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Over the past few weeks we have seen an increase in the amounts of new shooters visiting the forum, asking questions in anticipation of the December 10th deadline.  On one hand, I don't believe when it comes to gun safety and legality there are stupid questions... such as the topic here... The new gun law and transporting magazines started by @FreeNJ, a new forum member.  And yes... without a doubt... hundreds of thousands of NJ gun owners are going to be criminals on Monday....  

But... are our own 2A "leaders" for the lack of a better word in NJ going a bit overboard with fear mongering?

We talked about this in chat today... and if you have not, you should check out the NJGF Chat.  One thing I mentioned was the daily messages from ANJRPC counting down the days until the mag ban... yes, I know.. Monday... do we need a daily message discussing it and of course a daily plug for a business that will hold those mags for you for a fee per magazine?  (after 12 months of which you are better off just buying new mags).  Again, don't have too many issues.

And then I went on facebook and found this gem...

fear monger.JPG

 

My response to that is...

jiFfM.jpg

So what do you think?  Overboard?  Or are the black helicopters going door to door for Christmas?  (Too late for Chanukah, tomorrow is the last day).  (Btw.. just don't blame the mag ban on the Jews... or Putin... I beg of you.)

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1 minute ago, vladtepes said:

the whole paying someone to babysit your mags is crazy to me.. 
 

NOT being pessimistic.. but is it even remotely likely that the case can be pushed any further / overturned in a time frame that makes it a cost effective solution?

 

It works for someone who goes to shoot with them in PA or what not... BUT if it is a glock mag, or something else common and readily available for $15 to $20... why bother?  You are going to waste more money on gas driving to PA. lol.  Guns... makes a difference.  

Really though, FFL's should have loaner high cap mags... is that legal?  FFL owns them... only using at the range.

I wouldn't butcher and modify 15 round mags to 10 round either... just buy 10 round mags... otherwise, you have no way of cleaning that "permanently modified" magazine, especially if you block it on the bottom and epoxy it in place. 

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While I agree with you Maksim, the daily ad's in the e-mail are very distasteful. But we need to keep this in perspective, overall it is a small matter, and ANJRPC, which so many of us have donated to for the two lawsuits this year, is doing all of us a great service. With the amazing fact that our fellow citizen's, gun owners or not, allowed Murphy to get in, with the amazing fact how inept the Republican Party has been at the federal level to help those in lefty states, ANJRPC is all we got. They are doing 95% good stuff, I can tolerate the 5% which misses the mark some.

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There are quite a few people in NJ who make a decent living around NJ gun laws.....

There will be no black helicopters, there will be no door to door searches - it is all fear mongering and that is correct.

There are things known as warrants that are needed for searches and seizures....

Imagine IF, AND I SAY IF, you ARE targeted by annillegal search and seizure attempt and ypu are IN full compliance.....  i would submit that you have a very large probable cause with high monetary damages, of a civil suit against the state.

The ANJRPC IMO should be ashamed that they advertised for gunsitters and that they continue to do so.

If you did not see a ten round limit mag law coming years ago, you really dont pay attention.....

Modify a john inglis hinpower mag?  No i dont think so...however, it resides in a free state tillni get outta dodge.

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25 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

While I agree with you Maksim, the daily ad's in the e-mail are very distasteful. But we need to keep this in perspective, overall it is a small matter, and ANJRPC, which so many of us have donated to for the two lawsuits this year, is doing all of us a great service. With the amazing fact that our fellow citizen's, gun owners or not, allowed Murphy to get in, with the amazing fact how inept the Republican Party has been at the federal level to help those in lefty states, ANJRPC is all we got. They are doing 95% good stuff, I can tolerate the 5% which misses the mark some.

 

19 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

There are quite a few people in NJ who make a decent living around NJ gun laws.....

There will be no black helicopters, there will be no door to door searches - it is all fear mongering and that is correct.

There are things known as warrants that are needed for searches and seizures....

Imagine IF, AND I SAY IF, you ARE targeted by annillegal search and seizure attempt and ypu are IN full compliance.....  i would submit that you have a very large probable cause with high monetary damages, of a civil suit against the state.

The ANJRPC IMO should be ashamed that they advertised for gunsitters and that they continue to do so.

If you did not see a ten round limit mag law coming years ago, you really dont pay attention.....

Modify a john inglis hinpower mag?  No i dont think so...however, it resides in a free state tillni get outta dodge.

I agree with both statements above. And as distasteful as it is I believe one of the emails stated a portion of the storage fees were donated back to ANJRPC. A little dancing with the devil but funding is funding. 

 

And yes, if they take my stuff in an illegal search and seizure I’ll buy even more after my civil rights settlement is awarded. 

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I feel like many in our community here have willingly taken a pair of scissors and severed their own testicles.  

"Turn in your 15 rounders."  Yes sir!  I don't want any trouble.

"Turn in your AR15s."  Okay fine.  I really don't want any trouble.

"Turn in your handguns."  Oh well.  I want to stay out of trouble.

"Turn in your shotguns."  Ummm, I had enough!  

Too late asshole, your unarmed.

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So war game this thread - 


According to Nappen - you own a registered handgun in NJ that can take a Hi Cap mag - expect a knock at the door.

NJSP - arrives at your place of residence -

NJSP - Knock Knock (John Doe Answers): Mr. John Doe Good day - as you may or may not know the laws in NJ have changed and you own a handgun (shows registration paperwork) that can take a high capacity magazine.  We are here to claim it and arrest you - if you have not modified it or you disposed of it.  May we come in to speak about it?

John Doe - No you may not enter my home - no ( insert answer here - I no longer have it, I modified it, I destroyed it )

NJSP - Well can you please somehow verify ( any of the answers above ) your statements, and can we take a look around.

John Doe - I cannot verify (any answer listed above ) and no you cannot come in and look around - get a warrant, please stop harassing me.

NJSP - (Does one of three things (leaves and gets a warrant)(leaves and never returns)(pushes their way in))

Pick your flavor - 

 

Handguns are one thing - they could have probable cause for a search - but what exactly are they searching for (pistol mag) OK check that box - but where?

Let alone how are they going to supposedly know anything about rifle mags?  They cannot without some serious manpower that they do not have.

The way you will get jammed up is in a traffic stop - domestic - home fire etc.

This has been coming for years - if you are only thinking about it today - you are well behind the bell curve in intelligence quotient.

 

 

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1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

So war game this thread - 


According to Nappen - you own a registered handgun in NJ that can take a Hi Cap mag - expect a knock at the door.

NJSP - arrives at your place of residence -

NJSP - Knock Knock (John Doe Answers): Mr. John Doe Good day - as you may or may not know the laws in NJ have changed and you own a handgun (shows registration paperwork) that can take a high capacity magazine.  We are here to claim it and arrest you - if you have not modified it or you disposed of it.  May we come in to speak about it?

John Doe - No you may not enter my home - no ( insert answer here - I no longer have it, I modified it, I destroyed it )

NJSP - Well can you please somehow verify ( any of the answers above ) your statements, and can we take a look around.

John Doe - I cannot verify (any answer listed above ) and no you cannot come in and look around - get a warrant, please stop harassing me.

NJSP - (Does one of three things (leaves and gets a warrant)(leaves and never returns)(pushes their way in))

Pick your flavor - 

 

Handguns are one thing - they could have probable cause for a search - but what exactly are they searching for (pistol mag) OK check that box - but where?

Let alone how are they going to supposedly know anything about rifle mags?  They cannot without some serious manpower that they do not have.

The way you will get jammed up is in a traffic stop - domestic - home fire etc.

This has been coming for years - if you are only thinking about it today - you are well behind the bell curve in intelligence quotient.

 

 

Nappen's scenario will not happen.  Owning a gun that accepts a >10 Rd magazine is not probable cause for a warrant.  Otherwise all of us who own ARs, Mini 14s, and other long guns could be subject to having a search warrant issued because we may have purchased a 20 or 30 Rd magazine in another state.  I solved my magazine issue for ARs long ago when the Federal AWB expired.  Suppliers were dumping quality 10 Rd magazines for as little as $5 each.  The few 15rd AR magazines I had have been disposed of.  I did the same with 10 Rd magazines for handguns.  Reloading is a valuable training point on the range and 10 Rd magazines make you do it more often.  My >10 Rd handgun magazines have  been properly taken care of.

Saying possession of a >10 Rd capable handgun is less than probable cause for being drunk in your living room, having your car in the driveway, and being arrested for drunk driving.  Now drunk driving is the only mv violation you can be arrested for on private property.  If I'm wrong any current LEO please correct me.  If you're drunk and move your car in your driveway you could be arrested.

I have never been a fan of Nappen.  I've never seen him win any big cases.  If I'm wrong someone please tell me.

Nappen is a fearmonger.  He is the type of lawyer that if asked "what should I do" he responds with "do nothing".  IANAL but I've dealt with a lot of lawyers in my adult life. As prosecutors and defense attorneys.  It wouldn't surprise me if Nappen said "don't have any guns and I'll guarantee you won't have any gun problems".  He is a grandstander.  

There is no plan to enforce the 10 Rd magazine law in NJ because it's a "feel good" law just like the AWB.

The >10 Rd magazine law will be enforced like the >15 Rd magazine law.

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19 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

If I'm wrong any current LEO please correct me.  If you're drunk and move your car in your driveway you could be arrested.

I'll be interested in this answer.  I know from a "situation" I had if your behind the wheel with the motor running you're operating the vehicle.  People who pull off to use their cell or sit in a parking lot can get nailed. They should exit the car.  But your own driveway? @High Exposure?  Or else I'll wait for some people to get their butts out of bed and make a call or two.  

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6 hours ago, Maksim said:

So what do you think?  Overboard?  Or are the black helicopters going door to door for Christmas?  (Too late for Chanukah, tomorrow is the last day).  (Btw.. just don't blame the mag ban on the Jews... or Putin... I beg of you.)

Overboard. The Gestapo will collect them during a welfare visit (S. Moore situation),  house fire, traffic stop, or the dreaded Temporary Restraining Order. The fault lies with Loretta Weinberg, Steve Sweeney, and their dirtbag socialist supporters. 

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Here is your last chance.  Take your 11+ round magazines and mail them (UPS or FedEx too) to prominent Democrats and other Anti Gun jerks.  Then drop a dime to the state police reporting these people as being felons in possession of illegal objects.  Remember all they have to do is have them, they don't even have to have a gun.  This will solve many problems.

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2 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

There are things known as warrants that are needed for searches and seizures....

I wouldn't be surprised to find out suddenly that Mr .Murphy would try to change the rules on what's needed to get these searches approved. 

An officer saying he saw bloodshot eyes could be accepted perhaps as "reasonable suspicion" that someone was "under the influence".

I'm concerned that Murphy and his ilk will keep hammering away at everything they can, and we don't/won't have the political oomph to stop it. 

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Nappen is useless to the law abiding citizen. He would not like any gun laws to be laxed . The stricter the law  the more money he makes. I would not buy any of his books or read his advise.

 A few years back I applied for a CCW in Jersey. The State Police approved me but judge Pereksta denied my case and wanted exact dates when "immediate need"occured.  

I asked Nappen if he can represent me and he told me his fees start at 8K

What a crook. He is not your friend but pretends to be.

I understand he needs to make a living  but not by exorbitant fees.

Nobody is going to ask you about your old mag. Nobody is going to call you.

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3 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

I feel like many in our community here have willingly taken a pair of scissors and severed their own testicles.  

"Turn in your 15 rounders."  Yes sir!  I don't want any trouble.

"Turn in your AR15s."  Okay fine.  I really don't want any trouble.

"Turn in your handguns."  Oh well.  I want to stay out of trouble.

"Turn in your shotguns."  Ummm, I had enough!  

Too late asshole, your unarmed.

It’s an interesting moral dilemma...I’ve only heard 1 gun owner say states rights, and move.

Most feel it’s not constitutional but are worried about a house fire or medical emergency and somehow getting jammed up.

The contrarian argument I find interesting if 11 are illegal might as well get 30’s or 17’s etc. I’m not sure it would be wise to excercise them at a nj range though.

As far as fear monger @Maksim nj residents are their own worst enemy when it comes to firearms. A sort of hypersensitive almost cooked frog.

Ask anyone in America how to mail a mag they would reply “ in the mail, duh. It’s a machine part”

The closest ffl to me is offering mag babysitting for $20 a year per mag with a percentage going to the legal fund( I’m sure they will let me check their books). 

I can appreciate business capitalization like anyone, but it seems distasteful. Wouldn’t the individual be wiser to send $20 per mag to the legal fund?

 

As as far as NJSP warrantless searches, if that were to occur, we have much bigger problems..

 

I truly hope everyone is smart here and hopefully we garner some judicial relief.

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8 hours ago, Maksim said:

But... are our own 2A "leaders" for the lack of a better word in NJ going a bit overboard with fear mongering?

 

7 hours ago, BobA said:

Well Nappen makes his living terrorizing people with talks and books so......

This is the correct answer. Nappen knows he can use scare tactics to help his bank account, so it's not surprising to see him do that Facebook post. I think gun owners need to do a better job with reading comprehension and understanding, and NOT blindly follow a guy because he "claims" he's God's gift to all legal gun issues. He's just ONE opinion in many.

2 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Nappen's scenario will not happen.  Owning a gun that accepts a >10 Rd magazine is not probable cause for a warrant. 

Exactly. In my opinion, Nappen just making that Facebook post makes me think LESS of him and truly makes me question his expertise. Almost puts him in the Used car, snake oil salesman category.

 

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what I more expect to happen.. at least once or twice.. just so they can say they are doing something.. is to send a couple of under covers to a range for several hours.. one on the range.. one in the parking lot.. see who fires off more than 10 rounds without a change.. record the plates and follow up down the road.. it would cost very little to do this.. and then could come out and say how they were able to catch these evil illegal magazines keeping you "safer" 

about the gun and mag babysitting... the reason I really don't like this.. (and its OK for them to do whatever they like they are a private business).. but the reason I really dislike this is it sets the tone for the whole.. "if you really just want your guns for sporting purposes.. you can have them but you have to keep them at this "authorized" facility except when you are engaged in an approved activity".. thats my real problem with this place.. 

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10 minutes ago, vladtepes said:

it sets the tone for the whole.. "if you really just want your guns for sporting purposes.. you can have them but you have to keep them at this "authorized" facility except when you are engaged in an approved activity".. thats my real problem with this place.. 

Please remove this.  They really don't need any ideas.

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