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Cory Marino

looking to buy my first rifle

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5 hours ago, shooter28 said:

i never said a .22 wasnt lethal- not sure where you are getting that from let alone saying im now ignorant and dangerous at the range. ive shot with a few guys here in classes and there never been an issue. i only said its boring for me. that doesnt make me a full retard at the range.

you learn to shoot the way you want to shoot. not everyone is the same. you want to use a 22 and irons? cool- go right ahead. if other people want to use a slightly bigger caliber and a red dot (since they have completely taken over the market)- cool. you want to talk about keeping it simple, putting a dot on a target is much simpler for a new guy than lining up multiple planes and keeping everything together. when my uncle (who competes,  is NRA instructor certified and been shooting since he was a kid) got me into shooting when I was young, he started me on a glock 17/19, and a colt hbar AR15 with an acog. worked just fine for me. 

and of course practice is the most important part. 9mm and .223 isnt that expensive. if you are blasting aways hundreds and hundreds of rounds at a range trip, you arent practicing anymore, regardless of if its .22lr or .9mm. you can practice just fine with moderate ammo counts. most intro and level 1 classes taught by some very well know instructors require at least a 9mm for handgun and .223 for rifle. good ones have ammo or time limits for their classes because they know after so many rounds or so much time, you arent learning any more.   

sorry, but that statement and others are yours are just flat out wrong. 

stay away from the internet, mall ninja wannabe classes and be less myopic. 

I will shoot, on any given occasion, with cops, swat guys, NJ transit rifle team members and a plethora of other guys that use their firearms for a living and not a single one would agree with what you said and guess what, hundreds go downrange

 

 

On a side note, my sons learned to shoot on bb guns down in the basement.  They have shot 1ooos of those suckers.  Once I felt comfortable with basics for them, we moved on to 22s.  It's about making it fun and competitive.  I feel confident in saying that they've probably got conservatively 5k or so 22lr downrange and my youngest just turned 9.  Iron sights only and I'll wager them against half the board, not kidding because they learned the right way with a caliber that allowed them to learn TRIGGER, AIM, WINDAGE, DISTANCE ETC and that can only be done with a cheap caliber.  They can disassemble and clean etc etc.  Now the move up is easier as the principles are the same.  I recently put together a beater AR for them to learn on. 

5k 22lr is 150

5k .223 is 1500 on the low end

5k of 9mm is about 900-1k

no contest on price and certainly no contest learning the fundamentals of shooting.  And anyone that equate shooting a 22lr to a bb gun simply hasn't a clue on fundamentals of shooting or science of accurate shooting.  It's an absurd stupid and ignorant comment made by guys that probably shoot less than the boys scouts.

carry one gents

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9 minutes ago, myhatinthering said:

sorry, but that statement and others are yours are just flat out wrong. 

stay away from the internet, mall ninja wannabe classes and be less myopic

I will shoot, on any given occasion, with cops, swat guys, NJ transit rifle team members and a plethora of other guys that use their firearms for a living and not a single one would agree with what you said and guess what, hundreds go downrange

lol ok. 

if you consider that ammo expensive, thats on you. everyone finances are different. OP was looking at some pretty expensive guns so I dont think this ammo will be a burden on him. 

i do stay away from the tacticool websites and instructors. the instructors I have taken classes with are far from "mall ninjas" so its pretty myopic that you would assume they are because they have thoughts that are different than yours. you can go ahead and shoot all freaking day but there is a point of diminishing returns that you cannot deny. your concentration, focus, trigger manipulation, etc all starts to diminish after a certain amount and you arent learning any more. 

 

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Just now, shooter28 said:

lol ok. 

if you consider that ammo expensive, thats on you. everyone finances are different. OP was looking at some pretty expensive guns so I dont think this ammo will be a burden on him. 

i do stay away from the tacticool websites and instructors. the instructors I have taken classes with are far from "mall ninjas" so its pretty myopic that you would assume they are because they have thoughts that are different than yours. you can go ahead and shoot all freaking day but there is a point of diminishing returns that you cannot deny. your concentration, focus, trigger manipulation, etc all starts to diminish after a certain amount and you arent learning any more. 

 

lol ok?  what are you 12?  And slow down sport, my finances are pretttttty good given I was a bond trader for most of my career and my stock of ammo is higher than many store levels.  We're not talking about me, we're talking about the masses that want to learn to shoot effectively and with the right instruction.  Since you got some coin, shoot with me for one year and let's see if you can spend that much coin without feeling it cause most don't.  I mean, I probably go through more barrels than you do cases of 5.56 given what I'm seeing here.

OP hasn't a clue, you should recognize that and that's why he's asking which is a good thing. 

as for your MONUMENTALLY STUPID comment on diminishing returns, you really need to educate yourself.  EACH SEAL team shoots more rounds downrange than the entire Marine Corp in a given year.  It's not about diminishing returns but about familiarity, excellence in technique, and muscle memory. Muscle memory, if you paid attention in school, diminishes rapidly unless exercised.  Why do SWAT snipers, competitive shooters, etc etc and the like practice as much as they do?  Dude, you are fking really ignorant here.

you can have the last word, I've got a wrestling meet to go to and then ironically enough, I'm taking the boys to shoot indoors tonight

have fun everyone

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21 minutes ago, shooter28 said:

lol ok. 

if you consider that ammo expensive, thats on you. everyone finances are different. OP was looking at some pretty expensive guns so I dont think this ammo will be a burden on him. 

Gosh dude, you are so smart and awesome, we all bow before you and humbly recognize your superiority.   Can you go be awesome somewhere else now.  you are desperately needed there.

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Actually IMO it doesn't make much difference what you learn to shoot on.

A 22 has a lot going for for a newbie.  Low recoil, low cost (both guns and ammo), and removes any problems from recoil.  It let's you concentrate on trigger control, sight picture and other things.  Also if you decide that you really don't like shooting that much you're not out a lot.

On the other hand, millions of cops and those in the military attain, at least as a minimum, shooting skill without ever shooting a 22.  I learned how to shoot a rifle using a M14 in basic training.  I learned how to shoot a pistol with a 1911.

25 years ago or so there were a few LE agencies that experimented with teaching new recruits with 22s first before going on to service pistols.  They found no benefit to it.

One of the things I always did teaching new recruits is the "Barney Fife Drill". I would have them load with one round and fire. It didn't matter how much experience they said they had. If they dropped the gun or break the 180 (I've seen both) better they do so with an empty gun.

I still do this with introducing newer shooters when introducing them to more powerful calibers like 357 and 44 mag.

Having said all that I usually start new shooters out with a 22.  The first time I took my grandson shooting he said he wanted to try a 9mm.  I started him with a 22.  After watching me demonstrate shooting a 9 he declined and went back to a 22.  Things have changed since then but don't force anyone to shoot something they don't want to.

JMO.  I've only been a firearms instructor for over 45 years and still don't know everything.

 

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1 hour ago, myhatinthering said:

lol ok?  what are you 12?  And slow down sport, my finances are pretttttty good given I was a bond trader for most of my career and my stock of ammo is higher than many store levels.  We're not talking about me, we're talking about the masses that want to learn to shoot effectively and with the right instruction.  Since you got some coin, shoot with me for one year and let's see if you can spend that much coin without feeling it cause most don't.  I mean, I probably go through more barrels than you do cases of 5.56 given what I'm seeing here.

OP hasn't a clue, you should recognize that and that's why he's asking which is a good thing. 

as for your MONUMENTALLY STUPID comment on diminishing returns, you really need to educate yourself.  EACH SEAL team shoots more rounds downrange than the entire Marine Corp in a given year.  It's not about diminishing returns but about familiarity, excellence in technique, and muscle memory. Muscle memory, if you paid attention in school, diminishes rapidly unless exercised.  Why do SWAT snipers, competitive shooters, etc etc and the like practice as much as they do?  Dude, you are fking really ignorant here.

you can have the last word, I've got a wrestling meet to go to and then ironically enough, I'm taking the boys to shoot indoors tonight

have fun everyone

Lets break this down. First, my apologies for suggesting anything about your finances. All I meant was that relative costs are going to be different for everyone. Sounds like you have an awesome stock of ammo. In no way am I trying to compete with you. I dont have the room or the money to keep that much ammo on hand. I don't have as much time either to spend shooting as you either. Not trying to compete against you in any of those respects. I realize the OP is new but I assumed (.maybe incorrectly) he had googled and seen the cost of those guns and concluded ammo costs wouldn't be much of a factor.  

Second. My point about dimishing returns applies to regular shooters, not top tier navy seals who literally shoot for a living. At some level it even applies to them tho. Seals and SF guys work up to high round counts and long hours shooting and spend year round training to maintain that level. Regular people dont. Most regular guys go to the range for an hour or so, a few times a month. Their capacity to sustain performance levels is much lower. Every class I have been to, I can see it with my own eyes. Some people are their best right at the beginning or shortly into it after they have warmed up to a certain drill. By the end of the day, you can see everyones groups opening up, making some mental mistakes when it comes to clearing malfunctions, etc. Continuing to shoot at that point, frustrations grow and performance drops even more.  

Ultimately it comes down to how people practice that works best for them. I disagree with the notion that you need to spend hours upon hours on the line shooting to get better.  Yea you gotta put in the time,  but practicing in shorter intervals, I think ( along with many others) is more conducive because it allows you to focus more on what you are doing. With shorter intervals, you shoot less ammo, thus costs become less of a concern. Each instructor I've had,  they all preach going to the range, with limited ammo and working on few specific things.  That case of 9mm or 223 suddenly lasts a lot longer.  I get there are some people who shoot a ton, ammo costs become a big concern but when you figure the average gun guy here shoots only a few times a month (if that) for an hour or so, I dont see ammo costs being the major factor between buying a 22lr and a 9mm or 223.

Anyway, enjoy the wrestling match and shooting with your kids. 

Be safe

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On 12/30/2018 at 2:57 AM, Cory Marino said:

no budget in particular, something for to save up for. ive always wanted a scar and the scar 20s looks beautiful but is it good for a beginner? id also love to have something semi auto in 458 socom. im relatively new to guns. what are my options? should i go with a plain old ar15? if so id like something with alot of options for custimization. thanks!

Cory,

 

The Scar is not cheap. Buy the AR15 and several thousand rounds of ammo, and go shoot with it. Then get the scar and or get a 458 socom upper for it later. You'll be happy you did.

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On 1/2/2019 at 12:02 AM, Cory Marino said:

 I seen a daniel defense m4 that i liked for just under 2 grand, i dont mind spending that much on it since i know DD makes top quality rifles.

$2k for an AR? Does that include a nice optic? For less than half that you can build a very nice rifle the way you want it and have money left over for a nice handgun.  Prob enough for 22 rifle as well.

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On 12/30/2018 at 2:57 AM, Cory Marino said:

no budget in particular, something for to save up for. ive always wanted a scar and the scar 20s looks beautiful but is it good for a beginner? id also love to have something semi auto in 458 socom. im relatively new to guns. what are my options? should i go with a plain old ar15? if so id like something with alot of options for custimization. thanks!

@GramGun79 scar, explain? And also for sale?

thanks in advance for helping new people 

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Do you have your fid card? 

As for Hunting in NJ you won't be using a 458 socom for anything. Not legal. The only rifle hunting allowed in NJ is groundhogs and coyote/fox. And with those you are limited in caliber /bullet weight.  

Get a 22. They are fun, cheap to shoot, not much recoil. 

Get a pump shotgun. 

Join a range. 

Learn those guns.  

If still interested. Then get an AR and learn that gun. 

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On 1/4/2019 at 8:34 PM, Zeke said:

@GramGun79 scar, explain? And also for sale?

thanks in advance for helping new people 

Sorry for the delay...just seeing this. SCAR is nice but buy it when shelling over the money doesn't hurt...is it worth the money they are going for now? NO...I think you can buy a lot more variety of rifles to learn on vs a single $3500 SCAR. I would start with @DaddyNick suggestion but if you feel you need a little more go with the AR 15, AR 10, or AK and work your way up to the scar and other higher ends rifles and calibers.  Ohh and my SCAR is no longer for sale @Zeke im holding off for @Mrs.Zeke its hers when she's put away enough of your money :) 

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Honestly, I really wanted a SCAR. The FN 17S just looks badass. But that price tag is killer for me. Plus for that price tag, I could get a S&W M&P10 in .308, a Sig P320 in .45 for the wife, a S&W M&P9 for myself, and still have $1,300 for ammo.

I'm definitely glad I started with .22s. The recoil is nothing and I can buy 5,000 rounds of high quality .22lr for $300 whereas you are paying 5X the price for good 9mm or decent .223.

But if you just want to have a shiny toy that's fun AF and money is no issue, screw it. get the SCAR!

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On 1/4/2019 at 4:49 PM, GRIZ said:

Actually IMO it doesn't make much difference what you learn to shoot on.

A 22 has a lot going for for a newbie.  Low recoil, low cost (both guns and ammo), and removes any problems from recoil.  It let's you concentrate on trigger control, sight picture and other things.  Also if you decide that you really don't like shooting that much you're not out a lot.

On the other hand, millions of cops and those in the military attain, at least as a minimum, shooting skill without ever shooting a 22.  I learned how to shoot a rifle using a M14 in basic training.  I learned how to shoot a pistol with a 1911.

25 years ago or so there were a few LE agencies that experimented with teaching new recruits with 22s first before going on to service pistols.  They found no benefit to it.

One of the things I always did teaching new recruits is the "Barney Fife Drill". I would have them load with one round and fire. It didn't matter how much experience they said they had. If they dropped the gun or break the 180 (I've seen both) better they do so with an empty gun.

I still do this with introducing newer shooters when introducing them to more powerful calibers like 357 and 44 mag.

Having said all that I usually start new shooters out with a 22.  The first time I took my grandson shooting he said he wanted to try a 9mm.  I started him with a 22.  After watching me demonstrate shooting a 9 he declined and went back to a 22.  Things have changed since then but don't force anyone to shoot something they don't want to.

JMO.  I've only been a firearms instructor for over 45 years and still don't know everything.

 

Lot of truth here but its different learning to shoot on Uncle Sam's dime than on your own for most people. And as I've gotten to know you, you also learned to shoot when Marksmanship mattered and a lot of those former le were former military which is simply not the case today so there are some fundamental differences. But great post!

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1 hour ago, myhatinthering said:

Lot of truth here but its different learning to shoot on Uncle Sam's dime than on your own for most people. And as I've gotten to know you, you also learned to shoot when Marksmanship mattered and a lot of those former le were former military which is simply not the case today so there are some fundamental differences. But great post!

You said the magic words there "Uncle Sam's dime".

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