MartyZ 691 Posted December 8, 2018 All my 15 round AR mags are currently in the possession of the USPS, on their way to FL. And ironically, they are in a "Target" box. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danno 127 Posted December 8, 2018 I'm going to bring all my 15s to the local Home Depot and hand them out to all the amigos looking for work. Then I'm gonna call the cops and watch to see what happens. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted December 8, 2018 4 hours ago, cabalrayz said: they said it for years because we've had restricted mags for a while now 15 rounds. are you suggesting the rules for blocked 10 round mags are different than the blocked 15 were had. That seems to be what people were saying for 15s. For one, the Hexmags are easily changeable back to 30 with just a spring change, the floor plates weren't glued, pinned or riveted. Now the interpretation for the 10s are that they have to be glued or welded so they can't be taken apart. I also know of two other suppliers who were selling 15/20 claiming they were "NJ Compliant", and they had blockers and removable bottom plates, so once the blocker was removed, it became a 20. They were not considered "permanent". No rivets, welding or glue anywhere to be found. I find it hard to believe these suppliers would sell these into NJ if there was clear guidance from the NJSP on how they were to be secured. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,134 Posted December 8, 2018 8 hours ago, Sniper22 said: That seems to be what people were saying for 15s. For one, the Hexmags are easily changeable back to 30 with just a spring change, the floor plates weren't glued, pinned or riveted. Now the interpretation for the 10s are that they have to be glued or welded so they can't be taken apart. I also know of two other suppliers who were selling 15/20 claiming they were "NJ Compliant", and they had blockers and removable bottom plates, so once the blocker was removed, it became a 20. They were not considered "permanent". No rivets, welding or glue anywhere to be found. I find it hard to believe these suppliers would sell these into NJ if there was clear guidance from the NJSP on how they were to be secured. Caveat emptor. NJ law is the bottom line power at work here not some retailer and the bottom line word is permanent. If Hexmag Inc asked the NJSP if these mags were gtg what do you think would happen? I think it's been a don't ask don't tell thing and by good fortune so far it hasn't been an issue as to force the laws hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHZR2 56 Posted December 8, 2018 1 hour ago, siderman said: Caveat emptor. NJ law is the bottom line power at work here not some retailer and the bottom line word is permanent. If Hexmag Inc asked the NJSP if these mags were gtg what do you think would happen? I think it's been a don't ask don't tell thing and by good fortune so far it hasn't been an issue as to force the laws hand. The thing with hexmag versus other variants is that there is a riser and shorter spring. If you remove the riser, the mag is useless. Yes, you could buy longer springs... but you could also go to DE or PA and buy a bigger mag... which is why this is so idiotic. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kawi7 52 Posted December 8, 2018 The bottom line is the wording of the law is : b. Render the semi-automatic rifle or magazine inoperable 1or permanently modify a large capacity ammunition magazine to accept 10 rounds or less1; There are no definitions written out for the “permanently” in the law. There is nothing stated how or what constitutes making it permanent such as riviets, pins, epoxy, blocks, cutting down magbody, etc.. What the state police put out on how to modify mags or what mags are ok, such as Hexmags, is their iinterpretation or guidelines as to what they consider permanent. As I understand it, the state police does not make law, nor can they add or delete text from the law. They can however, as can your local police, Sheriff, etc, charge you with having a high capacity magazine based on their interpretation of permanently. If that were to happen and you fought it, the decision on permanently would ultimately be made by a judge or jury.. Those of us who are discussing this matter are trying to avoid getting jammed up in the first place. If anyone knows if there is any case law on this matter, please post it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted December 8, 2018 2 hours ago, siderman said: Caveat emptor. NJ law is the bottom line power at work here not some retailer and the bottom line word is permanent. If Hexmag Inc asked the NJSP if these mags were gtg what do you think would happen? 37 minutes ago, Kawi7 said: If anyone knows if there is any case law on this matter, please post it. And that, right there, is the issue. The retailer decided what they felt was acceptable when they sold the reduced mags, because there was no clear guidance back in the 1990s what was permanent. Does anyone know of someone being busted by the NJSP because the floorplates weren't epoxied on their 15/30 mags? Anyone? How may decades have these reduced mags been floating around at the ranges? 39 minutes ago, Kawi7 said: As I understand it, the state police does not make law, nor can they add or delete text from the law. They can however, as can your local police, Sheriff, etc, charge you with having a high capacity magazine based on their interpretation of permanently. If that were to happen and you fought it, the decision on permanently would ultimately be made by a judge or jury I don't believe it would EVER get to that point. If by slim chance, a local LEO asks about a mag, and you show them it can only take 10 rounds, that would be the end of the questioning. Worrying if a LEO will be taking out his inspection tools to see how much epoxy you used, or the diameter of the pins or rivets, is fantasy land. Even moving to a court or jury to have it argued if your mag was "permanent" will NEVER happen. The bottom line, the LEOs have way too many other things going on than to sit there and count how many rounds fit into your mags. You guys need to come out from hiding under your beds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kawi7 52 Posted December 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, Sniper22 said: And that, right there, is the issue. The retailer decided what they felt was acceptable when they sold the reduced mags, because there was no clear guidance back in the 1990s what was permanent. Does anyone know of someone being busted by the NJSP because the floorplates weren't epoxied on their 15/30 mags? Anyone? How may decades have these reduced mags been floating around at the ranges? I don't believe it would EVER get to that point. If by slim chance, a local LEO asks about a mag, and you show them it can only take 10 rounds, that would be the end of the questioning. Worrying if a LEO will be taking out his inspection tools to see how much epoxy you used, or the diameter of the pins or rivets, is fantasy land. Even moving to a court or jury to have it argued if your mag was "permanent" will NEVER happen. The bottom line, the LEOs have way too many other things going on than to sit there and count how many rounds fit into your mags. You guys need to come out from hiding under your beds. You’re right.. They wouldn’t bother with just the magazines alone... It would only be used in conjunction with some other weapons or drug charge, where a search warrant was used and they wanted to tack on as many charges as possible.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHZR2 56 Posted December 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Kawi7 said: The bottom line is the wording of the law is : b. Render the semi-automatic rifle or magazine inoperable 1or permanently modify a large capacity ammunition magazine to accept 10 rounds or less1; There are no definitions written out for the “permanently” in the law. There is nothing stated how or what constitutes making it permanent such as riviets, pins, epoxy, blocks, cutting down magbody, etc.. What the state police put out on how to modify mags or what mags are ok, such as Hexmags, is their iinterpretation or guidelines as to what they consider permanent. As I understand it, the state police does not make law, nor can they add or delete text from the law. They can however, as can your local police, Sheriff, etc, charge you with having a high capacity magazine based on their interpretation of permanently. If that were to happen and you fought it, the decision on permanently would ultimately be made by a judge or jury.. Those of us who are discussing this matter are trying to avoid getting jammed up in the first place. If anyone knows if there is any case law on this matter, please post it. This is the crux of the situation. There is no objective standard for defining “permanent”. I once used pop rivets to fix the underbody panels on a vehicle of mine after a retread came off on the highway. It was/is a “permanent” fix. So what is the standard? In a related note, is there a proper definition of “pin”?? A pin can mean many things. A roll pin with epoxy over the hole could theoretically be pulled out or drilled out. But it seems many mags sold in state are done that way. Again, lack of objective standard... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted December 8, 2018 3 hours ago, Kawi7 said: You’re right.. They wouldn’t bother with just the magazines alone... It would only be used in conjunction with some other weapons or drug charge, where a search warrant was used and they wanted to tack on as many charges as possible.. Exactly... the few cases that ever happened were due to some other BIGGER legal issue, and the mags got tagged in the fog. So, unless posters here are running guns or dealing large amounts of drugs or robbing banks, the odds are, they will be fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 691 Posted December 13, 2018 Well, here we go, plastic to plastic epoxy. This is as permanent as it will get, that floor plate is not moving anywhere. And believe me, I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, MartyZ said: Well, here we go, plastic to plastic epoxy. This is as permanent as it will get, that floor plate is not moving anywhere. And believe me, I tried. Ugh.... just want to cry.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 691 Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Maksim said: Ugh.... just want to cry.... I know, it's fugly, but you do what you gotta do. I will see if it will hold paint. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilred121986 45 Posted December 13, 2018 I bought 2 10 round mag blocks from magblocks site, went bought jbweld epoxy removed the floor plate as instruced and epoxied the mags closed. over night hard as cement and cant open. without messing the mag up. even did my 10/30 hexplates that has removable floor. ppl said they are ok in NJ but i dont want to take the chance, too many Anti douchers to keep em non epoxied. This is just me. when i move to a free state i might sell or pick a random unlucky nj gun owner and give em away lol that is if they dont pass the bill for 5 rounds in a month. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 691 Posted December 13, 2018 The reason I did it this way is to make sure the magblock was all the way forward prior to applying epoxy. Since this is a USP45 mag, double stack .45, the magblock base plate is considerably smaller then the mag itself and had a tendency to slide backward resulting in the magazine baseplate sliding forward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted December 13, 2018 I used DAP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 691 Posted December 13, 2018 This is what I used, hens the fugly color https://www.homedepot.com/p/J-B-Weld-0-85-oz-Plastic-Bonder-50133H/303710788 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted December 13, 2018 DAP here https://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-RapidFuse-0-85-oz-Clear-All-Purpose-Adhesive-01555/206767140 also, the cleaning mags concerns are kind of over the top. Cleaning mags is easy and you really don't need to disassemble them unless you are in Fallujah...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted December 15, 2018 ok, upon careful inspection I feel confident that if I were to try to remove the base plate from my mags after applying the DAP Rapid Fuse, the base plate would break off. Pretty strong stuff and dried clear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Underdog 1,593 Posted January 28, 2019 Why don't the manufacturers design adjustable mags that allow you to set whatever round count is fashion and not have any count labeling on the outside? When will we need to fill in 5 of our revolver holes with permanent epoxy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites