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Just because Nappen wins before it even hits the courtroom doesn’t mean it’s not a win. No is known to do this because it doesnt set case law. A friend of mine was arrested for a collapsible stock in Salem county. (Ex-wife during divorce). He argued that its adjustable since it doesn’t fully collapse. The state dropped the charges before it went to court and returned the gun. That’s a win


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13 hours ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

 

 


So you think people will send him money for this? No he makes money when nj charges someone


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Yes, if it was only about money, he wouldn't warn us about a thing and wind up potentially with more business. Although, I didn't agree with some of his advise, I do find the package we got from ANJRPC yesterday interesting. I think he provided a decent amount of free advise in the rare case a Trooper comes knocking on one's door. I think he made a good case as to why this time it is different than the last time because the state has better data-bases, knows exactly what gun's we own, knows which ones came with greater than 10R, knows who among us have a large # of guns...What would kick off a targeted house search, hum, maybe a mass shooting with a 15R magazine in NJ. Yep, there would be nothing rational about this, but if Murphy wants to make a point about how he is anti-gun and tuff on crime, it just might happen. Let's face it, we as gun owners, concentrated, registered, are a wonderful-higher-probability of success group-target for the state to manifest their Nazi-Tendencies. And they could run a filter to concentrate on "enthusiasts" who have many guns to raise the probability of success of a hit/violation even further...Can't happen in America? Think again. "House to house" searches, nah. Selective "Targeted House searches" (at least attempted), could happen under the right circumstances.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/11/nj-state-police-refuse-to-rule-out-house-to-house-enforcement-of-high-capacity-magazine-ban/

"The New Jersey State Police corresponded with Breitbart News on December 11 and refused to rule out house-to-house enforcement of the state’s “high capacity” magazine ban."

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1 hour ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

Just because Nappen wins before it even hits the courtroom doesn’t mean it’s not a win. No is known to do this because it doesnt set case law. A friend of mine was arrested for a collapsible stock in Salem county. (Ex-wife during divorce). He argued that its adjustable since it doesn’t fully collapse. The state dropped the charges before it went to court and returned the gun. That’s a win


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Stop!

I am going to call bullshit  ...  

 

Are you telling us that a collapsible stock an evil feature item, was beaten in court,  as a non evil item by the fact that it doesn't fully collapse?

I find that very very hard to believe  ...

 

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6 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Stop!

I am going to call bullshit  ...  

 

Are you telling us that a collapsible stock an evil feature item, was beaten in court,  as a non evil item by the fact that it doesn't fully collapse?

I find that very very hard to believe  ...

 

Wow, I must have missed  his pronouncement that he has single handedly overturned a state evil feature ban and adjustable stocks are gtg!

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Like I said. It never went to court. The charges were dropped.

 

I talked about it on the forum multiple times over the last few years. But now all of a sudden it’s unbelievable. I’ll ask the guy today if I can use his name.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Combat Auto said:

Yes, if it was only about money, he wouldn't warn us about a thing and wind up potentially with more business. Although, I didn't agree with some of his advise, I do find the package we got from ANJRPC yesterday interesting. I think he provided a decent amount of free advise in the rare case a Trooper comes knocking on one's door. I think he made a good case as to why this time it is different than the last time because the state has better data-bases, knows exactly what gun's we own, knows which ones came with greater than 10R, knows who among us have a large # of guns...What would kick off a targeted house search, hum, maybe a mass shooting with a 15R magazine in NJ. Yep, there would be nothing rational about this, but if Murphy wants to make a point about how he is anti-gun and tuff on crime, it just might happen. Let's face it, we as gun owners, concentrated, registered, are a wonderful-higher-probability of success group-target for the state to manifest their Nazi-Tendencies. And they could run a filter to concentrate on "enthusiasts" who have many guns to raise the probability of success of a hit/violation even further...Can't happen in America? Think again. "House to house" searches, nah. Selective "Targeted House searches" (at least attempted), could happen under the right circumstances.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/11/nj-state-police-refuse-to-rule-out-house-to-house-enforcement-of-high-capacity-magazine-ban/

"The New Jersey State Police corresponded with Breitbart News on December 11 and refused to rule out house-to-house enforcement of the state’s “high capacity” magazine ban."

First off, did you read that brietbart article?  At the bottom of the article, the author noted "The NJ State Police refused to rule out house-to-house checks. Rather, they responded: “We do not discuss enforcement strategies.” Those are some EXTREME liberties with a denial for comment.

Second...https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/11/nj-state-police-no-plans-to-go-door-to-door-to-enforce-magazine-ban/amp/

Third, the police may know what guns people own and are capable of accepting a large capacity magazine. They do not know what magazines you own and based on my experience ownership of such type firearm, in and of itself, is not pc for a warrant.  

There is a big difference between an exigency search for someone who just blew up Boston and murdered several people, including a LEO, and reactionary raids of gun owners not involved in what you speak of. 

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17 hours ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

So you mean to tell me Nappen wants to be paid for his work? Next thing you’ll say is his many staff members too. Or the buildings aren’t free, that’s there is travel expenses, student loans, utilities and for god sake profit. I mean I doubt everyone in here works for free. His daily practice keeps the ball rolling and he jumps on big cases constantly. There are a list of big cases he’s handled in nj.

This is what I meant what I mentioned eating our own


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There is getting paid for work and then there is drumming up work by spreading false info.

 

17 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

 

Maks it's because the plural of "Group" was used.  "Phone People" tend to skip-over SH!T & miss so much context on threads like this one (that's more suited for a Ping-Pong table IMHO).

Newbies that read this will get the impression (and rightly so I might add) that 2A "Groups" are fighting when nothing could be further from the truth!  So please don't "lump me in" by association.  If you're chatting about a specific Group, TAG THEM so they can respond.  That brings me to this little Gem:

I often wonder what some folks consider a group to be.  A Facebook page and/or an individual w/o a Board of Trustees to answer to is NOT a Group.  A Group has a checkbook, files IRS forms, has a Secretary, Treasurer, Vice President(s) & a President at MINIMUM.  Records such as tax records are public domain.  501(c) Groups have Bylaws with a Dissolution Amendment to prevent the Executive Board, Committee Chairs & Trustees from dissolving the corporation & running away with the assets.  THAT, gentlemen & ladies constitutes a GROUP.

In general, the Mag Ban has brought much bravado out into the public eye.  I'm still dealing with the fallout both here & on Facebook.  As a volunteer it has taken a LOT out of me.  Maybe I'm being affected by it too somewhat.  I've been around guns for close to a half-century.  Never have I seen so much angst between passionate gun owners.  I think everybody needs to take a breath & CHILL!  Keep in mind most of us agree with each other close to 90% of the time.  The Anti's LOVE it when we eat each other online.  How about we don't play into their trap?????????

Try to have the rest of a nice week, go Christmas shopping, hit the Gin Mill & have yer favorite adult beverage.  The sky hasn't fallen YET!

Signed,

Chicken Little's Grandpa

P.S.:  CNJFO has launched a Matching Funds Campaign for the lawsuit known as Cheeseman-Jillard!  DOUBLE YOUR DOLLARS by donating HERE & get the TAX-DEDUCTIBILITY of your donation:  https://www.cnjfo.com/page-18139 

 

Well  if i said if would be nice if NJ Group did not fight with each other i would be called our for bad grammar :)

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11 minutes ago, JasonSeidman said:

There is a big difference between an exigency search for someone who just blew up Boston and murdered several people, including a LEO, and reactionary raids of gun owners not involved in what you speak of. 

This ^^^^

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15 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

 

The last thing you want to do is marginalize our LEOs.  That is why the state always makes special exemptions for active and retired LE.  It's a small price for the gun hate'n dems to pay so that LE does not turn on them politically.o to SCOTUS when the time is right, hopefully it will be sooner rather than later.

 

The state made exemptions for LEO / Retired LEO because of Union / Political pressure... I have an issue with this..  

14 hours ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

And Evan Nappen represented me for FREE
Damn he’s greedy


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He did not represent you for free

12 hours ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

Nappen and I hammered them with a media campaign and put them on the defense.


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This is where he got Paid. Whats the "free" advertising worth...

11 hours ago, Tunaman said:

Must be fear mongering too.....

Or severely misinformed.

10 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

Found over at Reddit, not sure if it's real though...

bzfsqbrquw321.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&a

Poor Donut shop.   I wonder if that shop can sue?

 

Yea i just figured out what the + means when Quoting LOL

 

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16 minutes ago, JasonSeidman said:

Third, the police may know what guns people own and are capable of accepting a large capacity magazine. They do not know what magazines you own and based on my experience ownership of such type firearm, in and of itself, is not pc for a warrant. 

This is false. The police know that anyone who was shipped, for example, a factory Gen 5 Glock 19, has at least three 15 round magazines in their possession if they have not already disposed of them. It's on the Glock website.

Quote

There is a big difference between an exigency search for someone who just blew up Boston and murdered several people, including a LEO, and reactionary raids of gun owners not involved in what you speak of. 

Forgive me for not sharing your saguinity. The magazine ban itself is purely reactionary, without any rational basis in fact, so who says they'll stop there>

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5 minutes ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

This is false. The police know that anyone who was shipped, for example, a factory Gen 5 Glock 19, has at least three 15 round magazines in their possession if they have not already disposed of them. It's on the Glock website.

Forgive me for not sharing your saguinity. The magazine ban itself is purely reactionary, without any rational basis in fact, so who says they'll stop there>

Glocks come from the factory with 10rnd mags also.

And

I disagree the new law is Reactionary. Reacting to what?  Shooters can use 10 rnds just as well as 15 or 30. They know this but its a talking point. WE DID SOMETHING.... its just a way to limit you. They use tragedies for a purpose. its not a reaction its part of the plan.

 

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32 minutes ago, JasonSeidman said:

First off, did you read that brietbart article?  At the bottom of the article, the author noted "The NJ State Police refused to rule out house-to-house checks. Rather, they responded: “We do not discuss enforcement strategies.” Those are some EXTREME liberties with a denial for comment.

Second...https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/11/nj-state-police-no-plans-to-go-door-to-door-to-enforce-magazine-ban/amp/

Third, the police may know what guns people own and are capable of accepting a large capacity magazine. They do not know what magazines you own and based on my experience ownership of such type firearm, in and of itself, is not pc for a warrant.  

There is a big difference between an exigency search for someone who just blew up Boston and murdered several people, including a LEO, and reactionary raids of gun owners not involved in what you speak of. 

Murphy's Puppet also refused to answer the question. Keep in mind, things are changing very rapidly in this country, the Lefty is working very hard to demonize us, and with every mass-shooting, even more so. Once demonized, just like in a war, you can get away with doing all sort of illegal things to the target group. Judges will bend to the mob. The 10R litigation is an example of this...On the other point, it doesn't take a Top-Notch detective to figure out the capacity of the magazines shipped for each gun type new purchase prior to the 10R law. While there may be a few shooters who planed some years ahead at the inevitable, most folks took as much legal capacity they could at that time.

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8 minutes ago, remixer said:

Glocks come from the factory with 10rnd mags also.

And

I disagree the new law is Reactionary. Reacting to what?  Shooters can use 10 rnds just as well as 15 or 30. They know this but its a talking point. WE DID SOMETHING.... its just a way to limit you. They use tragedies for a purpose. its not a reaction its part of the plan.

 

But who would have shipped themselves 10 rd when they can get 15 for the same price. Police know with 99%+ probability that I have (had) 15 round mags.

I was using reactionary in the general sense of reacting to events rather than the political sense. I agree the mag ban is anything but reactionary in the traditional political sense.

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7 minutes ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

But who would have shipped themselves 10 rd when they can get 15 for the same price. Police know with 99%+ probability that I have (had) 15 round mags.

I was using reactionary in the general sense of reacting to events rather than the political sense. I agree the mag ban is anything but reactionary in the traditional political sense.

I see the point. BUT i doubt the NJSP is even worrying about this.  They assume as most that people will comply... its not worth the bad press or possible challenge  to visit people because they "Might" have something...

BTW once the law was being drawn up we had people ask for the 10 rnd version of the 19.  They saw the writing on the wall and figured it would save them the headache.

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Murphy's Puppet also refused to answer the question. Keep in mind, things are changing very rapidly in this country, the Lefty is working very hard to demonize us, and with every mass-shooting, even more so. Once demonized, just like in a war, you can get away with doing all sort of illegal things to the target group. Judges will bend to the mob. The 10R litigation is an example of this...On the other point, it doesn't take a Top-Notch detective to figure out the capacity of the magazines shipped for each gun type new purchase prior to the 10R law. While there may be a few shooters who planed some years ahead at the inevitable, most folks took as much legal capacity they could at that time.

That is not grounds for a warrant. For example.

 

Most folks took the maximum capacity option when ordering a Glock your honor so we believe John Smith has high capacity mags. Any proof he hasn't sold them, modified them, or didnt order 10 round mags. No your honor. Any other evidence John Smith has high capacity mags other than he ordered a Glock? No your honor. Get out of my Chambers.

 

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But who would have shipped themselves 10 rd when they can get 15 for the same price. Police know with 99%+ probability that I have (had) 15 round mags.

I was using reactionary in the general sense of reacting to events rather than the political sense. I agree the mag ban is anything but reactionary in the traditional political sense.

Someone planning to move to NY or CA

 

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1 minute ago, capt14k said:

That is not grounds for a warrant. For example.

Most folks took the maximum capacity option when ordering but Glock your honor so we believe John Smith has high capacity mags. Any proof he hasn't sold them, modified them, or didnt order 10 round mags. No your honor. Any other evidence John Smith has high capacity mags other than he ordered a Glock? No your honor. Get out of my Chambers.

Agree... Its not grounds for a search... I think most courts would scold the agency that tried to pull off that shit.

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Agree... Its not grounds for a search... I think most courts would scold the agency that tried to pull off that shit.
Yeah probably would be choice words at the end but I got tired of typing

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If you don't know the difference between probable cause reasonable suspicion, circumstantial evidence and assumptions.... You shouldn't be talking about the subject. You should be listening.

Purchasing a firearm that can* come with more than a 10 round mag, would be a clear assumption as to what mags actually came with it. 

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3 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

If you don't know the difference between probable cause reasonable suspicion, circumstantial evidence and assumptions.... You shouldn't be talking about the subject. You should be listening.

Is the fact someone has a Glock 19 registered that its probable cause ,reasonable suspicion, or circumstantial evidence for a search?

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I haven't read all his previous warnings, but the one attached to the ANJRPC mail yesterday was quite balanced. First thing he says is, house to house searches are unlikely. But he does stipulate scenarios which can change this. And he does point out some things the State can do without warrants. And he does advise on what to do if Trooper's come to the home without a warrant. ...All good stuff. He did a nice job in this latest write-up. 

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1 minute ago, Combat Auto said:

I haven't read all his previous warnings, but the one attached to the ANJRPC mail yesterday was quite balanced. First thing he says is, house to house searches are unlikely. But he does stipulate scenarios which can change this. And he does point out some things the State can do without warrants. And he does advise on what to do in Trooper's come to the home without a warrant...He did a nice job in this latest write-up. 

Would you mind posting it here.

 

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1 minute ago, remixer said:

Soooo to be clear...... Assumption is not something the government can search your home for :)

Even if they had documented the specific model, which some do indicate the mag size... They would still be guessing or assuming that you didn't get rid of them . 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Most folks took the maximum capacity option when ordering a Glock your honor so we believe John Smith has high capacity mags. Any proof he hasn't sold them, modified them, or didnt order 10 round mags. No your honor. Any other evidence John Smith has high capacity mags other than he ordered a Glock? No your honor. Get out of my Chambers.

Or you get the judge who lowered the bar for criminal intent in NJ gun cases to sea level with "When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his peril." Fancy your chances?

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