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Changing gun laws in Brazil aimed at fighting violent crim

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/brazil-has-an-idea-to-fix-rampant-gun-violence-more-guns-11546315200?mod=hp_lead_pos8

This is what we have been saying regarding crime and legal guns--and this is where America is headed if we deny citizen's rights to own and carry, otherwise only the criminals have guns:

"Brazil racked up nearly 64,000 homicides in 2017, the highest overall number in the world. Over 70% of those were committed with firearms, widely available to criminals on the black market. Here in São Paulo, a megalopolis of 12 million people, over a quarter of residents say they have been held up at gunpoint at some moment in their lives, according to a study this year by the city’s business school Insper.

“It’s not fair, we’ve become hostages in our own country,” said Mr. Sotero Júnior. “We can’t take it anymore.”

Now, Brazil is set to embark on an experiment that will determine what happens when you loosen gun restrictions in a country battling an overpowering wave of gun crime."

Interesting to see how this "experiment" works out in Brazil!

"President-elect Jair Bolsonaro, who takes office Tuesday, adopted a signature finger-gun salute during his campaign. The ex-army captain has promised a dramatic reversal of the country’s 15-year-old gun legislation to make it easier for citizens to obtain firearms.

“All the hoodlums already have guns, it’s only the good guys who don’t!” Mr. Bolsonaro said in a radio interview earlier this year. He said Saturday that he plans to issue a decree allowing all Brazilians without criminal records to own firearms.

Supporters of the measure say arming law-abiding citizens might cause Brazil’s criminals to think twice about carrying out a crime like a carjacking or home break-in."

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Will be great to see. 

While brazil is a very safe country generally, the big cities, sao Paolo and rio are exceptionally shady.  Parts of rio are great but once you go through the tunnel or up the mountain... danger everywhere from scammers to violence. 

Will be good to see and follow this. 

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12 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Will be great to see. 

While brazil is a very safe country generally, the big cities, sao Paolo and rio are exceptionally shady.  Parts of rio are great but once you go through the tunnel or up the mountain... danger everywhere from scammers to violence. 

Will be good to see and follow this. 

The statistics don't make it sound very safe, but I am sure they are skewed toward the high population cities.

The antis cite statistics on gun ownership vs. violent crime, but it sounds like common sense is waking people up to the fact that criminals have guns, citizens do not.

"Many civilians aren’t interested in gun statistics. Mr. Sotero Júnior, owner of the supplements store in São Paulo, said he would feel safer with one. In a country with more violent deaths than some war zones, he said he would rather be the man with a gun, than without.

“I never wanted a gun, I don’t like them,” he said. “If I lived in a civilized country I wouldn’t need one, but I live in Brazil.”

 

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3 minutes ago, leahcim said:

The statistics don't make it sound very safe, but I am sure they are skewed toward the high population cities.

The antis cite statistics on gun ownership vs. violent crime, but it sounds like common sense is waking people up to the fact that criminals have guns, citizens do not.

"Many civilians aren’t interested in gun statistics. Mr. Sotero Júnior, owner of the supplements store in São Paulo, said he would feel safer with one. In a country with more violent deaths than some war zones, he said he would rather be the man with a gun, than without.

“I never wanted a gun, I don’t like them,” he said. “If I lived in a civilized country I wouldn’t need one, but I live in Brazil.”

 

It is a completely different world in the drug and gang infested big cities and the extremely friendly cities like Paraty and Ponte Grossa. 

Was an amazing two weeks I spent in Brazil when we went there as a group. 

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Hungary with a 2nd amendment. Now Brazil

S Dakota and Oklahoma going constitutional? And maybe Florida also?

Despite what the msm and polls say. People realize bad hombres have guns. And if they do, so should you.

 

Brazil got a trump. It will be interesting to watch.

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And this Hope and Change from Europe:

A few highlights:

“It’s clear that illegal guns are used mostly by criminals,”  This seems axiomatic.

"Gun ownership is rising across Europe, a continent that until recently faced far less gun crime and violence than much of the globe. Not long ago it was rare to see armed British police.  The uptick was spurred in part by insecurity arising from terrorist attacks—many with firearms, and reflects government efforts to get illegal guns registered by offering amnesty to owners."

"Europe’s unregistered weapons outnumbered legal ones in 2017, 44.5 million to 34.2 million"

“Europe represents the largest market for arms trade on the dark web, generating revenues that are around five times higher than the U.S.,” 

"Armed robbery and similar crimes often entail illicit guns, while legally registered firearms tend to appear in suicide and domestic-violence statistics, said Nils Duquet of the Flemish Peace Institute, a Belgian research center."

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gun-use-surges-in-europe-where-firearms-are-rare-11546857000?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1

EUROPE Gun Use Surges in Europe, Where Firearms Are Rare Growing insecurity spurs more people to clear high bars for ownership When hundreds of women were sexually assaulted on New Year’s Eve in several German cities three years ago, Carolin Matthie decided it was time to defend herself. The 26-year-old Berlin student quickly applied for a gun permit, fearing many women would have the same idea and flood the application process. “If I don’t do it now, I will have to wait maybe another half year,” she recalls thinking. Gun ownership is rising across Europe, a continent that until recently faced far less gun crime and violence than much of the globe. Not long ago it was rare to see armed British police. The uptick was spurred in part by insecurity arising from terrorist attacks—many with firearms, and reflects government efforts to get illegal guns registered by offering amnesty to owners. Europe is still far from facing the gun prevalence and violence in Latin America or the U.S., which lead the world. World-wide civilian ownership of firearms rose 32% in the decade through 2017, to 857.3 million guns, according to the Small Arms Survey, a research project in Geneva. Europe accounts for less than 10% of the total. But Europe’s shift has been rapid, and notable in part because of strict national restrictions. In most European countries, gun permits require thorough background checks, monitored shooting practice and tests on regulations. In Belgium, France and Jan. 7, 2019 530 a.m. ET By Valentina Pop Germany, most registered guns may only be used at shooting ranges. Permits to bear arms outside of shooting ranges are extremely difficult to obtain. Strict registration requirements don’t account for—and may exacerbate—a surge in illegal weapons across the continent, experts say. Europe’s unregistered weapons outnumbered legal ones in 2017, 44.5 million to 34.2 million, according to the Small Arms Survey. Many illegal weapons come from one-time war zones, such as countries of the former Yugoslavia, and others are purchased online, including from vendors in the U.S. “Europe represents the largest market for arms trade on the dark web, generating revenues that are around five times higher than the U.S.,” concluded a recent Rand Corp. report. With more weapons comes more gun-related violence. National police statistics in France, Germany and Belgium show an uptick in gun law violations since 2015. Europe doesn’t have current contine She has since become a sports shooter, using live ammunition at shooting ranges, and is now applying for a firearm permit. She posts a daily video blog where she advocates armed selfdefense. In Belgium, firearm permits and membership in sport-shooting clubs has risen over the past three years. Belgian applications for shooting licenses almost doubled after the terrorist attacks by an Islamic State cell in Paris in Nov. 2015 and four months later in Brussels, offering “a clear indication of why people acquired them,” said Mr. Duquet. In Paris, the suicide bombers also used machine guns to mow down restaurant and nightclub patrons—weapons they acquired on the black market and were tracked to a shop in Slovakia. Belgium has for years tightened regulations in response to gun violence, such as a 2006 killing spree by an 18-year-old who legally acquired a rifle. “Before 2006, you could buy rifles simply by showing your ID,” recalled Sébastien de Thomaz, who owns two shooting ranges in Brussels and previously worked in a gun store. “They used to let me shoot with all my stepfather’s guns whenever I joined him at the range,” said Lionel Pennings, a Belgian artist who joins his stepfather at one of Mr. De Thomaz’s shooting ranges on Sundays. Mr. Pennings recalled that in the past he could easily fire a few rounds with his stepfather’s gun. “Now it’s much stricter,” he said. “You can only use the guns you have a permit for.” Visitors to a weapons expo near Paris in June examine German-made irearms. PHOTO: GERARD JULIENAFPGETTY IMAGES Copyright © 2019 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order presentation-ready copies for distribution to your colleagues, clients or customers visit https://www.djreprints.com. A Belgian would-be gun owner must pass almost a year of shooting and theory tests, plus psychological checks, said Mr. De Thomaz. The gun-range owner questions the impact of that policy. “With each terror attack, the legislation gets stricter,” he said. “For the black market, everything stays the same.”

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On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 4:59 PM, Zeke said:

Hungary with a 2nd amendment. Now Brazil

 

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 5:50 PM, runcibleman said:

Wait what?! Hungary did what?! Can I bring my rifle there now, once I get the State Department export license?

Unless Hungary did something I'm unaware of (entirely possible, lol)… I think Zeke might be referring to the Czech Republic who have passed an amendment in their lower legislature that is based on the US's own 2A - viewing gun ownership as a "right" - but last I heard, I believe it still has some hurdles before it's enshrined as law (basically squabbling with their EU overlords who are moving in the opposite direction towards more gun control). The Czech President wasn't initially so pro-gun, but insecurity stemming from various terrorist attacks in Europe changed his mind apparently. So, very similar motivations, it would seem, as listed in the WSJ article posted above by @leahcim

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3 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

 

Unless Hungary did something I'm unaware of (entirely possible, lol)… I think Zeke might be referring to the Czech Republic who have passed an amendment in their lower legislature that is based on the US's own 2A - viewing gun ownership as a "right" - but last I heard, I believe it still has some hurdles before it's enshrined as law (basically squabbling with their EU overlords who are moving in the opposite direction towards more gun control). The Czech President wasn't initially so pro-gun, but insecurity stemming from various terrorist attacks in Europe changed his mind apparently. So, very similar motivations, it would seem, as listed in the WSJ article posted above by @leahcim

Eh... one of those eastern block ...

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Before we start looking to countries like Brazil as a shining example, keep in mind that this is also happening:

“License to Kill Policing” Getting a Trial Run in Rio de Janeiro

https://www.bloombergquint(DOT)com/law-and-policy/license-to-kill-policing-to-get-a-trial-run-in-rio-de-janeiro?fbclid=IwAR0501K8QYM5Ngwm1W7UJ5g6eocWktDaXV4O-6c3CLL_U6QKkONS77OJtZg#gs.AblrtUM
 

(Bloomberg) -- Teams of marksmen next year will patrol swaths of Rio de Janeiro with high-powered weapons and a license to kill, said a security adviser to Governor-elect Wilson Witzel.

As many as 120 sharpshooters will accompany police incursions into the slums of Brazil’s postcard city to exterminate gun-toting criminals, according to Flavio Pacca, a longtime associate of Witzel who the governor-elect’s press office said will join the administration. The shooters will work in pairs -- one to pull the trigger, one to monitor conditions and videotape deaths.

License-to-Kill Policing to Get a Trial Run in Rio de Janeiro

“The protocol will be to immediately neutralize, slaughter anyone who has a rifle,” Witzel, a federal judge and former Brazilian marine, told reporters in Brasilia on Dec. 12. “Whoever has a rifle isn’t worried about other people’s lives, they’re ready to eliminate anyone who crosses their path. This is a grave problem, not just in Rio de Janeiro, but also in other states.”

Rio has long exemplified Brazil’s charm and its chaos, and what happens there echoes at home and abroad. Like President-elect Jair Bolsonaro, Witzel cruised to victory in October promising a brutal crackdown on criminals who make daily life a harrowing ordeal. Rio will be a proving ground for Bolsonaro’s philosophy of maximum force -- and whether law enforcement devolves into a storm of extrajudicial killings.

Witzel’s Eyes

Witzel declined Bloomberg’s interview requests and declined to comment on the sharpshooter plan Pacca described.

Rio’s homicides last year surged to an eight-year high of 5,346 and robberies and muggings have more than doubled since 2011. In February, President Michel Temer put the army in control of security through year-end and Witzel, as he takes over, intends to seek out the fight.

License-to-Kill Policing to Get a Trial Run in Rio de Janeiro

Witzel will create a security council that answers to him directly and envisions a web of surveillance and control. He plans public-private partnerships to purchase as many as 30,000 security cameras, according to his press office. This month, he traveled to Israel to visit Elbit Systems Ltd. and Israel Aerospace Industries Ltd., both of which work on drones. Pacca said the unmanned aircraft will gather facial images of drug traffickers holding weapons so police will have evidence to arrest a suspect when he emerges from his neighborhood.

Distant Death

Pacca, a police officer himself and a regular attendee at Witzel’s transition meetings, said groups of 20 policemen will begin undergoing month-long marksman training as soon as March. After they can kill at 600 meters, they will typically clear the way into favelas, where many residents liveunder the deadly sway of drug traffickers. Gangs often position roadblocks and lookouts to impede police and rival gangs.

Marksmen will alternate, with one shooting and one spotting targets and filming so as to prove a person deserved killing, Pacca said in Bloomberg’s Rio office. Society and jurists are shifting their views of what constitutes “imminent danger’’ that justifies lethal force, he said, and targets don’t need to be actively shooting.

License-to-Kill Policing to Get a Trial Run in Rio de Janeiro

“That concept is changing; it’s not for nothing that Bolsonaro was elected, not for nothing that Witzel was elected,’’ Pacca said. He pointed to a jewelry-store thief who this month used an octogenarian as a human shield during his escape. As he stumbled, officers shot him dead at point-blank range. “The people gave the police an ovation. That’s what you’re going to see.’’

Bolsonaro has said cops who kill should be given medals and has promised they will be legally protected. Days after the election, video showed Rio police loading the limp, bleeding bodies of two young men accused of drug trafficking into the bed of a pick-up. Bystanders cheered, with one yelling Bolsonaro’s name.

“The NGOs, human rights activists and United Nations will have a fit,” Alexandre Frota, a congressman-elect, said on Twitter while sharing the video. “But the cleansing must be done.’’

Crime pervades Rio: Stray bullets strike schoolchildren. Residents of means are averse to conspicuous consumption. Commuters alter routes to avoid danger and the price of car insurance spiked with the surge in carjacking.

License-to-Kill Policing to Get a Trial Run in Rio de Janeiro

Suelen Souza, 41, sells stuffed potatoes at the foot of the Dona Marta favela. This month, a police officer was shot in the neck in Dona Marta and frequent gun battles have caused the value of Souza’s apartment just below to fall by 40 percent. She said Witzel’s offensive may make it safe for her daughters to play in the plaza again.

“I prefer the criminals get slaughtered instead of the criminals slaughtering us,” she said.

Her husband, engineer Jose Olympio Souza, said, “a shock of morality showing the government has strength -- not indefinitely, but initially -- would be good.”

Death in the Rain

Even before Witzel, Rio police increasingly resorted to force. More people died at their hands during the first 11 months of 2018 than any year since state records begin in 2003. The 1,444 dead represent a 39 percent increase from 2017.

Not all are justified. On a rainy September day, a 26-year-old man awaited his wife and two children in their hillside favela that looks out over Copacabana beach. Police mistook his umbrella for a rifle and shot him, according to local press reports. He died en route to hospital, and photos in local media showed pages of his employment booklet ringed with blood.

“The Bolsonaro-Witzel duo is a concern for those who value democracy, value human rights, value the lives of people in the favelas.” said Julita Lemgruber, coordinator of the Center for Security and Citizenship Studies at the city’s Candido Mendes University.

Spokespeople for Bolsonaro didn’t return calls and messages Friday seeking comment.

Official Impunity

General Richard Nunes, Rio’s acting security secretary, said violence alone can’t solve the issues and that the military has strengthened institutions and recovered operational capacity with training plus new equipment. Since April, when the military intervention gained traction, muggings, homicides and armed robbery of stores declined as soldiers became a constant presence, Nunes said.

“If we don’t address public security with a broader vision, instead of thinking things get resolved by tactical, direct confrontation, the tendency is for indicators to worsen,” Nunes said. He called the jump in police killings this year “totally undesirable and unexpected.”

‘So Violent Now’

As long as police face few consequences for killing people, the cycle of violence will remain, according to Daniel Wilkinson, Americas managing director at Human Rights Watch.

License-to-Kill Policing to Get a Trial Run in Rio de Janeiro

“We’re very concerned 2019 will only deteriorate further,” Wilkinson said. “This isn’t naivete about the problem; this comes from understanding what a serious problem this is for members of communities where you have gangs, and for police officers who have a very difficult job.”

Celia da Silva, a single mother of four who sells bottled water at traffic lights, said traffickers walk around her favela brazenly shouldering rifles. Her daughter was mugged three weeks ago by four men in the neighborhood below.

“I hope for a new change, with it so violent now in this city and this country,” she said. “It’s not just the little corner where I live.”

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1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

Before we start looking to countries like Brazil as a shining example, keep in mind that this is also happening:

“License to Kill Policing” Getting a Trial Run in Rio de Janeiro

Well, I guess it shows that when violence gets bad enough, the level of desperation rises to meet it... and ordinary citizens will start embracing some pretty radical ideas. Your point is well-taken... certainly no talk of "due process"..."a jury of your peers" or any of the other things we take for granted here. 

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From the accounts in the original article, seems like some of these areas of Rio and other cities are already de facto war zones, but with less training and less discipline than a regular military war zone.

If some of these bad guys just start getting shot, maybe it will eventually help.

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27 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

certainly no talk of "due process"..."a jury of your peers" or any of the other things we take for granted here. 

Hmmm, some of that has already disappeared here. Remember the Kavanaugh hearings, you know, "Guilty until proven Innocent"? I wouldn't take that type of behavior for granted. Some of the Democrats could care less about the Constitution and the Rule of Law. Use that as a reminder.

 

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