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Cost of living comparison: NJ vs. Other States

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NJ is consistently one of the worst states for living and doing business. Every year it gets worse and with the new tax laws going into effect for this year the exodus out of this state will only increase. I’ve seen posts on this board where people gave an example of what they’re paying in other states. So I figured why not start a thread dedicated to the cost of living comparison between us here in NJ and other states. If you have moved out of state, have family or friends that moved out, or are looking to move and have done some research, please post here. Would be very informative to get some insight into the cost of property taxes, car insurance, health insurance, etc, in other states. 

Now since this is a 2A forum I know some will say to stay and fight here to try and improve things. Well for people like me, I’m looking to relocate based on cost of living and my business, not because of gun laws. Yes I feel strongly about 2A and would love to have more freedoms associated with it, but guns are not a top reason why I want to leave. Between my home and business property my family is paying over 23K a year in taxes. That’s a number that will only get worse in the coming years. That’s why my family is planning to leave. 

With that said, post up what information you have. 

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I'll be VERY interested in following this thread! Like you, I realized a couple of years ago that it would be smart for my long-term financial health if my time in NJ was kept limited.  

My issue is, I just don't want to move too far away from my current circle of family/friends, so I've been slowly exploring areas just over the Delaware River --- Bucks and more recently, Northampton and Lehigh counties too. I check real estate ads, take occasional Sunday drives to explore new towns, etc. I guess everyone's situation is different... but for me, aside from my mortgage, 3 of my largest bills are health insurance, property tax, and car insurance (in that order).  

Health Insurance: As a freelancer, I buy on the marketplace. It is exorbitant. I mean, crazy!... and I only have a sliver level plan (not gold or platinum). But merely moving 20 minutes west, similar plan/same level would be 200/mo less - saving 2400 per year.

Property Tax: I pay around 7K for a 3 bedroom Victorian on a "postage stamp" lot in Hunterdon County. In those PA counties, I could do a couple of things: 1) buy a similar set-up and cut my property tax by half or more, putting the savings in the bank, or 2) pay a similar amount of prop tax but gain a rental unit (possibly even 2) and enjoy the income stream(s). (The rents are pretty decent in those areas btw). Either way, the cost of the move would be paid off fairly quickly and then I'd be reaping rewards every year thereafter.

Car Insurance: the difference doesn't appear to be huge, but I would still save 300-400 every year.  

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It's one thing to retire to a nice cheap place, your rather insulated to the issues that come with the economy and jobs. 

Yes Maine is pretty nice, actually very nice... along with NH.. After looking into the places that I would like to live, they either don't have a job market for myself and wife, there is little job security in a recession, or the jobs pay significantly less negating the cost of living difference. 

If you run a business, you also have to factor in that services  are inflated in NJ, thus you will most likely pull in less money for the same level of work...

The other issue is that most products do not cost any less based on location.

So what is cost of living? what actually changes from state to state? It's primarily just taxes and insurance... will any differences off set those costs?

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Mrs. Peel as for car insurance in Pa. I kept my same company(State Farm) and my insurance was cut almost 50% compared to NJ.

Pa has a flat income tax of 3.07%

Sales tax is 6%

Gas is more expensive compared to NJ

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19 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

So what is cost of living? what actually changes from state to state? It's primarily just taxes and insurance... will any differences off set those costs?

Also State regulations and laws, local zoning laws, state licensing if your business requires a professional license, etc, etc.

With that said, depending on your business would you have the same customer base in a new area than you currently have in NJ?   Unless you have an online business of some sort moving your business to a new location would be much like starting over from scratch.  Who would your competition be in your new location.  What do they charge compared to what you are currently charging?  Keep in mind if you own a service type business you won't be able to charge as much in more rural areas than you would in NJ.  Granted, lower operating costs (rent, paying employees,etc) may cost less as well but will it be enough of a difference to offset having to charge less?

A great deal to think about and look into before making such a move.

 

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A good indicator of the cost of living is the locality pay given Federal employees.  This is added on to the General Schedule Payscale and based on where you work not where you live.  Locality pay ranges from about 15% for most of the country to about 32% for NJ (higher than Alaska).  The highest is approximately 39% in the San Francisco area.

https://www.federalpay.org/gs/locality

People talk about moving to New Hampshire, Maine, South Carolina, and other places but most of us have to also be concerned about getting a job.  Places where real estate and taxes are lower generally pay less as has already been pointed out.

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1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

So what is cost of living? what actually changes from state to state? It's primarily just taxes and insurance... will any differences off set those costs?

It’s also the purchase cost of the house, leading to savings for a home mortgage and interest.  I found that central joisey home prices are greatly inflated for what you get compared to many other states. 

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27 minutes ago, SW9racer said:

It’s also the purchase cost of the house, leading to savings for a home mortgage and interest.  I found that central joisey home prices are greatly inflated for what you get compared to many other states. 

Anything in the NYC commuter area will be. Bergen county, passiac and South to atlantic.. 

Luckily me and wife only commute 30 mins to work from Sussex where our money buys 3x the house + property. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

A good indicator of the cost of living is the locality pay given Federal employees.  This is added on to the General Schedule Payscale and based on where you work not where you live.  Locality pay ranges from about 15% for most of the country to about 32% for NJ (higher than Alaska).  The highest is approximately 39% in the San Francisco area.

https://www.federalpay.org/gs/locality

People talk about moving to New Hampshire, Maine, South Carolina, and other places but most of us have to also be concerned about getting a job.  Places where real estate and taxes are lower generally pay less as has already been pointed out.

I'm more concerned with how much I get to keep at the end of the month than with how much I earn. But then again I'm staying put until retirement.

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2 hours ago, carl_g said:

Mrs. Peel as for car insurance in Pa. I kept my same company(State Farm) and my insurance was cut almost 50% compared to NJ.

Pa has a flat income tax of 3.07%

Sales tax is 6%

Gas is more expensive compared to NJ

So that is interesting...

We moved out to Northampton County, aka Easton, PA (area).

Our auto insurance actually went up $10 with Geico... no accidents, clean records.

What is cheaper?  

Property taxes!   We live on almost 2 acres and a 2600 sf... our property taxes are high for PA but about half of what they would be in NJ... about $8k per year.

Groceries:  At grocery stores most things are a few cents cheaper... where you can really save however is by going 5 mins down the road and buying directly at the farm... generally more natural, fresh and really cheap.  We live "in the country" so about 5 farms we regularly visit... and this year we will be much more self sufficient as our acres turn into a garden

Insurance:  most is cheaper here than in NJ, such as homeowners.... about $700 per year.  Auto is about the same, medical should be a tad less.

Gas:... is about $.15 to $.20 more expensive per gallon and why we generally fill up in Phillipsburg although there are exceptions and parts of Allentown are about jersey prices.

Income Tax:  Pa is a win for retirees with no personal state income tax (consult your tax professional, not tax advice).

Overall, it is not even about the cost of living but what I would say quality of life... even though we are still 10 mins from Jersey... it is far less "yuppie" (and if you are in Central Jersey you know exactly what I mean).  People are generally nicer, more laid back, friendlier.

Tons of outdoors stuff to do and you just generally are glad to be there.  Wish we moved out years ago.

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1 hour ago, SW9racer said:

It’s also the purchase cost of the house, leading to savings for a home mortgage and interest.  I found that central joisey home prices are greatly inflated for what you get compared to many other states. 

That's definitely a big piece of it.

Years ago, we moved from Monmouth County (Freehold) down to Virginia, outside of Richmond. We bought a bigger, new, custom built 5 bedroom house for half the price of our old house. Plus, property taxes were 1/4 what they were in NJ. Since mortgage/taxes make up your largest bill in the month, that's substantial.

I remember car insurance was also less than NJ. Everything else (like groceries and other daily stuff) were comparable in costs to NJ.

The other big thing we noticed was the way of life. People were so much nicer, didn't stab you in the back every chance they got, things moved a little bit slower. It was a great place to raise the kids. That's also an important piece of the puzzle that needs to be considered.

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1 hour ago, SW9racer said:

It’s also the purchase cost of the house, leading to savings for a home mortgage and interest.  I found that central joisey home prices are greatly inflated for what you get compared to many other states. 

While prices in some places are almost jersey or higher, ie nice parts of north Florida, Miami,  northern Virginia, taxes are generally lower. 

Easton area in parts is fairly high, like Nazareth,  Forks, etc... if you go about 10 mins in either direction to rural areas you save a ton.

we bought ours for $300k.  Same house 10 mins closer to rt 78 is about $150k more.   In jersey we would not be able to get the same land and house for under $700k in central jersey. 

If you are not tied into having to be near NYC or PHL or the jersey shore,  there is a world of opportunities out there. 

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Up here in northern New Hampshire car insurance and homeowners insurance and 50% cheaper and car insurance is not required. 

My property tax on 2.75 acres in NJ with a 1900sf house was $12k per year. My new house is 1800sf with only 1acre but my property tax is $2100 per year and that includes free preschool at age 3. My taxes also include 2 dump permits, I have to bring my garbage there but dont have to pay to dispose of it. 

Groceries are about the same as NJ. 

Today gas was 2.07 

No sales tax and no state income tax in NH but there are a few hidden taxes such as hotel room tax and restaurant food tax. 

We do spend a little more on gas because we live out in the woods a bit the USPS does not home deliver so we have a PO box and I have to take the garbage to the dump. 

I was able to get a job immediately with the same pay as I was getting in NJ so all in all were super happy we moved up here and so is our savings. 

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3 hours ago, Maksim said:

So that is interesting...

We moved out to Northampton County, aka Easton, PA (area).

Our auto insurance actually went up $10 with Geico... no accidents, clean records.

What is cheaper?  

Property taxes!   We live on almost 2 acres and a 2600 sf... our property taxes are high for PA but about half of what they would be in NJ... about $8k per year.

Groceries:  At grocery stores most things are a few cents cheaper... where you can really save however is by going 5 mins down the road and buying directly at the farm... generally more natural, fresh and really cheap.  We live "in the country" so about 5 farms we regularly visit... and this year we will be much more self sufficient as our acres turn into a garden

Insurance:  most is cheaper here than in NJ, such as homeowners.... about $700 per year.  Auto is about the same, medical should be a tad less.

Gas:... is about $.15 to $.20 more expensive per gallon and why we generally fill up in Phillipsburg although there are exceptions and parts of Allentown are about jersey prices.

Income Tax:  Pa is a win for retirees with no personal state income tax (consult your tax professional, not tax advice).

Overall, it is not even about the cost of living but what I would say quality of life... even though we are still 10 mins from Jersey... it is far less "yuppie" (and if you are in Central Jersey you know exactly what I mean).  People are generally nicer, more laid back, friendlier.

Tons of outdoors stuff to do and you just generally are glad to be there.  Wish we moved out years ago.

Maks,

Not sure what to tell ya but when we moved 4 years ago about a 50% reduction in car ins. using State Farm from NJ to PA. We moved from Short Hills to Doylestown. I would never move back for so many reasons. 

 

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5 minutes ago, carl_g said:

Maks,

Not sure what to tell ya but when we moved 4 years ago about a 50% reduction in car ins. using State Farm from NJ to PA. We moved from Short Hills to Doylestown. I would never move back for so many reasons. 

 

Interesting, ages? Wondering if perhaps we are still young for them or because we are in rural area and chances for deer accidents a lot higher? 

Love the Doylestown area and it was the last place we looked before moving up here. 

Our favorite place was Washington’s crossing but over the last few years the prices really skyrocketed there and what we wanted was basically jersey prices. 

Then started going up to doylestown, perkasie, upper black Eddie but then you are kind of in no mans land where you are now an hour from Princeton and have to backtrack either way to go back... (wife was still working in Princeton, and my dad is still in the area) at the same time it was even further to north jersey and NYC where other family lives.

so started looking in Lehigh Valley and there is so much “win” here. 

Close to both Rt 78, 80 and 22.  Almost anything you need is avail locally including busses to NYC and Newark. 

At the same time we are 20 mins to Stroudsburg and within 30 mins can be skiing at all 3 area places, Camelback, Shawnee and Blue. 

The only downside we found so far is the lack of train service either to NYC or PHL. 

 

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We're paying almost $19K a year in property tax on a 3 bedroom house sitting on a little over an acre (half of which is unusable wooded hillside).

When my parents still had the farm in Idaho, they were paying about $2K in property taxes...that for 140 acres with three houses on the property, right outside of town.   And with better schools.   

So yeah, NJ sucks.

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1 hour ago, 10X said:

We're paying almost $19K a year in property tax

 

1 hour ago, 10X said:

So yeah, NJ sucks.

I think there will be a TON of people saying that come tax time this year, when they find out that can only deduct the maximum amount of $10K on their taxes, and that's before any state income tax. There will be a whole bunch of people sending IN a check with their tax return, versus expecting a refund.

Just watch the mass exodus after April.....

 

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7 hours ago, GRIZ said:

People talk about moving to New Hampshire, Maine, South Carolina, and other places but most of us have to also be concerned about getting a job.  Places where real estate and taxes are lower generally pay less as has already been pointed out.

That is a big thing... I got lucky that I got the job offer first.

I made my original post because I was actually on my way back from there. Maine is just an awesome state. I went up Saturday, stayed in Bangor, and drove up to Houlton the last two days (Sunday and Monday). Up to Bangor, you got a lot of Democrat/Liberal leanings, and more population (not NJ population density, but people are there). Going north of Bangor, that is where it is truely beautiful. There is a mountain off to the west of I-95 (Mount Katahdin) that is actually unreal to look at. Can look off and just see trees for as far as the eye can see.

75 mile an hour speed limit on I-95, and you haul ass up there... about an hour and a half drive. Absolutely no traffic. You’ll pass a car every so often, maybe a tractor trailer, but watching out for wildlife is more pressing than some moron texting down the highway. Saw two moose calves, and some nice sized deer. There can be traffic down by Portland and Bangor, but it takes crossing into Massachusetts for me to start getting pissed at other drivers. Maine, most of the drivers drive like me... pass someone, move over.

When I got up there, I drove around to better familiarize myself with Houlton. It definitely isn’t Howell, but just a lot nicer group of people. Go to a restaurant or a Dunkin’ Donuts, and people actually are happy to interact with you. Here, maybe I just get people having bad days... but if most could just throw the drink at you, I’m sure they would. Plus, you can buy guns and booze at Walmart. I’m not a big drinker, but hey... America! Constitutional Carry is nice, as well. I was debating about buying an A5 for $350 at Cabela’s (have $175 in gift cards), but didn’t want to deal with a shotgun laying in my trunk the entire trip (if you go up there, have some good stuff but mostly overpriced; had a rack of Swiss rifles and Mosin Nagants). Would have been a nice one to make a Clyde reproduction, but I’ll consider that again later on.

The real estate isn’t that bad. I saw a house on a few acres, definitely an $750,000+ property in NJ, for $350,000. Heard that it has been sitting for some time, being it is priced way too high. See others in the $250,000 range that are likely $500,000ish in NJ, which I’m sort of looking towards. But there are sub-$100,000 properties up there... decent land, ok house, which with 20% down, I’m looking at mortgage/taxes/insurance under $750 a month. Yes, not considering other utilities... but you can’t touch that in NJ. Slightly outside of Houlton, save a little more than within... but neither are in NJ realm.

L/E wise, you have all levels in Houlton. Local PD, Sheriff, State Police Barracks, and then CBP/BP Stations. People I talked to up there, which was limited in the two days I was up there, don’t really worry about crime. I’m not one to leave doors open, nor not have a security system installed, but it made my girlfriend more comfortable with thinking about moving up there (has a 6 year old daughter). I’m still a little unsure about that aspect, but I got a few months to see where it goes. That being said, I know which house I would buy if it was just me going up, and could easily afford it by myself.

Biggest thing... snow. My two weeks prior to FLETC is in April, so should be somewhat safe for a front-wheel drive car... but was told either all-wheel or four-wheel drive. Will be squared away by September, when I go up permanently. We left like 4:00PM yesterday, which it does start getting darker earlier than NJ, and they had a good amount of snow coming. Bangor had a dusting on vehicles, but by the time I got on the road (9:00AMish), I-95 was clear.

If you do go up there... be aware of concrete dividers (like triangular curb patches) at almost all entrances/exits. I don’t know why, but I almost went the wrong way through a half dozen of them. Think it has to do with such wide “lanes,” which NJ would mean two-way traffic.

Work wise, I actually got lucky from talking with people up there. Still a little short staffed, but not as bad as it was last year... so overtime is out there (not to mention 25% bonus for three years just going out there). Not a super busy Station, so I’ll be able to learn all of the different roles... which is better than doing one thing at a busier Station. Supposedly, people from that area are more sought after due to that... which I like options. Plus, if I get bored, I can do a short time (think they said 90ish days) at a busier Station.

Maine might have some questionable future with Democrats getting in, but going to take a lot of work to role back a lot of their rights... and at a certain point, do Democrats really want to piss off that much of the population to turn it over within an election cycle or two (less likely if Trump appoints another Justice)? My girlfriend wanted to drive by Stephen King’s house, and her daughter asked about a sign in a local bookstore, which said to vote for Pennywise... obviously the 6 year old didn’t know about it, but explained it to my girlfriend. King might be a hell of a writer, but I completely disagree with his political views.

Not trying to swing people to move to Maine, because if you don’t have a job lined up, it doesn’t seem easy to find one. But if one comes along, I wouldn’t hesitate to go up there. I actually can’t wait to go up again. Was joking with my girlfriend, but the first day I was up at Houlton, came back to the hotel in Bangor, and told her that was home. She laughed over it, but I really do feel like that.

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We have friends who live up near Manchester, NH, and used to be in Portsmouth.  I really like Portsmouth and it is right there next to Kittery in Maine.

While I do agree it is gorgeous there, even more so than here in PA/Poconos,  going there in the fall/winter is rather depressing... (unless you are a skibum).

The worst of it was a few years ago we were there for Labor Day IIRC, so this was about a week earlier... the leaves have already started to fall and were red.... yup... in August. 

Hey @lunker how are you liking it up there?

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4 hours ago, Screwball said:

That is a big thing... I got lucky that I got the job offer first.

I made my original post because I was actually on my way back from there. Maine is just an awesome state. I went up Saturday, stayed in Bangor, and drove up to Houlton the last two days (Sunday and Monday). Up to Bangor, you got a lot of Democrat/Liberal leanings, and more population (not NJ population density, but people are there). Going north of Bangor, that is where it is truely beautiful. There is a mountain off to the west of I-95 (Mount Katahdin) that is actually unreal to look at. Can look off and just see trees for as far as the eye can see.

75 mile an hour speed limit on I-95, and you haul ass up there... about an hour and a half drive. Absolutely no traffic. You’ll pass a car every so often, maybe a tractor trailer, but watching out for wildlife is more pressing than some moron texting down the highway. Saw two moose calves, and some nice sized deer. There can be traffic down by Portland and Bangor, but it takes crossing into Massachusetts for me to start getting pissed at other drivers. Maine, most of the drivers drive like me... pass someone, move over.

When I got up there, I drove around to better familiarize myself with Houlton. It definitely isn’t Howell, but just a lot nicer group of people. Go to a restaurant or a Dunkin’ Donuts, and people actually are happy to interact with you. Here, maybe I just get people having bad days... but if most could just throw the drink at you, I’m sure they would. Plus, you can buy guns and booze at Walmart. I’m not a big drinker, but hey... America! Constitutional Carry is nice, as well. I was debating about buying an A5 for $350 at Cabela’s (have $175 in gift cards), but didn’t want to deal with a shotgun laying in my trunk the entire trip (if you go up there, have some good stuff but mostly overpriced; had a rack of Swiss rifles and Mosin Nagants). Would have been a nice one to make a Clyde reproduction, but I’ll consider that again later on.

The real estate isn’t that bad. I saw a house on a few acres, definitely an $750,000+ property in NJ, for $350,000. Heard that it has been sitting for some time, being it is priced way too high. See others in the $250,000 range that are likely $500,000ish in NJ, which I’m sort of looking towards. But there are sub-$100,000 properties up there... decent land, ok house, which with 20% down, I’m looking at mortgage/taxes/insurance under $750 a month. Yes, not considering other utilities... but you can’t touch that in NJ. Slightly outside of Houlton, save a little more than within... but neither are in NJ realm.

L/E wise, you have all levels in Houlton. Local PD, Sheriff, State Police Barracks, and then CBP/BP Stations. People I talked to up there, which was limited in the two days I was up there, don’t really worry about crime. I’m not one to leave doors open, nor not have a security system installed, but it made my girlfriend more comfortable with thinking about moving up there (has a 6 year old daughter). I’m still a little unsure about that aspect, but I got a few months to see where it goes. That being said, I know which house I would buy if it was just me going up, and could easily afford it by myself.

Biggest thing... snow. My two weeks prior to FLETC is in April, so should be somewhat safe for a front-wheel drive car... but was told either all-wheel or four-wheel drive. Will be squared away by September, when I go up permanently. We left like 4:00PM yesterday, which it does start getting darker earlier than NJ, and they had a good amount of snow coming. Bangor had a dusting on vehicles, but by the time I got on the road (9:00AMish), I-95 was clear.

If you do go up there... be aware of concrete dividers (like triangular curb patches) at almost all entrances/exits. I don’t know why, but I almost went the wrong way through a half dozen of them. Think it has to do with such wide “lanes,” which NJ would mean two-way traffic.

Work wise, I actually got lucky from talking with people up there. Still a little short staffed, but not as bad as it was last year... so overtime is out there (not to mention 25% bonus for three years just going out there). Not a super busy Station, so I’ll be able to learn all of the different roles... which is better than doing one thing at a busier Station. Supposedly, people from that area are more sought after due to that... which I like options. Plus, if I get bored, I can do a short time (think they said 90ish days) at a busier Station.

Maine might have some questionable future with Democrats getting in, but going to take a lot of work to role back a lot of their rights... and at a certain point, do Democrats really want to piss off that much of the population to turn it over within an election cycle or two (less likely if Trump appoints another Justice)? My girlfriend wanted to drive by Stephen King’s house, and her daughter asked about a sign in a local bookstore, which said to vote for Pennywise... obviously the 6 year old didn’t know about it, but explained it to my girlfriend. King might be a hell of a writer, but I completely disagree with his political views.

Not trying to swing people to move to Maine, because if you don’t have a job lined up, it doesn’t seem easy to find one. But if one comes along, I wouldn’t hesitate to go up there. I actually can’t wait to go up again. Was joking with my girlfriend, but the first day I was up at Houlton, came back to the hotel in Bangor, and told her that was home. She laughed over it, but I really do feel like that.

Wife and I spent a week in Island Falls in 2016 and 2017; including time in/around Houlton...Aroostook county Maine is flat-out gorgeous. 

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24 minutes ago, W2MC said:

Wife and I spent a week in Island Falls in 2016 and 2017; including time in/around Houlton...Aroostook county Maine is flat-out gorgeous. 

Wifey taught a crochet retreat in Searsport, ME... found it gorgeous.  We did also spend either the 4th or Labor day in Cornish, ME and while it was quaint... was a little too out there.  I can certainly understand the inspiration for King's novels. lol.

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My wife spent a lot of time in the Boothbay/Wiscasset area when she was younger. 

All of Maine is beautiful, but 'a little too out there' ... which is why she and I shifted out focus to the pocono mt area.

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11 minutes ago, W2MC said:

My wife spent a lot of time in the Boothbay/Wiscasset area when she was younger. 

All of Maine is beautiful, but 'a little too out there' ... which is why she and I shifted out focus to the pocono mt area.

For us... that is the appeal... we are in a development that is surrounded by farms and wineries... Franklin Hills Vineyards are walking distance.. (1 mile).  Yet... when we need civilization... it is just 15 to 20 mins away in any direction... ok ok... North, West, South or South East.

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Maine is nice but you only have 2 seasons there.  Winter and July.  Water temperatures along the coast make NJ beaches seem like Key West.

I'd rather deal with heat. As long as you have shade and enough to drink the heat will not kill you.  You can only put on so many clothes and still be cold.

All depends on what you want.

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36 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Maine is nice but you only have 2 seasons there.  Winter and July.  Water temperatures along the coast make NJ beaches seem like Key West.

I'd rather deal with heat. As long as you have shade and enough to drink the heat will not kill you.  You can only put on so many clothes and still be cold.

All depends on what you want.

Aren't there parts where the jetstream flows through that the water is actually fairly warm?  I am thinking Hyanis Mass, Marthas Vineyard.... but isn't NH/ME also supposed to get it?

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5 hours ago, Maksim said:

Aren't there parts where the jetstream flows through that the water is actually fairly warm?  I am thinking Hyanis Mass, Marthas Vineyard.... but isn't NH/ME also supposed to get it?

Not sure about that.  Gulf Stream starts to head off shore about SC.  Ive been on boats and had swim calls off the coast of NC in February with water temperatures of 72 degrees. Maine is lucky if it gets in the high 60s. NJ will get in the mid 70s although I've seen it get into the 80s at times.  I lived in Key West for a bit and the water gets to the high 80s during the summer.  You actually start sweating of you're in the water exerting yourself.  Many Conchs in the Keys won't go in the water when it gets below 80.  That's why you're so thirsty after an hour or so of snorkeling in the Caribbean or the Keys.

The "winter and July" line is how my BIL and his wife describe Vermont.  They moved there in the 80s and stayed.  They're retiring now and headed for FL.

Maine also has areas just about as remote as I lived in AZ.  You had to drive 150 miles to go to a real supermarket.

It all depends on what you like.  The novelty of living in a remote area often wears off after some time.  A lot of times its the little things.  You want a pizza, Chinese food, or go out for Wendy's.  Some times it doesn't.

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I looked at a few homes in ME around the fryberg area right on the border of NH. Home prices were very good, I could have gotten a 2000sf house with 10 acres for the 250k price range. the schools suck in that area except for the fryberg academy but that's only highschool. Most of my co workers who live over there homeschool their kids till they can go to the fryberg academy. 

Were thinking of buying a property in ME in the next few years and eventually build on it but use it now for recreation. 

@MaksimThere is plenty to do up here for non "ski bums" but yes it does all involve being outdoors in the cold. Hiking, snowshoeing, snowmobiling, fat tire bikes, hunting and ice fishing just to name a few. 

@GRIZ I'm the the exact opposite I'd rather be in the cold and have to add extra layers and be active to keep warm. When its 100° and 95% humidity the only thing that will cool you down is AC. 

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I hope to move back to Pennsylvania as soon as possible, even with 4 more years of Wolf.  The second amendment is as big an issue as any other issue for me getting out of this state, 

Last May, when gas prices were higher, the price of gas in the Gettyburg area was the same as the prices I was used to in central New Jersey.  I know Pennsylvania gas is more, but I was surprised to see that.  Besides, somebody is going to have to pay for the 3 more years of Murphy's spending.

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