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Sota

Shotgun Shootout - Frosty's Nuts Edition - Dec. 22nd

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3 hours ago, sota said:

also, who does shotgun barrel threading for choke installs.  I'm seriously considering it for the shockwave.

Yea I know, i'm putting lipstick on a pig to go clay shooting, but i'm weird like that. :D

 

Real men don't need chokes in a Shockwave. Just sayin':D

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11 hours ago, sota said:

We can be a bit overwhelming as a group, first time there.  I remember my first time I was very much deer in the headlights.  I credit Drez for getting me through it.

@Smokin .50 I rocked the shirt I won. :D

Thanks & good to know!  Glad to see you spreadin' the good word!  Merry Christmas!

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11 hours ago, Maksim said:

The things we take for granted.  Never even considered it can be overwhelming for someone new, either to guns or to the community.

See, this is why I agree with @Mrs. Peel to have some name badges. =)  OR.... a dedicated person at these who has a Welcome.... See me tag. =)

To ALL:

As these Shoots grow & more Newbies get invited (especially those relatively NEW to shooting itself), it MAY be time to consider establishing BOTH a Meeter-Greeter w/ name badges & a sharpie IN ADDITION TO a dedicated RSO to watch the common firing line.  Said job assignments can be shared by competent personnel in attendance (even those w/o official credentials).  Not having someone constantly watching is an open opportunity for trouble especially since our group doesn't use the wooden shooting cages.

CASE IN POINT:

Last time I was there Nick assigned me to instruct a Mother & Daughter that borrowed someone's 20 ga. & brought it and shells to the Shoot.  I did as instructed and concentrated on them & corrected stance and technique with various "pointers" to get them hitting instead of missing.  The mom is cross-eye dominant & kept kanting the gun so I had my work cut out for me.  The daughter needed a shorter LOP & thus struggled to reach the controls.  Needless to say I couldn't watch everyone simultaneously.  

When it was my turn to shoot, I had someone throw a crosser with a hand trap as a "simo".  I was on the right cement pad.  As I swung my double to get the crossing clay, there was 2-3 guys forward of my position IN FRONT OF THE OTHER CEMENT PAD picking-up spent hulls.  They broke the 180* Rule and exposed themselves to a discharge!  A dedicated RSO wouldn't have let THAT happen!  Calling a hot range COLD for a brief clean-up just forward of the cement pads would be the correct action to have taken.  I'm fortunate for many years of experience and training as a NRA Chief Range Safety Officer.  When I swung my double & saw fellow shooters I was surprised, pissed & both scared & thankful at the same time.  Thankful I didn't pull the trigger as I chased that clay!  Thankful it was ME on that cement pad!  It's a weird feelin' to almost point a shotgun at someone...  YES, I did YELL "Let us know BEFORE you clean-up out there!" and the three got the message (I don't know who they were---NO name-tags) , but it just goes to show you that when you make ASSUMPTIONS regarding the steady "routine" of the straight-away release of birds you can put yer ass in trouble.

Although it wasn't necessary at the time (since nothing really happened) to make a scene & stop everything for ALMOST pointing a scattergun at someone, it's a teachable moment we should all learn from.  An "assigned" RSO is a good way to make sure our stellar safety record is maintained!

Merry Christmas to ALL!

Rosey

 

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3 minutes ago, fishnut said:

As far as I know the people there with hunting licenses are the RSO by default as they are the ones guesting in everyone else. I believe it's one of the WMA range rules. 

Licensee is responsible for the party.

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1 minute ago, Zeke said:

Licensee is responsible for the party.

That's how I've always felt but I checked and it does not specify in the rules. Just that at least 1 person in the group needs to have a licenses 

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

As these Shoots grow & more Newbies get invited (especially those relatively NEW to shooting itself), it MAY be time to consider establishing BOTH a Meeter-Greeter w/ name badges & a sharpie IN ADDITION TO a dedicated RSO to watch the common firing line.  Said job assignments can be shared by competent personnel in attendance (even those w/o official credentials).  Not having someone constantly watching is an open opportunity for trouble especially since our group doesn't use the wooden shooting cages.

That was something I was wondering about. Between newbies and unknown guests, and all the activity, do you really feel safe with all that "hardware" easily available to anyone? A newbie signing on here today with a anonymous screen name, and showing up next week at one of these shootouts with a shotgun could be a cause for concern, if there's not a structure to control activity.

It would really ruin your day to have a "Dick Cheney" moment.

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@fishnut @Zeke - you're talking about procedurally "who's in charge", which is fair. But I think @Smokin .50's point is what makes the most sense from a safety perspective (regardless of the WMA rules)?  And it does sound like if the groups are getting larger and we're getting more noobs... then having one highly experienced person at each station makes the most sense. Hell, even some of us who've been a few times are still complete noobs (myself included).

I realize that the people in the RSO role might have to sacrifice a bit of their own shooting time, but I think they would be MORE THAN HAPPY to do that when it means 1) potentially bringing more shooters into the fold and 2) ensuring that everyone enjoys a safe and pleasant time. I think he's spot-on!

I was really sorry I missed this one - I was under the weather. I'll make the next one! And would be happy to bring/fill out name tags so it's all a bit more mingle-y.  

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2 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

To ALL:

As these Shoots grow & more Newbies get invited (especially those relatively NEW to shooting itself), it MAY be time to consider establishing BOTH a Meeter-Greeter w/ name badges & a sharpie IN ADDITION TO a dedicated RSO to watch the common firing line.  Said job assignments can be shared by competent personnel in attendance (even those w/o official credentials).  Not having someone constantly watching is an open opportunity for trouble especially since our group doesn't use the wooden shooting cages.

CASE IN POINT:

Last time I was there Nick assigned me to instruct a Mother & Daughter that borrowed someone's 20 ga. & brought it and shells to the Shoot.  I did as instructed and concentrated on them & corrected stance and technique with various "pointers" to get them hitting instead of missing.  The mom is cross-eye dominant & kept kanting the gun so I had my work cut out for me.  The daughter needed a shorter LOP & thus struggled to reach the controls.  Needless to say I couldn't watch everyone simultaneously.  

When it was my turn to shoot, I had someone throw a crosser with a hand trap as a "simo".  I was on the right cement pad.  As I swung my double to get the crossing clay, there was 2-3 guys forward of my position IN FRONT OF THE OTHER CEMENT PAD picking-up spent hulls.  They broke the 180* Rule and exposed themselves to a discharge!  A dedicated RSO wouldn't have let THAT happen!  Calling a hot range COLD for a brief clean-up just forward of the cement pads would be the correct action to have taken.  I'm fortunate for many years of experience and training as a NRA Chief Range Safety Officer.  When I swung my double & saw fellow shooters I was surprised, pissed & both scared & thankful at the same time.  Thankful I didn't pull the trigger as I chased that clay!  Thankful it was ME on that cement pad!  It's a weird feelin' to almost point a shotgun at someone...  YES, I did YELL "Let us know BEFORE you clean-up out there!" and the three got the message (I don't know who they were---NO name-tags) , but it just goes to show you that when you make ASSUMPTIONS regarding the steady "routine" of the straight-away release of birds you can put yer ass in trouble.

Although it wasn't necessary at the time (since nothing really happened) to make a scene & stop everything for ALMOST pointing a scattergun at someone, it's a teachable moment we should all learn from.  An "assigned" RSO is a good way to make sure our stellar safety record is maintained!

Merry Christmas to ALL!

Rosey

 

As usual Rosey makes a great point, I have RSO Credentials and would be happy to help out for an hour at any of the shoots I can attend. I still want some trigger time though.

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1 minute ago, Mrs. Peel said:

@fishnut @Zeke - you're talking about procedurally "who's in charge", which is fair. But I think @Smokin .50's point is what makes the most sense from a safety perspective (regardless of the WMA rules)?  And it does sound like if the groups are getting larger and we're getting more noobs... then having one highly experienced person at each station makes the most sense. Hell, even some of us who've been a few times are still complete noobs (myself included).

I realize that the people in the RSO role might have to sacrifice a bit of their own shooting time, but I think they would be MORE THAN HAPPY to do that when it means 1) potentially bringing more shooters into the fold and 2) ensuring that everyone enjoys a safe and pleasant time. I think he's spot-on!

I was really sorry I missed this one - I was under the weather. I'll make the next one! And would be happy to bring/fill out name tags so it's all a bit more mingle-y.  

Responsible/ liable? In charge... :crazy:

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3 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

To ALL:

As these Shoots grow & more Newbies get invited (especially those relatively NEW to shooting itself), it MAY be time to consider establishing BOTH a Meeter-Greeter w/ name badges & a sharpie IN ADDITION TO a dedicated RSO to watch the common firing line.  Said job assignments can be shared by competent personnel in attendance (even those w/o official credentials).  Not having someone constantly watching is an open opportunity for trouble especially since our group doesn't use the wooden shooting cages.

CASE IN POINT:

Last time I was there Nick assigned me to instruct a Mother & Daughter that borrowed someone's 20 ga. & brought it and shells to the Shoot.  I did as instructed and concentrated on them & corrected stance and technique with various "pointers" to get them hitting instead of missing.  The mom is cross-eye dominant & kept kanting the gun so I had my work cut out for me.  The daughter needed a shorter LOP & thus struggled to reach the controls.  Needless to say I couldn't watch everyone simultaneously.  

When it was my turn to shoot, I had someone throw a crosser with a hand trap as a "simo".  I was on the right cement pad.  As I swung my double to get the crossing clay, there was 2-3 guys forward of my position IN FRONT OF THE OTHER CEMENT PAD picking-up spent hulls.  They broke the 180* Rule and exposed themselves to a discharge!  A dedicated RSO wouldn't have let THAT happen!  Calling a hot range COLD for a brief clean-up just forward of the cement pads would be the correct action to have taken.  I'm fortunate for many years of experience and training as a NRA Chief Range Safety Officer.  When I swung my double & saw fellow shooters I was surprised, pissed & both scared & thankful at the same time.  Thankful I didn't pull the trigger as I chased that clay!  Thankful it was ME on that cement pad!  It's a weird feelin' to almost point a shotgun at someone...  YES, I did YELL "Let us know BEFORE you clean-up out there!" and the three got the message (I don't know who they were---NO name-tags) , but it just goes to show you that when you make ASSUMPTIONS regarding the steady "routine" of the straight-away release of birds you can put yer ass in trouble.

Although it wasn't necessary at the time (since nothing really happened) to make a scene & stop everything for ALMOST pointing a scattergun at someone, it's a teachable moment we should all learn from.  An "assigned" RSO is a good way to make sure our stellar safety record is maintained!

Merry Christmas to ALL!

Rosey

 

These events are great and defiantly agree that we need assigned eyes on the range.  If I may make a suggestion for these events go one step further and have  identifiable "first aid" people and supplies. I normally have an "uh oh" bag and I have seen a few others with supplies as well. In addition I would say have a pick up near by for the overseer. I am not certified as a RSO however I am certified in BLS, with various certs in trauma.  I know I am still very much the new guy here and would like to do my part to make these events safe.

On a side note is there anything in the rules against open flames? If not I can bring a fire pit  for additional warmth.

Thoughts?

 

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1 minute ago, Coop556 said:

These events are great and defiantly agree that we need assigned eyes on the range.  If I may make a suggestion for these events go one step further and have  identifiable "first aid" people and supplies. I normally have an "uh oh" bag and I have seen a few others with supplies as well. In addition I would say have a pick up near by for the overseer. I am not certified as a RSO however I am certified in BLS, with various certs in trauma.  I know I am still very much the new guy here and would like to do my part to make these events safe.

On a side note is there anything in the rules against open flames? If not I can bring a fire pit  for additional warmth.

Thoughts?

 

No fires or bbq

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16 hours ago, Maksim said:

yep... that's us freezing our butts off.

@Malice4you did you also take pictures this time around?

I did not take pictures yesterday, didn't even think about the camera until sometime after getting home, so it never even got prepped to go out, let alone come along.

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21 minutes ago, Coop556 said:

identifiable "first aid" people and supplies. I normally have an "uh oh" bag and I have seen a few others with supplies as well.

I bring a trauma kit to all the shotgun shoots I attend. More stuff in the kit than I know what to do with.

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1 hour ago, Zeke said:

Add.

I agree with @Smokin .50 . At any range everyone is an rso to a degree. Cease fire can be called by anyone, and correcting unsafe behavior as well.

Its a good reminder to keep one eye open when we are all bsing and not shooting. 

 

 

 

 

^^^100%!  Everyone is a RSO & a Cease Fire can be called by ANYONE!

 

Also, a coupla posts back you brought up:

1 hour ago, Zeke said:

Responsible/ liable? In charge... :crazy:

If the worst happened, every licensed hunter & every NRA certified individual would get mentioned on the official incident report taken at the time of the incident.  That's just SOP.  If tragedy struck, the lawyers would go after ALL of them, or at least the major players closest to the victim of the incident.  Then a battle Royale would ensue among the lawyers as percentages of blame would be assigned.  So much to the victim themselves, and "X" amount to those responsible parties "that should have known better but were too busy talking to correct the negligence". 

As a NRA CRSO I carry that burden of additional responsibility whenever I step foot on a range.  It's a cross I'm willing to bear for you & for ALL of us.  I do this to get more people shooting so our sport & the rights that go along with it don't die.

Thank you all for your support & recognizing that SAFETY comes FIRST!

God Bless & have a Merry Christmas!

Rosey

Image may contain: one or more people and outdoor

 

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how about next SGS, we have an informal pow wow amongst some of us to talk about this in person, and flesh out some ideas on how to keep and balance fun, safe, and informal?  maybe an hour to half an hour before "start" time?

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36 minutes ago, sota said:

how about next SGS, we have an informal pow wow amongst some of us to talk about this in person, and flesh out some ideas on how to keep and balance fun, safe, and informal?  maybe an hour to half an hour before "start" time?

^^^THIS is the ticket!  And anyone that is volunteering (especially those w/o any formal training) to oversee the firing line for THAT DAY (or as many of those folks as possible, based upon arrival times) should be there to learn thru osmosis, seeing "the lay of the land" & hearing from those bouncing the ideas off of each other.  In this manner we develop a "pool" of RSO's thereby lightening the load so no one person gets stuck being "The Watcher".  That also lets us teach those that want to be taught & encourages further participation.  A WIN-WIN all the way around :)  

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3 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

^^^THIS is the ticket!  And anyone that is volunteering (especially those w/o any formal training) to oversee the firing line for THAT DAY (or as many of those folks as possible, based upon arrival times) should be there to learn thru osmosis, seeing "the lay of the land" & hearing from those bouncing the ideas off of each other.  In this manner we develop a "pool" of RSO's thereby lightening the load so no one person gets stuck being "The Watcher".  That also lets us teach those that want to be taught & encourages further participation.  A WIN-WIN all the way around :)  

I’d be happy to volunteer and help out. I live less than 2miles from the WMA range and want to help make more of these

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For those interested in organizing and keeping things safe... instead of chatting in the frozen tundra for an hour before, why not get together for an hour or so at a Sbux in the area instead. =)  Will get some dates together.

In general, everyone who shows up is safe and experienced, finding the new folks is the number 1 priority to keep them welcome and safe.

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On 12/23/2018 at 9:45 PM, Maksim said:

For those interested in organizing and keeping things safe... instead of chatting in the frozen tundra for an hour before, why not get together for an hour or so at a Sbux in the area instead. =)  Will get some dates together.

In general, everyone who shows up is safe and experienced, finding the new folks is the number 1 priority to keep them welcome and safe.

Why not do it in chat? Pick a date, time, etc.

 

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