So Serious Question.. Normal Cap Mags to NJ...

[vladtepes 1,060]

If someone in NJ was hypothetically fed up... 
If this person requested someone in America give them a standard cap mag.. 
Could the gifter of said mag be charged with anything?

IF the "mag ban" is a possession thing.. and someone in America sends a crate of 30 round AR mags to NJ.. is that even illegal?

[JohnnyB 4,323]

I would say that other than a company in the business of selling mags. Since a standard cap mag is not a gun nor a regulated item, both of your scenarios would be legal for the giver and neither would be legal for the possessor who is responsible for knowing and abiding by NJ state law.

Just my opinion.

[PK90 3,570]

I didn't do it. 

[JohnnyB 4,323]

2 minutes ago, PK90 said:

I didn't do it. 

Paul,

As a dealer, it's your responsibility to know the law in every state you do business with. No?

[PK90 3,570]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Paul,

As a dealer, it's your responsibility to know the law in every state you do business with. No?

I believe that I am only required to follow the laws of my state and the buyers state when selling firearms.

[vladtepes 1,060]

3 minutes ago, PK90 said:

I believe that I am only required to follow the laws of my state and the buyers state when selling firearms.

thats what I think as well.. if the law is simply a possession violation.. and it is legal where I am.. I can send all the standard cap mags to NJ I want? but I need to be sure this is accurate.. 

[PK90 3,570]

Just now, vladtepes said:

thats what I think as well.. if the law is simply a possession violation.. and it is legal where I am.. I can send all the standard cap mags to NJ I want? but I need to be sure this is accurate.. 

No criminal prosecution is likely, but CIVIL?

[Maksim 1,504]

So itneresting topic and I think we need to make the distinction of whether they are being sent to NJ or a NJ resident is picking them up outside of NJ.

I.e.  you can go to Walmart in PA and buy BB guns and ammo.... BUT Walmart is not going to ship it to NJ.

Same thing with mags... if I am an FFL in PA and you come over and buy 200 standard capacity 30 round mags, 100 round drums or whatnot... what you do with them is your problem.  Legal and a non-controlled item in PA.  BUT as a dealer I would not send them to NJ.

I think we have to look at it the same way as fireworks... Was completely legal for a NJ resident to buy/acquire fireworks out of state... it is merely illegal to possess in NJ, once your cross the border. 

[Zeke 5,504]

16 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

I would say that other than a company in the business of selling mags. Since a standard cap mag is not a gun nor a regulated item, both of your scenarios would be legal for the giver and neither would be legal for the possessor who is responsible for knowing and abiding by NJ state law.

Just my opinion.

I agree with your assessment 

[Maksim 1,504]

2 minutes ago, vladtepes said:

thats what I think as well.. if the law is simply a possession violation.. and it is legal where I am.. I can send all the standard cap mags to NJ I want? but I need to be sure this is accurate.. 

Sending or selling to NJ... i think the big caveat there too. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

1 minute ago, Maksim said:

So itneresting topic and I think we need to make the distinction of whether they are being sent to NJ or a NJ resident is picking them up outside of NJ.

I.e.  you can go to Walmart in PA and buy BB guns and ammo.... BUT Walmart is not going to ship it to NJ.

Same thing with mags... if I am an FFL in PA and you come over and buy 200 standard capacity 30 round mags, 100 round drums or whatnot... what you do with them is your problem.  Legal and a non-controlled item in PA.  BUT as a dealer I would not send them to NJ.

I think we have to look at it the same way as fireworks... Was completely legal for a NJ resident to buy/acquire fireworks out of state... it is merely illegal to possess in NJ, once your cross the border. 

The scenario is a private citizen that can have legal ownership of 5 30 round P Mags in the US sends them to a NJ resident.. 

I understand bad idea.. NJ resident is breaking the law.. this is obviously hypothetical.. I just don't believe the US resident has broken any law.. 

[Zeke 5,504]

Isn’t this interstate and of the jurisdiction of the fed? Standard capacity mags are not federally illegal.

[Maksim 1,504]

2 minutes ago, vladtepes said:

The scenario is a private citizen that can have legal ownership of 5 30 round P Mags in the US sends them to a NJ resident.. 

I understand bad idea.. NJ resident is breaking the law.. this is obviously hypothetical.. I just don't believe the US resident has broken any law.. 

No, as long as he did not sell it?

I think we would have to look at case documents on people selling to California residents items that are not on the approved list?

[JohnnyB 4,323]

7 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Sending or selling to NJ... i think the big caveat there too. 

If I physically go to Cabela's or any LGS in any free state, they do not ask where I live or to show ID to prove I am a "Free Stater"!

[Maksim 1,504]

Just now, JohnnyB said:

If I physically go to Cabela's or any LGS in any free state, they do not ask where I live or to show ID to prove I am a Free Stater"!

Correct.  Although I will see, at a few gun shows here, I did see a few of the more conservative dealers did ask. 

[Kawi7 52]

32 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

I would say that other than a company in the business of selling mags. Since a standard cap mag is not a gun nor a regulated item, both of your scenarios would be legal for the giver and neither would be legal for the possessor who is responsible for knowing and abiding by NJ state law.

Just my opinion.

That’s my take on it also..

[PK90 3,570]

So vladtepes, are you supplying the NJ Militia for the future revolt on Trenton?

[vladtepes 1,060]

23 minutes ago, PK90 said:

So vladtepes, are you supplying the NJ Militia for the future revolt on Trenton?

purely just a hypothetical curiosity.. LOL

[MartyZ 692]

So who in trenton do you want to ship these mags to?

[SJG 253]

2C:5-2 Conspiracy.

2C:5-2. Conspiracy. a. Definition of conspiracy. A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission he:

(1)Agrees with such other person or persons that they or one or more of them will engage in conduct which constitutes such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime; or

(2)Agrees to aid such other person or persons in the planning or commission of such crime or of an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime.

 

2C:1-3. Territorial applicability
2C:1-3. Territorial applicability.

a.Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person may be convicted under the law of this State of an offense committed by his own conduct or the conduct of another for which he is legally accountable if:

(1)Either the conduct which is an element of the offense or the result which is such an element occurs within this State;

(2)Conduct occurring outside the State is sufficient under the law of this State to constitute an attempt to commit a crime within the State;

(3)Conduct occurring outside the State is sufficient under the law of this State to constitute a conspiracy to commit an offense within the State and an overt act in furtherance of such conspiracy occurs within the State;

(4)Conduct occurring within the State establishes complicity in the commission of, or an attempt, or conspiracy to commit, an offense in another jurisdiction which also is an offense under the law of this State;

(5)The offense consists of the omission to perform a legal duty imposed by the law of this State with respect to domicile, residence or a relationship to a person, thing or transaction in the State; or

(6)The offense is based on a statute of this State which expressly prohibits conduct outside the State, when the conduct bears a reasonable relation to a legitimate interest of this State and the actor knows or should know that his conduct is likely to affect that interest.

b.Subsection a.(1) does not apply when either causing a specified result or a purpose to cause or danger of causing such a result is an element of an offense and the result occurs or is designed or likely to occur only in another jurisdiction where the conduct charged would not constitute an offense, unless a legislative purpose plainly appears to declare the conduct criminal regardless of the place of the result.

c.Except as provided in subsection g., subsection a. (1) does not apply when causing a particular result is an element of an offense and the result is caused by conduct occurring outside the State which would not constitute an offense if the result had occurred there, unless the actor purposely or knowingly caused the result within the State.

d.When the offense is homicide, either the death of the victim or the bodily impact causing death constitutes a "result," within the meaning of subsection a.(1) and if the body of a homicide victim is found within the State, it may be inferred that such result occurred within the State.

e.This State includes the land and water, including the waters set forth in N.J.S.40A:13-2 and the air space above such land and water with respect to which the State has legislative jurisdiction. It also includes any territory made subject to the criminal jurisdiction of this State by compacts between it and another state or between it and the Federal Government.

f.Notwithstanding that territorial jurisdiction may be found under this section, the court may dismiss, hold in abeyance for up to six months, or, with the permission of the defendant, place on the inactive list a criminal prosecution under the law of this State where it appears that such action is in the interests of justice because the defendant is being prosecuted for an offense based on the same conduct in another jurisdiction and this State's interest will be adequately served by a prosecution in the other jurisdiction.

g.When the result which is an element of an offense consists of inflicting a harm upon a resident of this State or depriving a resident of this State of a benefit, the result occurs within this State, even if the conduct occurs wholly outside this State and any property that was affected by the offense was located outside this State.

Standard cap mag is now contraband except possibly in hand of FFL in NJ. If you ship a standard mag to N.J. in theory, you have a problem.
 

[fishnut 2,358]

23 minutes ago, SJG said:

 

Standard cap mag is now contraband except possibly in hand of FFL in NJ. If you ship a standard mag to N.J. in theory, you have a problem.
 

Only if you get caught........

[PK90 3,570]

40 minutes ago, SJG said:

2C:5-2 Conspiracy.

NJ law. Can't touch this.

[Zeke 5,504]

31 minutes ago, fishnut said:

Only if you get caught........

That is with any law, or lie, or cheat.... or bad thingy

[father-of-three 243]

Even though some of the sellers near the New Jersey border will not sell to a New Jersey resident (Sarco comes to mind), the purchase can be made outside of this state.  What one does with the circumstantialy  illegal item after that is up to them.

[Sniper 6,372]

3 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

I would say that other than a company in the business of selling mags. Since a standard cap mag is not a gun nor a regulated item, both of your scenarios would be legal for the giver and neither would be legal for the possessor who is responsible for knowing and abiding by NJ state law.

That's the way I read it to. It's "possession" that is the key.

[45Doll 5,874]

3 hours ago, vladtepes said:

thats what I think as well.. if the law is simply a possession violation.. and it is legal where I am.. I can send all the standard cap mags to NJ I want? but I need to be sure this is accurate.. 

I have a hunch I know what you have in mind. 

If I'm right, you are really creative.

[vladtepes 1,060]

after looking at this many times... I am pretty sure the ONLY way they could TRY to charge someone that sent mags to a bunch of people in NJ is to try to convince their home state that they aided someone in another state with breaking the law.. but I am not sure that is even possible? 

if the mags are not illegal in ones home state.. 
if the sending mags is not illegal in ones home state.. 
if there is no federal rule against gifting mags to people in restrictive states.. or sending them in the mail.. 

you would be hard pressed to charge the sender.. 

[SJG 253]

Easier than you think with contraband, harder with non-contraband used for an illegal purpose. 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

What if you're in a helicopter flying over Pennsylvania with an AR15 and a 40 round Magpul magazine in it and you crash land in New Jersey by accident?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Just now, Ray Ray said:

What if you're in a helicopter flying over Pennsylvania with an AR15 and a 40 round Magpul magazine in it and you crash land in New Jersey by accident?

if you live you go to jail..