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5 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Even if they had documented the specific model, which some do indicate the mag size... They would still be guessing or assuming that you didn't get rid of them . 

 

 

Sounds reasonable.... You must be a liberal. :)

 

5 minutes ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

Or you get the judge who lowered the bar for criminal intent in NJ gun cases to sea level with "When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his peril." Fancy your chances?

I mean.. we can What if all we want... But lets keep this real....

Its Highly unlikely the NJSP is going door to door without some serious threat from a certain person.

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But who would have shipped themselves 10 rd when they can get 15 for the same price. Police know with 99%+ probability that I have (had) 15 round mags.

I was using reactionary in the general sense of reacting to events rather than the political sense. I agree the mag ban is anything but reactionary in the traditional political sense.

 

So, now you have the five man Firearms Unit checking all these pistol permits, cross referencing what guns have 11 round magazines and over, and setting up for warrants... which would likely never be signed off on. As mentioned, no probable cause... even in NJ (you are talking about people with likely no criminal record, as the got the pistol permit in the first place, and a NICS on top of that). They still have all their other responsibilities... so what takes precedence? Get those dangerous 11-15 rounders off the street (NJSP has had enough heat over questionable issues in the past, so I doubt they will even ask for a warrant that questionable) or keep doing their original job?

 

Maybe let’s have local departments handle it? For towns like Deal, where they may have the time to do it... you might see an officer knock on the door/send a letter. Busier towns (Neptune, Asbury Park)... yea, let’s waste manpower on that. [emoji849]

 

Off the top of my head, I own two guns that would screw up your theory. And even still, when guns were in higher demand, you don’t think dealers got 10 round SKUs when 15 rounders were not available? What about Glock 17s? Did every single FFL buy the 17 round version and pin... or did some buy the 10 round ones and didn’t have to be bothered pinning them?

 

For the two guns in question... Beretta PX4 and CZ SP-01 (both 9mm).

 

The Beretta... there was never a model offered by Beretta with 15 rounders. It was 17 and 10. I bought mine used from a moderator on BerettaForum... which came with 15 rounders. How would the NJSP know that? Or would they just say... he must have got a 17 rounder, and Paul at NJ Arms, handed the illegal magazines to me. Obviously, he wouldn’t, as I don’t think any NJ FFL would risk that, but gets to either pinned 15 rounders or 10s. The pistol permit does not show any reference of the SKU sold, so they don’t know if it came with 10, 15, or 17 round magazines.

 

The SP-01... I bought from Steve. Came with 18 rounders (the ones with the bumpers), if I remember correctly. Other option, I believe was 10. Was doing the paperwork on it, and he said he has to pin them. Not too big on the pinned magazines, and he stocked 15 rounders... so swapped them in. Is he an accessory for possessing future high capacity magazine from this sale, back in 2016?

 

Would any of that be probable cause? Hell, I have a few ARs, a WASR, M1A, and a Tavor. There are drum magazines for all of those... so I must be in possession of them. Sorry, but if you don’t hear how stupid that sounds, I really can’t help you (and probably nobody else here). If my local department wants to come down, or even the NJSP, they can look at my two single shot pistols I described above... as well as any other firearm I didn’t have a 10 or less round magazine for. I’m selfish for sending my magazines out of state, not because I fear NJSP’s TEAMS Unit will be breaching my front door... but because I’m 3.5 months out from starting a job in Federal L/E in Maine. A fourth degree crime is a felony, and likely something CBP wouldn’t be too happy over. Even if owning a Glock 19 by itself is probable cause, they gave 180 to get in compliance. You’d have to have evidence that person did not. For that, you are getting way outside the realm of normal police work.

 

Only ones that feel this way are you, Nappen, and some that kiss the ground he walks on. Do have to ask... is that you, Evan?

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22 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Most folks took the maximum capacity option when ordering a Glock your honor so we believe John Smith has high capacity mags. Any proof he hasn't sold them, modified them, or didnt order 10 round mags. No your honor. Any other evidence John Smith has high capacity mags other than he ordered a Glock? No your honor. Get out of my Chambers.

Also, don't forget the NJ legislature and judiciary respect neither the second amendment nor the first (banning distribution of 3d gun files). If the 4th amendment gets in the way of their totalitarian vision, you can bet it will be cast aside just as carelessly as the first two.

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I think this thread has had a good life. Some good info.... Some complete nonsense... but overall good conversation.

Results are this.

1. Its illegal to own a magazine that holds more then 10Rnds unless you are LEO, Retired or active.

2. Keeping those now considered High cap mags comes with some risk.

3. There will be NO door to door confiscation (At this point)  but when you come in contact with law enforcement for other reasons where a search is warranted you might have a problem if you did not comply with the new law.

4. FFS for those of you who might be on the fence about compliance its a horrible idea to keep those items in the gun safe

2 minutes ago, Screwball said:

 



The SP-01... I bought from Steve. Came with 18 rounders (the ones with the bumpers),
 

 You just made us targets :)

 

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6 minutes ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

Or you get the judge who lowered the bar for criminal intent in NJ gun cases to sea level with "When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his peril." Fancy your chances?

No matter how low that bar goes, it will always require direct facts that show you are breaking a law. How many times do you think evidence has been thrown out of cases because a warrant was baseless? 

 

Take it a step further, if you have a 30round magazine at the range, do you think the cops can sieze and search it just because they see it?

You have no idea how criminals walk free everyday from baseless warrants, even when they are guilty.

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13 hours ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

The problem is nj does regularly harass gun owners. Everyone thinks it’s bs till it happens to you


I chose not to go after my township


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Can you provide examples?  Want to know what we might actually expect.  

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3 minutes ago, JHZR2 said:

Can you provide examples?  Want to know what we might actually expect.  

I have sold thousands of firearms and have never heard of a single person being harassed or targeted.

Some people very well might be magnets for that kinda stuff regardless of guns.

 

1 minute ago, Screwball said:

 


You are allowed to... doesn’t need to be in compliance until it walks out your door, correct?

Of course...   :)

Everything that leaves is 100% in compliance.  (in case they are watching)

In all seriousness. Non of my customers will have an issue.

 

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I haven't read all his previous warnings, but the one attached to the ANJRPC mail yesterday was quite balanced. First thing he says is, house to house searches are unlikely. But he does stipulate scenarios which can change this. And he does point out some things the State can do without warrants. And he does advise on what to do if Trooper's come to the home without a warrant. ...All good stuff. He did a nice job in this latest write-up. 
Everything he says is fear mongering and self promotion.

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6 minutes ago, Screwball said:

Off the top of my head, I own two guns that would screw up your theory.

Only ones that feel this way are you, Nappen, and some that kiss the ground he walks on. Do have to ask... is that you, Evan?

How does the fact that you own two guns about which the police have little information contradict the fact that I own two guns  which the police have > 99% certainty shipped with 15 rd mags?

The fact that so many gun owners in NJ seem to be willing apologists for the state as their rights are whittled to nothing explains a lot.

No, I am not Nappen, and I've never had anything to do with him. I even looked into the US Shield thing that he is involved in a while back and concluded it was a borderline scam. All opinions are my own.

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I haven't read all his previous warnings, but the one attached to the ANJRPC mail yesterday was quite balanced. First thing he says is, house to house searches are unlikely. But he does stipulate scenarios which can change this. And he does point out some things the State can do without warrants. And he does advise on what to do if Trooper's come to the home without a warrant. ...All good stuff. He did a nice job in this latest write-up. 

It's almost like someone else wrote something similar a few days earlier and was excoriated by his minions for it because they were a complicity monger. Either way I'm happy people are getting the right info now as opposed to the garbage posted earlier on Facebook.

 

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Yeah the police have a 0 percent certainty that you still poses them, or didn't modify them.

 

9 minutes ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

How does the fact that you own two guns about which the police have little information contradict the fact that I own two guns  which the police have > 99% certainty shipped with 15 rd mags?

The fact that so many gun owners in NJ seem to be willing apologists for the state as their rights are whittled to nothing explains a lot.

No, I am not Nappen, and I've never had anything to do with him. I even looked into the US Shield thing that he is involved in a while back and concluded it was a borderline scam. All opinions are my own.

The fact is, we all had 15 round mags prior to the law going into effect... 

What level of certainty are you going to suggest that a person didn't comply?

There must be something that shows non-compliance has taken place. 

 

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7 minutes ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

 

The fact that so many gun owners in NJ seem to be willing apologists for the state as their rights are whittled to nothing explains a lot..

I dont think pointing out facts would make anyone apologists for the state.

We are trying to point out the facts. I think the situation is bad enough without causing undo panic.

Making people think the NJSP is about to kick in their door is just plain wrong.

 

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Sounds like he was representing me....


Being honest... never followed it. I definitely saw your picture once or twice, but never heard the facts of the case.

But let me ask you this... what exactly was the outcome? You got your guns back. What changed for all NJ gun owners after that?

Not being a dick about it, but seriously asking the one directly involved.

How does the fact that you own two guns about which the police have little information contradict the fact that I own two guns  which the police have > 99% certainty shipped with 15 rd mags?
The fact that so many gun owners in NJ seem to be willing apologists for the state as their rights are whittled to nothing explains a lot.
No, I am not Nappen, and I've never had anything to do with him. I even looked into the US Shield thing that he is involved in a while back and concluded it was a borderline scam. All opinions are my own.


You do realize that all guns... new, used, privately purchased (up until a few months back), or store bought... all have the same info on the pistol permit?

Please tell me where on the permit it shows capacity of magazines that lets NJSP or local L/E know you are in possession of 11-15 rounders. Even if they did... and follow me... YOU HAD 180 DAYS TO GET INTO COMPLIANCE! That is not probable cause. It would be laughed at, unless they had proof you likely still possessed those magazines past this previous Monday.
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Some members here don’t realize how things really happen in law enforcement.. Police knocking on doors or applying for warrants solely based on non compliant magazines is not happening... 

There is a manpower issue in most police departments.. Do you think police departments of Newark, Trenton, Camden and so on can be bothered with such petty shit as 15 round magazines???   

 

 

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9 minutes ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

How does the fact that you own two guns about which the police have little information contradict the fact that I own two guns  which the police have > 99% certainty shipped with 15 rd mags?

The fact that so many gun owners in NJ seem to be willing apologists for the state as their rights are whittled to nothing explains a lot.

No, I am not Nappen, and I've never had anything to do with him. I even looked into the US Shield thing that he is involved in a while back and concluded it was a borderline scam. All opinions are my own.

The fact you had >10 Rd magazines last year or even last week is not probable cause for a warrant.  Information for a search warrant had to be fresh.

Assuming you complied with the law and disposed of those >10 Rd magazines is the same as assuming you still have them.

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8 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

the Lefty is working very hard to demonize us, and with every mass-shooting, even more so. Once demonized, just like in a war, you can get away with doing all sort of illegal things to the target group. Judges will bend to the mob.

Generally, I agree with this.  The progressive left has been on a decades long campaign to disarm Americans.  Specifically, they want to do away with semi-auto rifles.  Handguns are typically defensive weapons, whereas long guns may be used as offensive weapons.  If there was to be a revolt against the socialist encroachment or a civil war, it would not be fought with handguns. 

Clearly, the progressives want to ensure they overwhelmingly have the upper hand.  When you consider that the vast majority of shootings are done with handguns, but the focus of bans is mostly on long guns and magazine capacity, the progressive agenda becomes apparent.

  I won't go as far as to say the people who use black rifles in mass shootings are part of some MK Ultra scheme, but the progressives certainly have created a social climate where mentally ill people can become infamous through the use of a black rifle in their attacks.  And, it's always the rifles fault, never the fault of failed progressive policies, ignored and untreated mental illness or incompetent social services. 

For example, it's not like they didn't see the Parkland shooting coming, there were a million red flags but the democrat infested social services allowed the future killer to remain at large and armed because it would look bad for the feel good program the killer was enrolled in.

While we are not quite there yet (far from it), I can imagine a future where, if the left has taken compete control of government, and uses the two existing forms of retained hard copy, the log books at the LGS and the handgun P2P forms that is not a gun registry, but is a state gun registry. The left will absolutely exploit the paper trail to go door to door to investigate people who do not comply with a gun ban.

The kind of wholesale confiscation that Nappen portents is neither imminent or likely as long as we have SCOTUS and a two party system.  Many far fetched conditions will have to be met for Napan's dystopian future to exist. 

 

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You do realize that all guns... new, used, privately purchased (up until a few months back), or store bought... all have the same info on the pistol permit?

 

Please tell me where on the permit it shows capacity of magazines that lets NJSP or local L/E know you are in possession of 11-15 rounders. Even if they did... and follow me... YOU HAD 180 DAYS TO GET INTO COMPLIANCE! That is not probable cause. It would be laughed at, unless they had proof you likely still possessed those magazines past this previous Monday.

 

 

 

They never got in my safe. That’s what the battle was really over. The media blitz was to make sure they didn’t come back. Dyfs called me daily trying to get me to open the safe. The police pulled over everyone of my family members every time they saw one for a while. Never wrote a ticket, never ran a DL. Just pulled em over, walked up to the window, poked their head in and let em go. (Intimidation)

 

 

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1 minute ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

The police pulled over everyone of my family members every time they saw one for a while. Never wrote a ticket, never ran a DL. Just pulled em over, walked up to the window, poked their head in and let em go. (Intimidation)

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Why.

All because of that FB picture or was there more?

 

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1 minute ago, remixer said:

I dont think pointing out facts would make anyone apologists for the state.

We are trying to point out the facts. I think the situation is bad enough without causing undo panic.

Making people think the NJSP is about to kick in their door is just plain wrong.

 

No-one said the NJSP are about to kick in doors. The facts are:

  1. The NJ legislature and judiciary have repeatedly demonstrated their hostility to NJ citizens' second amendment rights, and at best indifference to our first amendment rights.
  2. NJSP and local police have sufficient information on many of us to have more than a reasonable suspicion that we are in possession of 15 round magazines.
  3. Gun control is a political winner in NJ, and hence gun owners are an easy target for a politician looking to boost their popularity.

Against that you're relying on the same anti-second- and anti-first- amendment judiciary to have a backbone and stand up to the legislature on the 4th amendment? I hope you're right but it's certainly not fear-mongering to suggest otherwise.

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They never got in my safe. That’s what the battle was really over. The media blitz was to make sure they didn’t come back. Dyfs called me daily trying to get me to open the safe. The police pulled over everyone of my family members every time they saw one for a while. Never wrote a ticket, never ran a DL. Just pulled em over, walked up to the window, poked their head in and let em go. (Intimidation)
 
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Got you.

So, only other recourse would have been to sue (saw you mention that earlier)?

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3 minutes ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

No-one said the NJSP are about to kick in doors. The facts are:

  1. The NJ legislature and judiciary have repeatedly demonstrated their hostility to NJ citizens' second amendment rights, and at best indifference to our first amendment rights.
  2. NJSP and local police have sufficient information on many of us to have more than a reasonable suspicion that we are in possession of 15 round magazines.
  3. Gun control is a political winner in NJ, and hence gun owners are an easy target for a politician looking to boost their popularity.

Against that you're relying on the same anti-second- and anti-first- amendment judiciary to have a backbone and stand up to the legislature on the 4th amendment? I hope you're right but it's certainly not fear-mongering to suggest otherwise.

1. Agree

2. Agree to the first part but Disagree on reasonable suspension to search

3. Agree But there are still laws...   NJ does not want a court challenge to search. they would lose.

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5 minutes ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

No-one said the NJSP are about to kick in doors. The facts are:

  1. The NJ legislature and judiciary have repeatedly demonstrated their hostility to NJ citizens' second amendment rights, and at best indifference to our first amendment rights.
  2. NJSP and local police have sufficient information on many of us to have more than a reasonable suspicion that we are in possession of 15 round magazines.
  3. Gun control is a political winner in NJ, and hence gun owners are an easy target for a politician looking to boost their popularity.

Against that you're relying on the same anti-second- and anti-first- amendment judiciary to have a backbone and stand up to the legislature on the 4th amendment? I hope you're right but it's certainly not fear-mongering to suggest otherwise.

 

What is their reasonable suspicion that I didn't modify my mags or get rid of them? Per the law.

 

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We should all meet at a Star bucks to discuss this face to face...

 

It would help put matters to rest and at the same time drive the liberals fucking nuts.

 

1 minute ago, JackDaWack said:

What is their reasonable suspicion that I didn't modify my mags or get rid of them? Per the law.

 

Exactly.. you cant assume no one followed the law and that is not grounds for a search....

I think the NJSP can and should send out "Mail" to all FID holders informing them of the law and the penalties for non compliance but thats about as far as it will go

 

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1 minute ago, remixer said:

1. Agree

2. Agree to the first part but Disagree on reasonable suspension to search

3. Agree But there are still laws...   NJ does not want a court challenge to search. they would lose.

2. and 3. That's the point. They have reasonable suspicion but not reasonable suspicion to search because of the 4th amendment. That's the only thing that stands between you and a politician that wants to make an example of you in order to boost his/her reelection prospects. So now you're relying on the same judiciary that threw out mens rea with respect to gun law violations to uphold your 4th amendment rights with respect to search? Like I say, you could be right, but I would not be at all surprised to see a case go the other way.

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1 minute ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

2. and 3. That's the point. They have reasonable suspicion but not reasonable suspicion to search because of the 4th amendment. That's the only thing that stands between you and a politician that wants to make an example of you in order to boost his/her reelection prospects. So now you're relying on the same judiciary that threw out mens rea with respect to gun law violations to uphold your 4th amendment rights with respect to search? Like I say, you could be right, but I would not be at all surprised to see a case go the other way.

what im saying is NJ will push the limits.... But violating the 4th would be an automatic supreme court challenge.

the state does not want that.

 

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