in danger of accidentally activating the trigger with my finger. My pointer helps me index where my middle finger goes and helps block the trigger at the same time

Ymmv

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59 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

I believe paddle releases are just a better design and option, but the masses have been brainwashed into using an older method of releasing a magazine.  Hell, there are still coppers all over the flat earth still operating with heal releases.

Button or paddle is fine either way with me .. really depends on the size of the hand and the comfort and speed of which one can release the mag.  As long as heal releases dont make a comeback im good lol

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48 minutes ago, checko said:

Theres definitely more to hate on the serpa than the use of the finger. Overall they aren't very well made. Also for what it's worth, I used one early on when I first got my 1911 and never once had my trigger finger fall into the trigger guard while drawing.

The way I've used my M1 to drip the magazine is to have my index finger across the trigger guard and activate the lever with my middle finger. I dont have to move my grip with my bottom 2 fingers and I have never felt like I was in danger of accidentally activating the trigger with my finger. My pointer helps me index where my middle finger goes and helps block the trigger at the same time

Ymmv

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

I know they have issue's with getting dirty and the retention release not working properly, but thats NOT why many instructors and schools forbid their use. They specifically mention how dangerous they are to draw from. I was just curious how we're differentiating between similar manipulations of our fingers near the trigger. 

As I look at paddle releases, I can definitely see the ergonomics are improved over button.

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On 12/1/2018 at 11:27 AM, JackDaWack said:

Isn't the whole reason people "hate" on the serpa holster because you have to manipulate the locking device too close to the trigger guard?

 

I've used a SERPA for Glock and for my Px4 as well - it all comes down to how people push the button.  If you lay your finger down along the channel and push using the side of your finger, you index straight to the frame or trigger guard.  Never once have I drawn it and put my booger picker into the trigger guard.  

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I have a serpa for my px4 compact, and I find the ergonomics of the retention system to be great, I have similar results as your own. It was purchased well before the hysteria came out about them. I have a safariland sls for my M9a1 with light, and while it's easy enough to use the ergonomics of dropping the retention system with your thumb is a bit more difficult. 

I didn't want to drift the thread, so I'll ask, it looks like you can use your thumb to actuate the paddle? How do you guys manage the manipulation while ensuring you won't AD, especially making it "idiot proof" as in a reload under extreme circumstances.

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